Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2021 20:27:29 GMT
What about a bloke serving his time and given another chance? How many of the 7000 Gasheads have a criminal record? We will have to wait to see if his found guilty first and hear the evidence of what actually did occur. Quite a few Basel but none are the public face of Bristol Rovers and most are banned if they are convicted of an offence within a football ground. We will have to wait to see if those standards are upheld with the manager if found guilty. Wasn't a supporter banned for life by the club for being caught on club CCTV throwing some form of small missile / stone at Macclesfield supporters, no Police involvement from memory, the club just banned him?
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dinsdale
Andy Rammell
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 495
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Post by dinsdale on May 15, 2021 20:41:30 GMT
Fyi i used to be Probation Gas back in the day so thats my background it's a bit unusual, having someone who knows what they are talking about, on here Yes but only when i dont talk about football
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2021 20:56:52 GMT
We will have to wait to see if his found guilty first and hear the evidence of what actually did occur. Quite a few Basel but none are the public face of Bristol Rovers and most are banned if they are convicted of an offence within a football ground. We will have to wait to see if those standards are upheld with the manager if found guilty. Wasn't a supporter banned for life by the club for being caught on club CCTV throwing some form of small missile / stone at Macclesfield supporters, no Police involvement from memory, the club just banned him? No idea but Brian (Gasincider) was banned after being found innocent by Torquay magistrates for taking a penalty with an inflatable beach ball at half time at Plainmoor. His ban was overturned after the chairman was reminded that he was also spotted on the pitch at Brisbane Road on one occasion.
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Post by droitwichgas on May 15, 2021 21:51:53 GMT
Why are you certain it's only cat 3 abh rather than car 2, isn't that something only the judge can decide after they've heard all the evidence during the trial? Because i spent two decades being involved in sentencing and have the sentencing guidance manual. Categories 1 and 2 are very serious injuries where as this based on the injury disclosed by the alleged victim is a broken tooth as the result of a push. The higher categories refer to elements of planning and not an impulsive or reactive shove as described by the victim. As i say i was anxious as i remember the sentencing for those city players. We were all asked to do the court reports in my office but we were all gasheads so it got shunted around. They were looking at unpaid work but as it was affray i believe the judge threw the book at them. Ive read the guidance all the way through, there is no custody option Are you certain it was just a broken tooth, as the actual injuries sustained by Stendel have always been surrounded with a bit of mystery, and we all now know how good Barton is at spinning the news in his favour. What was Harvey referring to when he said he was "stunned" by the incident, as I doubt that two managers having a minor scuffle is that rare. The suggestions immediately after the incident were that Barton head butted Stendel and knocked out (loosened) his two front teeth leading to him requiring dental treatment, I wouldn't be surprised if that is also suggested when the trial gets underway.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on May 15, 2021 23:39:49 GMT
Pious and divisive twaddle, if you please. At last, a fair assessment :-) Gareth Taylor wouldn’t be a punt, he’s a proper up and coming manager. but we know by now to talk of one is silly, it’s about right management team, not manager.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on May 16, 2021 0:07:23 GMT
Why are you certain it's only cat 3 abh rather than car 2, isn't that something only the judge can decide after they've heard all the evidence during the trial? Because i spent two decades being involved in sentencing and have the sentencing guidance manual. Categories 1 and 2 are very serious injuries where as this based on the injury disclosed by the alleged victim is a broken tooth as the result of a push. The higher categories refer to elements of planning and not an impulsive or reactive shove as described by the victim. As i say i was anxious as i remember the sentencing for those city players. We were all asked to do the court reports in my office but we were all gasheads so it got shunted around. They were looking at unpaid work but as it was affray i believe the judge threw the book at them. Ive read the guidance all the way through, there is no custody option he was previously jailed for six months. I’ve listened carefully to your guidelines, what sort of late night town centre shuffle meant six months? Taking a weapon with him? Maybe it can’t be as simple as guidelines for a person head butting a persons teeth out, if these are leaders and role models and on duty at the time? manager on manager is a complete no no, can it be a greater magnitude to society than some drunk doing it in a taxi q? is there anything in guidelines which says celebrities will always get treated as though they are a ordinary member of public? Jury’s soft on celebs the judges can be harsh with the sentencing. Maybe in the judges mind time and again, too soft on celebrity here and the media is going to go ape s**t. anyway, apart from dragging our clubs reputation even lower, the court case is immaterial, if he did headbutt the teeth out then Barton is finished at Rovers with a lengthily FA EFL ban. BIG QUESTION IS are the board actively planning for life without him whilst remaining supportive publicly? Realistically they have to be seriously considering a new manager in a ban scenario don’t they?
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dinsdale
Andy Rammell
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 495
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Post by dinsdale on May 16, 2021 6:45:40 GMT
Because i spent two decades being involved in sentencing and have the sentencing guidance manual. Categories 1 and 2 are very serious injuries where as this based on the injury disclosed by the alleged victim is a broken tooth as the result of a push. The higher categories refer to elements of planning and not an impulsive or reactive shove as described by the victim. As i say i was anxious as i remember the sentencing for those city players. We were all asked to do the court reports in my office but we were all gasheads so it got shunted around. They were looking at unpaid work but as it was affray i believe the judge threw the book at them. Ive read the guidance all the way through, there is no custody option Are you certain it was just a broken tooth, as the actual injuries sustained by Stendel have always been surrounded with a bit of mystery, and we all now know how good Barton is at spinning the news in his favour. What was Harvey referring to when he said he was "stunned" by the incident, as I doubt that two managers having a minor scuffle is that rare. The suggestions immediately after the incident were that Barton head butted Stendel and knocked out (loosened) his two front teeth leading to him requiring dental treatment, I wouldn't be surprised if that is also suggested when the trial gets underway. Sadly there isnt a list in the guidance of what would constitute serious injury however i would assume it wiuod be more then teeth based on sentencing ive seen
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Post by baselswh on May 16, 2021 7:32:14 GMT
Because i spent two decades being involved in sentencing and have the sentencing guidance manual. Categories 1 and 2 are very serious injuries where as this based on the injury disclosed by the alleged victim is a broken tooth as the result of a push. The higher categories refer to elements of planning and not an impulsive or reactive shove as described by the victim. As i say i was anxious as i remember the sentencing for those city players. We were all asked to do the court reports in my office but we were all gasheads so it got shunted around. They were looking at unpaid work but as it was affray i believe the judge threw the book at them. Ive read the guidance all the way through, there is no custody option he was previously jailed for six months. I’ve listened carefully to your guidelines, what sort of late night town centre shuffle meant six months? Taking a weapon with him? Maybe it can’t be as simple as guidelines for a person head butting a persons teeth out, if these are leaders and role models and on duty at the time? manager on manager is a complete no no, can it be a greater magnitude to society than some drunk doing it in a taxi q? is there anything in guidelines which says celebrities will always get treated as though they are a ordinary member of public? Jury’s soft on celebs the judges can be harsh with the sentencing. Maybe in the judges mind time and again, too soft on celebrity here and the media is going to go ape s***. anyway, apart from dragging our clubs reputation even lower, the court case is immaterial, if he did headbutt the teeth out then Barton is finished at Rovers with a lengthily FA EFL ban. BIG QUESTION IS are the board actively planning for life without him whilst remaining supportive publicly? Realistically they have to be seriously considering a new manager in a ban scenario don’t they? No.
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Post by baselswh on May 16, 2021 7:38:33 GMT
Are you certain it was just a broken tooth, as the actual injuries sustained by Stendel have always been surrounded with a bit of mystery, and we all now know how good Barton is at spinning the news in his favour. What was Harvey referring to when he said he was "stunned" by the incident, as I doubt that two managers having a minor scuffle is that rare. The suggestions immediately after the incident were that Barton head butted Stendel and knocked out (loosened) his two front teeth leading to him requiring dental treatment, I wouldn't be surprised if that is also suggested when the trial gets underway. Sadly there isnt a list in the guidance of what would constitute serious injury however i would assume it wiuod be more then teeth based on sentencing ive seen In my experience as a amateur footballerof 18 years,occasionally there are arguments and a punch up.This happens in many groups of people.Not great,but usually not worthy of prison. I hope the chap that got hurt recovered physically and mentally quickly. Now,I want a couple of these early signings we were told about to arrive.Unless it's the same old Rovets,'something good is going to happen,not yet,but quite soon'.
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Post by holmesgas1 on May 16, 2021 7:53:06 GMT
At last, a fair assessment :-) Gareth Taylor wouldn’t be a punt, he’s a proper up and coming manager. but we know by now to talk of one is silly, it’s about right management team, not manager. Yes, would be interesting choice. Get another year or twos experience and gives him time to define his team, so he's well placed to replace JB after he is poached.
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Post by a more piratey game on May 16, 2021 7:57:25 GMT
Gareth Taylor wouldn’t be a punt, he’s a proper up and coming manager. but we know by now to talk of one is silly, it’s about right management team, not manager. Yes, would be interesting choice. Get another year or twos experience and gives him time to define his team, so he's well placed to replace JB after he is poached. Oh you tee'd me up nicely for that silly punchline!
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,502
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Post by eppinggas on May 16, 2021 9:00:15 GMT
Are you certain it was just a broken tooth, as the actual injuries sustained by Stendel have always been surrounded with a bit of mystery, and we all now know how good Barton is at spinning the news in his favour. What was Harvey referring to when he said he was "stunned" by the incident, as I doubt that two managers having a minor scuffle is that rare. The suggestions immediately after the incident were that Barton head butted Stendel and knocked out (loosened) his two front teeth leading to him requiring dental treatment, I wouldn't be surprised if that is also suggested when the trial gets underway. Sadly there isnt a list in the guidance of what would constitute serious injury however i would assume it wiuod be more then teeth based on sentencing ive seen Question for you dinsdale. If you are convinced it's 'only' a category 3 ABH, why would it go to Crown Court? Surely Magistrates Court deals with cases where a non-custodial sentence, or relatively short sentences are appropriate? Happy to bow to your far superior knowledge on the subject! If Mr Barton is found guilty, even with a non-custodial sentence, then the EFL will still have their verdict to give. I'll say it again. I have faith in the judiciary and (to a lesser extent) the EFL to deliver the correct verdicts - and take it from there. As PHE states, it's pretty incomprehensible that Bristol Rovers have willingly put themselves in this position.
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Post by droitwichgas on May 16, 2021 9:40:57 GMT
Because i spent two decades being involved in sentencing and have the sentencing guidance manual. Categories 1 and 2 are very serious injuries where as this based on the injury disclosed by the alleged victim is a broken tooth as the result of a push. The higher categories refer to elements of planning and not an impulsive or reactive shove as described by the victim. As i say i was anxious as i remember the sentencing for those city players. We were all asked to do the court reports in my office but we were all gasheads so it got shunted around. They were looking at unpaid work but as it was affray i believe the judge threw the book at them. Ive read the guidance all the way through, there is no custody option he was previously jailed for six months. I’ve listened carefully to your guidelines, what sort of late night town centre shuffle meant six months? Taking a weapon with him? Maybe it can’t be as simple as guidelines for a person head butting a persons teeth out, if these are leaders and role models and on duty at the time? manager on manager is a complete no no, can it be a greater magnitude to society than some drunk doing it in a taxi q? is there anything in guidelines which says celebrities will always get treated as though they are a ordinary member of public? Jury’s soft on celebs the judges can be harsh with the sentencing. Maybe in the judges mind time and again, too soft on celebrity here and the media is going to go ape s***. anyway, apart from dragging our clubs reputation even lower, the court case is immaterial, if he did headbutt the teeth out then Barton is finished at Rovers with a lengthily FA EFL ban. BIG QUESTION IS are the board actively planning for life without him whilst remaining supportive publicly? Realistically they have to be seriously considering a new manager in a ban scenario don’t they? An explanation on this link if you're bored on a Sunday "harm" & "culpability" seem to be both taken into consideration, it's interesting that that there is reference of a "headbutt" making the offence more culpable, as there was an allegation in the press after the incident that was how Stendel tooth was damaged, before it changed to him being pushed into a post. www.defence-barrister.co.uk/sentencing-guidelinesThe actual events surrounding the assault could be just as important as the verdict for Barton's future as a Rovers manager. I wonder if the club's lawyers considered any of the facts of the case before giving Barton such a lengthy contract?
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Post by holmesgas1 on May 16, 2021 9:53:56 GMT
Yes, would be interesting choice. Get another year or twos experience and gives him time to define his team, so he's well placed to replace JB after he is poached. Oh you tee'd me up nicely for that silly punchline! Sarcasm rules :-)
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towngas
Joined: February 2021
Posts: 566
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Post by towngas on May 16, 2021 11:04:27 GMT
Are you certain it was just a broken tooth, as the actual injuries sustained by Stendel have always been surrounded with a bit of mystery, and we all now know how good Barton is at spinning the news in his favour. What was Harvey referring to when he said he was "stunned" by the incident, as I doubt that two managers having a minor scuffle is that rare. The suggestions immediately after the incident were that Barton head butted Stendel and knocked out (loosened) his two front teeth leading to him requiring dental treatment, I wouldn't be surprised if that is also suggested when the trial gets underway. Sadly there isnt a list in the guidance of what would constitute serious injury however i would assume it wiuod be more then teeth based on sentencing ive seen Surely the Offences against The Persons Act specify each level of assault and the injury to warrant each level. So a shove is common assault, a punch with no injury battery, bruising and minor cuts ABH, broken bones and other serious injury is wounding or GBH, and a clear intention to inflict this takes the stakes up another level. Plus, I believe, the CPS always charge one lower than the outline case to encourage a guilty verdict, all other factors being taken into account. A broken tooth would perhaps warrant ABH, but would normally carry aCommon Assault charge, hardly custodial sentence territory. Barton’s position as a manager at the time should have no bearing on that, and why should it?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2021 12:14:37 GMT
he was previously jailed for six months. I’ve listened carefully to your guidelines, what sort of late night town centre shuffle meant six months? Taking a weapon with him? Maybe it can’t be as simple as guidelines for a person head butting a persons teeth out, if these are leaders and role models and on duty at the time? manager on manager is a complete no no, can it be a greater magnitude to society than some drunk doing it in a taxi q? is there anything in guidelines which says celebrities will always get treated as though they are a ordinary member of public? Jury’s soft on celebs the judges can be harsh with the sentencing. Maybe in the judges mind time and again, too soft on celebrity here and the media is going to go ape s***. anyway, apart from dragging our clubs reputation even lower, the court case is immaterial, if he did headbutt the teeth out then Barton is finished at Rovers with a lengthily FA EFL ban. BIG QUESTION IS are the board actively planning for life without him whilst remaining supportive publicly? Realistically they have to be seriously considering a new manager in a ban scenario don’t they? An explanation on this link if you're bored on a Sunday "harm" & "culpability" seem to be both taken into consideration, it's interesting that that there is reference of a "headbutt" making the offence more culpable, as there was an allegation in the press after the incident that was how Stendel tooth was damaged, before it changed to him being pushed into a post. The actual events surrounding the assault could be just as important as the verdict for Barton's future as a Rovers manager. I wonder if the club's lawyers considered any of the facts of the case before giving Barton such a lengthy contract? Do you honestly believe lawyers were consulted? I think we targeted one person for the job and all other interested persons were ignored. Contracts are quite straight forward with provision to add or delete clauses. They are then registered with the FA.
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Post by droitwichgas on May 16, 2021 12:27:52 GMT
An explanation on this link if you're bored on a Sunday "harm" & "culpability" seem to be both taken into consideration, it's interesting that that there is reference of a "headbutt" making the offence more culpable, as there was an allegation in the press after the incident that was how Stendel tooth was damaged, before it changed to him being pushed into a post. The actual events surrounding the assault could be just as important as the verdict for Barton's future as a Rovers manager. I wonder if the club's lawyers considered any of the facts of the case before giving Barton such a lengthy contract? Do you honestly believe lawyers were consulted? I think we targeted one person for the job and all other interested persons were ignored. Contracts are quite straight forward with provision to add or delete clauses. They are then registered with the FA. Probably not but you'd have thought it was common sense to get some legal advice before employing Barton, you can just see this summer being another disaster if we have to employ yet another manager this year.
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Post by a more piratey game on May 16, 2021 12:44:56 GMT
I think we targeted one person for the job and all other interested persons were ignored job description - 'sprinkle some stardust over a football club that has rarely seen any'
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,353
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Post by kingswood Polak on May 16, 2021 12:52:16 GMT
Fyi i used to be Probation Gas back in the day so thats my background it's a bit unusual, having someone who knows what they are talking about, on here Isn’t it just. A great shame LJG no longer is active here, unless dinsdale had that username ? Not accusing anyone of anything btw
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,353
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Post by kingswood Polak on May 16, 2021 12:58:36 GMT
We will have to wait to see if his found guilty first and hear the evidence of what actually did occur. Quite a few Basel but none are the public face of Bristol Rovers and most are banned if they are convicted of an offence within a football ground. We will have to wait to see if those standards are upheld with the manager if found guilty. Wasn't a supporter banned for life by the club for being caught on club CCTV throwing some form of small missile / stone at Macclesfield supporters, no Police involvement from memory, the club just banned him? For sure. Many others had life bans too, one for having an unopened can of beer on his person. Football laws are extreme and more in line with terrorist laws than common law. We lost some stalwarts support. This is fact
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