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Post by The Concept on May 8, 2021 10:32:59 GMT
Okay, so just to be clear, and going from the email you've shared: 1) You haven't been banned from the Supporters Club for life. - You can still be a member of the supporters club like anyone else. - Gasincider (the chap who was apparently - shall I say - 'vociferous' to the Rovers Board at an Open Forum) was only ever a member, just like the majority of others would be - he wasn't part of the committee of BRFC. 2) The Supporters Club have decided not to accept your application to become a Supporters Club Director. - Isn't that their right? - Are they not entitled to sift through any applications, and decide whether they are willing to support them, just like any job application for an interview? - I don't know, just asking.The supporters club director is appointed by a vote from all SC members. The FC then interview you and appoint you to the position of director. The FC also reserve the right to not appoint you. To be put forward you have to be nominated and then seconded by fellow members, which I was. The executive committee according to their own constitution cannot nominate certain individuals or not allow members to stand that have been nominated and seconded by their own members. That doesn’t make it a democratic process. In this instance, their own opinion is no more important than their standard rank and file member, according to John Malyckyj anyway. Thanks for explaining that. Look, I can sympathise and understand your frustrations, especially as you felt you can bring something to the role, and wanted to change things for the good for the team we all love and support. But you don't help your cause if you embellish the facts (initially saying banned from the SC), when at the same time saying others are lying.
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Post by The Concept on May 8, 2021 10:34:03 GMT
It was too small too read, unfortunately! Even zooming in, I could only make out a few words, here and there, and that includedf Gasincider's name. Maybe a silly question but did you click on the letter ? This opens it in another window. If so I’m guessing you are using a phone as it is easy to read on a tablet or computer Thanks KP. Yes, already sorted. See post from Angas above!
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on May 8, 2021 10:35:28 GMT
Maybe a silly question but did you click on the letter ? This opens it in another window. If so I’m guessing you are using a phone as it is easy to read on a tablet or computer Thanks KP. Yes, already sorted. See post from Angas above! I must learn to read thread before posting x 100 😂😝
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Post by a more piratey game on May 8, 2021 10:39:35 GMT
Thanks KP. Yes, already sorted. See post from Angas above! I must learn to read thread before posting x 100 😂😝 made me chuckle!
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2021 11:00:56 GMT
Please use the "Report" button if you feel strongly about what has been written and the mods will look into it. On the face of it some of the language used by ITB in this thread is at best inappropriate and very insensitive. He should have a long hard look at himself, and how he expresses himself in future. I don’t think I’m the only one at fault here but I do accept I didn’t do anything to defuse a situation. I won’t apologise for defending myself when someone is lying to convince themselves or others of events that happened completely differently to what actually played out. I won’t apologise when those lies incite others to attack me either. That’s dishonest and I won’t sit back and allow it to happen. I know I haven’t covered myself in glory when it came to GI over the years and as much as we were sworn enemies, I wouldn’t wish covid or death on anyone and that includes Brian. However I wasn’t the one who brought that subject back up and even now someone else is using it to try and score points against me and to incite others to join in attacking me. Going forward please pm me if you want to discuss anything. I’m happy to chat to anyone. Epping as a mod on the other side I know how hard it is when you have posters forthrightly and passionately stating their position or even squabbling. It’s not my desire to add to your hard work here so please accept my apologies and I’ll try and take things to PM going forward. 1. To be an effective Supporters' representative would need to be better skilled at handling this type of issue. 2. I think that the grounds the SC may have used for declining your nomination 'may' have been that, had you have been successful in the ballot they would have had to have gone through the process to install you as a member of their Executive Committee, they aren't obliged to accept anybody, so rather than going through the ballot and then declining to install you as an EC member, they have simply not accepted your nomination. Of course, I may well be wrong about this. Why not ping Jim an email and ask him what authority he has to reject your nomination?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2021 11:27:29 GMT
Please use the "Report" button if you feel strongly about what has been written and the mods will look into it. On the face of it some of the language used by ITB in this thread is at best inappropriate and very insensitive. He should have a long hard look at himself, and how he expresses himself in future. I don’t think I’m the only one at fault here but I do accept I didn’t do anything to defuse a situation. I won’t apologise for defending myself when someone is lying to convince themselves or others of events that happened completely differently to what actually played out. I won’t apologise when those lies incite others to attack me either. That’s dishonest and I won’t sit back and allow it to happen. I know I haven’t covered myself in glory when it came to GI over the years and as much as we were sworn enemies, I wouldn’t wish covid or death on anyone and that includes Brian. However I wasn’t the one who brought that subject back up and even now someone else is using it to try and score points against me and to incite others to join in attacking me. Going forward please pm me if you want to discuss anything. I’m happy to chat to anyone. Epping as a mod on the other side I know how hard it is when you have posters forthrightly and passionately stating their position or even squabbling. It’s not my desire to add to your hard work here so please accept my apologies and I’ll try and take things to PM going forward. As we are being honest and open with each other, can you confirm that Wael suggested that you stand for the position of Supporters Club Director? If this is true has he considered co- opting you to the board now that the Supporters Club has closed down this rout for you?
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Post by a more piratey game on May 8, 2021 11:28:47 GMT
I don’t think I’m the only one at fault here but I do accept I didn’t do anything to defuse a situation. I won’t apologise for defending myself when someone is lying to convince themselves or others of events that happened completely differently to what actually played out. I won’t apologise when those lies incite others to attack me either. That’s dishonest and I won’t sit back and allow it to happen. I know I haven’t covered myself in glory when it came to GI over the years and as much as we were sworn enemies, I wouldn’t wish covid or death on anyone and that includes Brian. However I wasn’t the one who brought that subject back up and even now someone else is using it to try and score points against me and to incite others to join in attacking me. Going forward please pm me if you want to discuss anything. I’m happy to chat to anyone. Epping as a mod on the other side I know how hard it is when you have posters forthrightly and passionately stating their position or even squabbling. It’s not my desire to add to your hard work here so please accept my apologies and I’ll try and take things to PM going forward. 1. To be an effective Supporters' representative would need to be better skilled at handling this type of issue. 2. I think that the grounds the SC may have used for declining your nomination 'may' have been that, had you have been successful in the ballot they would have had to have gone through the process to install you as a member of their Executive Committee, they aren't obliged to accept anybody, so rather than going through the ballot and then declining to install you as an EC member, they have simply not accepted your nomination. Of course, I may well be wrong about this. Why not ping Jim an email and ask him what authority he has to reject your nomination? So you think maybe that the Exec is not obliged to accept a member elected by the members? That would seem extraordinary. So extraordinary that it seems to me unlikely
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Post by a more piratey game on May 8, 2021 11:32:53 GMT
I don’t think I’m the only one at fault here but I do accept I didn’t do anything to defuse a situation. I won’t apologise for defending myself when someone is lying to convince themselves or others of events that happened completely differently to what actually played out. I won’t apologise when those lies incite others to attack me either. That’s dishonest and I won’t sit back and allow it to happen. I know I haven’t covered myself in glory when it came to GI over the years and as much as we were sworn enemies, I wouldn’t wish covid or death on anyone and that includes Brian. However I wasn’t the one who brought that subject back up and even now someone else is using it to try and score points against me and to incite others to join in attacking me. Going forward please pm me if you want to discuss anything. I’m happy to chat to anyone. Epping as a mod on the other side I know how hard it is when you have posters forthrightly and passionately stating their position or even squabbling. It’s not my desire to add to your hard work here so please accept my apologies and I’ll try and take things to PM going forward. As we are being honest and open with each other, can you confirm that Wael suggested that you stand for the position of Supporters Club Director? If this is true has he considered co- opting you to the board now that the Supporters Club has closed down this rout for you? The first bit sounds sensible As for the second bit, Wael can coopt anyone willing, but without SC election it can't be for the SC slots Is that how you see it?
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,206
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Post by eppinggas on May 8, 2021 11:40:48 GMT
Please use the "Report" button if you feel strongly about what has been written and the mods will look into it. On the face of it some of the language used by ITB in this thread is at best inappropriate and very insensitive. He should have a long hard look at himself, and how he expresses himself in future. I don’t think I’m the only one at fault here but I do accept I didn’t do anything to defuse a situation. I won’t apologise for defending myself when someone is lying to convince themselves or others of events that happened completely differently to what actually played out. I won’t apologise when those lies incite others to attack me either. That’s dishonest and I won’t sit back and allow it to happen. I know I haven’t covered myself in glory when it came to GI over the years and as much as we were sworn enemies, I wouldn’t wish covid or death on anyone and that includes Brian. However I wasn’t the one who brought that subject back up and even now someone else is using it to try and score points against me and to incite others to join in attacking me. Going forward please pm me if you want to discuss anything. I’m happy to chat to anyone. Epping as a mod on the other side I know how hard it is when you have posters forthrightly and passionately stating their position or even squabbling. It’s not my desire to add to your hard work here so please accept my apologies and I’ll try and take things to PM going forward. No problem at all ITB. I don't think we ever agree on much, but you are usually polite and I have no problem with you. I just thought that what you wrote in this thread was out of character and not up to your usual standards. Feel free to go back and edit it. Regards, Eppinggas.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2021 11:45:31 GMT
1. To be an effective Supporters' representative would need to be better skilled at handling this type of issue. 2. I think that the grounds the SC may have used for declining your nomination 'may' have been that, had you have been successful in the ballot they would have had to have gone through the process to install you as a member of their Executive Committee, they aren't obliged to accept anybody, so rather than going through the ballot and then declining to install you as an EC member, they have simply not accepted your nomination. Of course, I may well be wrong about this. Why not ping Jim an email and ask him what authority he has to reject your nomination? So you think maybe that the Exec is not obliged to accept a member elected by the members? That would seem extraordinary. So extraordinary that it seems to me unlikely I think that the person's position on the Executive Committee needs to be ratified by a vote at an executive Committee meeting. I agree, if this is correct then the process may need reviewing.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2021 12:04:47 GMT
As we are being honest and open with each other, can you confirm that Wael suggested that you stand for the position of Supporters Club Director? If this is true has he considered co- opting you to the board now that the Supporters Club has closed down this rout for you? The first bit sounds sensible As for the second bit, Wael can coopt anyone willing, but without SC election it can't be for the SC slots Is that how you see it? That's correct.
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Post by a more piratey game on May 8, 2021 12:25:02 GMT
So you think maybe that the Exec is not obliged to accept a member elected by the members? That would seem extraordinary. So extraordinary that it seems to me unlikely I think that the person's position on the Executive Committee needs to be ratified by a vote at an executive Committee meeting. I agree, if this is correct then the process may need reviewing. The current set-up, if as described, would though in theory allow for the SC members to elect a board rep for BRFC without that person sitting on the Exec of the SC So maybe a gap for ITB after all, if he has a membership list
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2021 12:42:30 GMT
I think that the person's position on the Executive Committee needs to be ratified by a vote at an executive Committee meeting. I agree, if this is correct then the process may need reviewing. The current set-up, if as described, would though in theory allow for the SC members to elect a board rep for BRFC without that person sitting on the Exec of the SC So maybe a gap for ITB after all, if he has a membership list The EC can co-opt any EC member to that position, yes. However, that person would need to be a serving EC member already, and the position on the EC needs to be ratified by a show of hands. I think that any SC member can join the EC. The only criteria that I'm aware of for being CoOpted into the position of Supporters' Director would be a certain period of SC and SS membership. Similarly, should the EC feel that a sitting Share Scheme director not be meeting the required standards for any reason, they could, via a vote, remove the person from the position. Once elected via the ballot the position of Director still needs to be formally ratified by the FC Board of Directors. But this should be a formality as there's a 'Candidates' Address' as part of the process, this takes place prior to the members vote and involves the candidates formally meeting representatives of the BoD, presumably at this point the FC would advise the EC of any concerns that would lead them to fail to accept an elected candidate onto the BoD. That's my understanding anyway. John?
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Post by irenestoyboy on May 8, 2021 13:08:09 GMT
I don’t think I’m the only one at fault here but I do accept I didn’t do anything to defuse a situation. I won’t apologise for defending myself when someone is lying to convince themselves or others of events that happened completely differently to what actually played out. I won’t apologise when those lies incite others to attack me either. That’s dishonest and I won’t sit back and allow it to happen. I know I haven’t covered myself in glory when it came to GI over the years and as much as we were sworn enemies, I wouldn’t wish covid or death on anyone and that includes Brian. However I wasn’t the one who brought that subject back up and even now someone else is using it to try and score points against me and to incite others to join in attacking me. Going forward please pm me if you want to discuss anything. I’m happy to chat to anyone. Epping as a mod on the other side I know how hard it is when you have posters forthrightly and passionately stating their position or even squabbling. It’s not my desire to add to your hard work here so please accept my apologies and I’ll try and take things to PM going forward. As we are being honest and open with each other, can you confirm that Wael suggested that you stand for the position of Supporters Club Director? If this is true has he considered co- opting you to the board now that the Supporters Club has closed down this rout for you? Wael did not ask me personally to stand as a SC director nominee. I decided to do that after KM resigned. You would have to ask Wael personally if he plans to place a fan on the board directly but I’ve never had any conversations with anyone about me ever joining.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2021 13:29:22 GMT
As we are being honest and open with each other, can you confirm that Wael suggested that you stand for the position of Supporters Club Director? If this is true has he considered co- opting you to the board now that the Supporters Club has closed down this rout for you? Wael did not ask me personally to stand as a SC director nominee. I decided to do that after KM resigned. You would have to ask Wael personally if he plans to place a fan on the board directly but I’ve never had any conversations with anyone about me ever joining. Now this is getting confusing. Maybe I misunderstood but I thought that the SC were advised that Ken was being removed from his position on the FC BoD?
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Post by irenestoyboy on May 8, 2021 15:04:58 GMT
Wael did not ask me personally to stand as a SC director nominee. I decided to do that after KM resigned. You would have to ask Wael personally if he plans to place a fan on the board directly but I’ve never had any conversations with anyone about me ever joining. Now this is getting confusing. Maybe I misunderstood but I thought that the SC were advised that Ken was being removed from his position on the FC BoD? If he was, what has that got to do with me? Even if Wael did want someone in particular, there is no guaranteee he would get through the nominated and seconder process and actually win the support of the SC, so it would be a pointless exercise him even tipping someone off to do it. There are no guarantees of success of that one person. If Wael nominated someone himself with the sole purpose of liasing with the SC, the SC have got to want to liase with that person in return as they are an independent organistion and given the statements and actions of the EC in the recent past, it seems that there is no indication they want to. That's why any conspiracy that Wael wanted a specific person to do it really is a nonsense. Its outside of his control.
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Post by a more piratey game on May 8, 2021 15:09:24 GMT
Now this is getting confusing. Maybe I misunderstood but I thought that the SC were advised that Ken was being removed from his position on the FC BoD? If he was, what has that got to do with me? Even if Wael did want someone in particular, there is no guaranteee he would get through the nominated and seconder process and actually win the support of the SC, so it would be a pointless exercise him even tipping someone off to do it. There are no guarantees of success of that one person. If Wael nominated someone himself with the sole purpose of liasing with the SC, the SC have got to want to liase with that person in return as they are an independent organistion and given the statements and actions of the EC in the recent past, it seems that there is no indication they want to. That's why any conspiracy that Wael wanted a specific person to do it really is a nonsense. Its outside of his control. do you fancy canvassing the membership outside the purlieu of the Exec ITB?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2021 15:30:15 GMT
Now this is getting confusing. Maybe I misunderstood but I thought that the SC were advised that Ken was being removed from his position on the FC BoD? If he was, what has that got to do with me? Even if Wael did want someone in particular, there is no guaranteee he would get through the nominated and seconder process and actually win the support of the SC, so it would be a pointless exercise him even tipping someone off to do it. There are no guarantees of success of that one person. If Wael nominated someone himself with the sole purpose of liasing with the SC, the SC have got to want to liase with that person in return as they are an independent organistion and given the statements and actions of the EC in the recent past, it seems that there is no indication they want to. That's why any conspiracy that Wael wanted a specific person to do it really is a nonsense. Its outside of his control. Hang on just a second, you are answering questions that haven't been asked here. I didn't even come close to suggesting that what happened with Masters was anything to do with you, all I did was ask for clarification about whether he resigned or whether the SC were advised that he was no longer welcome at Board meetings. I think you need to go back and check who asked whether Wael spoke with you about standing, it wasn't me. This is part of the reason that I'm saying that even if you were to stand that you may have to work on your communication skills. Shouldn't think for one second that you need my advice, but why not check how many votes Ken and Brian got in the last ballot, see how many people are prepared to pledge their support to you, if it looks as if you have popular support then you may have the basis of a conversation that you can have with Jim.
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Post by irenestoyboy on May 8, 2021 16:57:01 GMT
Sorry THD a couple of questions have been asked.
Wasn’t Ken banned from the exec boxes and then after that happened he resigned? I think that’s how it played out.
Re your other comments:
Ken was elected unopposed the last time I believe but I don’t think there was any opposition.
JC made it clear that there I will never be considered a candidate again so even if I did have support from other members it’s vanity.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2021 17:18:00 GMT
Sorry THD a couple of questions have been asked. Wasn’t Ken banned from the exec boxes and then after that happened he resigned? I think that’s how it played out. Re your other comments: Ken was elected unopposed the last time I believe but I don’t think there was any opposition. JC made it clear that there I will never be considered a candidate again so even if I did have support from other members it’s vanity. Ken being excluded from the West Stand wouldn't have prevented him from fulfilling his duties as supporters' representative, unless it was a blanket ban from that area of the ground and meetings were held there, in which case he could have simply put the onus on the FC to explain why meetings had taken place in his absence. It sounds to me as if there was maybe more to that than we are being told. Ref Jim, the point is that if you can demonstrate that you have a large body of support, similar to the volume of support that Masters or Brian were elected with, you may need to do some research as SS membership will now be lower, so it only needs to be a similar % of those eligible to vote, then Jim and his the EC have a dilemma as they are there to represent supporters, not their own opinions. Of course, their immediate reaction will be to put up their own candidate and throw everything they have behind that person, but nothing worth having is easy to achieve. Please don't be like Vaughan when he was talking about some kind of supporter funded scheme / investment but when challenged to do it made every excuse under the sun not to.
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