kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 18, 2020 12:53:31 GMT
My thinking is people will need a lot of convincing to watch football in a crowd of people unless somehow the virus is eradicated. Especially considering mostly older men go to football. I read an historical piece about the 2nd wave if the so called Spanish flu and it makes for a chilling read. I have been talking with people by phone and my view is that this will continue to take lives, until we have a viable vaccine. I believe the Drumpf is trying to bypass the FDA to expedite a vaccine. I have suffered some awful side effects from an approved medication so I would not be keen to take anything that has not been tested prior to it’s use
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Post by manchestergas on Apr 18, 2020 13:06:57 GMT
My thinking is people will need a lot of convincing to watch football in a crowd of people unless somehow the virus is eradicated. Especially considering mostly older men go to football. I read an historical piece about the 2nd wave if the so called Spanish flu and it makes for a chilling read. I have been talking with people by phone and my view is that this will continue to take lives, until we have a viable vaccine. I believe the Drumpf is trying to bypass the FDA to expedite a vaccine. I have suffered some awful side effects from an approved medication so I would not be keen to take anything that has not been tested prior to it’s use Watch this Kingswood Polak: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0blmn5l/the-flu-that-killed-50-millionMaybe Harry can blame the Americans for the ‘Spanish flu’. The second wave was the worst of the two. my great uncle dead of the Spanish Flu in Flanders after getting through the fighting. Ironically Trump’s grandad dead of it, but in his denial phase a month or so back didn’t know people could die of the flu!
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 18, 2020 14:24:51 GMT
I read an historical piece about the 2nd wave if the so called Spanish flu and it makes for a chilling read. I have been talking with people by phone and my view is that this will continue to take lives, until we have a viable vaccine. I believe the Drumpf is trying to bypass the FDA to expedite a vaccine. I have suffered some awful side effects from an approved medication so I would not be keen to take anything that has not been tested prior to it’s use Watch this Kingswood Polak: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0blmn5l/the-flu-that-killed-50-millionMaybe Harry can blame the Americans for the ‘Spanish flu’. The second wave was the worst of the two. my great uncle dead of the Spanish Flu in Flanders after getting through the fighting. Ironically Trump’s grandad dead of it, but in his denial phase a month or so back didn’t know people could die of the flu! Please, feel free to call me Jools or KP. Up until Wednesday I was unaware of this second wave but I’m blessed in that I have been very particular in who I have, on my friends on Facebook and many of them have given me some very educational content and advise. I can, easily say, that I love each of those I have in my friends list. If you use it and not let it use you the it can be very useful and, when I’ve been in hospital it has been a real godsend I am sorry to hear of your grandad as I had my own die from typhus after being wounded when fighting the red army, in 1920. RIP Robert Edward Pirog, my father was only 6 months old when he died so he never got to know him. My great grandfather was actually born on Ellis island and served in the 9th US cavalry. There were many rumours that Johan Pirog took the payroll for the entire unit and got to family in Poland & this is where the wealth came from Sorry for going off topic but Typhus also killed a great many people.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Apr 18, 2020 17:41:21 GMT
My feeling is that they will play the remainder of this season behind closed door to satisfy sponsors, owners, lawyers etc. It probably is the best of a bad set of options for administrators.
What is clearly needed is a European wide strategy for how to go forward because if some leagues cancel (like Scotland has apparently done) and some leagues are determined to play to a finish whatever happens (as Italy appears to be committing to) it's going to create total chaos with the next season in all kinds of ways.
I think this season will not be finished maybe just left behind and known as the 'Coronavirus Season'.Next season may also be under threat. Hmm,if the EU were anywhere near their dream of a USE, a united system would certainly be handy.Is'nt the reality the borders soon went back up once the Coronavirus threat was known and it is very much worse in eg Italy than Germany.So these countries are not "United" particularly and therefore cannot - as yet - move at the same tempo.The Italians may well follow the UK out of the EU. With regards to your last sentence, basel... Whether that's a palatable or unpalatable prospect, I see it as next to nothing as actually happening (no matter what media might on a whim say). Italian feelings are strong one particular way atm, so do you think the EU Empire will grant then a referendum under these circumstances? And even if they did, they'd have to vote again in a Italian People's vote . . . Also, Italy surrendered their currency so are slaves to the Euro and debt? No chance! Pontificating and posture is all for the public interest and media selling their wares..
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basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
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Post by basel on Apr 18, 2020 20:51:43 GMT
I think this season will not be finished maybe just left behind and known as the 'Coronavirus Season'.Next season may also be under threat. Hmm,if the EU were anywhere near their dream of a USE, a united system would certainly be handy.Is'nt the reality the borders soon went back up once the Coronavirus threat was known and it is very much worse in eg Italy than Germany.So these countries are not "United" particularly and therefore cannot - as yet - move at the same tempo.The Italians may well follow the UK out of the EU. With regards to your last sentence, basel... Whether that's a palatable or unpalatable prospect, I see it as next to nothing as actually happening (no matter what media might on a whim say). Italian feelings are strong one particular way atm, so do you think the EU Empire will grant then a referendum under these circumstances? And even if they did, they'd have to vote again in a Italian People's vote . . . Also, Italy surrendered their currency so are slaves to the Euro and debt? No chance! Pontificating and posture is all for the public interest and media selling their wares.. Would'nt Italy just trigger Article 50 to have a EU membership referendum?Do they have to ask Brussels for permission? Anyway,I think the EU and Europe is too big and not united enough to move in the same direction and at the same tempo.So it would be complicated to run European football competitions.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Apr 19, 2020 8:33:57 GMT
With regards to your last sentence, basel... Whether that's a palatable or unpalatable prospect, I see it as next to nothing as actually happening (no matter what media might on a whim say). Italian feelings are strong one particular way atm, so do you think the EU Empire will grant then a referendum under these circumstances? And even if they did, they'd have to vote again in a Italian People's vote . . . Also, Italy surrendered their currency so are slaves to the Euro and debt? No chance! Pontificating and posture is all for the public interest and media selling their wares.. Would'nt Italy just trigger Article 50 to have a EU membership referendum?Do they have to ask Brussels for permission? Anyway,I think the EU and Europe is too big and not united enough to move in the same direction and at the same tempo.So it would be complicated to run European football competitions. Of course they have to ask for permission, we are all slaves to the EU! We are still aligned after almost 4 years.. Haha! Technically, any member country can trigger article 50 if they follow their own constitutional procedures. Practically and reality, we see something very different almost opposite. Uefa is a separate entity to EU, and the governing body regarding football....interesting, they have temporarily dropped the ban on Saturday 3pm televised football. I wonder if it'll ever be restored?
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 1,491
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Post by trymer on Apr 19, 2020 11:14:39 GMT
Would'nt Italy just trigger Article 50 to have a EU membership referendum?Do they have to ask Brussels for permission? Anyway,I think the EU and Europe is too big and not united enough to move in the same direction and at the same tempo.So it would be complicated to run European football competitions. Of course they have to ask for permission, we are all slaves to the EU! We are still aligned after almost 4 years.. Haha! Technically, any member country can trigger article 50 if they follow their own constitutional procedures. Practically and reality, we see something very different almost opposite. Uefa is a separate entity to EU, and the governing body regarding football....interesting, they have temporarily dropped the ban on Saturday 3pm televised football. I wonder if it'll ever be restored? The EU will fall apart,lets hope that it happens before Britain pays the 'divorce bill'. I cant see the government sanctioning any activity with crowds before a vaccine has been given to the general population,unless the virus disappears and there are no new cases for a few months. So we will have to wait for a vaccine to be discovered,tested,made into large quantities and then everyone has to be vaccinated,how long will that take ? I don't see a 2020/21 season being played in front of crowds.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Apr 19, 2020 14:03:28 GMT
"I don't see a 2020/21 season being played in front of crowds."
Since BG has been in charge, it's very difficult to disagree with your evaluation..
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Post by manchestergas on Apr 19, 2020 14:15:40 GMT
The EU won’t fall apart, and definitely not before the end of the transitional period. Always amused lots of brexiteers seem more concerned by the EU, and it falling apart, than making this country better, isn’t that the point of Brexit. Ultimately this country may fall apart as a political union as a result of Brexit, hope it doesn’t, but let’s concentrate on our own house/ Anyway this thread seems to have descended into a bash the EU. We are not in the EU anymore and soon won’t be in the single market.
Covid-19 is one thing that cannot be blamed on the EU. We will have to get used to finding another scape goat to blame for the inadequacies of this country, maybe the Chinese, looks like it has already begun with some on here. Very easy to blame others for this countries failings and indeed the failings of individuals.
i think we should concentrate on this country not the EU. That battle has been fought and is past.
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dido
Predictions League
Peter Aitken
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Post by dido on Apr 19, 2020 14:30:05 GMT
GB/UK. Blame culture. Whingeing Poms. Look in, not out.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 19, 2020 14:55:13 GMT
GB/UK. Blame culture. Whingeing Poms. Look in, not out. History books have used tbe word insular for many centuries, when writing about this island
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Post by manchestergas on Apr 19, 2020 14:57:59 GMT
GB/UK. Blame culture. Whingeing Poms. Look in, not out. History books have used tbe word insular for many centuries, when writing about this island Not sure it’s just us KP, lots of countries/regimes blame others outside their country for their own failings. It’s universal, not UK specific. Anyway don’t want to get into an argument over Brexit with others, that’s past. No idea why the EU has anything to do with the subject of this discussion.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 19, 2020 15:11:44 GMT
History books have used tbe word insular for many centuries, when writing about this island Not sure it’s just us KP, lots of countries/regimes blame others outside their country for their own failings. It’s universal, not UK specific. Anyway don’t want to get into an argument over Brexit with others, that’s past. No idea why the EU has anything to do with the subject of this discussion. I was not referring to the brexit & toxic talk but I was regarded as a keener in history and English as it always interested me. I remember first hearing the word when we were covering the Romans and how they viewed us. The other terms I’ve heard used and by foreign people is little Englanders who will not take onboard new ideas. Just one thing that tickles me in particular is that the Polish always used copious amounts of garlic in cooking of meat in particular but also in the wide variety of lovely side salad dishes. My friends would all rush their own sunday lunches down and turn up here, like orphans who had not eaten in a long time 😂. They would absolutely pack themselves with mums snitzels and potato pancakes, pierogi and much more and then I’d hear but I really hate garlic yet they could not get enough of mums culinary delights. I would find it so very funny, when I told them that they had just eaten a lot of it. It still raises a giggle when I think of it now
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Apr 19, 2020 16:52:47 GMT
Not sure it’s just us KP, lots of countries/regimes blame others outside their country for their own failings. It’s universal, not UK specific. Anyway don’t want to get into an argument over Brexit with others, that’s past. No idea why the EU has anything to do with the subject of this discussion. I was not referring to the brexit & toxic talk but I was regarded as a keener in history and English as it always interested me. I remember first hearing the word when we were covering the Romans and how they viewed us. The other terms I’ve heard used and by foreign people is little Englanders who will not take onboard new ideas. Just one thing that tickles me in particular is that the Polish always used copious amounts of garlic in cooking of meat in particular but also in the wide variety of lovely side salad dishes. My friends would all rush their own sunday lunches down and turn up here, like orphans who had not eaten in a long time 😂. They would absolutely pack themselves with mums snitzels and potato pancakes, pierogi and much more and then I’d hear but I really hate garlic yet they could not get enough of mums culinary delights. I would find it so very funny, when I told them that they had just eaten a lot of it. It still raises a giggle when I think of it now There doesn't need to be anything toxic in sharing memories or life as it was when anyone was young. I love little Englanders! Bless.. They have their place as much as anyone else does if they pay their taxes and are above the age of 18. It's about choice.. Love the anecdote about Kp garlic, though... Angel of Europe 🙂
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basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
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Post by basel on Apr 20, 2020 6:39:08 GMT
Would'nt Italy just trigger Article 50 to have a EU membership referendum?Do they have to ask Brussels for permission? Anyway,I think the EU and Europe is too big and not united enough to move in the same direction and at the same tempo.So it would be complicated to run European football competitions. Of course they have to ask for permission, we are all slaves to the EU! We are still aligned after almost 4 years.. Haha! Technically, any member country can trigger article 50 if they follow their own constitutional procedures. Practically and reality, we see something very different almost opposite. Uefa is a separate entity to EU, and the governing body regarding football....interesting, they have temporarily dropped the ban on Saturday 3pm televised football. I wonder if it'll ever be restored? The virus is in different positions of threat across Europe.So UEFA would find it difficult to play football matches because eg Germany might be in a position to play but Italy not. That was the point I was trying to make.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
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Post by eppinggas on Apr 20, 2020 8:55:39 GMT
GB/UK. Blame culture. Whingeing Poms. Look in, not out. History books have used tbe word insular for many centuries, when writing about this island "insular". Depends on which definition you take... 1. "ignorant of or uninterested in cultures, ideas, or peoples outside one's own experience". Centuries of outward-looking, exploration, global trade and empire building led the UK to be the No. 1 country in terms of GDP before WW1. Maybe we are still yearning for that place in the world. Seems to me we are quite the opposite of inward-looking. 2. "relating to or from an island". We are an island race and this gives us a very different perspective from mainland Europe with it's shared borders. It's only a strip of water 25 miles across, but it has defined us. I have never really felt European. The younger generation would appear to have a different perspective (rightly or wrongly), and that was born out in the demographics of the Brexit vote.
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Apr 20, 2020 11:37:53 GMT
It could only work with a paycut which I think is being discussed.
The thing is it's hard to do with our model of football because you have to negotiate individually at each club. Every owner will have a separate agenda, so will all the different players. In the US, they've already sorted all this through collective bargaining between owners and players. They've already negotiated what % cuts in salary/revenue each has to take to play games behind closed doors. They're ready to go as soon as they get the greenlight. Football will struggle to achieve that clarity because it's so fragmented and the clubs are seen as the business rather than the league. If you see the league (or even the sport) as the primary business rather than the clubs themsleves it makes a huge difference to the perspective on a lot of things; competitive balance, transparency, media coverage etc.
Agree Irish and I can't see how football sorts all this out. For me there's effectively two issues. How to deal with the "rich" Top 2 tiers and their dependence on Sky money, and tier 3 and below who survive largely on gate money. This is further complicated by the fact that tier 1 is governed by the PL and tier 2,3 and 4 is the EFL and tier 5 and below is the FA (correct me if I'm wrong). Players in the lower leagues can't realistically take much of a pay cut as they are not (generally) 'overpaid'. The EFL can't impose a league wide pay cut anyway as individual players have contracts. The EFL are trying to push a 25% wage deferral. All that does is push back the financial problem! It doesn't solve anything. It just gives Clubs a bit of breathing space. It's a mess. I haven't read a sensible solution yet. The EFL still want to finish the season and have announced they intend to stream every game. Personally, I would say the PL can probably play out the season behind closed doors (and still get the Sky/marketing benefits and fulfil legal obligations). That 40 day window discussed yesterday sounds doable and there appears to be a broad agreement. I think maybe the precedent the EFL follows will be Scottish FA. The season finishes now and Clubs will be promoted/relegated in their current positions. No play-offs. Maybe some tweaking required if a Club is just outside the automatic promotion places with games in hand? Some simplified version of the duckworth lewis system? There will be some furious Clubs. But seeing as a huge number of Clubs will be more worried about survival over the coming months... I think this is how it will pan out. Just my opinion. I don't have any faith in the EFL or their governance of the game. It's a huge problem. No easy solutions. The Sun now reporting that Division 2 are discussing ending the season now. www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/efl/
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Post by manchestergas on Apr 20, 2020 11:46:45 GMT
Agree Irish and I can't see how football sorts all this out. For me there's effectively two issues. How to deal with the "rich" Top 2 tiers and their dependence on Sky money, and tier 3 and below who survive largely on gate money. This is further complicated by the fact that tier 1 is governed by the PL and tier 2,3 and 4 is the EFL and tier 5 and below is the FA (correct me if I'm wrong). Players in the lower leagues can't realistically take much of a pay cut as they are not (generally) 'overpaid'. The EFL can't impose a league wide pay cut anyway as individual players have contracts. The EFL are trying to push a 25% wage deferral. All that does is push back the financial problem! It doesn't solve anything. It just gives Clubs a bit of breathing space. It's a mess. I haven't read a sensible solution yet. The EFL still want to finish the season and have announced they intend to stream every game. Personally, I would say the PL can probably play out the season behind closed doors (and still get the Sky/marketing benefits and fulfil legal obligations). That 40 day window discussed yesterday sounds doable and there appears to be a broad agreement. I think maybe the precedent the EFL follows will be Scottish FA. The season finishes now and Clubs will be promoted/relegated in their current positions. No play-offs. Maybe some tweaking required if a Club is just outside the automatic promotion places with games in hand? Some simplified version of the duckworth lewis system? There will be some furious Clubs. But seeing as a huge number of Clubs will be more worried about survival over the coming months... I think this is how it will pan out. Just my opinion. I don't have any faith in the EFL or their governance of the game. It's a huge problem. No easy solutions. The Sun now reporting that Division 2 are discussing ending the season now. www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/efl/Epping tend to agree with you that the UK has historically not been insular. Indeed I think we have been very open. We tend to easily absorb other culturals. The English Channel has however had different functions over time. It was until Henry VIII viewed as a highway to the continent and indeed the Norman English Kings were often more French than English. That changed with good old Henry VIII which made a decisive break with the continent for his own reasons. I however very much feel very European (I like the US but more and more feel it is culturally more distinct to us than European culture) and I dont agree with British exceptionalism. We were always open to the world but we have always had a slightly high opinion of ourselves, but that is not unusual for nations, the Yanks, the Chinese, the French, the Russians, the Japanese and indeed the Italians (the Romans) have all had it as one time or the other and many others. Anyway as I say we need to concentrate on this country now and what happens to the EU is up to them.
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irishrover
Global Moderator
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Post by irishrover on Apr 20, 2020 13:56:03 GMT
Agree Irish and I can't see how football sorts all this out. For me there's effectively two issues. How to deal with the "rich" Top 2 tiers and their dependence on Sky money, and tier 3 and below who survive largely on gate money. This is further complicated by the fact that tier 1 is governed by the PL and tier 2,3 and 4 is the EFL and tier 5 and below is the FA (correct me if I'm wrong). Players in the lower leagues can't realistically take much of a pay cut as they are not (generally) 'overpaid'. The EFL can't impose a league wide pay cut anyway as individual players have contracts. The EFL are trying to push a 25% wage deferral. All that does is push back the financial problem! It doesn't solve anything. It just gives Clubs a bit of breathing space. It's a mess. I haven't read a sensible solution yet. The EFL still want to finish the season and have announced they intend to stream every game. Personally, I would say the PL can probably play out the season behind closed doors (and still get the Sky/marketing benefits and fulfil legal obligations). That 40 day window discussed yesterday sounds doable and there appears to be a broad agreement. I think maybe the precedent the EFL follows will be Scottish FA. The season finishes now and Clubs will be promoted/relegated in their current positions. No play-offs. Maybe some tweaking required if a Club is just outside the automatic promotion places with games in hand? Some simplified version of the duckworth lewis system? There will be some furious Clubs. But seeing as a huge number of Clubs will be more worried about survival over the coming months... I think this is how it will pan out. Just my opinion. I don't have any faith in the EFL or their governance of the game. It's a huge problem. No easy solutions. The Sun now reporting that Division 2 are discussing ending the season now. www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/efl/Why just League 2? That seems a bit strange.
There are really only 2 options here; a)cancel the season and simply start it again from scratch when everything restarts or b)resume where it left off. I can't see how the Scottish option can possibly work. Aston Villa are currently in the Premer League relegation zone with a game in hand. You can't just end the season and relegate them. Neither can you just tie up the loose end by getting them or clubs in a similar position) to play the extra game. Both options are ridiculous.
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basel
Joined: May 2014
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Post by basel on Apr 20, 2020 14:04:22 GMT
Why just League 2? That seems a bit strange.
There are really only 2 options here; a)cancel the season and simply start it again from scratch when everything restarts or b)resume where it left off. I can't see how the Scottish option can possibly work. Aston Villa are currently in the Premer League relegation zone with a game in hand. You can't just end the season and relegate them. Neither can you just tie up the loose end by getting them or clubs in a similar position) to play the extra game. Both options are ridiculous.
As I posted earlier,hardly satisfactory, but it may be done,cancel this 'Coronavirus season'.None of what has been played counts for any promotion and relegation etc. Gone. Only another football memory. Then start again when it's safe to do do. I don't think this option is out of the question.Hugely disappointing for eg Liverpool and Barrow but carrying g on with season may produce too many headaches.
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