warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Apr 20, 2020 21:55:21 GMT
Note - I think the PL will finish behind close doors. So in my cunning plan - only 2 go down from the PL as in my imaginary world play-offs will be scrapped as being unnecessary. Championship: Leeds & West Brom promoted, Luton & Barnsley relegated. Division 1: Coventry & Rotherham promoted, Bolton & Southend relegated. Division 2: Crewe, Swindon & Plymouth promoted (Swindle as champions as their game in hand "points per game" gives them the title). Stevenage relegated. So no need to apply a "points per game" to decide on promotion / relegation issues in the EFL. Plus the sh*t are denied the chance of a play-off place. Aaaaarrrrrhhhhhhh. What's not to like? Job sorted. I've had a re-think. Just to spite warehamgas I am introducing play-offs to my made up world and that means Bournemouth are now relegated. I’ll take that as a joke and not take it personally. 😉 You'll correct me if I’m wrong I’m sure. Im only a ST at AFCB because of a quirk of employment. Had I got a job somewhere else it might have been different. But I was determined that my sons wouldn’t be armchair united or Arsenal fans in the 90s so took them to their local league club and one became a real fan and now we go together. And we were there when they avoided “doing-a-Rovers” in their great escape season after being given a -17 point start with Luton on -30. How times change. But to the point, they will finish the PL season, if not the others. I’ll often criticise the authorities but I don’t envy them this dilemma. They‘re damned if they do and damned if they don’t. I wish them luck! UTG!
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Rex
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Post by Rex on Apr 21, 2020 7:08:24 GMT
I'm afraid you can expect more of me diving in on any threads that mentions kings and queens, US state capitals and the London Underground No, that’s good, don’t apologise. I’m afraid I’m a bit of an anorak when it comes to British history esp the Plantagenets. UTG! Oh you mean Henry 3, Edwards 1,2 &3 and Richard 2
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Rex
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Post by Rex on Apr 21, 2020 7:15:12 GMT
Yes agree they viewed themselves to a degree as French, although the nation state of France didn’t really exist. A monarch existed but not really a country it was a series of regions/dukedoms. They spoke French and looked at the world in French, but was there a French nation? Not really nation states are relatively recent creations. Henry II probably exemplified that type of King the best. Yes the normans were originally Norseman but I think William ‘the b******’ was more French than Norse in the end. Of course the Anglo Saxons were German and Danish in origin. The north of England was very Norse. We are a mixture of many nations, Vive le mixed nature of our country! I tell you what, the standard of debate here has risen a notch during lockdown! Shall we have a guess the gate for Agincourt?
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basel
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Post by basel on Apr 21, 2020 7:53:45 GMT
Yes agree they viewed themselves to a degree as French, although the nation state of France didn’t really exist. A monarch existed but not really a country it was a series of regions/dukedoms. They spoke French and looked at the world in French, but was there a French nation? Not really nation states are relatively recent creations. Henry II probably exemplified that type of King the best. Yes the normans were originally Norseman but I think William ‘the b******’ was more French than Norse in the end. Of course the Anglo Saxons were German and Danish in origin. The north of England was very Norse. We are a mixture of many nations, Vive le mixed nature of our country! I tell you what, the standard of debate here has risen a notch during lockdown! Shall we have a guess the gate for Agincourt? Well if you can't beat em,join em..... I looked this up Rex,I did'nt know (maybe someone here does),but I do know t some Agincourt basics. Apparently there are five accounts from men who claim to of actually been there. Maybe there were quite alot more watching,but did'nt scribble a report.Local French season ticket holders I imagine.
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Apr 21, 2020 8:26:14 GMT
I've had a re-think. Just to spite warehamgas I am introducing play-offs to my made up world and that means Bournemouth are now relegated. I’ll take that as a joke and not take it personally. 😉 You'll correct me if I’m wrong I’m sure. Im only a ST at AFCB because of a quirk of employment. Had I got a job somewhere else it might have been different. But I was determined that my sons wouldn’t be armchair united or Arsenal fans in the 90s so took them to their local league club and one became a real fan and now we go together. And we were there when they avoided “doing-a-Rovers” in their great escape season after being given a -17 point start with Luton on -30. How times change. But to the point, they will finish the PL season, if not the others. I’ll often criticise the authorities but I don’t envy them this dilemma. They‘re damned if they do and damned if they don’t. I wish them luck! UTG! Indeed a joke (just not a very good one). And agreed, the PL to finish behind closed doors. EFL to finish now and to apply the "eppinggas method" for promotion / relegation / naming of champions. I reckon that play-offs could be introduced behind closed doors as that would guarantee some decent revenue on a pay-per-view basis (I would pay, but then again I am quite sad). Ultimately in this country... it's all about the money. But we knew that anyway. And yes, I remember the Bournemouth 'great escape' season under Eddie Howe... Had a couple of good trips to Deane Court, both losses of course...
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dido
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Peter Aitken
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Post by dido on Apr 21, 2020 10:14:11 GMT
I tell you what, the standard of debate here has risen a notch during lockdown! Shall we have a guess the gate for Agincourt? Well if you can't beat em,join em..... I looked this up Rex,I did'nt know (maybe someone here does),but I do know t some Agincourt basics. Apparently there are five accounts from men who claim to of actually been there. Maybe there were quite alot more watching,but did'nt scribble a report.Local French season ticket holders I imagine. Well done basel. That's one in the eye for Rex.
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Apr 21, 2020 12:56:10 GMT
Yes agree they viewed themselves to a degree as French, although the nation state of France didn’t really exist. A monarch existed but not really a country it was a series of regions/dukedoms. They spoke French and looked at the world in French, but was there a French nation? Not really nation states are relatively recent creations. Henry II probably exemplified that type of King the best. Yes the normans were originally Norseman but I think William ‘the b******’ was more French than Norse in the end. Of course the Anglo Saxons were German and Danish in origin. The north of England was very Norse. We are a mixture of many nations, Vive le mixed nature of our country! I tell you what, the standard of debate here has risen a notch during lockdown! Shall we have a guess the gate for Agincourt? Istr that it was 1415, a bit low for England v France imo. But perhaps the ferries were on strike. Transport links not good obviously and the weather was wet before the match started which kept the crowds away and favoured the English. 😉 UTG!
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Apr 21, 2020 13:02:30 GMT
No, that’s good, don’t apologise. I’m afraid I’m a bit of an anorak when it comes to British history esp the Plantagenets. UTG! Oh you mean Henry 3, Edwards 1,2 &3 and Richard 2 More or less but strictly speaking it began with the accession of Henry II in 1154 and ended with Richard IIIs death at Bosworth Field in 1485, over 300 years. Quite a dynasty. Stephen was the last of the Norman kings before and Henry VII the first Tudor King after. UTG!
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 21, 2020 13:26:32 GMT
I was not referring to the brexit & toxic talk but I was regarded as a keener in history and English as it always interested me. I remember first hearing the word when we were covering the Romans and how they viewed us. The other terms I’ve heard used and by foreign people is little Englanders who will not take onboard new ideas. Just one thing that tickles me in particular is that the Polish always used copious amounts of garlic in cooking of meat in particular but also in the wide variety of lovely side salad dishes. My friends would all rush their own sunday lunches down and turn up here, like orphans who had not eaten in a long time 😂. They would absolutely pack themselves with mums snitzels and potato pancakes, pierogi and much more and then I’d hear but I really hate garlic yet they could not get enough of mums culinary delights. I would find it so very funny, when I told them that they had just eaten a lot of it. It still raises a giggle when I think of it now There doesn't need to be anything toxic in sharing memories or life as it was when anyone was young. I love little Englanders! Bless.. They have their place as much as anyone else does if they pay their taxes and are above the age of 18. It's about choice.. Love the anecdote about Kp garlic, though... Angel of Europe 🙂 Mum and dad fed so many of the friends of mine. I remember being very shocked when I went to their homes & they were not allowed into the pantry or to cook something for themselves. I may not have had fashionable clothes but food was never a problem and mum loved to see her efforts appreciated. One custom that she kept, right up to her final days, was laying an extra place, just incase someone hungry turned up. I think some polish still practice this
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Rex
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Post by Rex on Apr 21, 2020 13:29:35 GMT
Oh you mean Henry 3, Edwards 1,2 &3 and Richard 2 More or less but strictly speaking it began with the accession of Henry II in 1154 and ended with Richard IIIs death at Bosworth Field in 1485, over 300 years. Quite a dynasty. Stephen was the last of the Norman kings before and Henry VII the first Tudor King after. UTG! I was of course confusing 'The House of Plantagenet' with 'The Plantagenets'. Every day's a school day!
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kingswood Polak
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 21, 2020 13:38:30 GMT
History books have used tbe word insular for many centuries, when writing about this island "insular". Depends on which definition you take... 1. "ignorant of or uninterested in cultures, ideas, or peoples outside one's own experience". Centuries of outward-looking, exploration, global trade and empire building led the UK to be the No. 1 country in terms of GDP before WW1. Maybe we are still yearning for that place in the world. Seems to me we are quite the opposite of inward-looking. 2. "relating to or from an island". We are an island race and this gives us a very different perspective from mainland Europe with it's shared borders. It's only a strip of water 25 miles across, but it has defined us. I have never really felt European. The younger generation would appear to have a different perspective (rightly or wrongly), and that was born out in the demographics of the Brexit vote. Your post really struck a chord with me as, although born and raised here, I always felt I was not at home here. When I was in primary and then a short time in grammar school, then moved to my local one, I was told to foxtrot oscar back home yet, when I visited Poland I was calked an Anglik ( Englander) when there. It was confusing but the worst part is that it was, largely said, by teachers and adults. Someone once asked me how I could explain this feeling and then I stumbled upon a bronze of a man, on a beach but with parts of him missing & carrying a suitcase, so it gave me the phrase that I felt like a jigsaw with one single part missing. The kids and friends never had any such issues and I was treated just as I should
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Apr 21, 2020 13:46:59 GMT
More or less but strictly speaking it began with the accession of Henry II in 1154 and ended with Richard IIIs death at Bosworth Field in 1485, over 300 years. Quite a dynasty. Stephen was the last of the Norman kings before and Henry VII the first Tudor King after. UTG! I was of course confusing 'The House of Plantagenet' with 'The Plantagenets'. Every day's a school day! I’m happy to be corrected on this. The term ‘Plantagenet’, was plant of the genesta (type of gorse) which was found in Anjou, part of France. So, Henry II, who came from there adopted it as a symbol. His sons Richard I and John were true Angevins, having been born there but from Henry III onwards (Johns son) they were not true Angevins, never having been in Anjou for any length of time but were of the house of Plantagenet. And since the mid 19th century when the term Plantagenets was coined they have all been classified as ‘Plantagenets’ when I suppose, as you said, Henry III onwards were of the house of Plantagenet. As you say, every day is a school day.😀 UTG!
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kingswood Polak
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 21, 2020 13:49:21 GMT
Epping tend to agree with you that the UK has historically not been insular. Indeed I think we have been very open. We tend to easily absorb other culturals. The English Channel has however had different functions over time. It was until Henry VIII viewed as a highway to the continent and indeed the Norman English Kings were often more French than English. That changed with good old Henry VIII which made a decisive break with the continent for his own reasons. I however very much feel very European (I like the US but more and more feel it is culturally more distinct to us than European culture) and I dont agree with British exceptionalism. We were always open to the world but we have always had a slightly high opinion of ourselves, but that is not unusual for nations, the Yanks, the Chinese, the French, the Russians, the Japanese and indeed the Italians (the Romans) have all had it as one time or the other and many others. Anyway as I say we need to concentrate on this country now and what happens to the EU is up to them. We looked abroad for piracy and money under Queen Elizabeth the first. Drake was a very skilled pirateer and when the queen was asked by the Spanish king, to stop him, she gave him her blessing but not in an official and written way. It was probably one of the first black ops mission statements that occurred. The British empire was one ruled by fear and torture and not to forward relations 😂. We taught many countries the art of a prolonged torture regimen. I’m sure you know this anyway, we could not afford an army if not for the good and silver plus other precious things that Drake, Percy and Raleigh plundered. It was a very profitable business
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kingswood Polak
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 21, 2020 13:56:15 GMT
Norman wisdom aplenty on here. Very clever indeed. Top marks my friend. Very very good
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 21, 2020 13:59:38 GMT
I'm afraid you can expect more of me diving in on any threads that mentions kings and queens, US state capitals and the London Underground No, that’s good, don’t apologise. I’m afraid I’m a bit of an anorak when it comes to British history esp the Plantagenets. UTG! I like it too but it the Tudor’s & Stuart’s with me
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Apr 21, 2020 15:07:51 GMT
I like the Tudor period. Lots of political and social intrigue and over the years it’s become very popular with several very good books and programmes but the Stuarts leave me a bit cold. So many advantages yet somehow the kings all managed to screw it up. UTG!
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Apr 21, 2020 15:22:36 GMT
Yes agree they viewed themselves to a degree as French, although the nation state of France didn’t really exist. A monarch existed but not really a country it was a series of regions/dukedoms. They spoke French and looked at the world in French, but was there a French nation? Not really nation states are relatively recent creations. Henry II probably exemplified that type of King the best. Yes the normans were originally Norseman but I think William ‘the b******’ was more French than Norse in the end. Of course the Anglo Saxons were German and Danish in origin. The north of England was very Norse. We are a mixture of many nations, Vive le mixed nature of our country! Yes, France only really grew around the 15th century 100 years war when they filled some of the gaps left by England not keeping their lands. The Normans weren’t French really, as you say they were Norsemen, I think their leader was called Rollo or something like that much earlier. I would imagine that the present UK is a complete mixture of so many different invasions or different immigrations and we’re all the stronger for that. Not that it seems to make us any more tolerant of those seeking to do what our forefathers did years ago! Don’t know enough about other countries but I suppose those of mainland Europe must have been open to similar mixes. Poland must be very mixed going back through the centuries. Sweden, Lithuania all had big empires of which Poland was part and of course over the past 250 years they have had pressures from France, Germany and Russia because of their geographical position. I’m sure KP will know far more. Perhaps those at the extreme edges, Norway, Sweden or Portugal may have had less mixing being where they are.
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kingswood Polak
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 21, 2020 15:59:48 GMT
Yes agree they viewed themselves to a degree as French, although the nation state of France didn’t really exist. A monarch existed but not really a country it was a series of regions/dukedoms. They spoke French and looked at the world in French, but was there a French nation? Not really nation states are relatively recent creations. Henry II probably exemplified that type of King the best. Yes the normans were originally Norseman but I think William ‘the b******’ was more French than Norse in the end. Of course the Anglo Saxons were German and Danish in origin. The north of England was very Norse. We are a mixture of many nations, Vive le mixed nature of our country! Yes, France only really grew around the 15th century 100 years war when they filled some of the gaps left by England not keeping their lands. The Normans weren’t French really, as you say they were Norsemen, I think their leader was called Rollo or something like that much earlier. I would imagine that the present UK is a complete mixture of so many different invasions or different immigrations and we’re all the stronger for that. Not that it seems to make us any more tolerant of those seeking to do what our forefathers did years ago! Don’t know enough about other countries but I suppose those of mainland Europe must have been open to similar mixes. Poland must be very mixed going back through the centuries. Sweden, Lithuania all had big empires of which Poland was part and of course over the past 250 years they have had pressures from France, Germany and Russia because of their geographical position. I’m sure KP will know far more. Perhaps those at the extreme edges, Norway, Sweden or Portugal may have had less mixing being where they are. I have a book that is entitled a thousand years of Poland and it’s a totally unbiased read, based on fact only and yet it still makes me proud. The Poles had the first true parliament but it was slightly flawed in that it only took one person to disagree and it was over. I believe the same principle applies now. It’s called the Seym. The Swedes had many battles with them and conquered them. Poland was at its most powerful when it had the Polish-Lithuanian empire and it sounded like a very forward thinking place. Sadly, Poles have a nasty habit of fighting amongst themselves if there is no common enemy and this where dads saying of where 2 people argue, the 3rd can take advantage, is of particular importance. They had their own royal families and basically war lords. There were at least 7 ruling families so a law was brought out that any king or queen would be picked from a foreign country. Two of the most successful were Stefan Batory ( Hungarian) & Jan Sobieski III ( Slavic). Sobieski is still hero worshipped to this day, for stopping a hugely superior force, from the Ottoman Empire, conquering the whole of Europe. His tactics were well ahead of their time plus he was lucky in that 2 large and professional units of Ukrainian Cossacks and a unit of Tartars never joined in, on the side of the ottomans but just watched the battle. It’s a fantastic read, sad in parts as it showed the a disgruntled and divided country was just rich pickings but great in the parts where the country was as one. I guess it’s why you have so many strikingly beautiful blondes in certain parts, they are a shoe in time have Swedish genetics. Boy, I could go on here but I will stop. If interested I can lend you the book
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dido
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Peter Aitken
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Post by dido on Apr 21, 2020 16:00:50 GMT
And you lot criticise the BRFCSC for 'living in the past'!
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kingswood Polak
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 21, 2020 16:03:25 GMT
And you lot criticise the BRFCSC for 'living in the past'! Not like we have anything contemporary to talk about, unless you want to argue about the SC
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