Peter Parker
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Post by Peter Parker on Apr 5, 2020 7:16:33 GMT
Back on topic, the PFA are now pretending that players taking a pay cut would harm the NHS. As if the employer couldn't just forward the entire tax that would have been paid to the exchequer, and the rest be paid direct to either charities, support groups or front line services. These people are truly disgusting. Add to that, Liverpool are the latest club to dip their hands in to public funds to protect their massive piles of cash. I suspect that people will remember who these clubs are and this will, rightly, follow them for many years. In fairness, every Liverpool supporters' group I can find on line is saying that they are embarrassed and opposed to this. So far we have; Liverpool Norwich Newcastle Spurs . Chairman Levy pays himself £3,000,000 a year. Bournemouth. This mob had no problem finding many millions over and above their allowed spending limit to buy their way in to the PL. Nothing whatsoever to do with the supporters, but the people running these clubs make me feel quite sick. What a poor take from the PFA in the situation,especially now we know the Government can find money when it wants to just like that. The bit that boiled my blood was "the PFA and LEADING AGENTS, beleive wage deferrals were better than pay cuts" Leading agents, what f**king say should they have
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Apr 5, 2020 8:35:55 GMT
Back on topic, the PFA are now pretending that players taking a pay cut would harm the NHS. As if the employer couldn't just forward the entire tax that would have been paid to the exchequer, and the rest be paid direct to either charities, support groups or front line services. These people are truly disgusting. Add to that, Liverpool are the latest club to dip their hands in to public funds to protect their massive piles of cash. I suspect that people will remember who these clubs are and this will, rightly, follow them for many years. In fairness, every Liverpool supporters' group I can find on line is saying that they are embarrassed and opposed to this. So far we have; Liverpool Norwich Newcastle Spurs . Chairman Levy pays himself £3,000,000 a year. Bournemouth. This mob had no problem finding many millions over and above their allowed spending limit to buy their way in to the PL. Nothing whatsoever to do with the supporters, but the people running these clubs make me feel quite sick. What a poor take from the PFA in the situation,especially now we know the Government can find money when it wants to just like that. The bit that boiled my blood was "the PFA and LEADING AGENTS, beleive wage deferrals were better than pay cuts" Leading agents, what fing say should they have In total agreement with Bamber & PP. Disgusting doesn't cover it. I wasn't exactly ecstatic about the proposal for a 30% pay cut, but it's something. Even as the duck says - it was largely a pretty cynical face-saving exercise. 50% and I would have grudgingly given it the thumbs up. I don't think anyone put their name to the PFA statement? Wonder why. These people would get lynched. This has shown "Football" in it's true colours. And colours we have known for some time. Filthy greed in a time of national crisis. "We" should boycott any product that is anything to do with the Premier League. End of. Hey ho. We have NHS cleaners on minimum wage risking their lives on a daily basis, whilst the PFA make excuses on behalf of players so that they can continue to earn 100% of their £100-£200k a week. "Football" has completely mis-judged public opinion. I think this changes football. This won't get forgotten.
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Apr 5, 2020 8:57:19 GMT
When the Premier League was launched I expressed concern with my friends It seemed and has since proved to be a very good business product However it was obvious to anyone surely that the cascade of wages from top to bottom of the professional game would eventually become a millstone for many clubs and unsustainable While the 'animal farm' pigs in the trough keep taking the money from the likes of sky... bt etc they have had no wish to see the longer term implications A club likes ours should never be in the amount of debt it is.... completely scandalous and all avoidable with proper governance from the top of the Prem EFL and FA etc When you add in pundits by the hundreds and agents unsurprising that the sport is struggling with any level of normality You reap what you sow The thing is topman... I strongly dislike Sky/The Premier Leage/the PFA and the EFL. Governance is a joke. BUT. That is not the reason Bristol Rovers are nearly £25mil in debt. That is down to a succession of incompetent owners who have allowed the debt to rack up (I don't care that it's now all internal debt). Bristol Rovers average gate over the last few years 8,400. Currently losing £3-£4mil a year. Accrington Stanley average gate over the last few years 2,300. Currently operating at a profit. 'Nuff said.
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Post by laughinggas on Apr 5, 2020 9:01:14 GMT
Is one of the main points, which is getting lost in the media is that companies can stop paying some people letting the government pay 80% of their wages. Surely the loophole that allows some, especially high earners, to be kept on while others are not paid. Their must be more than football clubs taking advantage here?
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Apr 5, 2020 10:11:01 GMT
I’d be surprised if Sky wanted to destroy our game and that people think that. Sky, in this country at least, are so linked with football that they will want to preserve it at all costs. Pretty sure that without football there would be no Sky. So much of Sky’s content is linked to the PL. What has happened is that they have changed football from what it is and have created an elite league, the PL. if you are part of that you are happy or at least wealthy, if you are not part of it you are not wealthy. (You may still be happy though!) I suggest that because we are on the outside looking in, and look likely to remain so, our opinions are always likely to be anti-Sky/BT and we will look back to a different age and think it was all better then. The trouble is that Sky want the PL football to be their football league and their competition which we all dislike I think. They have a vested interest in making it successful because a successful PL is a successful Sky. I don’t like that but the clubs have made themselves totally dependent upon Sky so there’s no going back now. If Sky weren’t there what would we have? Netflix, Amazon or someone else which would be not much different. The BBC are just as bad if not worse, albeit free (well, apart from the licence fee). They are equally obsessed with the PL. we see less EFL on the BBC than Sky for goodness sake. Sky will at least know who BRFC are, I doubt the BBC do. The have-nots, us, will always look back to a better time! I think you’re correct about it going back to “normal” afterwards BG, people will continue with their subscriptions. I hope it does change but I don’t think it will for the reason you’ve said. Those who want the service will pay for it. But you make them sound, by calling them “mugs” as if they don’t know what they are doing. I’ve no idea whether you have Sky or not but I do have Sky and like most of the subscribers I make a choice of how I spend my money and if they provide a service I want I will pay for it. They do provide that service and being retired I now have the time to enjoy my retirement especially the cricket in the summer so I choose to pay it. And of course the choice is never as simple as “I-don’t-like-what-they-have-done-to-football-I-will-cancel-my-subscription”. I don’t like the impact of Sky on the old 92 team Football League and how they have divided our game into haves and have-nots. However, that impact has more to do with the greed of the big 5 back in the 90s. Of course Sky have been the body through which this greed has been fed but if it hadn’t been Sky it would have been someone else. If the football-lovers were to cancel their subscription then it would have an impact obviously but not everyone subscribes because of the football. My Sports subscription has little to do with football, I rarely watch live football (I can get enough on the BBC) and only watch stuff on the rare occasions or when we are on (rarer!) But I do watch the cricket and that is what determines my subscription and I know lots of my cricket friends have it for the same reason. I have little sympathy for their position at the moment and hate what’s happened to football on their watch but Sky is about a lot more that just football and for that reason I agree with you: after the CV19 crisis has passed it will largely go back to normal. Stay safe. UTG! A very reasoned argument. I just really really want you and Bamber to be wrong. So do I in a way. UTG!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2020 10:11:49 GMT
Footballers are just easy targets in my view,working class boys that happen to earn big money.
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Apr 5, 2020 11:00:34 GMT
I’d be surprised if Sky wanted to destroy our game and that people think that. Sky, in this country at least, are so linked with football that they will want to preserve it at all costs. Pretty sure that without football there would be no Sky. So much of Sky’s content is linked to the PL. What has happened is that they have changed football from what it is and have created an elite league, the PL. if you are part of that you are happy or at least wealthy, if you are not part of it you are not wealthy. (You may still be happy though!) I suggest that because we are on the outside looking in, and look likely to remain so, our opinions are always likely to be anti-Sky/BT and we will look back to a different age and think it was all better then. The trouble is that Sky want the PL football to be their football league and their competition which we all dislike I think. They have a vested interest in making it successful because a successful PL is a successful Sky. I don’t like that but the clubs have made themselves totally dependent upon Sky so there’s no going back now....... Couple of things; You've changed what I said slightly. I didn't say that they wanted to destroy our game, I said that they were happy to do it, the point being, in exchange for money, they'll throw clubs like Rovers to the wolves and not lose a minute of sleep worrying about it. I have no idea what it would have cost to save Bury, but I'll wager that it was less than 1 day's wages for all PL players. This is the structure that Sky have put in place. I think you are right, I should have pointed the finger at the PL as an entity also. Can you give a good reason why Citeh shouldn't be thrown out or why Bournemouth were allowed into the PL? Both should be expelled in my opinion. But this isn't a competition about rules, it's about money. You feed that debased model if you choose to, I would rather not. I certainly didn’t intend to change what you said, apologies, it was not intentional but tbh “wanted to” and “happy to” not too different and either way I don’t believe it’s in their interest to do so nor their intention, imo. But you’re right over the major point and I agree with you over your other points. In the pre 1992 days they were part of a 92 place FL and perhaps grudgingly they had to support other league members but once the PL had come they could concentrate upon their own league and the structures that grew up around it. It became a very successful money making organisation but a selfish one supporting their members and past members (parachute payments). I guess it was a change in emphasis from a 92 place league to a 20 place PL. Add that to the proliferation of subscription TV and the technological changes occurring meant that it grew and grew. Great timing for them, not so good for the other 72 clubs. Your other points about Bury, and presumably the next club/clubs to go that way are correct. As to City and AFCB (you really dont like Bournemouth do you?) I guess they are still there because they were punished by being fined. You perhaps think the punishment should include being expelled from the elite club. I don’t know if being expelled is a punishment in the rules. And perhaps as they are part of this elite club by being members they are “looked after”. I think there have been other miscreants as well and so far, none have been expelled. I don’t know that the Sky model is a “debased” one or not. You don’t like it, I get that but I would suggest it’s seen in business circles as a very successful business model. It is driven by a basic principle of supply and demand. Like a shop, style of furniture, or anything that people sell, they provide a service or a commodity that someone else wants and who is prepared to pay for it. In Sky’s case they have a very popular service or commodity that people are prepared to pay for. They provide a diversified model of sport, news, entertainment and arts to appeal to a wide audience then proceeded to try and maintain a monopoly as far as possible. That is now being invaded by others in regards to sport, Amazon, Netflix, BT etc but they will change probably to maintain their success. But as a business model i wouldn’t call it “debased” I would call it successful. And because BRFC aren’t part of it we don’t like it!!! Boo hoo. 😭 Stay safe. UTG!
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Apr 5, 2020 11:05:39 GMT
Back on topic, the PFA are now pretending that players taking a pay cut would harm the NHS. As if the employer couldn't just forward the entire tax that would have been paid to the exchequer, and the rest be paid direct to either charities, support groups or front line services. These people are truly disgusting. Add to that, Liverpool are the latest club to dip their hands in to public funds to protect their massive piles of cash. I suspect that people will remember who these clubs are and this will, rightly, follow them for many years. In fairness, every Liverpool supporters' group I can find on line is saying that they are embarrassed and opposed to this. So far we have; Liverpool Norwich Newcastle Spurs . Chairman Levy pays himself £3,000,000 a year. Bournemouth. This mob had no problem finding many millions over and above their allowed spending limit to buy their way in to the PL. Nothing whatsoever to do with the supporters, but the people running these clubs make me feel quite sick. Shorter response this time! Agree. It’s laughable isn’t it? If you made this stuff up no one would believe it. It’s a totally indefensible position they are arguing and they are pushing themselves into a corner. After it’s all over there will be a pay back. UTG!
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Apr 5, 2020 11:35:18 GMT
Couple of things; You've changed what I said slightly. I didn't say that they wanted to destroy our game, I said that they were happy to do it, the point being, in exchange for money, they'll throw clubs like Rovers to the wolves and not lose a minute of sleep worrying about it. I have no idea what it would have cost to save Bury, but I'll wager that it was less than 1 day's wages for all PL players. This is the structure that Sky have put in place. I think you are right, I should have pointed the finger at the PL as an entity also. Can you give a good reason why Citeh shouldn't be thrown out or why Bournemouth were allowed into the PL? Both should be expelled in my opinion. But this isn't a competition about rules, it's about money. You feed that debased model if you choose to, I would rather not. ... And because BRFC aren’t part of it we don’t like it!!! Boo hoo. 😭 Stay safe. UTG! And if BRFC were part of it - I'd stop going. I'm pretty sure Gasheads aren't in it for the glory. For me the culture and identity of the Football Club (that we seem to be losing rapidly) is far more important than "success". UTG.
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Apr 5, 2020 11:39:51 GMT
Footballers are just easy targets in my view,working class boys that happen to earn big money. If they are working class, they would appear to have forgotten the communities / schools / hospitals that helped and supported them in their formative years. Easy and very worthy targets.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2020 11:41:30 GMT
Couple of things; You've changed what I said slightly. I didn't say that they wanted to destroy our game, I said that they were happy to do it, the point being, in exchange for money, they'll throw clubs like Rovers to the wolves and not lose a minute of sleep worrying about it. I have no idea what it would have cost to save Bury, but I'll wager that it was less than 1 day's wages for all PL players. This is the structure that Sky have put in place. I think you are right, I should have pointed the finger at the PL as an entity also. Can you give a good reason why Citeh shouldn't be thrown out or why Bournemouth were allowed into the PL? Both should be expelled in my opinion. But this isn't a competition about rules, it's about money. You feed that debased model if you choose to, I would rather not. I certainly didn’t intend to change what you said, apologies, it was not intentional but tbh “wanted to” and “happy to” not too different and either way I don’t believe it’s in their interest to do so nor their intention, imo. But you’re right over the major point and I agree with you over your other points. In the pre 1992 days they were part of a 92 place FL and perhaps grudgingly they had to support other league members but once the PL had come they could concentrate upon their own league and the structures that grew up around it. It became a very successful money making organisation but a selfish one supporting their members and past members (parachute payments). I guess it was a change in emphasis from a 92 place league to a 20 place PL. Add that to the proliferation of subscription TV and the technological changes occurring meant that it grew and grew. Great timing for them, not so good for the other 72 clubs. Your other points about Bury, and presumably the next club/clubs to go that way are correct. As to City and AFCB (you really dont like Bournemouth do you?) I guess they are still there because they were punished by being fined. You perhaps think the punishment should include being expelled from the elite club. I don’t know if being expelled is a punishment in the rules. And perhaps as they are part of this elite club by being members they are “looked after”. I think there have been other miscreants as well and so far, none have been expelled. I don’t know that the Sky model is a “debased” one or not. You don’t like it, I get that but I would suggest it’s seen in business circles as a very successful business model. It is driven by a basic principle of supply and demand. Like a shop, style of furniture, or anything that people sell, they provide a service or a commodity that someone else wants and who is prepared to pay for it. In Sky’s case they have a very popular service or commodity that people are prepared to pay for. They provide a diversified model of sport, news, entertainment and arts to appeal to a wide audience then proceeded to try and maintain a monopoly as far as possible. That is now being invaded by others in regards to sport, Amazon, Netflix, BT etc but they will change probably to maintain their success. But as a business model i wouldn’t call it “debased” I would call it successful. And because BRFC aren’t part of it we don’t like it!!! Boo hoo. 😭 Stay safe. UTG! I don't know if I want Rovers to ever get into the PL. We've done this conversation on multiple occasions on this forum, there's a price paid to join that club. I don't really care about Bournemouth as a club, but they are a perfect example of how the entire PL model is driven by money. They blatantly and deliberately ignored the rules to buy a place at the top table, were paid £10 for arriving there, and were fined 10p for being naughty doing it. I hope that Rovers never sink to doing anything like this. Hope everyone is well at your end. Take care and stay safe.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2020 11:52:59 GMT
Footballers are just easy targets in my view,working class boys that happen to earn big money. If they are working class, they would appear to have forgotten the communities / schools / hospitals that helped and supported them in their formative years. Easy and very worthy targets. You have no idea what each footballer is doing to help. Why just footballers? lots of very wealthy people not needed right now who are not footballers.
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trymer
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Post by trymer on Apr 5, 2020 12:05:28 GMT
Maybe the government should take ALL wages and make monthly payments to each person equivalent to the minimum wage whilst the crisis continues ?
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Apr 5, 2020 12:51:25 GMT
If they are working class, they would appear to have forgotten the communities / schools / hospitals that helped and supported them in their formative years. Easy and very worthy targets. You have no idea what each footballer is doing to help. Why just footballers? lots of very wealthy people not needed right now who are not footballers. You have no idea what each footballer is doing to help.
And neither do you. There a couple of exceptions - Jordan Henderson, Danny Rose (probably a few more). Sadly they are massively outnumbered by selfish, over-paid, morons. If they were unilaterally taking 50% pay cuts, I'm pretty damn sure we would have heard about it by now. It was reported that Barcelona players are taking a 70% pay cut. English football and the vast majority of premiership players are rotten with greed to the core. Disgusting individuals. Why just footballers? Lots of very wealthy people not needed right now who are not footballers.True enough. Football is a great place to start though.
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Apr 5, 2020 12:55:23 GMT
Sorry to keep on. My final (?) thought in relation to us. I agree with those who've said they don’t want to see Rovers in the PL. having watched AFCB over their time in the PL (and in their season when with -17 points they avoided non league football just). Whilst they are living the dream, I know several who can’t afford the ST now and struggle to get a ticket and of those that go a few say all we do is aim at getting 40 points so to avoid going down. Unfortunately it is about money, they just want to be in the “PL club” and who can blame them? But it’s not for me. It becomes boring and tbh I think some AFCB fans are beginning to recognise that, but they probably won’t admit it! 😉 UTG! Stay safe everyone
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Rex
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Post by Rex on Apr 5, 2020 14:05:00 GMT
Sorry to keep on. My final (?) thought in relation to us. I agree with those who've said they don’t want to see Rovers in the PL. having watched AFCB over their time in the PL (and in their season when with -17 points they avoided non league football just). Whilst they are living the dream, I know several who can’t afford the ST now and struggle to get a ticket and of those that go a few say all we do is aim at getting 40 points so to avoid going down. Unfortunately it is about money, they just want to be in the “PL club” and who can blame them? But it’s not for me. It becomes boring and tbh I think some AFCB fans are beginning to recognise that, but they probably won’t admit it! 😉UTG! Stay safe everyone I was chatting to a Bournemouth fan a couple of years ago , so about 3 years into their Premier League stint. He had been watching them for years and while he said he wasn't moaning about being there, he was started to find the odd kick off times and not being able to sit with his mates all a bit trying. He had really enjoyed the trips to Old Trafford etc. but said his best away day in the top flight had been at - I think - Watford, because everyone was able to get tickets, it was a 3pm Saturday kick off, and they were able to get a mini bus from the pub which had been a regular occurrence when they were a 3rd /4th division outfit. AS I said, that was a couple of years ago, it wouldn't surprise me if he actually wanted them to get relegated now!
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Apr 5, 2020 17:11:52 GMT
Now Rooney and Lineker have waded into the argument. Looks like a concerted effort by footballers to protect their gilded status whilst trying to come over as moral individuals. They are effectively closing ranks, no real surprise there. I think we may be in for a few days of bull**** and hypocrisy. UTG!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2020 18:34:41 GMT
Now Rooney and Lineker have waded into the argument. Looks like a concerted effort by footballers to protect their gilded status whilst trying to come over as moral individuals. They are effectively closing ranks, no real surprise there. I think we may be in for a few days of bull**** and hypocrisy. UTG! Wayner does make a good point though, a 5% pay cut could 'ruin' some PL players. What planet do some of these people live on. Tell you what Rooney, how about some of those guys go drive London busses, getting key workers around the City for an annual salary of probably less than you pocket every week. Bloke's a cnut.
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Post by laughinggas on Apr 5, 2020 18:54:30 GMT
Why 30٪, is this a proper calculated figure? This is all so that everyone in the club can be paid, nothing else. I thinks it's only 4 clubs that have put non playing in a position to use the government job protection scheme. So first off it's those four clubs that should be under scrutiny, and their players asked to take,e a cut so these people can be paid. This is on the assumption that the cannot meet the wave demands!
If the premier league cannot afford to support the lower leagues, then look to raise money from players.
What charity work, they do is up to them, the players that is.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2020 19:10:20 GMT
I have to say, I'm with that unbearably cantankerous old whine Bambi, on this one.
The Premier League clubs taking taxpayer's money to pay workers very little, while paying players and their own directors obscene amounts of money are beyond contempt.
I'm not at all sure I'd like Rovers in the Premier League, at least not in its current configuration. As Uncle Eppers says, many of us value the club's culture and identity above being in the elite cartel. I hated the fourth division, and I don't want the Premier League; I'm more than happy to muddle between the second and third 'middle' divisions as our ebb and flow takes us, if we can get to keep what makes us better than the 'class' of 1982.
Premier League players could take a 100% pay cut for a whole year without genuine poverty, in fact without being reduced even to the lifestyle of the thousands of matchday and season ticket buying workers and pensioners who pay for the whole damn racket.
We'll turn this house upside down, one day, and there's even a chance that the current emergency may be the antecedent that makes this sooner.
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