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Post by Curly Wurly on Feb 29, 2020 7:22:33 GMT
I did chuckle at that Shoveler!. If fans voted with their feet under Coughlan, I do wonder what the incentive is to go today?, two horrendously out of form clubs with nothing to play for. And 4-3-3 Experimental again. And the weather is atrocious as well!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 7:31:55 GMT
Should he have said "no way are we going to score any goals"? What do you think he should have said ? Well. No, no way are going to score any goals. There's something wrong in the changing room, and I just don't see this bunch of lads under my management scoring, let alone winning, while I persevere asking players recruited for 3-5-2 hoofball to play a 4-3-3 tippitappy, which let's be honest, has been tried at this football club by greater managers than me already. Moreover, I've never managed at this level before, I'm principally a coach, and nobody knows whether I've got it in me, least of all me. I looked at that Gas Guzzler today, and duck me if they don't half of them think me no good at all. The goodwill only lasts so long, and you've got to ask yourself how long I can get away with only having won a single game. Still, hopefully my predecessor was so very boring and so very unlikeable that my own efforts, however misguided, may be appreciated enough for them to give this barmy experiment of mine until next season. God knows I've blown this one. For now, we're bloody useless, and it'll take some time to sort this mess out. Don't expect goals or wins from me, but come down anyway because my heart's in the right place. I'm in. I knew he was close to cracking up but i never expected him to come out with that stuff ha ha.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 9:45:03 GMT
You've moved from using words such as 'perks' and 'underhand activity' to trying to hide behind things that the FC may have said. You just sound like a stirrer who has bottled it when called out. I've never belittled intentions to improve any aspect of Rovers, with the Bing-Bong Boxes it's the quality of the hardware and the implementation that I moan on endlessly about, mainly because it's a wasted opportunity. But I'm glad that you are happy with an unreliable system that doesn't capture customer data. Bamber, you of all people accusing me of being a stirrer. Over 7,000 posts and it is difficult to remember any positive suggestion that you have made about anything.
I don't see how you have 'called me out'. I stand by the assertion that there have been too many people taking advantage of the club for too many years through 'perks' and many of these have been removed under the current regime.
Where did I say that I was happy with an unreliable system? If you actually read my words, I consistently said the card readers were a deterrent to underhand activity. Could they be improved? Yes, like a lot of things at the club, but they are an improvement on what was in place previously, in my opinion.
You neglected to say who I was being spiteful or vindictive to.
You still haven't clarified your meaning by repeatedly calling me limp wristed.
Would you like to answer those two points? And there you go, you've done it again. You've asserted that people have taken advantage of the club, so come on, name names. You do understand how the burden of proof works, don't you? In your case, it seems that how it works is, make an accusation, get challenged, attempt to turn the question on the person who exposes you as someone who clearly wants to make a point but doesn't have the balls to say what's on their mind. The very definition of limp wristed. I have no idea who your spite is directed towards, why don't you grow a backbone and tell us?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 10:36:19 GMT
Bamber, you of all people accusing me of being a stirrer. Over 7,000 posts and it is difficult to remember any positive suggestion that you have made about anything.
I don't see how you have 'called me out'. I stand by the assertion that there have been too many people taking advantage of the club for too many years through 'perks' and many of these have been removed under the current regime.
Where did I say that I was happy with an unreliable system? If you actually read my words, I consistently said the card readers were a deterrent to underhand activity. Could they be improved? Yes, like a lot of things at the club, but they are an improvement on what was in place previously, in my opinion.
You neglected to say who I was being spiteful or vindictive to.
You still haven't clarified your meaning by repeatedly calling me limp wristed.
Would you like to answer those two points? And there you go, you've done it again. You've asserted that people have taken advantage of the club, so come on, name names. You do understand how the burden of proof works, don't you? In your case, it seems that how it works is, make an accusation, get challenged, attempt to turn the question on the person who exposes you as someone who clearly wants to make a point but doesn't have the balls to say what's on their mind. The very definition of limp wristed. I have no idea who your spite is directed towards, why don't you grow a backbone and tell us? How about this, instead of this relentless "point scoring" and determination to have the last word. That A) Accepting cash at a turnstile is the least efficient and least secure method of collecting entrance fees. B) Almost any system is better than that. C) To install a system that 1: Recognises the validity of a card holder 2: Collects data on that cardholder when attending the stadium 3: That interfaces with a Comms database that can target individual card holders Would require a significant investment in hardware, software, ongoing maintenance and, not least, capital investment. Rather than Gorringe getting this wrong, perhaps he did not have the budget. So he made the decision to best secure the cash (teething problems not withstanding). Fair enough.
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Post by lostinspace on Feb 29, 2020 10:41:24 GMT
my take on it is that , down the years from Eastville through Twerton and at The Mem , there were always whispers of some on the gate not "being totally honest" i am not in a position to name anyone as i would not know who these were or if it actually happened, all whispers, but at the start of this implication of moneyless turnstiles it was mentioned it was to help eliminate any such practice ,
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 11:19:27 GMT
And there you go, you've done it again. You've asserted that people have taken advantage of the club, so come on, name names. You do understand how the burden of proof works, don't you? In your case, it seems that how it works is, make an accusation, get challenged, attempt to turn the question on the person who exposes you as someone who clearly wants to make a point but doesn't have the balls to say what's on their mind. The very definition of limp wristed. I have no idea who your spite is directed towards, why don't you grow a backbone and tell us? How about this, instead of this relentless "point scoring" and determination to have the last word. That A) Accepting cash at a turnstile is the least efficient and least secure method of collecting entrance fees. B) Almost any system is better than that. C) To install a system that 1: Recognises the validity of a card holder 2: Collects data on that cardholder when attending the stadium 3: That interfaces with a Comms database that can target individual card holders Would require a significant investment in hardware, software, ongoing maintenance and, not least, capital investment. Rather than Gorringe getting this wrong, perhaps he did not have the budget. So he made the decision to best secure the cash (teething problems not withstanding). Fair enough. Nope. If all we've achieved is to remove some alleged shenanigans with regard to ticket use and cash handling, that could have been achieved in the same way as cash tills are monitored at retail outlets, a simple camera in each booth. Those are surprisingly effective. I'm not even convinced that the system that we have is 'intelligent' enough to recognise if the same ticket were to be used twice to gain entry to one event, so anybody duplicitous enough to come up with that Machiavellian plot that someone mentioned earlier about pretending to lose your season ticket booklet, could probably find a way around the Bing Bong boxes as well. Add to that the fact that there are now more often queues after games start, poor stewards getting roped in to taking cash off of people in the car park on at least 1 occasion, KP thinks more than once, the boxes break, and this new system is a bit naff. You'll understand this principle, it's the 90/10 thing. We've done 90% of the work but only got 10% of the benefit. Maybe Tom didn't know what he was buying, maybe Tom didn't do requirements elicitation or procurement, but he would have known what system was proposed, should have researched it and told the owners that it wasn't good enough and to wait, add a bit more money and install something that does the job properly. Still to this day, you go to the cricket ground and as long as the place isn't heaving they try to find out who you are when selling you a ticket, Rovers don't. It's crazy frustrating watching us being run so badly. As I always try to remind people, this is nothing whatsoever to do with the shop staff, they are the one constant good thing about a visit to The Mem, always professional, always remember your name, always do their very best to help, we are lucky to have those girls. Tom did have an assistant I believe whose job it was to attempt to rationalise communication databases, so shouldn't we want every customer interaction recorded? 90/10. This isn't exactly cutting edge stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 12:12:44 GMT
How about this, instead of this relentless "point scoring" and determination to have the last word. That A) Accepting cash at a turnstile is the least efficient and least secure method of collecting entrance fees. B) Almost any system is better than that. C) To install a system that 1: Recognises the validity of a card holder 2: Collects data on that cardholder when attending the stadium 3: That interfaces with a Comms database that can target individual card holders Would require a significant investment in hardware, software, ongoing maintenance and, not least, capital investment. Rather than Gorringe getting this wrong, perhaps he did not have the budget. So he made the decision to best secure the cash (teething problems not withstanding). Fair enough. Nope. If all we've achieved is to remove some alleged shenanigans with regard to ticket use and cash handling, that could have been achieved in the same way as cash tills are monitored at retail outlets, a simple camera in each booth. Those are surprisingly effective. I'm not even convinced that the system that we have is 'intelligent' enough to recognise if the same ticket were to be used twice to gain entry to one event, so anybody duplicitous enough to come up with that Machiavellian plot that someone mentioned earlier about pretending to lose your season ticket booklet, could probably find a way around the Bing Bong boxes as well. Add to that the fact that there are now more often queues after games start, poor stewards getting roped in to taking cash off of people in the car park on at least 1 occasion, KP thinks more than once, the boxes break, and this new system is a bit naff. You'll understand this principle, it's the 90/10 thing. We've done 90% of the work but only got 10% of the benefit. Maybe Tom didn't know what he was buying, maybe Tom didn't do requirements elicitation or procurement, but he would have known what system was proposed, should have researched it and told the owners that it wasn't good enough and to wait, add a bit more money and install something that does the job properly. Still to this day, you go to the cricket ground and as long as the place isn't heaving they try to find out who you are when selling you a ticket, Rovers don't. It's crazy frustrating watching us being run so badly. As I always try to remind people, this is nothing whatsoever to do with the shop staff, they are the one constant good thing about a visit to The Mem, always professional, always remember your name, always do their very best to help, we are lucky to have those girls. Tom did have an assistant I believe whose job it was to attempt to rationalise communication databases, so shouldn't we want every customer interaction recorded? 90/10. This isn't exactly cutting edge stuff. So you have a camera in the booth. It shows cash being handed over. So what? What happens at "cashing up" Who reconciles the cash to attendance, and how? What are the banking costs (along side the resource cost) of doing it this way. Just on this point alone, pre paid is better, and debit / credit card sales only (if it was up to me) Btw, in a retail environment, the final adjudication on the veracity of the epos system is the stock take. That is not cross check that is available in an event scenario with pay at the gate
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 29, 2020 12:25:37 GMT
Garner claiming in today's pre-match interview he can see the goals coming soon, this after we didn't even force the Sunderland goalie to make a single save of note, you do have wonder to what game Garner's actually watching. Our only hope tomorrow is Shrewsbury are in even worse form than us at the moment. The only thing left for the deluded is hope. The facts are easily ignored. I see that we've been a basket case for many matches and he keeps making the same kind of mistakes. But hey, go 4-3-3 because he got the badges and maybe it'll work after 16 matches, 3 managers and 5 years.....yep I can certainly see something coming alright. Exactly as I see it. I’ve seen it written that insanity is doing exactly the same thing over and over, expecting a different outcome. I’m no football statto but I bet that @chewbacca would know of any other tier 3 clubs that use the same formation. You know, I know this will sound daft but I wish I had been given such a prolonged period of grace when I had my family die. I find myself feeling that I could have really used that kind of patience, in those 3 horrific years. I feel rough today so have just doubled up on pain meds and will make a decision by 13:00 on whether to go or not.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 12:26:52 GMT
Nope. If all we've achieved is to remove some alleged shenanigans with regard to ticket use and cash handling, that could have been achieved in the same way as cash tills are monitored at retail outlets, a simple camera in each booth. Those are surprisingly effective. I'm not even convinced that the system that we have is 'intelligent' enough to recognise if the same ticket were to be used twice to gain entry to one event, so anybody duplicitous enough to come up with that Machiavellian plot that someone mentioned earlier about pretending to lose your season ticket booklet, could probably find a way around the Bing Bong boxes as well. Add to that the fact that there are now more often queues after games start, poor stewards getting roped in to taking cash off of people in the car park on at least 1 occasion, KP thinks more than once, the boxes break, and this new system is a bit naff. You'll understand this principle, it's the 90/10 thing. We've done 90% of the work but only got 10% of the benefit. Maybe Tom didn't know what he was buying, maybe Tom didn't do requirements elicitation or procurement, but he would have known what system was proposed, should have researched it and told the owners that it wasn't good enough and to wait, add a bit more money and install something that does the job properly. Still to this day, you go to the cricket ground and as long as the place isn't heaving they try to find out who you are when selling you a ticket, Rovers don't. It's crazy frustrating watching us being run so badly. As I always try to remind people, this is nothing whatsoever to do with the shop staff, they are the one constant good thing about a visit to The Mem, always professional, always remember your name, always do their very best to help, we are lucky to have those girls. Tom did have an assistant I believe whose job it was to attempt to rationalise communication databases, so shouldn't we want every customer interaction recorded? 90/10. This isn't exactly cutting edge stuff. So you have a camera in the booth. It shows cash being handed over. So what? What happens at "cashing up" Who reconciles the cash to attendance, and how? What are the banking costs (along side the resource cost) of doing it this way. Just on this point alone, pre paid is better, and debit / credit card sales only (if it was up to me) Btw, in a retail environment, the final adjudication on the veracity of the epos system is the stock take. That is not cross check that is available in an event scenario with pay at the gate Spend some time looking in to how these cameras work in cash handling retail outlets, places like, for example, Tesco, they are highly effective. Not sure where you are going with the point about banking costs, the same people who would be paying cash at the turnstile are presently paying cash at the ticket office, but that's not what I'm arguing for, that was just addressing a point that was made. I'm not arguing for pay at the gate, I wanted card readers 15 years ago, but I wanted a better system than this, and a fully integrated one.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 12:37:08 GMT
Card readers at the gates would certainly be better than winning one match all year.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 12:57:32 GMT
So you have a camera in the booth. It shows cash being handed over. So what? What happens at "cashing up" Who reconciles the cash to attendance, and how? What are the banking costs (along side the resource cost) of doing it this way. Just on this point alone, pre paid is better, and debit / credit card sales only (if it was up to me) Btw, in a retail environment, the final adjudication on the veracity of the epos system is the stock take. That is not cross check that is available in an event scenario with pay at the gate Spend some time looking in to how these cameras work in cash handling retail outlets, places like, for example, Tesco, they are highly effective. Not sure where you are going with the point about banking costs, the same people who would be paying cash at the turnstile are presently paying cash at the ticket office, but that's not what I'm arguing for, that was just addressing a point that was made. I'm not arguing for pay at the gate, I wanted card readers 15 years ago, but I wanted a better system than this, and a fully integrated one. Don't need to review them, I have in a previous life installed them. As indeed I commissioned a ticket barrier system at a public entertainment venue. The things, it's easy to mock but you are not, I presume, aware of the budget. On banking costs, have you looked at how much the banks charge for business transactions, including deposits? Even before that, you have security and personnel costs in dealing with cash.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 13:19:28 GMT
4-3-3 has been around for years and years its hardly experimental! All league managers have to have their coaching badges or they are not allowed to manage a football league team.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 13:29:14 GMT
Spend some time looking in to how these cameras work in cash handling retail outlets, places like, for example, Tesco, they are highly effective. Not sure where you are going with the point about banking costs, the same people who would be paying cash at the turnstile are presently paying cash at the ticket office, but that's not what I'm arguing for, that was just addressing a point that was made. I'm not arguing for pay at the gate, I wanted card readers 15 years ago, but I wanted a better system than this, and a fully integrated one. Don't need to review them, I have in a previous life installed them. As indeed I commissioned a ticket barrier system at a public entertainment venue. The things, it's easy to mock but you are not, I presume, aware of the budget. On banking costs, have you looked at how much the banks charge for business transactions, including deposits? Even before that, you have security and personnel costs in dealing with cash. Ah, OK, so you know better than Tesco, fair enough. Who has mocked anybody? All I've questioned is whether the 'investment' was a wise one. To your last point, please see my previous reply, I'm no arguing for more people to pay cash, that's not even the topic of discussion. I do appreciate that Tom has moved some ticket purchases that may have been paid in cash towards the club's website, but as we don't and have never captured patterns of customer behaviour, we'll not be able to even guess at how much cash handling that has saved, but there is a charge for processing card receipts also, and, as previously mentioned, the ticket office is still accepting cash for match day tickets, as is the club shop, so I don't understand your point at all.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 13:32:55 GMT
Card readers at the gates would certainly be better than winning one match all year. Oldie actually reading what's written before replying would be good also. 4-0 win coming up this afternoon. Duck in puddle near goalmouth feasting on soggy cereal causes consternation.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 13:57:43 GMT
Don't need to review them, I have in a previous life installed them. As indeed I commissioned a ticket barrier system at a public entertainment venue. The things, it's easy to mock but you are not, I presume, aware of the budget. On banking costs, have you looked at how much the banks charge for business transactions, including deposits? Even before that, you have security and personnel costs in dealing with cash. Ah, OK, so you know better than Tesco, fair enough. Who has mocked anybody? All I've questioned is whether the 'investment' was a wise one. To your last point, please see my previous reply, I'm no arguing for more people to pay cash, that's not even the topic of discussion. I do appreciate that Tom has moved some ticket purchases that may have been paid in cash towards the club's website, but as we don't and have never captured patterns of customer behaviour, we'll not be able to even guess at how much cash handling that has saved, but there is a charge for processing card receipts also, and, as previously mentioned, the ticket office is still accepting cash for match day tickets, as is the club shop, so I don't understand your point at all. There you go again, needling for the sake of it. Never said I know better than Tesco but standing looking at their camera system will not tell me much, will it. Cash control. Shop. Cross checked to stock take Ticket Office. Crossed checked to the tickets issued Next
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 14:11:59 GMT
Ah, OK, so you know better than Tesco, fair enough. Who has mocked anybody? All I've questioned is whether the 'investment' was a wise one. To your last point, please see my previous reply, I'm no arguing for more people to pay cash, that's not even the topic of discussion. I do appreciate that Tom has moved some ticket purchases that may have been paid in cash towards the club's website, but as we don't and have never captured patterns of customer behaviour, we'll not be able to even guess at how much cash handling that has saved, but there is a charge for processing card receipts also, and, as previously mentioned, the ticket office is still accepting cash for match day tickets, as is the club shop, so I don't understand your point at all. There you go again, needling for the sake of it. Never said I know better than Tesco but standing looking at their camera system will not tell me much, will it. Cash control. Shop. Cross checked to stock take Ticket Office. Crossed checked to the tickets issued Next I think we are talking at cross purposes, hence I think you are being obtuse, you think I'm being borderline aggressive when discussion would be better? You are, I think, talking about stock control, I'm still stuck on the issue of suggested shenanigans in the turnstile booths, so what I'm saying is that if a simple camera is to monitor cash handling activity at retail outlets, casinos, pubs, clubs, Bureau de change etc etc, then, if this is the problem, which I don't know to be the case, then cameras may have provided a cost effective solution. We are still handling cash, so I don't understand your point about banking costs. For what it's worth, Tesco save a fortune with those cameras, one of the biggest scams is giving too much change to an accomplice, easily recognised, if you have the footage. So yes, looking at what those cameras capture is a valuable tool and helps keep prices down for us all. And yes, that till was short when reconciled, but most criminals are in fact this stupid. Are we in agreement? I hope so.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 29, 2020 15:00:29 GMT
So you have a camera in the booth. It shows cash being handed over. So what? What happens at "cashing up" Who reconciles the cash to attendance, and how? What are the banking costs (along side the resource cost) of doing it this way. Just on this point alone, pre paid is better, and debit / credit card sales only (if it was up to me) Btw, in a retail environment, the final adjudication on the veracity of the epos system is the stock take. That is not cross check that is available in an event scenario with pay at the gate Spend some time looking in to how these cameras work in cash handling retail outlets, places like, for example, Tesco, they are highly effective. Not sure where you are going with the point about banking costs, the same people who would be paying cash at the turnstile are presently paying cash at the ticket office, but that's not what I'm arguing for, that was just addressing a point that was made. I'm not arguing for pay at the gate, I wanted card readers 15 years ago, but I wanted a better system than this, and a fully integrated one. There is also an inherent flaw in this because the club has said it is working towards having all tickets purchased prior to the game but, by buying online, you have a service charge that is placed by the club plus postage. The club are being daft here as you pay more for your ticket in purchasing online and so, of course, many will not want to pay the circa £1:50 plus postage and will turn up to pay cash. I feel some sympathy for the staff of the ticket office as things can get heated over lack of change and cards not being recognised. The removal of the early bird discount was another shot in the foot, in my opinion anyway. It really is typical rovers though, isn’t it. I am by no means a person who has any axe to grind with Tom Gorringe but one would think that a club, owned by bankers, would do a much better job in this area or maybe I am being naive ?
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 29, 2020 15:06:19 GMT
Spend some time looking in to how these cameras work in cash handling retail outlets, places like, for example, Tesco, they are highly effective. Not sure where you are going with the point about banking costs, the same people who would be paying cash at the turnstile are presently paying cash at the ticket office, but that's not what I'm arguing for, that was just addressing a point that was made. I'm not arguing for pay at the gate, I wanted card readers 15 years ago, but I wanted a better system than this, and a fully integrated one. Don't need to review them, I have in a previous life installed them. As indeed I commissioned a ticket barrier system at a public entertainment venue. The things, it's easy to mock but you are not, I presume, aware of the budget. On banking costs, have you looked at how much the banks charge for business transactions, including deposits? Even before that, you have security and personnel costs in dealing with cash. Hi again, As far as I know, I have only ever had any banking charges when I had business accounts. I never go into debt so don’t get any charges at all, on any transactions. You will obviously be aware the credit cards are no longer allowed to charge you for transactions made my card but it’s now up to each outlet to decide if they charge you or not and Rovers do. At best, it’s been a very poor attempt at transition to cashless matches, at worst, it’s a cluster fxxx. EDIT Sorry, you did say business charges & I didn’t take that into account. My apologies
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 19:55:20 GMT
How are Torquay doing?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 20:14:15 GMT
Won 2-0 today Doc but they have struggled recently with injuries. Gary Warren (why didn't Trolls sign him) joined them on loan from Exeter City and helped them improve results before being recalled.
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