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Post by a more piratey game on Aug 21, 2021 0:26:57 GMT
If things on here are to be believed, it seems that the SC leadership and the PC leadership have never liked the AQ regime (and they were at one point in cahoots with Landing Lights Hamer to have the club sold on)
The apparent extent of the dislike I find very surprising. It seems enormously more than is necessary or reasonable as a reaction to losing what they might have perceived as personal influence at the club
I don't like Wael's appointment of Joeybag at all, but otherwise he seems a very likable and committed bloke
Is there any more to it, or am I (or maybe are we) missing anything?
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bloogas
Joined: July 2016
Posts: 1,095 
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Post by bloogas on Aug 21, 2021 6:00:01 GMT
As you say, what is the problem. Is there an elephant of some kind in the room?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2021 7:35:40 GMT
Jim Chappell made his dislike of Wael clear the moment he arrived with his "Carried Shoulder High" rant.
I can only guess as Fanatical has never told us the entire story just little snippets like "Great news in October, we get our club back" but then hid behind, "I can't tell you, confidentiality agreements in place". A division formed the same time between the PC and Wael. This may have been because Hani was desperate to sell the club and the PC liked that option so backed those trying to buy the club at the time. It would appear that Wael dug his heels in and said "I'm not going anywhere" and even went as far as trying to sabotage the deal by prematurely revealing The Fruit Market plans which if the rumours are true breached another confidentiality agreement.
To try to force the club to be sold to the PC's preferred bidders Masters was used and the SC was dragged into the battle which was lost when Wael upped his game and took over the club himself. As he told us proudly, "It's my club now."
The PC and the SC must have then resorted to dirty tactics by trying to slander Wael with allegations of wrong doings with an underage child and financial irregularities. All falsely as it turns out so Wael has served his revenge cold and has dispensed with the services of the SC and taken away the only benefit the PC had, their meeting room.
All guesswork and if anybody from the PC or SC want to finally tell us the truth the whole truth etc then I stand to be corrected.
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Post by The Concept on Aug 21, 2021 8:11:29 GMT
I know nothing, but coming from a similar angle to PHE...
Perhaps the SC were caught up in a boardroom power struggle.
Perhaps they had their heads turned, were influenced and used by people, as other organisations may have been (such as PC and FFS members etc.), becoming a pawn.
Specifics...
Financial management - Were the SC concerns any different to concerns raised by many on the forums about the annual losses and growing debt? This was all before Wael's father sadly died, the debt reduced, and WAQ & MS acknowledged the budget loss and told us in summer 2020 that it was being addressed.
Safeguarding - Were the correct actions taken? If someone comes to you with allegations do you report them or sweep them under the carpet?
p.s. Talking of problems, what is Wael's / the BoD's problem with the SC running the 50/50 draw? Do they think they can do it better, raise more money, or is it simply to take away one of the main responsibilities the SC had, and clip their wings?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2021 8:34:32 GMT
What could a bunch of white, bitter, cynical, wizened old farts, who no longer have a shred of influence or importance, possibly have against a young, educated, Jordanian called Wael Al-Qadi?
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Aug 21, 2021 9:12:20 GMT
I see it as a classic denial and non movement with the times.
We have a young, idealistic, monied and committed ownership that does not need to take direction or advice from PC or SC, and they both know it.
It's long been my thought that most within PC and SC organisations have no doubt love for the club, but their individual roles also acts as an ego trip or feeling of exclusivity based on long ago accomplishments.....which, whilst is charming in it's nature, and should be acknowledged, is the very thing that prevents others from getting involved and the little cliques appear.
I also think that both organisations have an inflated thought on their power and influence within the club, which has led to a struggle of sorts with Rovers hierarchy.
In comes young Wael with some radical thoughts, and it doesn't fit in with fuddy duddy outfits that have existed on nepotism to survive. Both independent organisations have dealt with it in a childish way, some bullying, in denial of their predicament and are fast on the way to making themselves obsolete.
They've only got themselves to blame.
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Post by a more piratey game on Aug 21, 2021 10:48:41 GMT
So,reading the above, it seems that that don't have a particular issue with Wael as such (so maybe nor should we)
It's more an accumulation of mis-managed circumstances that has led to a situation where something needs to break
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2021 10:52:19 GMT
Jim Chappell made his dislike of Wael clear the moment he arrived with his "Carried Shoulder High" rant. Yes and that was quite soon after the takeover wasn't it, and I recall Hamer speaking out against the SC comments. So the issues must have started quite quickly. Those comments were bizarre, there was reference to "Nicks achievement too" or something similar, which was strange language to use but perhaps an indicator of the previous board relationship. There was also a references I recall about the hard working members selling tickets (agreed) meaning they often missed the beginning of matches and as a result deserved to see an open bus top tour. I may not have the exact wording right but that's my recollection. Absolutely agree the members are hard working and deserve enormous thanks and respect, but the comments from the SC reeked of self entitlement from their leadership. To this day I have still to find anyone who thinks we should have had an open bus tour - the thought never even entered my mind at he time. |
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Post by irenestoyboy on Aug 21, 2021 11:00:57 GMT
The truth is we don’t know why exactly and as Wael has said himself in the letter, neither does he.
If you thought there was ever an opportunity to say it, it would have been after they reported him for fit and proper ownership to the FA, and regardless of what the FA said, explained their reasons for doing so to the members of the SC at least, given that the SC is meant to be a fans collective.
But they haven’t, which is why it smacks of a personal vendetta from a very small minority who are abusing their position inside a club, which according to their own constitution is meant to support Bristol Rovers!
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Angas
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,067
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Post by Angas on Aug 21, 2021 11:35:58 GMT
Jim Chappell made his dislike of Wael clear the moment he arrived with his "Carried Shoulder High" rant. Yes and that was quite soon after the takeover wasn't it, and I recall Hamer speaking out against the SC comments. So the issues must have started quite quickly. Those comments were bizarre, there was reference to "Nicks achievement too" or something similar, which was strange language to use but perhaps an indicator of the previous board relationship. There was also a references I recall about the hard working members selling tickets (agreed) meaning they often missed the beginning of matches and as a result deserved to see an open bus top tour. I may not have the exact wording right but that's my recollection. Absolutely agree the members are hard working and deserve enormous thanks and respect, but the comments from the SC reeked of self entitlement from their leadership. To this day I have still to find anyone who thinks we should have had an open bus tour - the thought never even entered my mind at he time. |
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Post by rideintothesun on Aug 21, 2021 12:06:19 GMT
It could well the case that the problem isn't Wael strictly speaking, but rather his approach and attitude to the club, which can be best described as 'hands off'. This then leaves Starnes running the club, at least in theory.
However this raises the question of whether Starnes is also similarly hands off - everything that I've seen and heard from him suggests that he is. I get this enormous sense of disinterest and disengagement from him that I don't get from Wael. Others will undoubtedly point to that notorious interview with GT, and note that in his case it is difficult to tell where disinterest ends and incompetence begins.
This has created a vaccum that has been filled - albeit hopefully temporarily - by B*****'s gargantuan ego and tedious persona. We are now inseparable and our fates conjointed. We are doomed to sink together.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,263
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Post by kingswood Polak on Aug 21, 2021 12:09:18 GMT
I know nothing, but coming from a similar angle to PHE... Perhaps the SC were caught up in a boardroom power struggle. Perhaps they had their heads turned, were influenced and used by people, as other organisations may have been (such as PC and FFS members etc.), becoming a pawn. Specifics... Financial management - Were the SC concerns any different to concerns raised by many on the forums about the annual losses and growing debt? This was all before Wael's father sadly died, the debt reduced, and WAQ & MS acknowledged the budget loss and told us in summer 2020 that it was being addressed. Safeguarding - Were the correct actions taken? If someone comes to you with allegations do you report them or sweep them under the carpet? p.s. Talking of problems, what is Wael's / the BoD's problem with the SC running the 50/50 draw? Do they think they can do it better, raise more money, or is it simply to take away one of the main responsibilities the SC had, and clip their wings? Revenge, pure and simple revenge. It’s an awful thing in my view and if I were anything to do with the SC I’d give no monies over. Wael says the money would be welcomed but his track record of losses, well..it’s there to be seen. we have never been so split and the actions of Wael and his hiring wrong people, visions, paying off contracts etc etc are bloody awful. We many need an independent group one day. If this cannot be resolved in a gentlemanly manner then we need to hold something back in worst case scenario. If our owner cannot be civil rather than reactive then that worries me. He says he is open to a rep from the SC but the truth is he only wants one that will agree with him. He has already gone about shedding the club on longterm and good people, who served the club with loyalty and with passion. Would you hand over money to a man with such a record of appalling decision making and who wants total control ? It’s all very sad as I see it, as we lurch from pillar to post with each bad decision. if it’s revenge in the SC then what if his brother, as I understand it he was the one who pushed others to act with/for him. I really feel estranged from everything at tbe club now and losing the familiar faces, seen each home game, is a loss for me. It was all part of the match day experience |
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Post by rideintothesun on Aug 21, 2021 12:11:31 GMT
I see it as a classic denial and non movement with the times. We have a young, idealistic, monied and committed ownership that does not need to take direction or advice from PC or SC, and they both know it. It's long been my thought that most within PC and SC organisations have no doubt love for the club, but their individual roles also acts as an ego trip or feeling of exclusivity based on long ago accomplishments.....which, whilst is charming in it's nature, and should be acknowledged, is the very thing that prevents others from getting involved and the little cliques appear. I also think that both organisations have an inflated thought on their power and influence within the club, which has led to a struggle of sorts with Rovers hierarchy. In comes young Wael with some radical thoughts, and it doesn't fit in with fuddy duddy outfits that have existed on nepotism to survive. Both independent organisations have dealt with it in a childish way, some bullying, in denial of their predicament and are fast on the way to making themselves obsolete. They've only got themselves to blame. I'm not sure what was 'radical' about the club last season. Off-field, the club was an absolute shambles. I don't even it was incompetence - it was as if there was no-one there, and the club was running on auto-pilot. It wasn't that Wael was running the club badly. It was more that he and Starnes weren't running it at all. Look at the notorious statement. Did Starnes really sign off on it? I don't think he even read it. |
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,263
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Post by kingswood Polak on Aug 21, 2021 12:20:42 GMT
I see it as a classic denial and non movement with the times. We have a young, idealistic, monied and committed ownership that does not need to take direction or advice from PC or SC, and they both know it. It's long been my thought that most within PC and SC organisations have no doubt love for the club, but their individual roles also acts as an ego trip or feeling of exclusivity based on long ago accomplishments.....which, whilst is charming in it's nature, and should be acknowledged, is the very thing that prevents others from getting involved and the little cliques appear. I also think that both organisations have an inflated thought on their power and influence within the club, which has led to a struggle of sorts with Rovers hierarchy. In comes young Wael with some radical thoughts, and it doesn't fit in with fuddy duddy outfits that have existed on nepotism to survive. Both independent organisations have dealt with it in a childish way, some bullying, in denial of their predicament and are fast on the way to making themselves obsolete. They've only got themselves to blame. Those thoughts saw us plunge from 4th to relegation and lose more money by paying off contracts. An educated man does not mean he is right. How much more can be torn from us ? We are now more divided than I have ever know in my time, following Rovers. Just great eh. We are a 4th tier club not a club with even 10k attendances. I don’t even know why I respond as it’s bloody heartbreaking to see the bad decisions, one after the other and fans still thank him. Under DC, we had B2B promotions but then no investment into the most important part, the team. The owner and Tom decide to put their efforts elsewhere. Debts trebled from our previous chairman, managers got sacked, Wael had visions. Paying off managers and players. Experts coming and going, not even a peep about a new stadium. It’s like when the media concentrate on other things, to cover up the bigger issues. Angry fans, disenchanted volunteers, debts still ongoing and the row with the SC takes front stage |
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Aug 21, 2021 12:29:41 GMT
I see it as a classic denial and non movement with the times. We have a young, idealistic, monied and committed ownership that does not need to take direction or advice from PC or SC, and they both know it. It's long been my thought that most within PC and SC organisations have no doubt love for the club, but their individual roles also acts as an ego trip or feeling of exclusivity based on long ago accomplishments.....which, whilst is charming in it's nature, and should be acknowledged, is the very thing that prevents others from getting involved and the little cliques appear. I also think that both organisations have an inflated thought on their power and influence within the club, which has led to a struggle of sorts with Rovers hierarchy. In comes young Wael with some radical thoughts, and it doesn't fit in with fuddy duddy outfits that have existed on nepotism to survive. Both independent organisations have dealt with it in a childish way, some bullying, in denial of their predicament and are fast on the way to making themselves obsolete. They've only got themselves to blame. I'm not sure what was 'radical' about the club last season. Off-field, the club was an absolute shambles. I don't even it was incompetence - it was as if there was no-one there, and the club was running on auto-pilot. It wasn't that Wael was running the club badly. It was more that he and Starnes weren't running it at all. Look at the notorious statement. Did Starnes really sign off on it? I don't think he even read it. Appointing JAB is pretty radical. Ref to running of the club, when has it ever been universally acknowledged without criticism the club has been run well? |
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,165
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Post by Cheshiregas on Aug 21, 2021 12:30:51 GMT
All guesswork and if anybody from the PC or SC want to finally tell us the truth the whole truth etc then I stand to be corrected. You won't get an answer I'm afraid as current tactics are to 'hit and run'. Their past tactics of slander and false claims have now come home to roost. As I said to Swiss the other day, I would have more respect for their point of view if they explained their grievances. As they don't, won't or can't leads me to believe it is either driven by spite or bitterness which is very sad for them as neither are a good trait to have. I really do feel very sorry for them. |
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,165
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Post by Cheshiregas on Aug 21, 2021 12:33:25 GMT
I see it as a classic denial and non movement with the times. We have a young, idealistic, monied and committed ownership that does not need to take direction or advice from PC or SC, and they both know it. It's long been my thought that most within PC and SC organisations have no doubt love for the club, but their individual roles also acts as an ego trip or feeling of exclusivity based on long ago accomplishments.....which, whilst is charming in it's nature, and should be acknowledged, is the very thing that prevents others from getting involved and the little cliques appear. I also think that both organisations have an inflated thought on their power and influence within the club, which has led to a struggle of sorts with Rovers hierarchy. In comes young Wael with some radical thoughts, and it doesn't fit in with fuddy duddy outfits that have existed on nepotism to survive. Both independent organisations have dealt with it in a childish way, some bullying, in denial of their predicament and are fast on the way to making themselves obsolete. They've only got themselves to blame. I'm not sure what was 'radical' about the club last season. Off-field, the club was an absolute shambles. I don't even it was incompetence - it was as if there was no-one there, and the club was running on auto-pilot.
It wasn't that Wael was running the club badly. It was more that he and Starnes weren't running it at all.
Look at the notorious statement. Did Starnes really sign off on it? I don't think he even read it. And would you say Higgs was better then or a model to aspire to? Conference football and a fight with Sainsbury that we were always going to lose costing the club millions? Higgs was only saved by a young manager he came close to sacking! |
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Aug 21, 2021 12:36:44 GMT
I see it as a classic denial and non movement with the times. We have a young, idealistic, monied and committed ownership that does not need to take direction or advice from PC or SC, and they both know it. It's long been my thought that most within PC and SC organisations have no doubt love for the club, but their individual roles also acts as an ego trip or feeling of exclusivity based on long ago accomplishments.....which, whilst is charming in it's nature, and should be acknowledged, is the very thing that prevents others from getting involved and the little cliques appear. I also think that both organisations have an inflated thought on their power and influence within the club, which has led to a struggle of sorts with Rovers hierarchy. In comes young Wael with some radical thoughts, and it doesn't fit in with fuddy duddy outfits that have existed on nepotism to survive. Both independent organisations have dealt with it in a childish way, some bullying, in denial of their predicament and are fast on the way to making themselves obsolete. They've only got themselves to blame. Those thoughts saw us plunge from 4th to relegation and lose more money by paying off contracts. An educated man does not mean he is right. How much more can be torn from us ? We are now more divided than I have ever know in my time, following Rovers. Just great eh. We are a 4th tier club not a club with even 10k attendances. I don’t even know why I respond as it’s bloody heartbreaking to see the bad decisions, one after the other and fans still thank him. Under DC, we had B2B promotions but then no investment into the most important part, the team. The owner and Tom decide to put their efforts elsewhere. Debts trebled from our previous chairman, managers got sacked, Wael had visions. Paying off managers and players. Experts coming and going, not even a peep about a new stadium. It’s like when the media concentrate on other things, to cover up the bigger issues. Angry fans, disenchanted volunteers, debts still ongoing and the row with the SC takes front stage That's fine, KP, but DC was only in charge because of the running of the previous regime....Higgs and co and the debacle of John Ward. You're not seriously going to suggest we were better run under previous? I'm not saying everything is fine and dandy and perfect with Wael, I'm saying there's ways to go about your business, and SC and PC haven't exactly enamoured themselves by some of their conduct. Wael gets some things right, some things wrong, but I try to support the club until I have a reason not to |
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Aug 21, 2021 12:38:47 GMT
I see it as a classic denial and non movement with the times. We have a young, idealistic, monied and committed ownership that does not need to take direction or advice from PC or SC, and they both know it. It's long been my thought that most within PC and SC organisations have no doubt love for the club, but their individual roles also acts as an ego trip or feeling of exclusivity based on long ago accomplishments.....which, whilst is charming in it's nature, and should be acknowledged, is the very thing that prevents others from getting involved and the little cliques appear. I also think that both organisations have an inflated thought on their power and influence within the club, which has led to a struggle of sorts with Rovers hierarchy. In comes young Wael with some radical thoughts, and it doesn't fit in with fuddy duddy outfits that have existed on nepotism to survive. Both independent organisations have dealt with it in a childish way, some bullying, in denial of their predicament and are fast on the way to making themselves obsolete. They've only got themselves to blame. Those thoughts saw us plunge from 4th to relegation and lose more money by paying off contracts. An educated man does not mean he is right. How much more can be torn from us ? We are now more divided than I have ever know in my time, following Rovers. Just great eh. We are a 4th tier club not a club with even 10k attendances. I don’t even know why I respond as it’s bloody heartbreaking to see the bad decisions, one after the other and fans still thank him. Under DC, we had B2B promotions but then no investment into the most important part, the team. The owner and Tom decide to put their efforts elsewhere. Debts trebled from our previous chairman, managers got sacked, Wael had visions. Paying off managers and players. Experts coming and going, not even a peep about a new stadium. It’s like when the media concentrate on other things, to cover up the bigger issues. Angry fans, disenchanted volunteers, debts still ongoing and the row with the SC takes front stage Thank goodness for your posts KP, chucking a bucket of cold over all these other posters, I thought everyone had lost their minds. In politics, what Wael is doing here is called chucking in a dead ferret. the day Wael took over was bad news. The day he moves on we let off flares to celebrate - if there is a club left. |
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,263
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Post by kingswood Polak on Aug 21, 2021 12:46:42 GMT
Those thoughts saw us plunge from 4th to relegation and lose more money by paying off contracts. An educated man does not mean he is right. How much more can be torn from us ? We are now more divided than I have ever know in my time, following Rovers. Just great eh. We are a 4th tier club not a club with even 10k attendances. I don’t even know why I respond as it’s bloody heartbreaking to see the bad decisions, one after the other and fans still thank him. Under DC, we had B2B promotions but then no investment into the most important part, the team. The owner and Tom decide to put their efforts elsewhere. Debts trebled from our previous chairman, managers got sacked, Wael had visions. Paying off managers and players. Experts coming and going, not even a peep about a new stadium. It’s like when the media concentrate on other things, to cover up the bigger issues. Angry fans, disenchanted volunteers, debts still ongoing and the row with the SC takes front stage Thank goodness for your posts KP, chucking a bucket of cold over all these other posters, I thought everyone had lost their minds. In politics, what Wael is doing here is called chucking in a dead ferret. the day Wael took over was bad news. The day he moves on we let off flares to celebrate - if there is a club left. A nice bloke he may be but, as an owner, his decisions have been diabolically bad, one after the other. I hate hearing fans argue on match days and I hate the ill feeling around the club. As Wael says, it’s my club and so I have to conclude the buck stops with him. That some are revelling in this is beyond me. Seems not just our owner holds a grudge. There should be a dignified way to sort this rather than how it’s being played our now. This really is awful, for all true Rovers fans. |
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