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Post by swissgas on Aug 23, 2021 21:48:23 GMT
I'm looking at the bigger picture over perhaps ten years. Think of all the people and organisations Rovers have fallen out with in that time which were once our friends but overnight became our enemies. And think of all the people who arrived at Rovers bringing great expectations but then inexplicably disappeared. I'm saying that the frequency with which this happens is not normal and while it's easy to gain kudos by allowing a soft target like the SC to become an enemy all it really does is cover up a fundamental flaw in that mysterious DNA. Our leaders take things too personally, and encourage fans to do the same, which is a negative strategy that has failed to the point where many Gasheads must be thinking "who are we going to fall out with next ?" Take things too personally? Got any examples swiss? Off the top of my head. Nick Higgs being personally affronted because the Gloucester Road butcher supported the Sainsburys protest so he took Rovers meat contract away without telling him. A seemingly insignificant incident but to me a sign of the bad judgement which was to come later. Wael being personally affronted by the FM developers wanting to buy Rovers without him staying aboard then rejecting the compromise offer of him staying on with a small stake and a non exec role and subsequently falling out with those involved. Perhaps this explains the later "this is my club now" statement and an illustration of where priorities lay. Many will say "who cares" or "the owner can do what he likes" or "I'd have done the same myself". But IMO these are examples of taking things personally and making a decision based on damaged pride rather than using a rational approach.
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Post by a more piratey game on Aug 23, 2021 21:57:13 GMT
Take things too personally? Got any examples swiss? Off the top of my head. Nick Higgs being personally affronted because the Gloucester Road butcher supported the Sainsburys protest so he took Rovers meat contract away without telling him. A seemingly insignificant incident but to me a sign of the bad judgement which was to come later. Wael being personally affronted by the FM developers wanting to buy Rovers without him staying aboard then rejecting the compromise offer of him staying on with a small stake and a non exec role and subsequently falling out with those involved. Perhaps this explains the later "this is my club now" statement and an illustration of where priorities lay. Many will say "who cares" or "the owner can do what he likes" or "I'd have done the same myself". But IMO these are examples of taking things personally and making a decision based on damaged pride rather than using a rational approach. Ta I suppose I don't see Wael's actions in the same way. The 'compromise' was unacceptable to his ambitions, so he put his money where his mouth is. Which seems fair enough to me The 'subsequent falling out' seems much more due to the excessive steps taken by others than to any 'overreaction' from Wael
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Post by swissgas on Aug 23, 2021 22:17:23 GMT
Off the top of my head. Nick Higgs being personally affronted because the Gloucester Road butcher supported the Sainsburys protest so he took Rovers meat contract away without telling him. A seemingly insignificant incident but to me a sign of the bad judgement which was to come later. Wael being personally affronted by the FM developers wanting to buy Rovers without him staying aboard then rejecting the compromise offer of him staying on with a small stake and a non exec role and subsequently falling out with those involved. Perhaps this explains the later "this is my club now" statement and an illustration of where priorities lay. Many will say "who cares" or "the owner can do what he likes" or "I'd have done the same myself". But IMO these are examples of taking things personally and making a decision based on damaged pride rather than using a rational approach. Ta I suppose I don't see Wael's actions in the same way. The 'compromise' was unacceptable to his ambitions, so he put his money where his mouth is. Which seems fair enough to me The 'subsequent falling out' seems much more due to the excessive steps taken by others than to any 'overreaction' from Wael What are the excessive steps taken by others ?
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Post by johnmalyckyj on Aug 23, 2021 22:19:47 GMT
I cannot understand why the SC has become fixated with the purpose of their donation. Supporters buy 50/50 tickets in the knowledge that eventually will find its' way into the football club coffers. In my time on the SC committee the football club frequently asked for money to help with cashflow. The late Jane Browne would move money around to give whatever the football club needed and sometimes when cheques were presented on the pitch the money had already gone out. We did whatever we could to support Bristol Rovers football Club.
In the aftermath of the Masters debacle I suggested that the SC should be folded but the officers have continued to dig themselves into a deeper hole as the months have rolled by. I simply do not understand how they can carry on. I worked with them, they are all genuine 100% Rovers supporters, but the game is up. How can they come back from this?
It seems that they were content to support the previous ownership come what may (relegation out of the Football League and swallowing the Sainsburys folly without a flicker of dissent), but as others have pointed out an immediate sour criticism of the current ownership in the wake of the promotion to League 1 and it was all down hill from there.
The wider fanbase are probably not interested in the politics behind all this but with club ownership developing in the way it has it is vital that fans have a voice, the European Super League was proof of that. In my view the football club should now invite nominations from the wider fanbase for a supporters director with people able to stand or vote providing that they are able to show that they have a direct connection to the club and that could include SC and PC members, season ticket holders, Helpline or members of the membership scheme. We should have a voice in the boardroom but sadly the SC is no longer the vehicle for it.
Regards
John Malyckyj
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Post by a more piratey game on Aug 23, 2021 22:20:27 GMT
Ta I suppose I don't see Wael's actions in the same way. The 'compromise' was unacceptable to his ambitions, so he put his money where his mouth is. Which seems fair enough to me The 'subsequent falling out' seems much more due to the excessive steps taken by others than to any 'overreaction' from Wael What are the excessive steps taken by others ? Safeguarding report and fit&proper report to the FA (or EFL, or whoever it was)
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Post by a more piratey game on Aug 23, 2021 22:24:34 GMT
Or were you referring to other Frooty parties, maybe?
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Post by johnmalyckyj on Aug 23, 2021 22:29:08 GMT
Take things too personally? Got any examples swiss? Off the top of my head. Nick Higgs being personally affronted because the Gloucester Road butcher supported the Sainsburys protest so he took Rovers meat contract away without telling him. A seemingly insignificant incident but to me a sign of the bad judgement which was to come later. Wael being personally affronted by the FM developers wanting to buy Rovers without him staying aboard then rejecting the compromise offer of him staying on with a small stake and a non exec role and subsequently falling out with those involved. Perhaps this explains the later "this is my club now" statement and an illustration of where priorities lay. Many will say "who cares" or "the owner can do what he likes" or "I'd have done the same myself". But IMO these are examples of taking things personally and making a decision based on damaged pride rather than using a rational approach. If that is the butcher towards the top of Gloucester Road then perhaps you should be aware that he led "Shopkeepers Against Ground Expansion" (SAGE) in 1996 when Rovers were trying to move into the Mem so it was deeply stupid to think that he wouldn't revert to type eventually. This was the happy band of business owners who predicted that Gloucester Road would become a ghost town with Rovers arrival. Rugger types were lovely, but football fans were not welcome. Regards John Malyckyj
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Post by swissgas on Aug 23, 2021 23:23:26 GMT
Off the top of my head. Nick Higgs being personally affronted because the Gloucester Road butcher supported the Sainsburys protest so he took Rovers meat contract away without telling him. A seemingly insignificant incident but to me a sign of the bad judgement which was to come later. Wael being personally affronted by the FM developers wanting to buy Rovers without him staying aboard then rejecting the compromise offer of him staying on with a small stake and a non exec role and subsequently falling out with those involved. Perhaps this explains the later "this is my club now" statement and an illustration of where priorities lay. Many will say "who cares" or "the owner can do what he likes" or "I'd have done the same myself". But IMO these are examples of taking things personally and making a decision based on damaged pride rather than using a rational approach. If that is the butcher towards the top of Gloucester Road then perhaps you should be aware that he led "Shopkeepers Against Ground Expansion" (SAGE) in 1996 when Rovers were trying to move into the Mem so it was deeply stupid to think that he wouldn't revert to type eventually. This was the happy band of business owners who predicted that Gloucester Road would become a ghost town with Rovers arrival. Rugger types were lovely, but football fans were not welcome. Regards John Malyckyj I'm not sure which one it was John but if it was that one then Rovers continued to buy meat from him long after 1996 which was presumably because he offered the best quality at the best price and that is the sensible way to do business. I'm making the point that in business you must act commercially, you may employ people you personally don't like but they do an excellent job. Or you may purchase from a supplier who actively supports the "wrong" political party but you decide it doesn't make sense to pay more for inferior goods just because someone is on-side ? And although the consensus opinion from fans both now and in Nick's time is "he pays so he can do what he likes" I don't think that has served Rovers very well. Being so detached in time and distance I'm sure you wonder why I am so active in putting forward views which are consistently unpopular. Without knowing any of you I read the 2006 agenda and my immediate thought was this is the kind of thing which is right for Rovers. And fifteen years later more and more clubs seem to be able to put together a successful mix of fans and business people without ego's obstructing progress. I've always felt we need to differentiate ourselves from Bristol City in imaginative and innovative ways. But the Nick Higgs approach was throwing money around and doing what HE wanted and I'm afraid, although it is softer and gentler, the Wael approach still revolves around throwing money about and doing what HE wants. We have tried to follow the Lansdown model but completely messed it up and it's crazy to keep doing that while desperately hoping something might change.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2021 9:47:51 GMT
Off the top of my head. Nick Higgs being personally affronted because the Gloucester Road butcher supported the Sainsburys protest so he took Rovers meat contract away without telling him. A seemingly insignificant incident but to me a sign of the bad judgement which was to come later. Wael being personally affronted by the FM developers wanting to buy Rovers without him staying aboard then rejecting the compromise offer of him staying on with a small stake and a non exec role and subsequently falling out with those involved. Perhaps this explains the later "this is my club now" statement and an illustration of where priorities lay. Many will say "who cares" or "the owner can do what he likes" or "I'd have done the same myself". But IMO these are examples of taking things personally and making a decision based on damaged pride rather than using a rational approach. If that is the butcher towards the top of Gloucester Road then perhaps you should be aware that he led "Shopkeepers Against Ground Expansion" (SAGE) in 1996 when Rovers were trying to move into the Mem so it was deeply stupid to think that he wouldn't revert to type eventually. This was the happy band of business owners who predicted that Gloucester Road would become a ghost town with Rovers arrival. Rugger types were lovely, but football fans were not welcome. Regards John Malyckyj He is a City fan and was always going to oppose everything connected with Rovers. He used to deliberately put his chalkboards across the front of Pirate Leisure next door until I put them in the back of my car and drove off with them. I too can be petty. I would be surprised if Rovers had later given him the meat contract as I always insisted that all suppliers had to support us commercially in return.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2021 10:03:32 GMT
If that is the butcher towards the top of Gloucester Road then perhaps you should be aware that he led "Shopkeepers Against Ground Expansion" (SAGE) in 1996 when Rovers were trying to move into the Mem so it was deeply stupid to think that he wouldn't revert to type eventually. This was the happy band of business owners who predicted that Gloucester Road would become a ghost town with Rovers arrival. Rugger types were lovely, but football fans were not welcome. Regards John Malyckyj I'm not sure which one it was John but if it was that one then Rovers continued to buy meat from him long after 1996 which was presumably because he offered the best quality at the best price and that is the sensible way to do business. I'm making the point that in business you must act commercially, you may employ people you personally don't like but they do an excellent job. Or you may purchase from a supplier who actively supports the "wrong" political party but you decide it doesn't make sense to pay more for inferior goods just because someone is on-side ? And although the consensus opinion from fans both now and in Nick's time is "he pays so he can do what he likes" I don't think that has served Rovers very well. Being so detached in time and distance I'm sure you wonder why I am so active in putting forward views which are consistently unpopular . Without knowing any of you I read the 2006 agenda and my immediate thought was this is the kind of thing which is right for Rovers. And fifteen years later more and more clubs seem to be able to put together a successful mix of fans and business people without ego's obstructing progress. I've always felt we need to differentiate ourselves from Bristol City in imaginative and innovative ways. But the Nick Higgs approach was throwing money around and doing what HE wanted and I'm afraid, although it is softer and gentler, the Wael approach still revolves around throwing money about and doing what HE wants. We have tried to follow the Lansdown model but completely messed it up and it's crazy to keep doing that while desperately hoping something might change. Well at least he is not being bullied any more Swiss, which is what you claimed was happening a few weeks ago. #Butchergate
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Post by johnmalyckyj on Aug 24, 2021 13:27:43 GMT
If that is the butcher towards the top of Gloucester Road then perhaps you should be aware that he led "Shopkeepers Against Ground Expansion" (SAGE) in 1996 when Rovers were trying to move into the Mem so it was deeply stupid to think that he wouldn't revert to type eventually. This was the happy band of business owners who predicted that Gloucester Road would become a ghost town with Rovers arrival. Rugger types were lovely, but football fans were not welcome. Regards John Malyckyj He is a City fan and was always going to oppose everything connected with Rovers. He used to deliberately put his chalkboards across the front of Pirate Leisure next door until I put them in the back of my car and drove off with them. I too can be petty. I would be surprised if Rovers had later given him the meat contract as I always insisted that all suppliers had to support us commercially in return. I was well aware of that because he told me when I went to speak to him in August 1996..... I just felt it wasn't relevant to the discussion.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2021 13:41:18 GMT
He is a City fan and was always going to oppose everything connected with Rovers. He used to deliberately put his chalkboards across the front of Pirate Leisure next door until I put them in the back of my car and drove off with them. I too can be petty. I would be surprised if Rovers had later given him the meat contract as I always insisted that all suppliers had to support us commercially in return. I was well aware of that because he told me when I went to speak to him in August 1996..... I just felt it wasn't relevant to the discussion. It was relevant to how he objected to everything Rovers including ignoring the polite requests from the staff at Pirate Leisure to stop being an arsehole.
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Post by swissgas on Aug 24, 2021 15:06:07 GMT
I'm not sure which one it was John but if it was that one then Rovers continued to buy meat from him long after 1996 which was presumably because he offered the best quality at the best price and that is the sensible way to do business. I'm making the point that in business you must act commercially, you may employ people you personally don't like but they do an excellent job. Or you may purchase from a supplier who actively supports the "wrong" political party but you decide it doesn't make sense to pay more for inferior goods just because someone is on-side ? And although the consensus opinion from fans both now and in Nick's time is "he pays so he can do what he likes" I don't think that has served Rovers very well. Being so detached in time and distance I'm sure you wonder why I am so active in putting forward views which are consistently unpopular . Without knowing any of you I read the 2006 agenda and my immediate thought was this is the kind of thing which is right for Rovers. And fifteen years later more and more clubs seem to be able to put together a successful mix of fans and business people without ego's obstructing progress. I've always felt we need to differentiate ourselves from Bristol City in imaginative and innovative ways. But the Nick Higgs approach was throwing money around and doing what HE wanted and I'm afraid, although it is softer and gentler, the Wael approach still revolves around throwing money about and doing what HE wants. We have tried to follow the Lansdown model but completely messed it up and it's crazy to keep doing that while desperately hoping something might change. Well at least he is not being bullied any more Swiss, which is what you claimed was happening a few weeks ago. #Butchergate I've heard that on Saturday he was the picture of docility as he sat next to the loud mouthed heavy who now controls who we sign and who we release. It's quite often the case that those who run with the gang and get a kick out of mixing with the hard men are actually being bullied themselves.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2021 16:00:41 GMT
Well at least he is not being bullied any more Swiss, which is what you claimed was happening a few weeks ago. #Butchergate I've heard that on Saturday he was the picture of docility as he sat next to the loud mouthed heavy who now controls who we sign and who we release. It's quite often the case that those who run with the gang and get a kick out of mixing with the hard men are actually being bullied themselves. Despite being spotted talking to Wael on Saturday I would like to declare that Swiss is not referring to me in this description although there is an uncanny similarity.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2021 17:37:41 GMT
I've heard that on Saturday he was the picture of docility as he sat next to the loud mouthed heavy who now controls who we sign and who we release. It's quite often the case that those who run with the gang and get a kick out of mixing with the hard men are actually being bullied themselves. Despite being spotted talking to Wael on Saturday I would like to declare that Swiss is not referring to me in this description although there is an uncanny similarity. Haha. You're about as intimidating as an ice pop. 😁
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Post by alftupper on Aug 24, 2021 18:22:31 GMT
If that is the butcher towards the top of Gloucester Road then perhaps you should be aware that he led "Shopkeepers Against Ground Expansion" (SAGE) in 1996 when Rovers were trying to move into the Mem so it was deeply stupid to think that he wouldn't revert to type eventually. This was the happy band of business owners who predicted that Gloucester Road would become a ghost town with Rovers arrival. Rugger types were lovely, but football fans were not welcome. Regards John Malyckyj He is a City fan and was always going to oppose everything connected with Rovers. He used to deliberately put his chalkboards across the front of Pirate Leisure next door until I put them in the back of my car and drove off with them. I laughed my bollocks off, when I read this. I doff my cap to you, Sir.
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Post by irenestoyboy on Aug 24, 2021 19:42:43 GMT
If that is the butcher towards the top of Gloucester Road then perhaps you should be aware that he led "Shopkeepers Against Ground Expansion" (SAGE) in 1996 when Rovers were trying to move into the Mem so it was deeply stupid to think that he wouldn't revert to type eventually. This was the happy band of business owners who predicted that Gloucester Road would become a ghost town with Rovers arrival. Rugger types were lovely, but football fans were not welcome. Regards John Malyckyj He is a City fan and was always going to oppose everything connected with Rovers. He used to deliberately put his chalkboards across the front of Pirate Leisure next door until I put them in the back of my car and drove off with them. I too can be petty. I would be surprised if Rovers had later given him the meat contract as I always insisted that all suppliers had to support us commercially in return. Brilliant!!!
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Post by droitwichgas on Aug 24, 2021 20:07:01 GMT
Take things too personally? Got any examples swiss? Off the top of my head. Nick Higgs being personally affronted because the Gloucester Road butcher supported the Sainsburys protest so he took Rovers meat contract away without telling him. A seemingly insignificant incident but to me a sign of the bad judgement which was to come later. Wael being personally affronted by the FM developers wanting to buy Rovers without him staying aboard then rejecting the compromise offer of him staying on with a small stake and a non exec role and subsequently falling out with those involved. Perhaps this explains the later "this is my club now" statement and an illustration of where priorities lay.
Many will say "who cares" or "the owner can do what he likes" or "I'd have done the same myself". But IMO these are examples of taking things personally and making a decision based on damaged pride rather than using a rational approach. Wouldn't most of us also be similar affronted if we'd save Rovers from admin but was then being told a few years later that we could only continue in a non exec role? However was advising the developers should have told them they needed to keep Wael on board but to try and water down is 100% control of the decision making.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2021 20:21:39 GMT
Despite being spotted talking to Wael on Saturday I would like to declare that Swiss is not referring to me in this description although there is an uncanny similarity. Haha. You're about as intimidating as an ice pop. 😁 Thank you, I thought loud mouthed heavy was apt but I prefer your description Doc 😂
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Post by a more piratey game on Aug 24, 2021 20:25:32 GMT
Haha. You're about as intimidating as an ice pop. 😁 Thank you, I thought loud mouthed heavy was apt but I prefer your description Doc 😂 Surely that should read 'ice pop Pop'? 'pop pop' sounds really unintimidating
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