Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2017 13:01:20 GMT
They put out statements making reference to questions being asked on the internet. But, to be more specific, Wael was asked directly about the charge, his reply sounded like a politician trying desperately to wriggle out of a corner, it was horrible to witness. Anyway, my reply was a direct response to an instruction to 'pipe down' on this forum. Hope that's OK with you and doesn't get you all anxious and looking under the sofa again for today's HA To be honest, I think it's a healthy dose of reality. The club is losing money hand over fist, what do you expect them to do? The club will run out of money sometime in early 2019. What then? It's a good question. Where is the money going? How did we lose £1.6m against a backdrop of half decent attendances and full hospitality areas/ advertising boards / good merchandise sales etc etc?
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basel
Joined: May 2014
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Post by basel on Oct 18, 2017 13:10:56 GMT
Like many others last night,i shook Waels hand and was happy to do so. I simply said "thank you Wael" and meant it. He is brilliant for the Rovers.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Oct 18, 2017 13:41:47 GMT
and have you asked the owner such questions ? They put out statements making reference to questions being asked on the internet. But, to be more specific, Wael was asked directly about the charge, his reply sounded like a politician trying desperately to wriggle out of a corner, it was horrible to witness. Anyway, my reply was a direct response to an instruction to 'pipe down' on this forum. Hope that's OK with you and doesn't get you all anxious and looking under the sofa again for today's HA No that happen last night at the game.....
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Post by swissgas on Oct 18, 2017 14:04:48 GMT
Lots of broken promises on budgets,UWE and the training ground up and running by 2018-2019 all a bloody mirage! Whats the point of taking over a struggling football club and not throwing serious money at it? Feel sorry for darrell clarke as hes becoming just another struggling manager waiting for the sack as the support start to turn on him as all "fans" do in the modern era. I would have much preferred not having my hopes raised that we were gunning for bristol city with a state of the art stadium and a category 2 academy,yes remember that? a cat 2 academy!! Name all the chairmen of bristol rovers that have done more for the football club than harry dolman or steve lansdown have at city. 1] Fred Ashmead. I've never bought into the myth that selling Eastville was a disaster for Rovers. What are you supposed to do when creditors threaten to call in their debts and wind up your business ? That sale meant Rovers survived and didn't become Bristol North End playing in the Western League. A few years later we had the most successful period in our history.
2] Hampden Alpass. Don't know much about him (perhaps Harry Buckle can help) but he was Rovers chairman during the most successful period in our history when we really were an "established championship club". 3] Douglas Mearns-Milne. I once talked to the Chairman of a top flight club who was glowing in his praise of this classy gentleman. Chairman from 1968-78 he gave us those wonderful league cup runs under Bill Dodgin and had the courage to bring in Don Megson and his Yorkshire crew which brought about the memorable promotion to the the second tier in 1973/74.4] Denis Dunford. Together with Geoff he saved the club and bought the Mem. No further explanation needed. I don't think the op is all tosh and have left in the bits I agree with. We have to remember we are Bristol Rovers not Bristol City so the criteria for determining who has done more for the club is different. I am a great admirer of what Harry Dolman and Steve Lansdown have done for City but I think their fans would agree that you can't mention them without also mentioning Deryn Coller and Ken Sage who saved their club in 1982. Our loyalty should be to Bristol Rovers and not to any particular set of owners so Wael / Dwane Sports need just as much scrutiny as anyone else. Just because Wael is a more sympathetic person than Nick Higgs doesn't mean his mistakes are not capable of doing as much harm to the club as Nick's did. I say it in that way because no one can doubt that both Nick and Wael aimed to make Rovers a better and more successful football club but crucial mistakes sabotaged Nick's efforts and may well do the same for Wael. Steve Hamer is apparently representing the board at tomorrows supporters club AGM so I hope someone will ask him about the interest being charged on the Dwane Sports loan and not be fobbed off by any allusion to confidential information which it is not because it will be published in the accounts. I looked at the Burton Albion accounts recently and they paid interest of £3000 in 2016 against our £ 435 000. If the interest is now up to £ 600 000 pa what effect will that have on our playing budget compared to Burton's ? Well, 4 mediocre players on £ 1750 per week cost £ 364 000 per year and 4 quality players on £ 4750 per week cost £ 988 000. The difference is £ 624 000 and possibly championship football.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2017 17:51:58 GMT
Lots of broken promises on budgets,UWE and the training ground up and running by 2018-2019 all a bloody mirage! Whats the point of taking over a struggling football club and not throwing serious money at it? Feel sorry for darrell clarke as hes becoming just another struggling manager waiting for the sack as the support start to turn on him as all "fans" do in the modern era. I would have much preferred not having my hopes raised that we were gunning for bristol city with a state of the art stadium and a category 2 academy,yes remember that? a cat 2 academy!! Name all the chairmen of bristol rovers that have done more for the football club than harry dolman or steve lansdown have at city. 1] Fred Ashmead. I've never bought into the myth that selling Eastville was a disaster for Rovers. What are you supposed to do when creditors threaten to call in their debts and wind up your business ? That sale meant Rovers survived and didn't become Bristol North End playing in the Western League. A few years later we had the most successful period in our history.
2] Hampden Alpass. Don't know much about him (perhaps Harry Buckle can help) but he was Rovers chairman during the most successful period in our history when we really were an "established championship club". 3] Douglas Mearns-Milne. I once talked to the Chairman of a top flight club who was glowing in his praise of this classy gentleman. Chairman from 1968-78 he gave us those wonderful league cup runs under Bill Dodgin and had the courage to bring in Don Megson and his Yorkshire crew which brought about the memorable promotion to the the second tier in 1973/74.4] Denis Dunford. Together with Geoff he saved the club and bought the Mem. No further explanation needed. I don't think the op is all tosh and have left in the bits I agree with. We have to remember we are Bristol Rovers not Bristol City so the criteria for determining who has done more for the club is different. I am a great admirer of what Harry Dolman and Steve Lansdown have done for City but I think their fans would agree that you can't mention them without also mentioning Deryn Coller and Ken Sage who saved their club in 1982. Our loyalty should be to Bristol Rovers and not to any particular set of owners so Wael / Dwane Sports need just as much scrutiny as anyone else. Just because Wael is a more sympathetic person than Nick Higgs doesn't mean his mistakes are not capable of doing as much harm to the club as Nick's did. I say it in that way because no one can doubt that both Nick and Wael aimed to make Rovers a better and more successful football club but crucial mistakes sabotaged Nick's efforts and may well do the same for Wael. Steve Hamer is apparently representing the board at tomorrows supporters club AGM so I hope someone will ask him about the interest being charged on the Dwane Sports loan and not be fobbed off by any allusion to confidential information which it is not because it will be published in the accounts. I looked at the Burton Albion accounts recently and they paid interest of £3000 in 2016 against our £ 435 000. If the interest is now up to £ 600 000 pa what effect will that have on our playing budget compared to Burton's ? Well, 4 mediocre players on £ 1750 per week cost £ 364 000 per year and 4 quality players on £ 4750 per week cost £ 988 000. The difference is £ 624 000 and possibly championship football. Fair enough. But following from that question, what should the person asking the question say if Hamer replies that the interest is theoretical and just an accounting exercise as they don't take any cash out, so the cash wasn't there to spend on players. BTW, if Hamer does reply that I think he will have been told to say it as I've not seen anything yet to suggest that he's smart enough to think up that reply all by himself.
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Post by richmace on Oct 18, 2017 19:15:59 GMT
There are perfectly valid points made by the original poster, I think we all feel frustrated at the lack of apparent off the field progress, and it is unfortunate for the owners that this has coincided with a dip in league form.
In the defense of Wael and his family, they stated from the outset that this would be a gradual, evolution project. They made it clear from the outset that this was no Chelsea-style injection of cash. All they promised was to build and grow the football club, from the bottom up. I still believe that he and his family are good ambassadors for this club, and I still believe that they saved this club from administration. On the back of that, they deserve time to deliver their vision for Bristol Rovers.
Having said all that, it would be nice to see builders happily creating a training ground right now. That would deflect a lot of the criticism and back up the evolution story.
I see no problem in examining what is going on, as long as we do not sink to the insults (from all parties) that dogged a lot of the Geoff Dunford / Nick Higgs era.
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Post by droitwichgas on Oct 18, 2017 19:27:14 GMT
There are perfectly valid points made by the original poster, I think we all feel frustrated at the lack of apparent off the field progress, and it is unfortunate for the owners that this has coincided with a dip in league form. In the defense of Wael and his family, they stated from the outset that this would be a gradual, evolution project. They made it clear from the outset that this was no Chelsea-style injection of cash. All they promised was to build and grow the football club, from the bottom up. I still believe that he and his family are good ambassadors for this club, and I still believe that they saved this club from administration. On the back of that, they deserve time to deliver their vision for Bristol Rovers. Having said all that, it would be nice to see builders happily creating a training ground right now. That would deflect a lot of the criticism and back up the evolution story. I see no problem in examining what is going on, as long as we do not sink to the insults (from all parties) that dogged a lot of the Geoff Dunford / Nick Higgs era. Can anybody explain if there's not a big cash injection how The Colony is going to be built at a minimum cost of £5m(?) Plus where's the £30m(?) going to come from to regenerate the Mem? Although somebody on Gaschat is now suggesting The Colony has now joined the UWE in being binned for Plan B!
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2017 19:31:24 GMT
Dear OP, please log off, delete your account, and never return. Dear Jungle Boogie, I think twitter might be mre up your street, Sir. You can choose who you follow. This is not an individual echo chamber. This is an open forum for argument and debate. I disagree fundamentally with some of Bluesky's OP. But why on earth should he log off, delete his account, or stay away? He's an eccentric old goat, but a gashead. He loves the manager and the hardest running players. He made his points. Please leave him alone and make your own points in disagreement. That's the whole point, is it not? Yours sincerely, S H Oveler
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GasPanic!
Rickie Lambert
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 546
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Post by GasPanic! on Oct 18, 2017 20:07:04 GMT
1. George Humphreys Rovers 6o year old Chairman who paid to appoint our first full time manager Ben Hall in 1920.Humphreys often paid the players wages from his own pocket. Read more in the excellent Bristol Rovers Definitive History book. "Please buy my book"
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Post by swissgas on Oct 18, 2017 20:22:52 GMT
I don't think the op is all tosh and have left in the bits I agree with. We have to remember we are Bristol Rovers not Bristol City so the criteria for determining who has done more for the club is different. I am a great admirer of what Harry Dolman and Steve Lansdown have done for City but I think their fans would agree that you can't mention them without also mentioning Deryn Coller and Ken Sage who saved their club in 1982. Our loyalty should be to Bristol Rovers and not to any particular set of owners so Wael / Dwane Sports need just as much scrutiny as anyone else. Just because Wael is a more sympathetic person than Nick Higgs doesn't mean his mistakes are not capable of doing as much harm to the club as Nick's did. I say it in that way because no one can doubt that both Nick and Wael aimed to make Rovers a better and more successful football club but crucial mistakes sabotaged Nick's efforts and may well do the same for Wael. Steve Hamer is apparently representing the board at tomorrows supporters club AGM so I hope someone will ask him about the interest being charged on the Dwane Sports loan and not be fobbed off by any allusion to confidential information which it is not because it will be published in the accounts. I looked at the Burton Albion accounts recently and they paid interest of £3000 in 2016 against our £ 435 000. If the interest is now up to £ 600 000 pa what effect will that have on our playing budget compared to Burton's ? Well, 4 mediocre players on £ 1750 per week cost £ 364 000 per year and 4 quality players on £ 4750 per week cost £ 988 000. The difference is £ 624 000 and possibly championship football. Fair enough. But following from that question, what should the person asking the question say if Hamer replies that the interest is theoretical and just an accounting exercise as they don't take any cash out, so the cash wasn't there to spend on players. BTW, if Hamer does reply that I think he will have been told to say it as I've not seen anything yet to suggest that he's smart enough to think up that reply all by himself. The consolidated statement of cash flows in the 2016 accounts indicates the interest was paid out. The interest waived by the previous owners is included in that statement but nothing to show that interest due to MSP Capital or Dwane Sports was waived. As faggotygas posted a few weeks ago the interest could have been taken out and then loaned back. But what is the logic in charging yourself interest and then loaning yourself money to pay that interest ? Rovers are not likely to be paying tax in the foreseeable future and the corporate tax rate in Jersey is 0%. The owners of clubs as big as Brighton and as small as Forest Green put their money in through equity and/or interest free loans so Steve Hamer needs to explain what makes Rovers owners different. If he is not able to then I think it's a fair assumption that interest payments are the reason why Rovers can't seem to compete in the transfer market against clubs which have much lower attendances.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2017 20:45:17 GMT
Fair enough. But following from that question, what should the person asking the question say if Hamer replies that the interest is theoretical and just an accounting exercise as they don't take any cash out, so the cash wasn't there to spend on players. BTW, if Hamer does reply that I think he will have been told to say it as I've not seen anything yet to suggest that he's smart enough to think up that reply all by himself. The consolidated statement of cash flows in the 2016 accounts indicates the interest was paid out. The interest waived by the previous owners is included in that statement but nothing to show that interest due to MSP Capital or Dwane Sports was waived. As faggotygas posted a few weeks ago the interest could have been taken out and then loaned back. But what is the logic in charging yourself interest and then loaning yourself money to pay that interest ? Rovers are not likely to be paying tax in the foreseeable future and the corporate tax rate in Jersey is 0%. The owners of clubs as big as Brighton and as small as Forest Green put their money in through equity and/or interest free loans so Steve Hamer needs to explain what makes Rovers owners different. If he is not able to then I think it's a fair assumption that interest payments are the reason why Rovers can't seem to compete in the transfer market against clubs which have much lower attendances. Oh dear. Good, thanks for confirming and thank you for the detailed analysis. Good luck to Hamer fielding that one If the manger reads this thread, the question could even come from the top table!
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Post by PessimistGas on Oct 18, 2017 20:50:19 GMT
The consolidated statement of cash flows in the 2016 accounts indicates the interest was paid out. The interest waived by the previous owners is included in that statement but nothing to show that interest due to MSP Capital or Dwane Sports was waived. As faggotygas posted a few weeks ago the interest could have been taken out and then loaned back. But what is the logic in charging yourself interest and then loaning yourself money to pay that interest ? Rovers are not likely to be paying tax in the foreseeable future and the corporate tax rate in Jersey is 0%. The owners of clubs as big as Brighton and as small as Forest Green put their money in through equity and/or interest free loans so Steve Hamer needs to explain what makes Rovers owners different. If he is not able to then I think it's a fair assumption that interest payments are the reason why Rovers can't seem to compete in the transfer market against clubs which have much lower attendances. Oh dear. Good, thanks for confirming and thank you for the detailed analysis. Good luck to Hamer fielding that one If the manger reads this thread, the question could even come from the top table! The Colony being binned would be a shocker wouldn't it? It's been known for months to anyone willing to open their eyes.
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Post by PessimistGas on Oct 18, 2017 21:10:35 GMT
It is posts like this that really make us gas heads look like everybody else. We have a go at the darkside for demanding Johnson out last season and now look at us...supporters demand our owners or for DC to leave. As Stroudblue explained, it will take small steps. It will be a long process to change a club around starting from the bottom like we are (infrastructure, training facilities). No point just chucking money at a club for it all to be wasted and toxic like it used to be. Just strap in and enjoy the rover rollercoaster ride like we are used to and pipe down. Say what you like about City but they have forced out a number of s*** owners and there is no way they would put up with this crap. UWE gone. Fully expect the news to break shortly about the Colony being binned. What excuses will you make for them then? We know Hani has pulled the funding. We know the club is being charged a shed load of interest on a loan secured against the stadium. At what point exactly does the being a loyal gashead routine become just being a bunch of mugs? What a farce.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2017 22:13:49 GMT
I just think that if after the UWE was shelved the club showed real intent by getting on with the training ground it would have been very reassuring. Even a statement stating that the training ground will be built and running at the earliest time possible would have been nice. I spoke to dc at both the development games i have been too,mostly about the young players and him helping me out with the names but he told me he was disappointed about the UWE.
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Post by PessimistGas on Oct 18, 2017 22:20:46 GMT
I just think that if after the UWE was shelved the club showed real intent by getting on with the training ground it would have been very reassuring. Totally agree. Even when the Colony is officially shelved there will be no shortage of those willing to line up to make excuses.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2017 22:35:25 GMT
I just think that if after the UWE was shelved the club showed real intent by getting on with the training ground it would have been very reassuring. Totally agree. Even when the Colony is officially shelved there will be no shortage of those willing to line up to make excuses. Our training facilities are abysmal,one pitch at cribbs for the 1st team and another miles away for the development squad. So to me it should be a massive priority.
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Post by a more piratey game on Oct 18, 2017 23:45:44 GMT
Fair enough. But following from that question, what should the person asking the question say if Hamer replies that the interest is theoretical and just an accounting exercise as they don't take any cash out, so the cash wasn't there to spend on players. BTW, if Hamer does reply that I think he will have been told to say it as I've not seen anything yet to suggest that he's smart enough to think up that reply all by himself. The consolidated statement of cash flows in the 2016 accounts indicates the interest was paid out. The interest waived by the previous owners is included in that statement but nothing to show that interest due to MSP Capital or Dwane Sports was waived. As faggotygas posted a few weeks ago the interest could have been taken out and then loaned back. But what is the logic in charging yourself interest and then loaning yourself money to pay that interest ? Rovers are not likely to be paying tax in the foreseeable future and the corporate tax rate in Jersey is 0%. The owners of clubs as big as Brighton and as small as Forest Green put their money in through equity and/or interest free loans so Steve Hamer needs to explain what makes Rovers owners different. If he is not able to then I think it's a fair assumption that interest payments are the reason why Rovers can't seem to compete in the transfer market against clubs which have much lower attendances. It seems to me that the Glazers/Manure model is to milk cash out while piling on debt secured against future income streams, and hoping that the growth in TV/branding/global rights will enable the 'notional asset value' of the club to grow that doesn't obviously translate to Rovers, or even Rovers in the Championship, especially given cash outflows to the much larger staff list (I presume) would you you care to speculate on what the current owners' financial plan is Swiss?
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Post by Henbury Gas on Oct 19, 2017 6:30:16 GMT
It is posts like this that really make us gas heads look like everybody else. We have a go at the darkside for demanding Johnson out last season and now look at us...supporters demand our owners or for DC to leave. As Stroudblue explained, it will take small steps. It will be a long process to change a club around starting from the bottom like we are (infrastructure, training facilities). No point just chucking money at a club for it all to be wasted and toxic like it used to be. Just strap in and enjoy the rover rollercoaster ride like we are used to and pipe down. Say what you like about City but they have forced out a number of s*** owners and there is no way they would put up with this crap. UWE gone. Fully expect the news to break shortly about the Colony being binned. What excuses will you make for them then? We know Hani has pulled the funding. We know the club is being charged a shed load of interest on a loan secured against the stadium. At what point exactly does the being a loyal gashead routine become just being a bunch of mugs? What a farce. Would point me in the direction where this has been confirmed please ?
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Post by PessimistGas on Oct 19, 2017 7:35:36 GMT
Say what you like about City but they have forced out a number of s*** owners and there is no way they would put up with this crap. UWE gone. Fully expect the news to break shortly about the Colony being binned. What excuses will you make for them then? We know Hani has pulled the funding. We know the club is being charged a shed load of interest on a loan secured against the stadium. At what point exactly does the being a loyal gashead routine become just being a bunch of mugs? What a farce. Would point me in the direction where this has been confirmed please ? Let's have another conversation when it has.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Oct 19, 2017 7:37:41 GMT
Would point me in the direction where this has been confirmed please ? Let's have another conversation when it has. So you have no proof that this has been stated then ?
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