kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jul 29, 2017 17:00:20 GMT
Let's not try kidding ourselves here, that was 27 years ago, even before the premier league was formed. The amount of money that has been ploughed into the premier league has completely changed the game. Because of the parachute payments from relegated premier league teams, you now need a huge amout of financial backing to sustain a team in either of these divisions. The fact is to be a sustainable football league club nowadays you must have a modern stadium that has facilities that can be used for income throughout the week, not just on a Saturday afternoon. That's just making excuses for failure.at the end of the day success is measured solely by events on the field not by infrastructure or a modern stadium There are bargain players available at all levels if your scouting network is good enough. Your comments are symptomatic of modern society that money is key to everything Absolutely spot on. Great post
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warehamgas
Predictions League
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Post by warehamgas on Jul 29, 2017 20:36:52 GMT
Whilst I understand the point you're making padstow I'm afraid money is the key to lasting and sustainable success in today's football. Without it we may gain some success and even gain promotion but with the conditions the EFL have about grounds in the Championship and having to compete against foreign owners with money to burn in that league it would be a fleeting success I think. Brighton, Reading, Swansea have gained and sustained success on the back of new stadiums and being very well run clubs. Bournemouth have done it with a very, very rich owner and the best young manager in the country. But you are right about success at the end of the day being measured on success on the field. It has to be that because otherwise BRFC would have gone to the wall years ago. It's why I always disagree when people say we have to get things right before we go up. If we did that we would wait for ever! It's what we've always done, get the right players, develop a tightly knit group and fight against the odds. We have to take every opportunity to get success on the field. DC has no control over ground and other infrastructure stuff. He has to concentrate on getting the right players, playing the right way and getting success. Then if we go up we do our best and if we come down we regroup and go again. It's always been the Rovers way. We do need a new ground but we can't use not having one as an excuse why we don't have success. At the end of the day on 46 games a year we turn up and hope we can outplay the opposition more times than not. That can't be done without money and lots of it. To get sustained and lasting success we will need loads of it! Perhaps that's unfortunate but I'm aftraid it's the modern football world. UTG!
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
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Post by faggotygas on Jul 31, 2017 8:00:46 GMT
And that's the issue as w/o the UWE we've virtually reached our peak whether or not the Mem pitch is like a carpet, or we have the best Academy coaching staff in Div 1. If the ALQ's can't deliver the UWE then we're really going to be in no better position than we were under NH, long term anyway. In fact we could be in a worse position as the ALQ will now have let pp expire on the UWE, let's hope something is announced soon. So how did we manage to get promotion in 89/90 at Twerton in a non league stadium with limited spectators on paying rent winning promotion from this division with a very small squad no backroom staff and a side that cost about 80k Well, for a starters, there wasn't such a big financial difference between the divisions back then. And, for finishers, I'm not say we couldn't get promotion as a one-off, but we certainly wouldn't be able to sustain the position in the long term at the Mem as it is.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
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Post by faggotygas on Jul 31, 2017 8:07:30 GMT
That's just making excuses for failure.at the end of the day success is measured solely by events on the field not by infrastructure or a modern stadium There are bargain players available at all levels if your scouting network is good enough. Your comments are symptomatic of modern society that money is key to everything Absolutely spot on. Great post Name a club with a 12k or less capacity ground that has sustained a position in the Championship or higher, for more than a few years, in the last 20
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Post by DudeLebowski on Jul 31, 2017 8:25:21 GMT
Absolutely spot on. Great post Name a club with a 12k or less capacity ground that has sustained a position in the Championship or higher, for more than a few years, in the last 20 Brentford & Burton to start.
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Post by a more piratey game on Jul 31, 2017 8:33:01 GMT
at the end of the day success is measured solely by events on the field not by infrastructure or a modern stadium not by me there are other things too - enjoyability of watching the football (which is made up of the atmosphere, the style of play, the comfort of the stadium, the price of pasties etc etc) is also very important. Its one of the reasons I'm not a Chelski fan also the 'story' of a club. I would be more tempted to be an AFC Wombles fan that a MK Donkeys fan. That's part of 'success' in my view there are doubtless other things too. 82 had some 'success' on the field prior to 1982, but that was no success in my book - though the fan experience was probably quite good for a while. And George Graham's Arsenal had some on-field success, although there was something of the Living Dead about them which makes me think them not very successful its a bit like saying that people with lots of money are 'successful'. Not necessarily, I think. I think lots of people who don't have tons of money are very successful
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Post by laughinggas on Jul 31, 2017 8:42:17 GMT
Name a club with a 12k or less capacity ground that has sustained a position in the Championship or higher, for more than a few years, in the last 20 Brentford & Burton to start. Bournemouth?
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
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Post by faggotygas on Jul 31, 2017 11:41:33 GMT
Name a club with a 12k or less capacity ground that has sustained a position in the Championship or higher, for more than a few years, in the last 20 Brentford & Burton to start. Burton are just starting thier 2nd season in Championship, so not 'a few years'. Brentford are the one and only exception, as they are about to start thier 4th (I think), but they are heavily externally financed, making massive losses each year - so it comes down to money again. Their owner has put around £90m in, and is now looking to offload, so not a sustainable situation.
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Peter Parker
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Richard Walker
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Post by Peter Parker on Jul 31, 2017 12:03:45 GMT
Brentford & Burton to start. Burton are just starting thier 2nd season in Championship, so not 'a few years'. Brentford are the one and only exception, as they are about to start thier 4th (I think), but they are heavily externally financed, making massive losses each year - so it comes down to money again. Their owner has put around £90m in, and is now looking to offload, so not a sustainable situation. aren't Brentford trying to build a ground as well?
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
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Post by faggotygas on Jul 31, 2017 12:08:52 GMT
Burton are just starting thier 2nd season in Championship, so not 'a few years'. Brentford are the one and only exception, as they are about to start thier 4th (I think), but they are heavily externally financed, making massive losses each year - so it comes down to money again. Their owner has put around £90m in, and is now looking to offload, so not a sustainable situation. aren't Brentford trying to build a ground as well? Yes. Clearly they think that they can't sustain Championship football with a 12k capacity too. Or are they just preparing an excuse for failure?
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
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Post by faggotygas on Jul 31, 2017 12:10:49 GMT
Brentford & Burton to start. Bournemouth? The 2nd exception! And, of course, massively externally financed.
My point is that sustaining Championship or above football requires money. Some others claimed that money does not matter.
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Jul 31, 2017 12:29:12 GMT
Brentford & Burton to start. Burton are just starting thier 2nd season in Championship, so not 'a few years'. Brentford are the one and only exception, as they are about to start thier 4th (I think), but they are heavily externally financed, making massive losses each year - so it comes down to money again. Their owner has put around £90m in, and is now looking to offload, so not a sustainable situation. That is the nub of it isn't it sustainability? Burton are a wonderful example of achieving over what you might expect and doing a very good job if you are a well run business. But they also have a fairly up together stadium, albeit small. Whether they can sustain Championship football over a few years remains to be seen. Brentford are a good example of a club who are entering their fourth year but their losses probably are not sustainable and they could become a financial basket case if their owner threw the toys out! This is a pretty good thread I think. Padstow is absolutely right to say we can do it with the right attitude, good scouting and the right players pointing at the past. But others are correct to say that without a new stadium we would probably not be able to sustain it over a long period of time. What I didn't say in my earlier post was that as well as the PL wannabes in the Championship who will spend loads of money we will also have about 6/7 teams receiving parachute payments which immediately puts them into a different category when it comes to spending. We could do well up there but it would be almost impossible to remain there with the funding we currently have although I would be delighted to be proved wrong. Being one of the older posters on here I try not to look back to a golden age of Rovers. The PL and money changed football and whilst you can keep old fashioned values, whatever they are, you can't deny that we are where we are and that football success in the long run is dependent upon a secure financial model with large income streams. And currently we haven't got that at the Mem, sad but true, I think. Whatever it is always up the Gas and come on you blues!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2017 14:08:03 GMT
But can you guarantee that a new stadium will bring more fans? the answer is no you cannot you only have to look at darlington and can you guarantee that we will get in increased revenue from said new stadium don't forget we are in competition with ashton gate that has a long tradition of attracting outside finance and they wont sit back and give rovers a free run at any outside sources of revenue so the claims are suppositional at best and pie in the sky at worst.The only guaranteed income is through the turnstiles and income derived via the same sources as we have now
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2017 14:11:09 GMT
Brentford & Burton to start. Burton are just starting thier 2nd season in Championship, so not 'a few years'. Brentford are the one and only exception, as they are about to start thier 4th (I think), but they are heavily externally financed, making massive losses each year - so it comes down to money again. Their owner has put around £90m in, and is now looking to offload, so not a sustainable situation. He's not looking to offload though, he's investing in a new stadium to make them financially stable and also using a statistically driven moneyball model to buy cheap and sell high on players.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2017 14:27:27 GMT
Whilst I understand the point you're making padstow I'm afraid money is the key to lasting and sustainable success in today's football. Without it we may gain some success and even gain promotion but with the conditions the EFL have about grounds in the Championship and having to compete against foreign owners with money to burn in that league it would be a fleeting success I think. Brighton, Reading, Swansea have gained and sustained success on the back of new stadiums and being very well run clubs. Bournemouth have done it with a very, very rich owner and the best young manager in the country. But you are right about success at the end of the day being measured on success on the field. It has to be that because otherwise BRFC would have gone to the wall years ago. It's why I always disagree when people say we have to get things right before we go up. If we did that we would wait for ever! It's what we've always done, get the right players, develop a tightly knit group and fight against the odds. We have to take every opportunity to get success on the field. DC has no control over ground and other infrastructure stuff. He has to concentrate on getting the right players, playing the right way and getting success. Then if we go up we do our best and if we come down we regroup and go again. It's always been the Rovers way. We do need a new ground but we can't use not having one as an excuse why we don't have success. At the end of the day on 46 games a year we turn up and hope we can outplay the opposition more times than not. That can't be done without money and lots of it. To get sustained and lasting success we will need loads of it! Perhaps that's unfortunate but I'm aftraid it's the modern football world. UTG! Just to throw something into the pot one of the biggest names in post war british football with a billionaire owner massive fan base couldn't sustain premiership status a couple of years ago and despite making large offers for a number of players are struggling to attract them to the club even though they have regained premiership membership,but for how long? A new stadium and infrastructure does not put points on the board and paying large fees for players does not guarantee that they will be a success
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
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Post by faggotygas on Aug 1, 2017 15:11:03 GMT
Whilst I understand the point you're making padstow I'm afraid money is the key to lasting and sustainable success in today's football. Without it we may gain some success and even gain promotion but with the conditions the EFL have about grounds in the Championship and having to compete against foreign owners with money to burn in that league it would be a fleeting success I think. Brighton, Reading, Swansea have gained and sustained success on the back of new stadiums and being very well run clubs. Bournemouth have done it with a very, very rich owner and the best young manager in the country. But you are right about success at the end of the day being measured on success on the field. It has to be that because otherwise BRFC would have gone to the wall years ago. It's why I always disagree when people say we have to get things right before we go up. If we did that we would wait for ever! It's what we've always done, get the right players, develop a tightly knit group and fight against the odds. We have to take every opportunity to get success on the field. DC has no control over ground and other infrastructure stuff. He has to concentrate on getting the right players, playing the right way and getting success. Then if we go up we do our best and if we come down we regroup and go again. It's always been the Rovers way. We do need a new ground but we can't use not having one as an excuse why we don't have success. At the end of the day on 46 games a year we turn up and hope we can outplay the opposition more times than not. That can't be done without money and lots of it. To get sustained and lasting success we will need loads of it! Perhaps that's unfortunate but I'm aftraid it's the modern football world. UTG! Just to throw something into the pot one of the biggest names in post war british football with a billionaire owner massive fan base couldn't sustain premiership status a couple of years ago and despite making large offers for a number of players are struggling to attract them to the club even though they have regained premiership membership,but for how long? A new stadium and infrastructure does not put points on the board and paying large fees for players does not guarantee that they will be a success They sound badly run.
Look, if you look at any statistical analysis over a decend period of years, the amount a club forks out on wages has a strong correlation with average league position. There are, of course a few exceptions, mostly exceptionally badly run clubs.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
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Post by faggotygas on Aug 1, 2017 15:18:54 GMT
Burton are just starting thier 2nd season in Championship, so not 'a few years'. Brentford are the one and only exception, as they are about to start thier 4th (I think), but they are heavily externally financed, making massive losses each year - so it comes down to money again. Their owner has put around £90m in, and is now looking to offload, so not a sustainable situation. He's not looking to offload though, he's investing in a new stadium to make them financially stable and also using a statistically driven moneyball model to buy cheap and sell high on players. He's been looking at selling 50% of his stake.
And this kind of confirms my point - even with a very well run club, with a good model, they still need a bigger stadium to be stable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2017 15:27:10 GMT
He's not looking to offload though, he's investing in a new stadium to make them financially stable and also using a statistically driven moneyball model to buy cheap and sell high on players. He's been looking at selling 50% of his stake.
And this kind of confirms my point - even with a very well run club, with a good model, they still need a bigger stadium to be stable.
A huge difference between offloading and seeking further external investment. I wasn't doubting the point regarding the need for a new stadium though. Brentford have bought, and sold wisely. It's a good model to look at if we are the achieve parity if promotion is achieved. We're much better looking at Brentford than Burton as we're miles off being as sustainable as them.
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bloogas
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Post by bloogas on Aug 1, 2017 15:27:33 GMT
Go on then, Padstow,who? Only what I'd call big clubs I can think of are Leeds & Aston Villa but they're still Championship. Got a billionaire owner? Chelsea? Man City? Do you mean Newcastle? Always seemed to have been erratic.
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Aug 1, 2017 15:44:14 GMT
But can you guarantee that a new stadium will bring more fans? the answer is no you cannot you only have to look at darlington and can you guarantee that we will get in increased revenue from said new stadium don't forget we are in competition with ashton gate that has a long tradition of attracting outside finance and they wont sit back and give rovers a free run at any outside sources of revenue so the claims are suppositional at best and pie in the sky at worst.The only guaranteed income is through the turnstiles and income derived via the same sources as we have now Of course you are right about no guarantees. You can never guarantee anything (apart from ex players scoring against us!!) and a new stadium would be no guarantee if you are badly run. Darlington were run ineptly and built to massage a rich crook's ego and we all know where that led. But for every Darlington there is a Swansea, Reading, Brighton and even Bournemouth, although no new ground, so I think to point at Darlington might be stretching the point. Although you can't forecast exactly what would happen if we had a new stadium I would be confident that the new owners would be running the club very well but in a new stadium, and have a much better chance of generating extra income that would make any promotion much more sustainable. What I would like to see and would expect it to happen if we had a new stadium the whole match day experience would grow and the club would start to create extra income streams on match days as well as those on non-match days. And when it comes down to it we can't really say we don't want a new stadium because look what happened to Darlington when they had one, it doesn't work like that. UTG!
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