Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,165
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Post by Cheshiregas on Mar 30, 2021 21:19:37 GMT
Looks like @contradiction has done a 'knowall', come in, thrown a few grenades and now gone off as he has had a little more in depth questioning. Obviously his way of showing 'total and utter respect' to the rest of us inquisitive posters..... Oh well, to the next grenade throw...... Some of us have busy jobs and busy lives, and this is just a minor and incidental forum well down the list of priorities.And I don't think I've had 'in depth questioning' either to be honest, just more of 'Swiss was on the board, he must be taken seriously' (even if it was 30 odd years ago in a different world of paying peanuts, no commercial needs, no agents, a vibrant transfer market, no social media, no need for training grounds or backroom staff, and where you could just about make income and expenditure match. That world doesn't exist any more however hard you work, and Swiss talks boll*x) I'm not going to do what you suggested, quite frankly I cannot be ars*d. I'm just a fan who asks questions and does some digging, always have done. The info is out there if you try and look hard enough, but best not be swayed by people claiming to know stuff on internet forums. Its pretty obvious there wont be balanced comments from quite a few, including my mate Swiss of course, as every post is anti Wael. Its a pointless excercise that bit is obvious.Also pretty obvious that Joey B*****'s history will mean that for some, it will be impossible to comment in a balanced way. We could win the last 8 games and it wouldn't make a difference. I'm pretty bored to be honest. People can make up the own minds. Its only a non consequential fans form and got important stuff to do. #BooHiss We all have busy lives, thanks for patronising us. And if it is so minor and incidental why should comments like Swiss's bother you so much? But then how can you be taken seriously if you don't want to openly engage? You certainly live up to your name of contradiction because of course a forum won't be balanced if people won't come on and give their point of view. Just stating the obvious. And if it isn't balanced how come there are differences of opinion expressed? Vaughan's on here to make comments and sticks around to counter others comments as does Swiss. Anyway have a happy life doing important stuff! Regards
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2021 22:10:57 GMT
I'm totally lost now.
What's the point again please contradiction?
Hopefully we can find something specific to focus on and discuss.
For what it's worth, I've disagreed with Swiss in the past, I don't think he's always right, but he always lays his position out clearly and discusses it civilly.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Mar 31, 2021 1:27:59 GMT
I'm totally lost now. What's the point again please contradiction? Hopefully we can find something specific to focus on and discuss. For what it's worth, I've disagreed with Swiss in the past, I don't think he's always right, but he always lays his position out clearly and discusses it civilly. i can’t make head or tail of this thread. is it the trial of Swiss as though in Alice in Wonderland? contradiction is actually a character? I prefer my threads bluff. Bottom line up front. And in this case, Robespierre we know was not calling all the shots, certainly not the execution of Danton - it was all decided by the Committee For Public Security, and Robespierre was not on it! He was though in position that appointed all the members of the Committee For Public Security. Not all bad. Everyone on the committee got a free meal on match day.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,191
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Post by eppinggas on Apr 2, 2021 18:25:25 GMT
I'm totally lost now. What's the point again please contradiction? Hopefully we can find something specific to focus on and discuss. For what it's worth, I've disagreed with Swiss in the past, I don't think he's always right, but he always lays his position out clearly and discusses it civilly. I look forward to contradictions future posts so that we are able to discuss his points in more detail. When we have something coherent to discuss. Please be aware though. He maintains: "Some of us have busy jobs and busy lives, and this is just a minor and incidental forum well down the list of priorities". (March 30th, 7:24pm). So we may have to wait some time for any further words of debatable wisdom. Oh. Hang on, we've been truly blessed with a dozen posts since then. Praise the Lord.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2021 18:59:59 GMT
I'm totally lost now. What's the point again please contradiction? Hopefully we can find something specific to focus on and discuss. For what it's worth, I've disagreed with Swiss in the past, I don't think he's always right, but he always lays his position out clearly and discusses it civilly. I look forward to contradictions future posts so that we are able to discuss his points in more detail. When we have something coherent to discuss. Please be aware though. He maintains: "Some of us have busy jobs and busy lives, and this is just a minor and incidental forum well down the list of priorities". (March 30th, 7:24pm). So we may have to wait some time for any further words of debatable wisdom. Oh. Hang on, we've been truly blessed with a dozen posts since then. Praise the Lord. I had the pleasure of at least half a dozen that contained nothing of any merit whatsoever earlier today, whilst the match was going on. But I'm more interested in the content of the posts and the writing style than whether he was getting frustrated a few days ago and was close to backing away from an argument that he started. So how about it contradiction, are you going to concede that you have no evidence and without it your claims are no more valid than any other wild ass assertions anybody else may care to make, or are you going to give us detail of how the £3m was arrived at and how exactly all of it is being covered? I'll help you out as you are clearly just sat there making stuff up without doing any research whatsoever. Here you go, Premier League Financial Package
Now, get your calculator out, work out what Rovers share is, ask Wael why he didn't declare that this was coming off of the £3m and get back to us. Or is it that it was actually more than £3m and it netted down to £3m after this was subtracted, but that's not what was said in his letter. It shouldn't be this hard when talking to someone who claims to have access to information direct from the FC. Over to you.
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Post by droitwichgas on Apr 2, 2021 20:00:33 GMT
I look forward to contradictions future posts so that we are able to discuss his points in more detail. When we have something coherent to discuss. Please be aware though. He maintains: "Some of us have busy jobs and busy lives, and this is just a minor and incidental forum well down the list of priorities". (March 30th, 7:24pm). So we may have to wait some time for any further words of debatable wisdom. Oh. Hang on, we've been truly blessed with a dozen posts since then. Praise the Lord. I had the pleasure of at least half a dozen that contained nothing of any merit whatsoever earlier today, whilst the match was going on. But I'm more interested in the content of the posts and the writing style than whether he was getting frustrated a few days ago and was close to backing away from an argument that he started. So how about it contradiction, are you going to concede that you have no evidence and without it your claims are no more valid than any other wild ass assertions anybody else may care to make, or are you going to give us detail of how the £3m was arrived at and how exactly all of it is being covered? I'll help you out as you are clearly just sat there making stuff up without doing any research whatsoever. Here you go, Premier League Financial Package
Now, get your calculator out, work out what Rovers share is, ask Wael why he didn't declare that this was coming off of the £3m and get back to us. Or is it that it was actually more than £3m and it netted down to £3m after this was subtracted, but that's not what was said in his letter. It shouldn't be this hard when talking to someone who claims to have access to information direct from the FC. Over to you. Not sure £375K is going to make that much difference? Why would Wael overstate the losses given that the figure will eventually be confirmed in our end of year accounts for this year? If he'd said £2m rather than £3m it would still be a large sum of money to lose.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2021 20:30:22 GMT
I look forward to contradictions future posts so that we are able to discuss his points in more detail. When we have something coherent to discuss. Please be aware though. He maintains: "Some of us have busy jobs and busy lives, and this is just a minor and incidental forum well down the list of priorities". (March 30th, 7:24pm). So we may have to wait some time for any further words of debatable wisdom. Oh. Hang on, we've been truly blessed with a dozen posts since then. Praise the Lord. I had the pleasure of at least half a dozen that contained nothing of any merit whatsoever earlier today, whilst the match was going on. But I'm more interested in the content of the posts and the writing style than whether he was getting frustrated a few days ago and was close to backing away from an argument that he started. So how about it contradiction, are you going to concede that you have no evidence and without it your claims are no more valid than any other wild ass assertions anybody else may care to make, or are you going to give us detail of how the £3m was arrived at and how exactly all of it is being covered? I'll help you out as you are clearly just sat there making stuff up without doing any research whatsoever. Here you go, Premier League Financial Package
Now, get your calculator out, work out what Rovers share is, ask Wael why he didn't declare that this was coming off of the £3m and get back to us. Or is it that it was actually more than £3m and it netted down to £3m after this was subtracted, but that's not what was said in his letter. It shouldn't be this hard when talking to someone who claims to have access to information direct from the FC. Over to you. Jees this is hard work. But, Ok lets put to bed, its not that hard.
Back of a fag packet approach:
Income sources: (Guesswork)
Walk up crowd say 1.4m
Match day spend say 250k
Season ticket income 2.0m
Commercial say 150k (depends on contracts)
Corporate match day 700k Mem facilities hire etc 50k
Replaced by: PL Grant Believe it was 350k-400k per club?
PL loan - Think about 300k per club was available to apply for but Repayable over 3 years I think. Dont know if we applied or not. Non season ticket I follow passes say 350k ?
Possibly some nice season ticket holders not asking for refund on this seasons Season Ticket, (less any I follow passes) ? unknown. God knows what that figure would be, impossible to tell at this stage
So no one is going to get a detailed breakdown, so this would be why 'est' is in the letter.
Not hard to get to 3million estimate is it??
Now I will respecfully remind you that in the other thread you said "fair play if Wael covered the £3m" - admittedly because you thought we had failed to get BI insurance cover before realising it was not available so you couldnt use that particular stick to beat him after all. So now you are trying to do a U turn, but floundering big time and are digging an ever deepening hole.
Good that you have acknowledged his good work and kindness all the same, before said U turn.
Enjoy the easter eggs
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2021 20:40:28 GMT
I had the pleasure of at least half a dozen that contained nothing of any merit whatsoever earlier today, whilst the match was going on. But I'm more interested in the content of the posts and the writing style than whether he was getting frustrated a few days ago and was close to backing away from an argument that he started. So how about it contradiction, are you going to concede that you have no evidence and without it your claims are no more valid than any other wild ass assertions anybody else may care to make, or are you going to give us detail of how the £3m was arrived at and how exactly all of it is being covered? I'll help you out as you are clearly just sat there making stuff up without doing any research whatsoever. Here you go, Premier League Financial Package
Now, get your calculator out, work out what Rovers share is, ask Wael why he didn't declare that this was coming off of the £3m and get back to us. Or is it that it was actually more than £3m and it netted down to £3m after this was subtracted, but that's not what was said in his letter. It shouldn't be this hard when talking to someone who claims to have access to information direct from the FC. Over to you. Jees this is hard work. But, Ok lets put to bed, its not that hard.
Back of a fag packet approach:
Income sources: (Guesswork)
Walk up crowd say 1.4m
Match day spend say 250k
Season ticket income 2.0m
Commercial say 150k (depends on contracts)
Corporate match day 700k Mem facilities hire etc 50k
Replaced by: PL Grant Believe it was 350k-400k per club?
PL loan - Think about 300k per club was available to apply for but Repayable over 3 years I think. Dont know if we applied or not. Non season ticket I follow passes say 350k ?
Possibly some nice season ticket holders not asking for refund on this seasons Season Ticket, (less any I follow passes) ? unknown. God knows what that figure would be, impossible to tell at this stage
So no one is going to get a detailed breakdown, so this would be why 'est' is in the letter.
Not hard to get to 3million estimate is it??
Now I will respecfully remind you that in the other thread you said "fair play if Wael covered the £3m" - admittedly because you thought we had failed to get BI insurance cover before realising it was not available so you couldnt use that particular stick to beat him after all. So now you are trying to do a U turn, but floundering big time and are digging an ever deepening hole.
Good that you have acknowledged his good work and kindness all the same, before said U turn.
Enjoy the easter eggs
All just numbers pulled out of thin air. What crowd projections are you working on given that our scheduled defeat to Doncaster will give Wael the bragging rights of having orchestrated the worst home record in our entire history, ever? Get some figures and come back to us. Until then you are holding an empty sack. I stand by what I said. Demonstrate what the additional losses are, demonstrate that he has personally covered them without securing the money against the stadium, and I'll be grateful to him. One person has said that business interruption insurance isn't available for football clubs, that may well be the case, I don't know either way, but unlike you I try not to make statements unless I know them to be verifiable, now of course there are occasions when I'm sloppy with what I write and am happy to be corrected, but in this instance you made the original positive assertion, I've challenged you to demonstrate that what you said is accurate. Honestly it's not as difficult as you are making it.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2021 20:47:34 GMT
I had the pleasure of at least half a dozen that contained nothing of any merit whatsoever earlier today, whilst the match was going on. But I'm more interested in the content of the posts and the writing style than whether he was getting frustrated a few days ago and was close to backing away from an argument that he started. So how about it contradiction, are you going to concede that you have no evidence and without it your claims are no more valid than any other wild ass assertions anybody else may care to make, or are you going to give us detail of how the £3m was arrived at and how exactly all of it is being covered? I'll help you out as you are clearly just sat there making stuff up without doing any research whatsoever. Here you go, Premier League Financial Package
Now, get your calculator out, work out what Rovers share is, ask Wael why he didn't declare that this was coming off of the £3m and get back to us. Or is it that it was actually more than £3m and it netted down to £3m after this was subtracted, but that's not what was said in his letter. It shouldn't be this hard when talking to someone who claims to have access to information direct from the FC. Over to you. Not sure £375K is going to make that much difference? Why would Wael overstate the losses given that the figure will eventually be confirmed in our end of year accounts for this year? If he'd said £2m rather than £3m it would still be a large sum of money to lose. We have no idea where the figures will fall, how any of it will be covered, how much of it will relate to his ridiculous behaviour with appointing and dismissing managers, what the playing staff bill is, what club staff if any have been furloughed, if any additional losses will simply be covered in cash and written off or added to the debt that's secured against the stadium. He may be doing a good thing, I have no idea, we don't have enough information to make any kind of judgement.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2021 20:57:02 GMT
Jees this is hard work. But, Ok lets put to bed, its not that hard.
Back of a fag packet approach:
Income sources: (Guesswork)
Walk up crowd say 1.4m
Match day spend say 250k
Season ticket income 2.0m
Commercial say 150k (depends on contracts)
Corporate match day 700k Mem facilities hire etc 50k
Replaced by: PL Grant Believe it was 350k-400k per club?
PL loan - Think about 300k per club was available to apply for but Repayable over 3 years I think. Dont know if we applied or not. Non season ticket I follow passes say 350k ?
Possibly some nice season ticket holders not asking for refund on this seasons Season Ticket, (less any I follow passes) ? unknown. God knows what that figure would be, impossible to tell at this stage
So no one is going to get a detailed breakdown, so this would be why 'est' is in the letter.
Not hard to get to 3million estimate is it??
Now I will respecfully remind you that in the other thread you said "fair play if Wael covered the £3m" - admittedly because you thought we had failed to get BI insurance cover before realising it was not available so you couldnt use that particular stick to beat him after all. So now you are trying to do a U turn, but floundering big time and are digging an ever deepening hole.
Good that you have acknowledged his good work and kindness all the same, before said U turn.
Enjoy the easter eggs
All just numbers pulled out of thin air. What crowd projections are you working on given that our scheduled defeat to Doncaster will give Wael the bragging rights of having orchestrated the worst home record in our entire history, ever? Get some figures and come back to us. Until then you are holding an empty sack. I stand by what I said. Demonstrate what the additional losses are, demonstrate that he has personally covered them without securing the money against the stadium, and I'll be grateful to him. One person has said that business interruption insurance isn't available for football clubs, that may well be the case, I don't know either way, but unlike you I try not to make statements unless I know them to be verifiable, now of course there are occasions when I'm sloppy with what I write and am happy to be corrected, but in this instance you made the original positive assertion, I've challenged you to demonstrate that what you said is accurate. Honestly it's not as difficult as you are making it.
Christ almighty this is never ending, its painful.
3500 season ticket holders, 2000/2500 walk up etc etc, 600 meals per game @£60, all that kind of stuff. Pretty easy for an estimate.
BUT
The letter said £3m est, if you are getting arsy about whats in the letter you need to show at least a tad of evidence as to why its wrong - thats how it works. Unless all that kind of stuff has turned on its heads on this forum (a bit like Guilty until proved Innocent)
Best of luck in your quest
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Post by swissgas on Apr 2, 2021 21:01:34 GMT
Not sure £375K is going to make that much difference? Why would Wael overstate the losses given that the figure will eventually be confirmed in our end of year accounts for this year? If he'd said £2m rather than £3m it would still be a large sum of money to lose. We have no idea where the figures will fall, how any of it will be covered, how much of it will relate to his ridiculous behaviour with appointing and dismissing managers, what the playing staff bill is, what club staff if any have been furloughed, if any additional losses will simply be covered in cash and written off or added to the debt that's secured against the stadium. He may be doing a good thing, I have no idea, we don't have enough information to make any kind of judgement. In his open letter from November last year Wael said that due to the pandemic losses were “set to increase by at least £ 2 million and this number will continue to rise”. So the £ 3 million he mentions in this latest letter must be on top of the usual trading losses. We could be looking at a £ 4 million loss for 19/20 and £ 5 million for 20/21.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2021 21:13:10 GMT
We have no idea where the figures will fall, how any of it will be covered, how much of it will relate to his ridiculous behaviour with appointing and dismissing managers, what the playing staff bill is, what club staff if any have been furloughed, if any additional losses will simply be covered in cash and written off or added to the debt that's secured against the stadium. He may be doing a good thing, I have no idea, we don't have enough information to make any kind of judgement. In his open letter from November last year Wael said that due to the pandemic losses were “set to increase by at least £ 2 million and this number will continue to rise”. So the £ 3 million he mentions in this latest letter must be on top of the usual trading losses. We could be looking at a £ 4 million loss for 19/20 and £ 5 million for 20/21.
Would think that wont be far out Swiss.
Whilst you are there perhaps you can just run through the calc for the £3m Covid loss - you can prob do it in 2 mins but some seem to having a bit of trouble
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2021 22:14:28 GMT
All just numbers pulled out of thin air. What crowd projections are you working on given that our scheduled defeat to Doncaster will give Wael the bragging rights of having orchestrated the worst home record in our entire history, ever? Get some figures and come back to us. Until then you are holding an empty sack. I stand by what I said. Demonstrate what the additional losses are, demonstrate that he has personally covered them without securing the money against the stadium, and I'll be grateful to him. One person has said that business interruption insurance isn't available for football clubs, that may well be the case, I don't know either way, but unlike you I try not to make statements unless I know them to be verifiable, now of course there are occasions when I'm sloppy with what I write and am happy to be corrected, but in this instance you made the original positive assertion, I've challenged you to demonstrate that what you said is accurate. Honestly it's not as difficult as you are making it.
Christ almighty this is never ending, its painful.
3500 season ticket holders, 2000/2500 walk up etc etc, 600 meals per game @£60, all that kind of stuff. Pretty easy for an estimate.
BUT
The letter said £3m est, if you are getting arsy about whats in the letter you need to show at least a tad of evidence as to why its wrong - thats how it works. Unless all that kind of stuff has turned on its heads on this forum (a bit like Guilty until proved Innocent)
Best of luck in your quest
Totally incorrect. I didn't make the original claim, so have no burden to substantiate the figure, all I've done is ask that the number be demonstrated to be approximately correct. At the outset you didn't even appear to be aware of the 3 funding streams available via PL funding, they could well be worth in excess of half a million pounds in cash plus interest free loans, if you aren't aware of half a million quid cash then you maybe aren't to be taken too seriously. So I'll ask yet again, what does Wael's £3m represent, is an adjustment made to offset this PL money, was there a reduction in ground advertising revenue this year or did Gorringe pull a rabbit out of a hat and somehow increase it, there are 100 questions, you can't actually answer a single one, all you can do is list about 10 figures that you are guessing. And you have no idea just how low gates would be by now, so what exactly are you basing those match day revenue figures on? You don't even appear to be able to confirm whether additional losses will be lent and secured against the stadium or not. Of course, your guesses may be penny perfect, but do you know what, that's exactly what they are, guesses using numbers you've just made up because something Wael said has been challenged, so be a good lad and just admit that you don't actually have any data and are just making it all up.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2021 22:17:28 GMT
We have no idea where the figures will fall, how any of it will be covered, how much of it will relate to his ridiculous behaviour with appointing and dismissing managers, what the playing staff bill is, what club staff if any have been furloughed, if any additional losses will simply be covered in cash and written off or added to the debt that's secured against the stadium. He may be doing a good thing, I have no idea, we don't have enough information to make any kind of judgement. In his open letter from November last year Wael said that due to the pandemic losses were “set to increase by at least £ 2 million and this number will continue to rise”. So the £ 3 million he mentions in this latest letter must be on top of the usual trading losses. We could be looking at a £ 4 million loss for 19/20 and £ 5 million for 20/21. If those figures are broadly correct and all of that debt is secured against the stadium there can't be any equity left now. This is where it suddenly gets real for Wael.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2021 8:27:44 GMT
Christ almighty this is never ending, its painful.
3500 season ticket holders, 2000/2500 walk up etc etc, 600 meals per game @£60, all that kind of stuff. Pretty easy for an estimate.
BUT
The letter said £3m est, if you are getting arsy about whats in the letter you need to show at least a tad of evidence as to why its wrong - thats how it works. Unless all that kind of stuff has turned on its heads on this forum (a bit like Guilty until proved Innocent)
Best of luck in your quest
Totally incorrect. I didn't make the original claim, so have no burden to substantiate the figure, all I've done is ask that the number be demonstrated to be approximately correct. At the outset you didn't even appear to be aware of the 3 funding streams available via PL funding, they could well be worth in excess of half a million pounds in cash plus interest free loans, if you aren't aware of half a million quid cash then you maybe aren't to be taken too seriously. So I'll ask yet again, what does Wael's £3m represent, is an adjustment made to offset this PL money, was there a reduction in ground advertising revenue this year or did Gorringe pull a rabbit out of a hat and somehow increase it, there are 100 questions, you can't actually answer a single one, all you can do is list about 10 figures that you are guessing. And you have no idea just how low gates would be by now, so what exactly are you basing those match day revenue figures on? You don't even appear to be able to confirm whether additional losses will be lent and secured against the stadium or not. Of course, your guesses may be penny perfect, but do you know what, that's exactly what they are, guesses using numbers you've just made up because something Wael said has been challenged, so be a good lad and just admit that you don't actually have any data and are just making it all up.
The dawn of a new day and still this wont go away.
Why are you asking me this stuff ? You need to be asking the club, its their accounts. Im just a fan. But just to make it clear: The letter says its an estimate. Its ongoing. The season is still with us. The accounts close at the end of June. They will be published in around 10 months or so I would imagine. So if you are seeking the breakdown of whats likely to be in those accounts at this point then best of luck. (tip - dont ever become an auditor)
You may claim my figures are guesses and you may be partly right. They are calculated estimates based on 23 matches of lost income after 2 minutes of thought as to what that would include but its obvious to everyone that £3m is not an unreasonable estimate.
Im going to close this down on my side now on the basis that
a) Its like debating with a brick wall b) You will change your position once you dig youself into a hole anyway (as shown by your previous "If Wael is covering the £3m then fair play to him" comment before you changed 180 degrees) c) The good people of this forum will be going insane reading the drivel (as I am)
But fear not, you have 10 months to get the figures (to the penny) that you want. You've also got 10 months to find out football clubs wont have Business Interuption insurance cover for lost matchday income due to a global pandemic, however much you want to blame someone at BRFC for that. (tip - dont ever work in insurance either)
So lots of time for you to seek what you want, in between coming up with reasons to blame WAQ for global poverty or something.
Enjoy and take it easy, and try and chill
I'm claiming a technical Knock Out
Cheerio
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2021 10:18:06 GMT
Totally incorrect. I didn't make the original claim, so have no burden to substantiate the figure, all I've done is ask that the number be demonstrated to be approximately correct. At the outset you didn't even appear to be aware of the 3 funding streams available via PL funding, they could well be worth in excess of half a million pounds in cash plus interest free loans, if you aren't aware of half a million quid cash then you maybe aren't to be taken too seriously. So I'll ask yet again, what does Wael's £3m represent, is an adjustment made to offset this PL money, was there a reduction in ground advertising revenue this year or did Gorringe pull a rabbit out of a hat and somehow increase it, there are 100 questions, you can't actually answer a single one, all you can do is list about 10 figures that you are guessing. And you have no idea just how low gates would be by now, so what exactly are you basing those match day revenue figures on? You don't even appear to be able to confirm whether additional losses will be lent and secured against the stadium or not. Of course, your guesses may be penny perfect, but do you know what, that's exactly what they are, guesses using numbers you've just made up because something Wael said has been challenged, so be a good lad and just admit that you don't actually have any data and are just making it all up.
The dawn of a new day and still this wont go away.
Why are you asking me this stuff ? You need to be asking the club, its their accounts. Im just a fan. But just to make it clear: The letter says its an estimate. Its ongoing. The season is still with us. The accounts close at the end of June. They will be published in around 10 months or so I would imagine. So if you are seeking the breakdown of whats likely to be in those accounts at this point then best of luck. (tip - dont ever become an auditor)
You may claim my figures are guesses and you may be partly right. They are calculated estimates based on 23 matches of lost income after 2 minutes of thought as to what that would include but its obvious to everyone that £3m is not an unreasonable estimate.
Im going to close this down on my side now on the basis that
a) Its like debating with a brick wall b) You will change your position once you dig youself into a hole anyway (as shown by your previous "If Wael is covering the £3m then fair play to him" comment before you changed 180 degrees) c) The good people of this forum will be going insane reading the drivel (as I am)
But fear not, you have 10 months to get the figures (to the penny) that you want. You've also got 10 months to find out football clubs wont have Business Interuption insurance cover for lost matchday income due to a global pandemic, however much you want to blame someone at BRFC for that. (tip - dont ever work in insurance either)
So lots of time for you to seek what you want, in between coming up with reasons to blame WAQ for global poverty or something.
Enjoy and take it easy, and try and chill
I'm claiming a technical Knock Out
Cheerio
Sorry but you still aren't answering the basic questions to be able to establish whether £3m is anywhere near accurate and how it's being covered. You can't, because you don't know, but aren't capable of admitting it. We've established that you weren't aware of or had forgotten the PL money, so that raises a very real question, is it 3.5m gross or 3m gross, to me half a million quid is kind of important. You said this, Even you ended it with a question mark, so appeared to understand that it may not be great at all if he secures more debt against the stadium and this finally pushes Rovers to a point where there's zero equity left, where's he's literally lost everything that we have. But you carry on supporting him, he's doing a grand job. Don't you think that those interest free PL loans should be investigated to see what the terms are? Maybe they have been, but for the last 5 years we get told nothing whilst Wael continues on this relentless and foolhardy path towards bankrupting Rovers. But OK, you are right, I'm wrong, Wael rocks and despite every shred of available evidence suggesting otherwise he'll have Rovers in the Championship and making a profit any day now, so I take back all that nasty and mean stuff I said about him and concede the entire argument. You win.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Apr 3, 2021 11:14:28 GMT
So what’s the sum up then? I’ll have a go.
1. We haven’t seen the accounts yet, but we suspect there has been massive culture of waste last 18 months. Signings of wanted players are expensive, with like paying agents for all the help they have given.
2. We can’t state what the clubs debt is yet, but we can agree it’s the sort of massive amount if not underwritten or written off its debtors prison for rovers? Bury time.
3. And none of us can state with certainty what, not, or anything Wael is personally writing off?
The only thing I would add is the road to debtor prison is often paved with good intentions. Not everyone taking a club to the wall was Nogbad the Bad - club ownership is a skilled craft, requires lots of ones time dedicated to it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2021 11:20:19 GMT
So what’s the sum up then? I’ll have a go. 1. We haven’t seen the accounts yet, but we suspect there has been massive culture of waste last 18 months. Signings of wanted players are expensive, with like paying agents for all the help they have given. 2. We can’t state what the clubs debt is yet, but we can agree it’s the sort of massive amount if not underwritten or written off its debtors prison for rovers? Bury time. 3. And none of us can state with certainty what, not, or anything Wael is personally writing off? The only thing I would add is the road to debtor prison is often paved with good intentions. Not everyone taking a club to the wall was Nogbad the Bad - club ownership is a skilled craft, requires lots of ones time dedicated to it. This years year end is the end of June. We won't see the accounts for 12/18 months so lots of guesswork and fag packet sums between now and then. June 2020 Accounts are now due which Knowall reminded us of. The accounts were filed late the last time so don't hold your breath incase the same thing happens. Accounts Next accounts made up to 30 June 2020 due by 30 June 2021 Last accounts made up to 30 June 2019
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2021 13:04:39 GMT
So what’s the sum up then? I’ll have a go. 1. We haven’t seen the accounts yet, but we suspect there has been massive culture of waste last 18 months. Signings of wanted players are expensive, with like paying agents for all the help they have given. 2. We can’t state what the clubs debt is yet, but we can agree it’s the sort of massive amount if not underwritten or written off its debtors prison for rovers? Bury time. 3. And none of us can state with certainty what, not, or anything Wael is personally writing off? The only thing I would add is the road to debtor prison is often paved with good intentions. Not everyone taking a club to the wall was Nogbad the Bad - club ownership is a skilled craft, requires lots of ones time dedicated to it. It's exactly this, you've summed it up nicely. We have no idea what's happening, so why anybody would want to thank Wael for anything that's happened in the last 12 months is difficult to understand. Maybe he will chuck in this claimed £3m or so and want nothing in return, in which case fair play to him, but it's been real hard work trying to get one of his primary apologists to even want to dig into the numbers honestly and try to understand what they may represent and then how the money may be entered into the accounts. I keep thinking this through and arrive at the charge on the stadium, unless there's something that I'm reading incorrectly that protects Wael's position, no problem with that in isolation, but as far as I'm aware Rovers haven't been given security of tenure, and that combined with the charge and the incredible rate at which losses are mounting is a massive red flag that should worry us all.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
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Post by eppinggas on Apr 4, 2021 8:34:35 GMT
Looks like @contradiction has done a 'knowall', come in, thrown a few grenades and now gone off as he has had a little more in depth questioning. Obviously his way of showing 'total and utter respect' to the rest of us inquisitive posters..... Oh well, to the next grenade throw...... Some of us have busy jobs and busy lives, and this is just a minor and incidental forum well down the list of priorities.
And I don't think I've had 'in depth questioning' either to be honest, just more of 'Swiss was on the board, he must be taken seriously' (even if it was 30 odd years ago in a different world of paying peanuts, no commercial needs, no agents, a vibrant transfer market, no social media, no need for training grounds or backroom staff, and where you could just about make income and expenditure match. That world doesn't exist any more however hard you work, and Swiss talks boll*x) I'm not going to do what you suggested, quite frankly I cannot be ars*d. I'm just a fan who asks questions and does some digging, always have done. The info is out there if you try and look hard enough, but best not be swayed by people claiming to know stuff on internet forums. Its pretty obvious there wont be balanced comments from quite a few, including my mate Swiss of course, as every post is anti Wael. Its a pointless excercise that bit is obvious. Also pretty obvious that Joey B*****'s history will mean that for some, it will be impossible to comment in a balanced way. We could win the last 8 games and it wouldn't make a difference. I'm pretty bored to be honest. People can make up the own minds. Its only a non consequential fans form and got important stuff to do.1. Marvellous that you've been able to find a few spare minutes in your inordinately busy life to find time to post. Looks like the Forum has moved up your priority list of things to do. Hoorah. 2. Your 'digging' does not appear to have come up with any factual evidence. Top tip. If you want to back up an argument, and come to some kind of logical conclusion, utilising agreed facts and figures will help build your credibility. A bit like Swiss does. 3. "Its only a non consequential fans form and got important stuff to do." Has it become consequential? Have fun with the important stuff.
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