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Post by Portishead Pirate on Feb 18, 2022 16:14:23 GMT
I wasn't referring to recent results, although that is a plus point, I was reflecting on his general demeanor. I don't think any of us are exposed enough to him at close quarters (thankfully) to determine his general demeanor. I would agree his interviews appear better considered. But then he did it again with his pseudo psychology points about "only positive people" and "the difficulty of life" whatever that actually means. Does he mean conception? Gestation? Who knows, because it's a meaningless statement. Perhaps he meant "the difficulties of everyday life". We can only guess. It's just another example of utter BS coming out of his mouth. I can only go on what I see. I believe he undoubtedly did mean "the difficulties of everyday life" and whilst ideally we would wish for a more eloquent speaker I personally am not hung up on that in a football manager. In relation to his wider audience and getting "bums on seats" he needs to read the room and I think by and large he's now succeeding.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 6,776
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Post by oldie on Feb 18, 2022 16:14:40 GMT
Easier perhaps to define it. Thus: "Narcissistic personality disorder — one of several types of personality disorders — is a mental condition in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for excessive attention and admiration, troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others. But behind this mask of extreme confidence lies a fragile self-esteem that's vulnerable to the slightest criticism." Recognise any of that? No,that's just lazy and too easy I'm afraid. Examples? Or perhaps drop such accusation. I don't need to. It's blindingly obvious, to all that see. You appear blinded by something, I don't know what. Move on.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 6,776
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Post by oldie on Feb 18, 2022 16:18:26 GMT
I don't think any of us are exposed enough to him at close quarters (thankfully) to determine his general demeanor. I would agree his interviews appear better considered. But then he did it again with his pseudo psychology points about "only positive people" and "the difficulty of life" whatever that actually means. Does he mean conception? Gestation? Who knows, because it's a meaningless statement. Perhaps he meant "the difficulties of everyday life". We can only guess. It's just another example of utter BS coming out of his mouth. I can only go on what I see. I believe he undoubtedly did mean "the difficulties of everyday life" and whilst ideally we would wish for a more eloquent speaker I personally am not hung up on that in a football manager. In relation to his wider audience and getting "bums on seats" he needs to read the room and I think by and large he's now succeeding. Just to round this off, nor am I hung up on eloquence. It's the pretence at understanding some psychological point and pontificating on it. Whilst talking gibberish.
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basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
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Post by basel on Feb 18, 2022 16:23:31 GMT
No,that's just lazy and too easy I'm afraid. Examples? Or perhaps drop such accusation. I don't need to. It's blindingly obvious, to all that see. You appear blinded by something, I don't know what. Move on. So we just have to take your amateur psychiatrist word for it. Hmm,poor Oldie. Very poor.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 6,776
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Post by oldie on Feb 18, 2022 16:43:45 GMT
I don't need to. It's blindingly obvious, to all that see. You appear blinded by something, I don't know what. Move on. So we just have to take your amateur psychiatrist word for it. Hmm,poor Oldie. Very poor. It's there for all to see Basel. Just be happy in your blind allegiance.
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basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
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Post by basel on Feb 18, 2022 16:47:08 GMT
So we just have to take your amateur psychiatrist word for it. Hmm,poor Oldie. Very poor. It's there for all to see Basel. Just be happy in your blind allegiance. My "allegiance " is to Rovers. I know JB makes mistakes. Just one example of narcissitic speak from JB please.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,515
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Post by eppinggas on Feb 18, 2022 21:46:31 GMT
For those who dislike the fact that the club employed Barton, assuming the owners etc stay, how can they return once Barton departs. Does the club suddenly have the previous values or have they gone for good? Two very good questions N2O, and both of which I have asked myself. 1. I guess it will depend on the circumstances under which Barton leaves. My gut feeling is I won't be at the Mem 'as soon as' Barton leaves. It depends how the senior management team handle it. A full mea culpa from Wael Al-Qadi would get me back pretty damn quick - though I fear this is very unlikely. So months, years? I honestly don't know. Does the culture need to change? Yes. 2. Values. You intimate that we have 'lost' something over the last year or so. Of course I totally agree with you. I want to feel proud of the Club. At the moment I feel embarrassed. Disconnected. Some people will scream "then why not go to BS3 or Swindle"? To those people I say "go forth and multiply, you don't get to tell me how I feel". Don't get me wrong - there are some good examples, the stuff that the Bristol Rovers Community Trust do is fantastic. I strongly identify with what they do. But I'm struggling away from that. It's probably worthy of it's own thread: What values do you think the Club has? And do those values reflect yours? If they don't - what exactly are you supporting exactly? I value things like equality, honesty, integrity, decency, respect, sportsmanship. None of these look like Rovers to me right now. If your core value extends to "I just want Rovers to be successful and I don't care how they achieve it". Then fine. It's a free country.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2022 22:42:02 GMT
For those who dislike the fact that the club employed Barton, assuming the owners etc stay, how can they return once Barton departs. Does the club suddenly have the previous values or have they gone for good? Two very good questions N2O, and both of which I have asked myself. 1. I guess it will depend on the circumstances under which Barton leaves. My gut feeling is I won't be at the Mem 'as soon as' Barton leaves. It depends how the senior management team handle it. A full mea culpa from Wael Al-Qadi would get me back pretty damn quick - though I fear this is very unlikely. So months, years? I honestly don't know. Does the culture need to change? Yes. 2. Values. You intimate that we have 'lost' something over the last year or so. Of course I totally agree with you. I want to feel proud of the Club. At the moment I feel embarrassed. Disconnected. Some people will scream "then why not go to BS3 or Swindle"? To those people I say "go forth and multiply, you don't get to tell me how I feel". Don't get me wrong - there are some good examples, the stuff that the Bristol Rovers Community Trust do is fantastic. I strongly identify with what they do. But I'm struggling away from that. It's probably worthy of it's own thread: What values do you think the Club has? And do those values reflect yours? If they don't - what exactly are you supporting exactly? I value things like equality, honesty, integrity, decency, respect, sportsmanship. None of these look like Rovers to me right now.If your core value extends to "I just want Rovers to be successful and I don't care how they achieve it". Then fine. It's a free country. Hi Epping
I hope you are well.
This is interesting:
Equality. Should we talk about central income distribution within the football pyramid? Or the number of black managers in the pro game. Or the number of Asian supporters? Or the abuse females can get at stadiums in the name of 'banter' that lead to the brilliant 'her game too' movement.
Honesty. Players & managers say what they think supporters want to hear. We know this, dont we? We dont really expect press conferences to say player X has had a barny with player Y, and there is a real bad team spirit and that there are problems in the dressing room? Or that player A hates the manager and gets stroppy sometimes?
Integrity. Players dive. They win penalties by diving. They practice the dark arts. They seek to gain every tiny advantage, privately promoted by the manager. They time waste. We want them to time waste (when we are winning). We abuse the opposition for time wasting (when we are losing). Us supporters cheer when we get dodgy penalties. We abuse the ref when we concede a dodgy pen.
Respect. We call the ref a w*nker on a regular basis. We abuse the opposition. We intimidate when we can. We cheer mistakes by the opposition. How often do we ever applaud an opposition goal?
Sportsmanship. Would we ever propose 'giving' the opposition a goal if the ref get got it wrong with a penalty? Nope, we take it and gloat.
Just simple examples of pro football, and fan culture that goes across the board.
Not one of the above is Rovers related. None of it is JB related.
I will say one thing about JB though. He says too much. But, for his faults, JB tells it as it is. No sugar coating. Sometimes he is too honest IMHO, which makes people uncomfortable. But - players like honesty, and its why they respond to him and why there is such a good team spirit.
Perhaps some of the above needs a bit of reconciling with the values that you list. (all of which I agree with by the way buts not going to stop me supporting the gas and playing my part in terrace culture)
Take JB out the equation and you should still have the same internal conflict??
Its not a Rovers thing by the sound of it.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,515
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Post by eppinggas on Feb 20, 2022 9:43:36 GMT
Two very good questions N2O, and both of which I have asked myself. 1. I guess it will depend on the circumstances under which Barton leaves. My gut feeling is I won't be at the Mem 'as soon as' Barton leaves. It depends how the senior management team handle it. A full mea culpa from Wael Al-Qadi would get me back pretty damn quick - though I fear this is very unlikely. So months, years? I honestly don't know. Does the culture need to change? Yes. 2. Values. You intimate that we have 'lost' something over the last year or so. Of course I totally agree with you. I want to feel proud of the Club. At the moment I feel embarrassed. Disconnected. Some people will scream "then why not go to BS3 or Swindle"? To those people I say "go forth and multiply, you don't get to tell me how I feel". Don't get me wrong - there are some good examples, the stuff that the Bristol Rovers Community Trust do is fantastic. I strongly identify with what they do. But I'm struggling away from that. It's probably worthy of it's own thread: What values do you think the Club has? And do those values reflect yours? If they don't - what exactly are you supporting exactly? I value things like equality, honesty, integrity, decency, respect, sportsmanship. None of these look like Rovers to me right now.If your core value extends to "I just want Rovers to be successful and I don't care how they achieve it". Then fine. It's a free country. Hi Epping
I hope you are well.
This is interesting:
Equality. Should we talk about central income distribution within the football pyramid? Or the number of black managers in the pro game. Or the number of Asian supporters? Or the abuse females can get at stadiums in the name of 'banter' that lead to the brilliant 'her game too' movement.
Honesty. Players & managers say what they think supporters want to hear. We know this, dont we? We dont really expect press conferences to say player X has had a barny with player Y, and there is a real bad team spirit and that there are problems in the dressing room? Or that player A hates the manager and gets stroppy sometimes?
Integrity. Players dive. They win penalties by diving. They practice the dark arts. They seek to gain every tiny advantage, privately promoted by the manager. They time waste. We want them to time waste (when we are winning). We abuse the opposition for time wasting (when we are losing). Us supporters cheer when we get dodgy penalties. We abuse the ref when we concede a dodgy pen.
Respect. We call the ref a w*nker on a regular basis. We abuse the opposition. We intimidate when we can. We cheer mistakes by the opposition. How often do we ever applaud an opposition goal?
Sportsmanship. Would we ever propose 'giving' the opposition a goal if the ref get got it wrong with a penalty? Nope, we take it and gloat.
Just simple examples of pro football, and fan culture that goes across the board.
Not one of the above is Rovers related. None of it is JB related.
I will say one thing about JB though. He says too much. But, for his faults, JB tells it as it is. No sugar coating. Sometimes he is too honest IMHO, which makes people uncomfortable. But - players like honesty, and its why they respond to him and why there is such a good team spirit.
Perhaps some of the above needs a bit of reconciling with the values that you list. (all of which I agree with by the way buts not going to stop me supporting the gas and playing my part in terrace culture)
Take JB out the equation and you should still have the same internal conflict??
Its not a Rovers thing by the sound of it.
Morning contradiction - I'm not in great shape after a cycling accident (hence the delay in responding) - I hope you are doing better than me. There has been some petty bickering and name-calling on the Forum over the last couple of months. To the point where we're discussing whether it will continue at all. I know we very rarely agree (on anything!) but your response was measured and I thought very interesting. Just because we disagree, doesn't mean we have to be rude to each other. OK - I threw out those adjectives with, I would admit, not a lot of thought. But I'm glad you share them. I am comfortable that they are my core values. Is football across the board moving away from these 'founding principles'? Unequivocally yes. Of course it's even worse at premiers**t level, but it has obviously filtered down the leagues. Are Rovers any 'worse' than others? On balance, probably not. I thought we used to be a bit better than 'the rest'. Hey ho. The problem, as ever, returns once more to Barton. Barton, 'the face' of Bristol Rovers. It's my core values vs those which Barton displays which are at play here. Wael has his faults, don't get me wrong - but on balance, I think we're lucky to have him. But I'll never forgive him for hiring this character. Maybe 'Barton's Bristol Rovers' can get to the premiers**t. I do not care. I won't be there to see it. Perhaps I am too Corinthian spirited. I hate it when we cheat/dive/con the referee. A win by cheating is fine for most, but it leaves me empty. We disagree on that one. I accept I'm in a tiny minority. I spend most Saturdays watching the Essex Senior League tier 9 (step 5) football. In general it much better reflects the principles listed above. The vast majority of games are played in good spirit. Just two Clubs that have spoilt my entertainment this season. Made me annoyed. Sawbridgeworth Town. Thugs on the pitch, swearing aggressive thugs in the dug out. Them and St Margaretsbury. The St Margaretsbury bench spent the entire 90 minutes abusing the match officials and the West Essex team and management. It was disgusting. Tiny crowd, with a smattering of children. Did they want to hear their manager screaming at the opposition manager? "Oy you, you f******g ugly ***t. I'll f******g sort out later. You f******g ***t. Yeah, you and your f**king assistant, you bunch of f*****g ****s". Crikey. I think you've cracked it contradiction. Thank you. (Footnote. Anyone who enjoyed the result yesterday, particularly those that who made the trip, I am genuinely very pleased that you had a great day out. That's tough in Stevenage.) Regards, Epping.
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Post by a more piratey game on Feb 20, 2022 10:21:12 GMT
"Oy you, you f******g ugly ***t. I'll f******g sort out later. You f******g ***t. Yeah, you and your f**king assistant, you bunch of f**king ***t". on the other hand, if Joeybag's looking for an assistant..
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,515
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Post by eppinggas on Feb 20, 2022 10:51:49 GMT
"Hatred" (as previously discussed by others) is an inappropriate word to use. However I am repulsed by the Clubs decision to hire someone as manager who has a long history of violence. I am angry now, just as I was when he was appointed on Feb 22nd 2021. The thing is, you can't ringfence the money that goes from my wallet to the Club. I'm not allowing 1p of my money to go towards paying Barton's salary. Period. A trip to the Mem usually costs me around £75 in petrol alone. Anyway, to Rovers lost revenue - Ticket POTD £19. Beers pre & post game £16 (unless the bar prices have gone up again). Rovers merch / shirts around £150 a year. I'm saving tons. I normally go with my son (he is 'Barton neutral'). He's not gone since I've stopped going. I think, on balance, that 200 (non-attending) is on the low side. It's probably not more than 500. It's a moot point. I think that £100k potential revenue a year could well be on the low side. Obviously not enough to make any difference though. Wael Al-Qadi funds the losses regardless. For that he deserves credit. But I'm not going to help cover the losses (in my own tiny way) whilst he sticks with his bizarre decision to appoint Barton in the first place. Are you saying you believe him to be beyond redemption, unable to have a positive impact or to make up for his wrongdoings? If so, what place in society should he have? Apologies for the delay in getting back to you and for a long response to a short question. Redemption: Barton is quite a complex character. I feel sorry for him (bear with) in as much as he has reportedly had a very troubled upbringing. The dog incident. His brother. I've not read his book, but I am sure there are other examples that would have deeply effected him (particularly in his formative years). Just two examples of violent, deeply disturbing episodes in Barton's life. These are not his fault. His future behaviour and the consequences of his behaviour ARE his fault. No need to go through them all again. He has to take responsibility for these. So - is Barton beyond redemption? No. Some people are inherently evil and beyond help. Bring back capital punishment I say. But I think that there is still hope for Barton. But surely the road to redemption has to start with an admission of your own problems. Show some remorse for previous indiscretions. Face up to your demons. I understand he underwent anger management therapy about 15 years ago. That would appear to have not worked. If Barton is currently undergoing therapy, then I unreservedly apologise. I think if he was, that would be in the public domain. It would certainly help 'the cause' if it was, and I would applaud it. But without professional help then I believe it is only a question of time before we see violence used again. Sorry - Inherently violent people don't just 'change'. There is a pattern to their behaviour. They have to break that pattern. Positive impact: Given decent crowds and a "top 6" budget, we are still underperforming. Undoubtedly there has been a turnaround in form since the first 10 or so games of the season and credit should go to Barton for this. (Is 'typing through a gritted keyboard' a thing?) Make up for his wrong doings: I would genuinely like to hear how closely Barton works with the Community Trust. Does anyone have any links? (I'm not taking the piss). This would appear to be an excellent conduit for him Place in Society (senior management position, role model). Barton a Bristol Rovers manager? If he faces his demons, accepts his previous mistakes, takes responsibility for them - accepts he needs professional help and undergoes a programme of rehabilitation... Then, on balance, why not. Regards.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,354
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 20, 2022 12:55:18 GMT
Hi Epping
I hope you are well.
This is interesting:
Equality. Should we talk about central income distribution within the football pyramid? Or the number of black managers in the pro game. Or the number of Asian supporters? Or the abuse females can get at stadiums in the name of 'banter' that lead to the brilliant 'her game too' movement.
Honesty. Players & managers say what they think supporters want to hear. We know this, dont we? We dont really expect press conferences to say player X has had a barny with player Y, and there is a real bad team spirit and that there are problems in the dressing room? Or that player A hates the manager and gets stroppy sometimes?
Integrity. Players dive. They win penalties by diving. They practice the dark arts. They seek to gain every tiny advantage, privately promoted by the manager. They time waste. We want them to time waste (when we are winning). We abuse the opposition for time wasting (when we are losing). Us supporters cheer when we get dodgy penalties. We abuse the ref when we concede a dodgy pen.
Respect. We call the ref a w*nker on a regular basis. We abuse the opposition. We intimidate when we can. We cheer mistakes by the opposition. How often do we ever applaud an opposition goal?
Sportsmanship. Would we ever propose 'giving' the opposition a goal if the ref get got it wrong with a penalty? Nope, we take it and gloat.
Just simple examples of pro football, and fan culture that goes across the board.
Not one of the above is Rovers related. None of it is JB related.
I will say one thing about JB though. He says too much. But, for his faults, JB tells it as it is. No sugar coating. Sometimes he is too honest IMHO, which makes people uncomfortable. But - players like honesty, and its why they respond to him and why there is such a good team spirit.
Perhaps some of the above needs a bit of reconciling with the values that you list. (all of which I agree with by the way buts not going to stop me supporting the gas and playing my part in terrace culture)
Take JB out the equation and you should still have the same internal conflict??
Its not a Rovers thing by the sound of it.
Morning contradiction - I'm not in great shape after a cycling accident (hence the delay in responding) - I hope you are doing better than me. There has been some petty bickering and name-calling on the Forum over the last couple of months. To the point where we're discussing whether it will continue at all. I know we very rarely agree (on anything!) but your response was measured and I thought very interesting. Just because we disagree, doesn't mean we have to be rude to each other. OK - I threw out those adjectives with, I would admit, not a lot of thought. But I'm glad you share them. I am comfortable that they are my core values. Is football across the board moving away from these 'founding principles'? Unequivocally yes. Of course it's even worse at premiers**t level, but it has obviously filtered down the leagues. Are Rovers any 'worse' than others? On balance, probably not. I thought we used to be a bit better than 'the rest'. Hey ho. The problem, as ever, returns once more to Barton. Barton, 'the face' of Bristol Rovers. It's my core values vs those which Barton displays which are at play here. Wael has his faults, don't get me wrong - but on balance, I think we're lucky to have him. But I'll never forgive him for hiring this character. Maybe 'Barton's Bristol Rovers' can get to the premiers**t. I do not care. I won't be there to see it. Perhaps I am too Corinthian spirited. I hate it when we cheat/dive/con the referee. A win by cheating is fine for most, but it leaves me empty. We disagree on that one. I accept I'm in a tiny minority. I spend most Saturdays watching the Essex Senior League tier 9 (step 5) football. In general it much better reflects the principles listed above. The vast majority of games are played in good spirit. Just two Clubs that have spoilt my entertainment this season. Made me annoyed. Sawbridgeworth Town. Thugs on the pitch, swearing aggressive thugs in the dug out. Them and St Margaretsbury. The St Margaretsbury bench spent the entire 90 minutes abusing the match officials and the West Essex team and management. It was disgusting. Tiny crowd, with a smattering of children. Did they want to hear their manager screaming at the opposition manager? "Oy you, you f******g ugly ***t. I'll f******g sort out later. You f******g ***t. Yeah, you and your f**king assistant, you bunch of f*****g ****s". Crikey. I think you've cracked it contradiction. Thank you. (Footnote. Anyone who enjoyed the result yesterday, particularly those that who made the trip, I am genuinely very pleased that you had a great day out. That's tough in Stevenage.) Regards, Epping. I share that Corinthian spirit Ian, to the point where i came second in a fencing competition by telling the judge that i had been hit but that the machine did not buzz to acknowledge, i got beat 5-4 at Clifton college but the applause i got, when picking up my 2nd place medal was rapturous, i was 15 and fencing men. My parents were so proud and it changed how the judges were , in later competitions as i wasn’t exactly welcomed to the fencing community , coming from a Polish fencing club and being a skinhead as well. I still have that medal and i do sometimes think should i have kept quiet but i just couldn’t. Prior to this, i got regularly cheated out of finals but this changed it all.
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Post by Portishead Pirate on Feb 21, 2022 14:05:37 GMT
Are you saying you believe him to be beyond redemption, unable to have a positive impact or to make up for his wrongdoings? If so, what place in society should he have? Apologies for the delay in getting back to you and for a long response to a short question. Redemption: Barton is quite a complex character. I feel sorry for him (bear with) in as much as he has reportedly had a very troubled upbringing. The dog incident. His brother. I've not read his book, but I am sure there are other examples that would have deeply effected him (particularly in his formative years). Just two examples of violent, deeply disturbing episodes in Barton's life. These are not his fault. His future behaviour and the consequences of his behaviour ARE his fault. No need to go through them all again. He has to take responsibility for these. So - is Barton beyond redemption? No. Some people are inherently evil and beyond help. Bring back capital punishment I say. But I think that there is still hope for Barton. But surely the road to redemption has to start with an admission of your own problems. Show some remorse for previous indiscretions. Face up to your demons. I understand he underwent anger management therapy about 15 years ago. That would appear to have not worked. If Barton is currently undergoing therapy, then I unreservedly apologise. I think if he was, that would be in the public domain. It would certainly help 'the cause' if it was, and I would applaud it. But without professional help then I believe it is only a question of time before we see violence used again. Sorry - Inherently violent people don't just 'change'. There is a pattern to their behaviour. They have to break that pattern. Positive impact: Given decent crowds and a "top 6" budget, we are still underperforming. Undoubtedly there has been a turnaround in form since the first 10 or so games of the season and credit should go to Barton for this. (Is 'typing through a gritted keyboard' a thing?) Make up for his wrong doings: I would genuinely like to hear how closely Barton works with the Community Trust. Does anyone have any links? (I'm not taking the piss). This would appear to be an excellent conduit for him Place in Society (senior management position, role model). Barton a Bristol Rovers manager? If he faces his demons, accepts his previous mistakes, takes responsibility for them - accepts he needs professional help and undergoes a programme of rehabilitation... Then, on balance, why not. Regards. Thanks for the detailed response EG and I hope you're on the mend from your cycling accident. I was out cycling yesterday (only up past Redcliffe Bay to Clevedon and back) and it's treacherous out there! We're not privy to what rehabilitation he might be undertaking and I'm not convinced the wider support base would necessarily benefit from knowing - and if it was in the public domain it would no doubt be picked apart on social media. I don't have any expertise to comment on inherently violent people and behaviour patterns but being under the microscope that he is under now there's nowhere to hide of course. Results are improving and there is a clear sign that the playing squad has unity, and with the management team. Quality/style of play and consistency is better too, lapses like Oldham excepted of course. So I see real positives there. Agreed, the Community Trust would be the perfect vehicle to be involved in. I'm not sure of the current make up of the management team there following the recent trustee resignations but Adam Tutton and his team appear to be doing a fine job. As it stands, I'm "happy" to see how this plays out with events (football related or otherwise) dictating events. Appreciate yours and others' stances of course. Cheers UTG
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2022 17:05:04 GMT
Hi Epping
I hope you are well.
This is interesting:
Equality. Should we talk about central income distribution within the football pyramid? Or the number of black managers in the pro game. Or the number of Asian supporters? Or the abuse females can get at stadiums in the name of 'banter' that lead to the brilliant 'her game too' movement.
Honesty. Players & managers say what they think supporters want to hear. We know this, dont we? We dont really expect press conferences to say player X has had a barny with player Y, and there is a real bad team spirit and that there are problems in the dressing room? Or that player A hates the manager and gets stroppy sometimes?
Integrity. Players dive. They win penalties by diving. They practice the dark arts. They seek to gain every tiny advantage, privately promoted by the manager. They time waste. We want them to time waste (when we are winning). We abuse the opposition for time wasting (when we are losing). Us supporters cheer when we get dodgy penalties. We abuse the ref when we concede a dodgy pen.
Respect. We call the ref a w*nker on a regular basis. We abuse the opposition. We intimidate when we can. We cheer mistakes by the opposition. How often do we ever applaud an opposition goal?
Sportsmanship. Would we ever propose 'giving' the opposition a goal if the ref get got it wrong with a penalty? Nope, we take it and gloat.
Just simple examples of pro football, and fan culture that goes across the board.
Not one of the above is Rovers related. None of it is JB related.
I will say one thing about JB though. He says too much. But, for his faults, JB tells it as it is. No sugar coating. Sometimes he is too honest IMHO, which makes people uncomfortable. But - players like honesty, and its why they respond to him and why there is such a good team spirit.
Perhaps some of the above needs a bit of reconciling with the values that you list. (all of which I agree with by the way buts not going to stop me supporting the gas and playing my part in terrace culture)
Take JB out the equation and you should still have the same internal conflict??
Its not a Rovers thing by the sound of it.
Morning contradiction - I'm not in great shape after a cycling accident (hence the delay in responding) - I hope you are doing better than me. There has been some petty bickering and name-calling on the Forum over the last couple of months. To the point where we're discussing whether it will continue at all. I know we very rarely agree (on anything!) but your response was measured and I thought very interesting. Just because we disagree, doesn't mean we have to be rude to each other. OK - I threw out those adjectives with, I would admit, not a lot of thought. But I'm glad you share them. I am comfortable that they are my core values. Is football across the board moving away from these 'founding principles'? Unequivocally yes. Of course it's even worse at premiers**t level, but it has obviously filtered down the leagues. Are Rovers any 'worse' than others? On balance, probably not. I thought we used to be a bit better than 'the rest'. Hey ho. The problem, as ever, returns once more to Barton. Barton, 'the face' of Bristol Rovers. It's my core values vs those which Barton displays which are at play here. Wael has his faults, don't get me wrong - but on balance, I think we're lucky to have him. But I'll never forgive him for hiring this character. Maybe 'Barton's Bristol Rovers' can get to the premiers**t. I do not care. I won't be there to see it. Perhaps I am too Corinthian spirited. I hate it when we cheat/dive/con the referee. A win by cheating is fine for most, but it leaves me empty. We disagree on that one. I accept I'm in a tiny minority. I spend most Saturdays watching the Essex Senior League tier 9 (step 5) football. In general it much better reflects the principles listed above. The vast majority of games are played in good spirit. Just two Clubs that have spoilt my entertainment this season. Made me annoyed. Sawbridgeworth Town. Thugs on the pitch, swearing aggressive thugs in the dug out. Them and St Margaretsbury. The St Margaretsbury bench spent the entire 90 minutes abusing the match officials and the West Essex team and management. It was disgusting. Tiny crowd, with a smattering of children. Did they want to hear their manager screaming at the opposition manager? "Oy you, you f******g ugly ***t. I'll f******g sort out later. You f******g ***t. Yeah, you and your f**king assistant, you bunch of f*****g ****s". Crikey. I think you've cracked it contradiction. Thank you. (Footnote. Anyone who enjoyed the result yesterday, particularly those that who made the trip, I am genuinely very pleased that you had a great day out. That's tough in Stevenage.) Regards, Epping. Hope you are fighting fit soon Epping, and also that you rediscover your appetite to visit the Mem
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2022 18:11:54 GMT
Get well/fit soon Mr Admin.
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Post by alftupper on Feb 21, 2022 18:45:06 GMT
Get well/fit soon Mr Admin. Absolutely. As a keen runner/cyclist/drinker, I find it doesn`t take much inactivity for my fitness levels to drop. Hope you`re back on the bike soon.
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warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,561
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Post by warehamgas on Feb 21, 2022 20:17:48 GMT
As above get well soon Epping. Interesting to get your take on the two clubs you mentioned in the Essex Senior League. I’m presuming if you heard it so must everyone else in the near vicinity. And that might have included any ESL officials. Does no one take any notice of behaviour which sounds extreme? The odd swear word is something, that sounds something very different. I’ve seen a few Dorset County League and Wessex League matches and have heard nothing like that.
UTG!
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,515
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Post by eppinggas on Feb 22, 2022 7:01:45 GMT
Morning contradiction - I'm not in great shape after a cycling accident (hence the delay in responding) - I hope you are doing better than me. There has been some petty bickering and name-calling on the Forum over the last couple of months. To the point where we're discussing whether it will continue at all. I know we very rarely agree (on anything!) but your response was measured and I thought very interesting. Just because we disagree, doesn't mean we have to be rude to each other. OK - I threw out those adjectives with, I would admit, not a lot of thought. But I'm glad you share them. I am comfortable that they are my core values. Is football across the board moving away from these 'founding principles'? Unequivocally yes. Of course it's even worse at premiers**t level, but it has obviously filtered down the leagues. Are Rovers any 'worse' than others? On balance, probably not. I thought we used to be a bit better than 'the rest'. Hey ho. The problem, as ever, returns once more to Barton. Barton, 'the face' of Bristol Rovers. It's my core values vs those which Barton displays which are at play here. Wael has his faults, don't get me wrong - but on balance, I think we're lucky to have him. But I'll never forgive him for hiring this character. Maybe 'Barton's Bristol Rovers' can get to the premiers**t. I do not care. I won't be there to see it. Perhaps I am too Corinthian spirited. I hate it when we cheat/dive/con the referee. A win by cheating is fine for most, but it leaves me empty. We disagree on that one. I accept I'm in a tiny minority. I spend most Saturdays watching the Essex Senior League tier 9 (step 5) football. In general it much better reflects the principles listed above. The vast majority of games are played in good spirit. Just two Clubs that have spoilt my entertainment this season. Made me annoyed. Sawbridgeworth Town. Thugs on the pitch, swearing aggressive thugs in the dug out. Them and St Margaretsbury. The St Margaretsbury bench spent the entire 90 minutes abusing the match officials and the West Essex team and management. It was disgusting. Tiny crowd, with a smattering of children. Did they want to hear their manager screaming at the opposition manager? "Oy you, you f******g ugly ***t. I'll f******g sort out later. You f******g ***t. Yeah, you and your f**king assistant, you bunch of f*****g ****s". Crikey. I think you've cracked it contradiction. Thank you. (Footnote. Anyone who enjoyed the result yesterday, particularly those that who made the trip, I am genuinely very pleased that you had a great day out. That's tough in Stevenage.) Regards, Epping. Hope you are fighting fit soon Epping, and also that you rediscover your appetite to visit the Mem Thank you. At the moment I aspire to just getting my appetite back!
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,515
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Post by eppinggas on Feb 22, 2022 7:02:27 GMT
Get well/fit soon Mr Admin. Thank you - appreciated...
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,515
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Post by eppinggas on Feb 22, 2022 7:08:27 GMT
Get well/fit soon Mr Admin. Absolutely. As a keen runner/cyclist/drinker, I find it doesn`t take much inactivity for my fitness levels to drop. Hope you`re back on the bike soon.
Broken clavicle - not a massive injury - but no cycling or driving for 6-8 weeks. This after 10 days Covid self-isolation. My hopes of making the Tour de France would appear to be receding. The clavicle is on the mend. The chest infection I picked up is about 10 X more painful. Cheers!
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