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Post by sethstarkadder on Nov 12, 2021 20:52:27 GMT
DEAR OH DEAR OH DEAR...!? Some of you should really have a look at yourselves.. It appears from the pics at today's memorial, JAB wore a poppy pin badge (at 11 o'clock position to the club motif) that was Bristol Rovers/poppy. It can be clearly seen in pictures in link. Whilst we all understand objective criticism, fake news on a sensitive subject, at a sensitive time just comes across as tasteless. mobile.twitter.com/joey7bartonToo late, they're already erecting the gallows on Horfield Common. I haven’t been in this discussion so I don’t know if I count as ‘they’ here, but for the record I don’t want gallows, nor do I want him in any part of Horfield. I want him to head down Hortham Lane, turn north, keep going, and not come back. That’s because the club brings itself into disrepute by his being here, he’s a constant embarrassment and hopeless football manager, and that all stood long before this year’s wearing of poppies.
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Angas
Joined: May 2014
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Post by Angas on Nov 12, 2021 20:53:49 GMT
I'm not embarrassed by what I posted on this thread. I am embarrassed that JB is anything to do with our club. Appointing him is the poor show imo.
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Post by Bath Gas on Nov 12, 2021 22:17:34 GMT
I'm not embarrassed by what I posted on this thread. I am embarrassed that JB is anything to do with our club. Appointing him is the poor show imo. Admitting to our own mistakes, (and we all make them), enables us to see the bigger picture, with a more objective mindset.
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Angas
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Post by Angas on Nov 12, 2021 22:58:06 GMT
Meaning?
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 15, 2021 9:35:20 GMT
Too late, they're already erecting the gallows on Horfield Common. I haven’t been in this discussion so I don’t know if I count as ‘they’ here, but for the record I don’t want gallows, nor do I want him in any part of Horfield. I want him to head down Hortham Lane, turn north, keep going, and not come back. That’s because the club brings itself into disrepute by his being here, he’s a constant embarrassment and hopeless football manager, and that all stood long before this year’s wearing of poppies. Just in case the Barton satnav isn't working. Left out of the Quarters. Left down the A38. Almondsbury interchange, M5 north. And never come back.
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Post by Bath Gas on Nov 15, 2021 9:41:41 GMT
I haven’t been in this discussion so I don’t know if I count as ‘they’ here, but for the record I don’t want gallows, nor do I want him in any part of Horfield. I want him to head down Hortham Lane, turn north, keep going, and not come back. That’s because the club brings itself into disrepute by his being here, he’s a constant embarrassment and hopeless football manager, and that all stood long before this year’s wearing of poppies. Just in case the Barton satnav isn't working. Left out of the Quarters. Left down the A38. Almondsbury interchange, M5 north. And never come back. Good point - he may well have got a dodgy satnav from one of his Scouse mates!
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Post by CabbagePatchBlues on Nov 15, 2021 10:02:39 GMT
I'm not embarrassed by what I posted on this thread. I am embarrassed that JB is anything to do with our club. Appointing him is the poor show imo. Admitting to our own mistakes, (and we all make them), enables us to see the bigger picture, with a more objective mindset. Are you implying that his tendency to impulsively lash out at anything that triggers him is not psychotically induced, but a simple mistake he makes now and then, something we should learn to tolerate? Good luck with that one.
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Post by Bath Gas on Nov 15, 2021 10:22:35 GMT
Admitting to our own mistakes, (and we all make them), enables us to see the bigger picture, with a more objective mindset. Are you implying that his tendency to impulsively lash out at anything that triggers him is not psychotically induced, but a simple mistake he makes now and then, something we should learn to tolerate? Good luck with that one. Not at all - doing this is something that everbody can learn from, whether or not they chose to act upon what they learn is down to the individual mindset. Some people think that they are never wrong in their own little world.
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knowall
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Post by knowall on Nov 15, 2021 12:38:16 GMT
In ALL spheres in life, those at the top should demand respect from everyone. Unfortunately, someone with the background as per J Barton can only expect respect in some aspects of his life, and as such, however good he is as a football team manager, there needs to be a decision as to whether other aspects of his life are detrimental to his position in the Football Club.
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Post by CabbagePatchBlues on Nov 15, 2021 12:43:11 GMT
In ALL spheres in life, those at the top should demand respect from everyone. Unfortunately, someone with the background as per J Barton can only expect respect in some aspects of his life, and as such, however good he is as a football team manager, there needs to be a decision as to whether other aspects of his life are detrimental to his position in the Football Club. You can't demand respect, you have to earn it regardless of how near the "top" you happen to be. Forelocks went out of fashion with the workhouses :-)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2021 13:04:58 GMT
In ALL spheres in life, those at the top should demand respect from everyone. Unfortunately, someone with the background as per J Barton can only expect respect in some aspects of his life, and as such, however good he is as a football team manager, there needs to be a decision as to whether other aspects of his life are detrimental to his position in the Football Club. You can demand whatever you like, that doesn't mean you are going to get, or indeed that you are entitled to anything. Respect is earned. Did you mean command respect? In this case, I respect Barton's ability as an elite level footballer, and that's where it ends.
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 20, 2021 12:29:12 GMT
Shame the EFL don't have a "fit and proper" test for managers. That would have saved us a lot of kerfuffle.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Nov 20, 2021 18:20:37 GMT
Shame the EFL don't have a "fit and proper" test for managers. That would have saved us a lot of kerfuffle. Thing is, if you're referring to previous convictions, they're spent and rehabilitation laws actually make it discriminatory. If you're referring to current potential convictions, it's innocent until proven guilty. If you're referring to his character, I kinda empathise, but like I've posted before what a brilliant opportunity to change his life around (when first appointed) away from home influences? If you're referring to management achievements, he did steer a league one club into the play offs, but hasn't won anything. If you're referring to something else, well, who knows?
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 21, 2021 10:21:47 GMT
Shame the EFL don't have a "fit and proper" test for managers. That would have saved us a lot of kerfuffle. Thing is, if you're referring to previous convictions, they're spent and rehabilitation laws actually make it discriminatory. If you're referring to current potential convictions, it's innocent until proven guilty. If you're referring to his character, I kinda empathise, but like I've posted before what a brilliant opportunity to change his life around (when first appointed) away from home influences? If you're referring to management achievements, he did steer a league one club into the play offs, but hasn't won anything. If you're referring to something else, well, who knows? OK - let's do this one at a time. "Thing is, if you're referring to previous convictions, they're spent and rehabilitation laws actually make it discriminatory". www.sterlingcheck.co.uk/resources/compliance/rehabilitation-offenders-act/The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (ROA) was introduced in order to protect individuals who are convicted of minor, one time offences from future discrimination. The ROA enables certain convictions to become ‘spent’, or ignored, after a ‘rehabilitation period’. A rehabilitation period is a set length of time from the date of conviction. After this period, with certain exceptions, an ex-offender is not normally obliged to disclose the conviction when applying for a job, obtaining insurance, or when involved in criminal or civil proceedings. Once a conviction has become spent, the individual can, for most intents and purposes, truthfully declare that they do not have a criminal record. Employers cannot legally ask candidates about spent convictions and cannot consider spent convictions in their recruitment decisions.So the law is designed to protect criminals from not having to disclose their criminal past after the rehabilitation period has been spent. Fair enough. The last sentence goes further, as you say, it is against the law to discriminate against someone with a criminal record in the recruitment process. (Though let's face it, an employer could come up with any number of excuses not to hire and not reference a criminal past). Anyway - it would appear to be a moot point. The employer in this instance is Wael Al-Qadi, not the EFL. The EFL is the governing body. THE EFL has their rules about what they deem to be "fit and proper" for an owner. I was hypothesizing about how that rule could also be applied to the managers position. Anyway - only a fool would touch Barton with a barge pole. Oh. Hang on.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Nov 21, 2021 10:28:56 GMT
Thing is, if you're referring to previous convictions, they're spent and rehabilitation laws actually make it discriminatory. If you're referring to current potential convictions, it's innocent until proven guilty. If you're referring to his character, I kinda empathise, but like I've posted before what a brilliant opportunity to change his life around (when first appointed) away from home influences? If you're referring to management achievements, he did steer a league one club into the play offs, but hasn't won anything. If you're referring to something else, well, who knows? OK - let's do this one at a time. "Thing is, if you're referring to previous convictions, they're spent and rehabilitation laws actually make it discriminatory". www.sterlingcheck.co.uk/resources/compliance/rehabilitation-offenders-act/The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (ROA) was introduced in order to protect individuals who are convicted of minor, one time offences from future discrimination. The ROA enables certain convictions to become ‘spent’, or ignored, after a ‘rehabilitation period’. A rehabilitation period is a set length of time from the date of conviction. After this period, with certain exceptions, an ex-offender is not normally obliged to disclose the conviction when applying for a job, obtaining insurance, or when involved in criminal or civil proceedings. Once a conviction has become spent, the individual can, for most intents and purposes, truthfully declare that they do not have a criminal record. Employers cannot legally ask candidates about spent convictions and cannot consider spent convictions in their recruitment decisions.So the law is designed to protect criminals from not having to disclose their criminal past after the rehabilitation period has been spent. Fair enough. The last sentence goes further, as you say, it is against the law to discriminate against someone with a criminal record in the recruitment process. (Though let's face it, an employer could come up with any number of excuses not to hire and not reference a criminal past). Anyway - it would appear to be a moot point. The employer in this instance is Wael Al-Qadi, not the EFL. The EFL is the governing body. THE EFL has their rules about what they deem to be "fit and proper" for an owner. I was hypothesizing about how that rule could also be applied to the managers position. Anyway - only a fool would touch Barton with a barge pole. Oh. Hang on. Yes, you've quoted me literally and the law is pretty literal. I was empathising with that law, with the hope, far reaching hope, that reform, remorse, offered help might make a difference. I disagree with your fool analysis. It appears to not allow for offenders right to be rehabilitated, which JAB deserves. I think it's unfair, discriminatory to still hold counsel and him (or anyone) to rights over spent convictions.
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 21, 2021 10:49:38 GMT
OK - let's do this one at a time. "Thing is, if you're referring to previous convictions, they're spent and rehabilitation laws actually make it discriminatory". www.sterlingcheck.co.uk/resources/compliance/rehabilitation-offenders-act/The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (ROA) was introduced in order to protect individuals who are convicted of minor, one time offences from future discrimination. The ROA enables certain convictions to become ‘spent’, or ignored, after a ‘rehabilitation period’. A rehabilitation period is a set length of time from the date of conviction. After this period, with certain exceptions, an ex-offender is not normally obliged to disclose the conviction when applying for a job, obtaining insurance, or when involved in criminal or civil proceedings. Once a conviction has become spent, the individual can, for most intents and purposes, truthfully declare that they do not have a criminal record. Employers cannot legally ask candidates about spent convictions and cannot consider spent convictions in their recruitment decisions.So the law is designed to protect criminals from not having to disclose their criminal past after the rehabilitation period has been spent. Fair enough. The last sentence goes further, as you say, it is against the law to discriminate against someone with a criminal record in the recruitment process. (Though let's face it, an employer could come up with any number of excuses not to hire and not reference a criminal past). Anyway - it would appear to be a moot point. The employer in this instance is Wael Al-Qadi, not the EFL. The EFL is the governing body. THE EFL has their rules about what they deem to be "fit and proper" for an owner. I was hypothesizing about how that rule could also be applied to the managers position. Anyway - only a fool would touch Barton with a barge pole. Oh. Hang on. Yes, you've quoted me literally and the law is pretty literal. I was empathising with that law, with the hope, far reaching hope, that reform, remorse, offered help might make a difference. I disagree with your fool analysis. It appears to not allow for offenders right to be rehabilitated, which JAB deserves. I think it's unfair, discriminatory to still hold counsel and him (or anyone) to rights over spent convictions. I think we will have to agree to disagree. Leopards don't change their spots. Not without some kind of behavioural management therapy. His family history and his own long list of indiscretions lead me to believe he struggles with multiple demons. Alcohol abuse, violence, compulsive gambling have all been documented. I sincerely hope Barton does receive therapy and is able to fully rehabilitate. To understand that he is responsible for his actions. In an ideal world he undertakes this process well away from Bristol Rovers FC. You are a lot more forgiving than me. I agree with the gist of the last sentence. But in the real world - a potential employee is never going to be totally free from discrimination against previous convictions, spent or not. Regards, cynical bar steward.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2021 10:53:01 GMT
Genuine question:
Does anyone actually know whether the manager is undertaking any therapy/treatment for his anger issues?
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baselswh
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Post by baselswh on Nov 21, 2021 10:58:07 GMT
Genuine question: Does anyone actually know whether the manager is undertaking any therapy/treatment for his anger issues? I don't know DrF,but I hope so. I think Joe bright enough to understand and stop that behaviour. People in his position can turn it around. They of course must be prepared to look into it and into themselves.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Nov 21, 2021 11:10:46 GMT
Yes, you've quoted me literally and the law is pretty literal. I was empathising with that law, with the hope, far reaching hope, that reform, remorse, offered help might make a difference. I disagree with your fool analysis. It appears to not allow for offenders right to be rehabilitated, which JAB deserves. I think it's unfair, discriminatory to still hold counsel and him (or anyone) to rights over spent convictions. I think we will have to agree to disagree. Leopards don't change their spots. Not without some kind of behavioural management therapy. His family history and his own long list of indiscretions lead me to believe he struggles with multiple demons. Alcohol abuse, violence, compulsive gambling have all been documented. I sincerely hope Barton does receive therapy and is able to fully rehabilitate. To understand that he is responsible for his actions. In an ideal world he undertakes this process well away from Bristol Rovers FC. You are a lot more forgiving than me. I agree with the gist of the last sentence. But in the real world - a potential employee is never going to be totally free from discrimination against previous convictions, spent or not. Regards, cynical bar steward. I understand your post stance. While the debate is focusing in convictions for violence and extended family, very rarely is it mentioned JAB served a ban for betting scandal!? I mean, come on!? Crimes of violence v crimes of financial gain? Unforgivable....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2021 11:12:19 GMT
Genuine question: Does anyone actually know whether the manager is undertaking any therapy/treatment for his anger issues? I don't know DrF,but I hope so. I think Joe bright enough to understand and stop that behaviour. People in his position can turn it around. They of course must be prepared to look into it and into themselves. Based on what we heard about Exeter, if he is receiving professional help, it doesn't seem to be working yet. Bright. Are you sure? Anybody who views the population with such contempt that they claim to be more intelligent than 97% of people has already displayed a shocking lack of self awareness and a rather unpleasant narcissistic streak. The thing about that being, it's highly unlikely that anybody from the top 3% of most intelligent people would possess such poor judgement as to make such a crass remark.
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