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Post by chelt_gas on Oct 24, 2021 10:06:27 GMT
So it's "OK" to equate a player having a poor game of football with the deaths of around 6 million Jews in Nazi Germany. Right, got it. How much lower can this disgusting character go? I guess we have to wait until next week. But he didn’t intend to do that did he? He just misspoke because he does do the media element of the job so poorly. Those managers who handle the media well say an awful lot less, stick to the point, polite about everyone even those managers they hate playing mind games with them, and don’t try to be too clever. Joey does media the opposite of all that, it’s one of his poor suits as manager. He miss spoke so reign in all that offended malarkey. Not a great choice of word to use but he wasn’t intending to cause offence. I bet he was oblivious to it until the reactions on the forum. Similar case to when pardew likened being tackled to being raped. But his team was dogs**te yet again. He’s a crap manager and not a leader of men. Get rid please.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2021 11:08:29 GMT
But he didn’t intend to do that did he? He just misspoke because he does do the media element of the job so poorly. Those managers who handle the media well say an awful lot less, stick to the point, polite about everyone even those managers they hate playing mind games with them, and don’t try to be too clever. Joey does media the opposite of all that, it’s one of his poor suits as manager. He miss spoke so reign in all that offended malarkey. Not a great choice of word to use but he wasn’t intending to cause offence. I bet he was oblivious to it until the reactions on the forum. Similar case to when pardew likened being tackled to being raped. But his team was dogs***e yet again. He’s a crap manager and not a leader of men. Get rid please. Yea right, we all use that word casually in conversation every day, don't we. Yet again he's tried to be clever and ended up making himself look the exact opposite. Yet again social media is all over it and the name of our club is associated with it. This is exactly what I warned about from day 1. You can spend a lifetime building a good reputation, and a moment destroying it.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2021 11:24:43 GMT
Ah well, I must be "woke" or whatever puerile insult anyone wants to throw, as equating the performance of a player or team to the holocaust, absolutely offends me.
Barton is an out and out disgrace and should be nowhere near our great club.
Barton out.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2021 11:28:40 GMT
Ah well, I must be "woke" or whatever puerile insult anyone wants to throw, as equating the performance of a player or team to the holocaust, absolutely offends me. Barton is an out and out disgrace and should be nowhere near our great club. Barton out. He should never have been near the club because of his previous and pending misdemeanours. Everything else that has happened, pending or been said since just endorses that opinion. Barton Out, should never have been here in the first place.
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Post by sethstarkadder on Oct 24, 2021 11:45:35 GMT
But he didn’t intend to do that did he? He just misspoke because he does do the media element of the job so poorly. Those managers who handle the media well say an awful lot less, stick to the point, polite about everyone even those managers they hate playing mind games with them, and don’t try to be too clever. Joey does media the opposite of all that, it’s one of his poor suits as manager. He miss spoke so reign in all that offended malarkey. Not a great choice of word to use but he wasn’t intending to cause offence. I bet he was oblivious to it until the reactions on the forum. Similar case to when pardew likened being tackled to being raped. But his team was dogs***e yet again. He’s a crap manager and not a leader of men. Get rid please. What’s overlooked in all the assessment of how offensive or self-pitying or self-indulgent or whatever his comments are is that it all fills a space where something sensible should be, and isn’t. There’s no tactical analysis of why his football team was solidly beaten by (on this occasion) Newport County, which might be grounds to believe that someone capable is on the case and things might improve. He’s got nothing sensible to say. More grounds why he’s not management material. [See also other high profile figures who are supposed to provide vision and leadership, but that’s not the issue here]
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Oct 24, 2021 12:01:44 GMT
He does and thank you for the correction, as I misrepresented him. It was still a vile comment though and yep, he's more than a prat. Barton out. “Vile comment” An odd word to use post match interview. People could think you are referring to the Holocaust not a Holocaust, because “A” holocaust 1. destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, especially caused by fire or nuclear war 2. a Jewish sacrificial offering that was burned completely on an altar. “The” Holocaust. The genocide of European Jews during World War II. Between 1941 and 1945. Holocaust maybe shouldn’t be used for the genocide of Jews anyway, in this current climate of revisiting terms to get the sensitivity right, its use in this way may well be cancelled IMO. Shoah, Hebrew meaning catastrophe should be used. Why? The word Holocaust is derived from the Greek holokauston, a translation of the Hebrew word olah, meaning a burnt sacrifice offered whole to God. Christian society tend to use Greek for Hebrew, for this reason the lost in translation could create the insensitivity. The theological and historical nature of the word "holocaust" is inappropriate term for the genocide of the Jews as it implies a "burnt offering" to God. It was not the intention of the Nazis to make a sacrifice of this kind and the position of the Jews was not that of a ritual victim was it? Cancel the use of Holocaust and use Shoah. I’m quite shocked Joey didn’t go as far to explain all this in the interview. He does like to warble on like a know all. What are such people like? It stems from the language of the Roman Empire was Greek, for commercial reasons. The first Christian documents, Paul’s letters, were written in Greek. But this Greek word Holocaust for a Hebrew word for burning a ritual sacrifice is a very poor choice of word for genocide of European Jews during World War II. At best it doesn’t make any literal sense to call the genocide a ritual burning, at worst it’s insensitive and a tad ignorant. My prediction is it will be used less in future, with a coalesce around Shoah. Nuclear Holocaust though, would still remain a relevant term.
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Post by toteend3 on Oct 24, 2021 12:03:17 GMT
My take on this, is provided the team could show some consistency in their general performances, and in the process collect enough points to keep away from the 'trap door'
Then JB will have earned the right to stay on as manager - Well at least until the Courts decide on his fate.
We have got a competent and willing group of players, however one good showing is usually followed by a bad one. As it's predominantly the same players getting selected each week so why the 'Jeckle and Hyde' performances?
There does now seem to be a consensus that previously pro JB supporters,are also harbouring doubts, regarding JB's management skills or lack of them
Maybe his shortcomings have been found out , and his call for the "'twelfth man' ito bail him out is a sign of desperation - what next 'thirteenth man and yet it could have been so different had we not imploded in the last few minutes at Colchester
Also comparing the mass murder of. Millions in a football context is ridiculous
Me thinks the End is nigh!
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warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,561
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Post by warehamgas on Oct 24, 2021 13:08:23 GMT
Can’t really see what WAQ is doing but I think he’s playing a waiting game until November when he may be able to act without it costing him too much. Whatever WAQs thinking it certainly looks like we’re moving towards some kind of resolution. We’re getting very poor results, the fan base seems to be talking more about the manager than the football, JBs reactions to anything seem random and ill-thought out and we’re looking at the bottom rather than the top of League 2. I hope the seriousness of the situation isn’t lost on WAQ. This will only end one way. I only hope that WAQs lack of action doesn’t come back to haunt the football club later on this season.
UTG!
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Oct 24, 2021 13:21:41 GMT
“Vile comment” An odd word to use post match interview. People could think you are referring to the Holocaust not a Holocaust, because “A” holocaust 1. destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, especially caused by fire or nuclear war 2. a Jewish sacrificial offering that was burned completely on an altar. “The” Holocaust. The genocide of European Jews during World War II. Between 1941 and 1945. Holocaust maybe shouldn’t be used for the genocide of Jews anyway, in this current climate of revisiting terms to get the sensitivity right, its use in this way may well be cancelled IMO. Shoah, Hebrew meaning catastrophe should be used. Why? The word Holocaust is derived from the Greek holokauston, a translation of the Hebrew word olah, meaning a burnt sacrifice offered whole to God. Christian society tend to use Greek for Hebrew, for this reason the lost in translation could create the insensitivity. The theological and historical nature of the word "holocaust" is inappropriate term for the genocide of the Jews as it implies a "burnt offering" to God. It was not the intention of the Nazis to make a sacrifice of this kind and the position of the Jews was not that of a ritual victim was it? Cancel the use of Holocaust and use Shoah. I’m quite shocked Joey didn’t go as far to explain all this in the interview. He does like to warble on like a know all. What are such people like? It stems from the language of the Roman Empire was Greek, for commercial reasons. The first Christian documents, Paul’s letters, were written in Greek. But this Greek word Holocaust for a Hebrew word for burning a ritual sacrifice is a very poor choice of word for genocide of European Jews during World War II. At best it doesn’t make any literal sense to call the genocide a ritual burning, at worst it’s insensitive and a tad ignorant. My prediction is it will be used less in future, with a coalesce around Shoah. Nuclear Holocaust though, would still remain a relevant term. A further advantage of moving away from the Greco-Christian Holocaust to, perhaps, Shoah, or Hurban which may even have been used before Holocaust was used. is we currently have Holocaust as both ‘a’ Holocaust, destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, especially caused by fire or nuclear war, from (apparently, though it doesn’t seem good use of the word translated from) a Jewish sacrificial offering that was burned completely on an altar, with the more recent ‘the Holocaust’, genocide of European Jews during World War II, if the latter being retired for sensitivity leaves no excuse for confusion. It’s the Christian dominated society’s which need to be woke on this one in the main. IMPORTANT NOTE: I’m not offering this as any excuse for any offence caused in yet another of Barton’s poor pressers.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Oct 24, 2021 15:38:44 GMT
Um....there was a Holocaust of any poor soul in Nagasaki or Hiroshima too.
Or, Dresden.
I take the point of 'THE' holocaust as opposed to 'A' Holocaust....but in the free speech nation, it's crass, poor analogy and tasteless but JAB is entitled to say it.
I think while we're concentrating on this, we're missing a trick - JAB picked some wrong players tasked to perform a certain way, and his chosen substitutions were just as poor, if not woeful in comparison.
That's the point not being addressed while many of us muse over one word taken out of context.
EDIT....I find it interesting that a previously (maybe contemporary) violent man uses violent language to accentuate a point.
I also find it interesting that there's been at least 3 (this season) altercations on/off pitch involving our players that involve violence, when in previous recent seasons (for instance, since December 2019), I can't remember any?
Are the team following the example of the manager?
Is this the way we want to be known as?
If not, is this indirectly bringing the club into disrepute?
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Post by rideintothesun on Oct 24, 2021 16:05:15 GMT
Um....there was a Holocaust of any poor soul in Nagasaki or Hiroshima too. Or, Dresden. I take the point of 'THE' holocaust as opposed to 'A' Holocaust....but in the free speech nation, it's crass, poor analogy and tasteless but JAB is entitled to say it. I think while we're concentrating on this, we're missing a trick - JAB picked some wrong players tasked to perform a certain way, and his chosen substitutions were just as poor, if not woeful in comparison. That's the point not being addressed while many of us muse over one word taken out of context. EDIT....I find it interesting that a previously (maybe contemporary) violent man uses violent language to accentuate a point. I also find it interesting that there's been at least 3 (this season) altercations on/off pitch involving our players that involve violence, when in previous recent seasons (for instance, since December 2019), I can't remember any? Are the team following the example of the manager? Is this the way we want to be known as? If not, is this indirectly bringing the club into disrepute? Bring the club into disrepute presupposes there is a repute to maintain. Quite clearly, this isn't the case any more. The club has become utterly toxic. John Ward. Paul Tisdale. Darrell Clarke. Would any of them invoke the mass annihilation of human life (and BTW, because of the extent of western cultural and historical awareness and sensitivity around the issue, holocaust is presumed to mean Holocaust (e.g. the event of WW2) unless otherwise explicitly stated) after losing to Newport County? Of course not.
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 2,336
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Post by trymer on Oct 24, 2021 16:10:42 GMT
People should learn to be very careful what they say, so much that used to be OK has a different meaning nowadays.
I read recently that the Rolling Stones will not be 'singing' Brown Sugar at their live events any more because they feel that some people might find the song insensitive.
I think that the owner might be hoping that Barton gets a custodial sentence so that he doesnt have to sack him face to face,I suppose that he could send him a text,or slip a note through his door in the night,Rovers have form for that.
Once Barton goes he wont waste time in dishing the dirt on the board and what's going on behind the scenes at Rovers...or what's not going on.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Oct 24, 2021 16:12:13 GMT
Um....there was a Holocaust of any poor soul in Nagasaki or Hiroshima too. Or, Dresden. I take the point of 'THE' holocaust as opposed to 'A' Holocaust....but in the free speech nation, it's crass, poor analogy and tasteless but JAB is entitled to say it. I think while we're concentrating on this, we're missing a trick - JAB picked some wrong players tasked to perform a certain way, and his chosen substitutions were just as poor, if not woeful in comparison. That's the point not being addressed while many of us muse over one word taken out of context. EDIT....I find it interesting that a previously (maybe contemporary) violent man uses violent language to accentuate a point. I also find it interesting that there's been at least 3 (this season) altercations on/off pitch involving our players that involve violence, when in previous recent seasons (for instance, since December 2019), I can't remember any? Are the team following the example of the manager? Is this the way we want to be known as? If not, is this indirectly bringing the club into disrepute? on your first point, I agree, hence my proposed solution to end confusion. Horishima and Nagasaki are fire bombs, in that sense, but The genocide of European Jews during World War II wasn’t a big firebomb. The original Hebrew word taken into Greek was sacrificial offering that was burned completely on an altar, and that certainly the wrong word, when there more sensitive and literal words in Shoah and Hurban already used by the Jewish people for this genocide - the second word in particular already synonymous with great woe and destruction on the Jewish people which is why it was one of the first words used after the war. Doesn’t Holocaust increasingly seem a strange word to use to describe a football performance as this days gone on? ☹️ Your second point, absolutely, what’s taking people so long to see it as clearly as you? What is it like on the other place today, are they still more pro Barton? Someone ought to tell the other place, according to this place, there might be big news in October. Because the longer the club is remaining silent today without an apology, I don’t think it’s looking good for Barton.
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Post by Bath Gas on Oct 24, 2021 16:12:27 GMT
Um....there was a Holocaust of any poor soul in Nagasaki or Hiroshima too. Or, Dresden. I take the point of 'THE' holocaust as opposed to 'A' Holocaust....but in the free speech nation, it's crass, poor analogy and tasteless but JAB is entitled to say it. I think while we're concentrating on this, we're missing a trick - JAB picked some wrong players tasked to perform a certain way, and his chosen substitutions were just as poor, if not woeful in comparison. That's the point not being addressed while many of us muse over one word taken out of context. EDIT....I find it interesting that a previously (maybe contemporary) violent man uses violent language to accentuate a point. I also find it interesting that there's been at least 3 (this season) altercations on/off pitch involving our players that involve violence, when in previous recent seasons (for instance, since December 2019), I can't remember any? Are the team following the example of the manager? Is this the way we want to be known as? If not, is this indirectly bringing the club into disrepute? Bring the club into disrepute presupposes there is a repute to maintain. Quite clearly, this isn't the case any more. The club has become utterly toxic. John Ward. Paul Tisdale. Darrell Clarke. Would any of them invoke the mass annihilation of human life (and BTW, because of the extent of western cultural and historical awareness and sensitivity around the issue, holocaust is presumed to mean Holocaust (e.g. the event of WW2) unless otherwise explicitly stated) after losing to Newport County? Of course not. I think that most people understand the difference between THE Holocaust and A holocaust - it wasn't a wise choice of analogy, but please, credit others with more intelligence than that.
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 2,336
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Post by trymer on Oct 24, 2021 16:18:12 GMT
I dont rememeber the term 'the holocaust' being used before the TV series in the late 70's. We studied WW2 and National Socialism in history and read about extermination camps,also 'the World at war' was a fantastic documentary series which covered the whole period.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,354
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Post by kingswood Polak on Oct 24, 2021 16:50:01 GMT
Chris Hughton(sp?) is available, steady and not as erratic as our current employee , and reckon would work with what we have without wholesale changes Would he come here? When betting comes up, don’t waste money on Olly, the owner won’t appoint him. I’d just be happy with a trolls back for another go. as a punt though, considering Man City have flopped this season, Could be right moment to approach Gareth Taylor. And add Rodman to coaching staff. It’s the other way around, Ollie could never work with AlQadi and has openly said so
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Oct 24, 2021 16:57:15 GMT
Would he come here? When betting comes up, don’t waste money on Olly, the owner won’t appoint him. I’d just be happy with a trolls back for another go. as a punt though, considering Man City have flopped this season, Could be right moment to approach Gareth Taylor. And add Rodman to coaching staff. It’s the other way around, Ollie could never work with AlQadi and has openly said so I’d love to have him here as director of football, with Gareth or Stewy as Team Manager. What it doesn’t need is Barton simply sacked, the day before he came we still needed a proper football person, preferably who loves the club and committed to the long term, to call the shots. That’s the direction it needs to go, regardless of Barton being paid up?
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Oct 24, 2021 17:04:07 GMT
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Oct 24, 2021 17:11:45 GMT
Just a thought.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,354
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Post by kingswood Polak on Oct 24, 2021 17:15:41 GMT
He miss spoke so reign in all that offended malarkey. Not a great choice of word to use but he wasn’t intending to cause offence. I bet he was oblivious to it until the reactions on the forum. Similar case to when pardew likened being tackled to being raped. But his team was dogs***e yet again. He’s a crap manager and not a leader of men. Get rid please. Yea right, we all use that word casually in conversation every day, don't we. Yet again he's tried to be clever and ended up making himself look the exact opposite. Yet again social media is all over it and the name of our club is associated with it. This is exactly what I warned about from day 1. You can spend a lifetime building a good reputation, and a moment destroying it. I had to learn that in the hardest of way…..long and boring story
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