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Post by swissgas on Jun 6, 2021 16:49:59 GMT
Swiss thanks for the comprehensive reply. Let me put some more context to my comments. On point 2) I was not saying we are success at the moment. We have just been relegated. However to say Higgs was successful is also stretching it. It was under his tenure that we nose dived to non-league and it was only through the excellent work of Darrell Clarke that we got back to league 1. The one thing Higgs got right was supporting DC. However why I believe we are in a better position for success in the long term links to 3 and 5. Higgs may have had credibility with UWE and South Glos Council, but he did not deliver. He was taken in by Sainsbury's (like many others I hasten to add, not just Rovers) and then went on an unwinnable crusade like a sad gambler flipping the last card in Vegas to get his money back. As we all know that often leaves you high and dry (payday loans), which is where we would have been if Wael had not stepped in. With respect to UWE, until someone can definitely tell me that was a good deal for Rovers I'm willing to take Wael at his word, because Higgs definitely did not have a strong bargaining position. Also you only have to look at Coventry what can happen if you do not have the correct rights over your stadium. With respect to a future stadium, I am as fed up as the rest of us, but again lets see what happens over the next 2 years once the Covid block is out of the way. If there are no concrete plans by then I agree major questions should be asked. However where I disagree with you is Wael's access to finance. I think he has good if not better chance than Higgs of getting reputable finance and just just from Wonga. That leads to 5, how you can say we are in a worse financial position under Weal than Higgs makes no sense. He had led us to the brink of bankruptcy, and as I said it was only through Wael stepping in that did not happen. That makes me conclude we would be in a much lower position league wise if Higgs had still been here, even with our relegation, especially with the impact of Covid. We could have easily been another Bury. I know you dispute the debt has been written off, but I have not seen anything that makes me think it hasn't, and yes I have read your posts. Fully agree with you £3M/yr loss is not sustainable, but prior to Covid the club seemed to be making inroads on the debt. The proof now will be what happens over the next couple of years as things open up. so yes I believe we are in a better position than with Higgs. In replying frankly I leave myself open, as usual, to accusations of being “anti Wael” but in your appraisal of the situation regarding the UWE let down what is the reason you “take Wael at his word” and regarding financing a new stadium why do you think Wael has a “better chance” than Nick Higgs ? After five years I should say there are plenty of reasons for being cautious about taking Wael at his word or believing that he has preferential access to finance for a new stadium. The debt situation is quite straightforward. On July 8th 2020 the club announced that 18.4 million of debt in BRFC 1883 Ltd had been capitalised but it hadn’t been. It was capitalised on September 28th 2020 and registered at Companies House on December 8th 2020. However the accounts to 30th June 2019 showed debt of about 20 million so not all the debt was capitalised in 2020. And in the two years since June 2019 the club has run up further debt with Dwane Sports which I estimate will amount to about 12 million. Wael has said he will continue to capitalise debt so perhaps he will tidy up this 12 million later in the year ? You say that prior to COVID the club seemed to be making inroads on the debt. I think this is a reference to Martyn Starnes claim in March last year that he had expected to cut the previous years losses (3.4 million) by half which, even if he did, would still mean the debt was increasing. Nobody challenged him on this but I should be very interested to know how he had taken 140k per month costs out of the business or increased gross profit by a similar amount. The proof of his claim will be in the 2020 accounts which will be 75% pre COVID figures so we shall be able to discern if he really had done it. In your reply you say “let’s see what happens over the next two years” and then “ the proof will be what happens over the next couple of years”. I am sorry to be blunt but that is kicking the can down the road. Sooner or later Rovers will have to confront the issue because if we keep putting it off and pretending all is well it will explode in our face. To console ourselves by thinking that Wael has amassed sufficient personal savings to allow him to fund Rovers losses indefinitely is the equivalent of kicking the can over the Tote End and half way along Stapleton Road.
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Post by holmesgas1 on Jun 6, 2021 19:27:01 GMT
You can't even agree with me that a successful season is worth agreeing on. Put your pride away and stop trying to score points and at least agree on that. There are all sorts of things that we can agree on, being kind to small animals, remembering your Mother's birthday etc, but you are just changing the subject because you've backed yourself into a corner. This has been going on between us for 2 days now and you haven't even attempted to put forward an argument, all you've done is insist that you are right. Based on that it's not unreasonable to conclude that the criticism aimed at both Barton and the people making decisions relating to the running of the club are entirely fair. I put forward many an argument. The debates I'm having with you is like a lawyer I used to employ for contract law issues. Then it was to my advantage to be pedantic about every word. On a football forum I find it rather tiresome.
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Post by holmesgas1 on Jun 6, 2021 19:59:15 GMT
Swiss thanks for the comprehensive reply. Let me put some more context to my comments. On point 2) I was not saying we are success at the moment. We have just been relegated. However to say Higgs was successful is also stretching it. It was under his tenure that we nose dived to non-league and it was only through the excellent work of Darrell Clarke that we got back to league 1. The one thing Higgs got right was supporting DC. However why I believe we are in a better position for success in the long term links to 3 and 5. Higgs may have had credibility with UWE and South Glos Council, but he did not deliver. He was taken in by Sainsbury's (like many others I hasten to add, not just Rovers) and then went on an unwinnable crusade like a sad gambler flipping the last card in Vegas to get his money back. As we all know that often leaves you high and dry (payday loans), which is where we would have been if Wael had not stepped in. With respect to UWE, until someone can definitely tell me that was a good deal for Rovers I'm willing to take Wael at his word, because Higgs definitely did not have a strong bargaining position. Also you only have to look at Coventry what can happen if you do not have the correct rights over your stadium. With respect to a future stadium, I am as fed up as the rest of us, but again lets see what happens over the next 2 years once the Covid block is out of the way. If there are no concrete plans by then I agree major questions should be asked. However where I disagree with you is Wael's access to finance. I think he has good if not better chance than Higgs of getting reputable finance and just just from Wonga. That leads to 5, how you can say we are in a worse financial position under Weal than Higgs makes no sense. He had led us to the brink of bankruptcy, and as I said it was only through Wael stepping in that did not happen. That makes me conclude we would be in a much lower position league wise if Higgs had still been here, even with our relegation, especially with the impact of Covid. We could have easily been another Bury. I know you dispute the debt has been written off, but I have not seen anything that makes me think it hasn't, and yes I have read your posts. Fully agree with you £3M/yr loss is not sustainable, but prior to Covid the club seemed to be making inroads on the debt. The proof now will be what happens over the next couple of years as things open up. so yes I believe we are in a better position than with Higgs. In replying frankly I leave myself open, as usual, to accusations of being “anti Wael” but in your appraisal of the situation regarding the UWE let down what is the reason you “take Wael at his word” and regarding financing a new stadium why do you think Wael has a “better chance” than Nick Higgs ? After five years I should say there are plenty of reasons for being cautious about taking Wael at his word or believing that he has preferential access to finance for a new stadium. The debt situation is quite straightforward. On July 8th 2020 the club announced that 18.4 million of debt in BRFC 1883 Ltd had been capitalised but it hadn’t been. It was capitalised on September 28th 2020 and registered at Companies House on December 8th 2020. However the accounts to 30th June 2019 showed debt of about 20 million so not all the debt was capitalised in 2020. And in the two years since June 2019 the club has run up further debt with Dwane Sports which I estimate will amount to about 12 million. Wael has said he will continue to capitalise debt so perhaps he will tidy up this 12 million later in the year ? You say that prior to COVID the club seemed to be making inroads on the debt. I think this is a reference to Martyn Starnes claim in March last year that he had expected to cut the previous years losses (3.4 million) by half which, even if he did, would still mean the debt was increasing. Nobody challenged him on this but I should be very interested to know how he had taken 140k per month costs out of the business or increased gross profit by a similar amount. The proof of his claim will be in the 2020 accounts which will be 75% pre COVID figures so we shall be able to discern if he really had done it. In your reply you say “let’s see what happens over the next two years” and then “ the proof will be what happens over the next couple of years”. I am sorry to be blunt but that is kicking the can down the road. Sooner or later Rovers will have to confront the issue because if we keep putting it off and pretending all is well it will explode in our face. To console ourselves by thinking that Wael has amassed sufficient personal savings to allow him to fund Rovers losses indefinitely is the equivalent of kicking the can over the Tote End and half way along Stapleton Road. Swiss your just regurgitating the old debt write off argument, which I have already said I don't buy, like a number of others. Also Rovers have been losing money since the 50s and needed a stadium of our own since we sold Eastville to the Greyhound company, so another couple of years wait will not make a lot of difference. Now if you know of people who can invest and solve the problem instantly great, but I assume not, so waiting a little while to see if Wael can deliver seems to be our only option. For me that is not a bad option.
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Post by swissgas on Jun 6, 2021 20:37:58 GMT
In replying frankly I leave myself open, as usual, to accusations of being “anti Wael” but in your appraisal of the situation regarding the UWE let down what is the reason you “take Wael at his word” and regarding financing a new stadium why do you think Wael has a “better chance” than Nick Higgs ? After five years I should say there are plenty of reasons for being cautious about taking Wael at his word or believing that he has preferential access to finance for a new stadium. The debt situation is quite straightforward. On July 8th 2020 the club announced that 18.4 million of debt in BRFC 1883 Ltd had been capitalised but it hadn’t been. It was capitalised on September 28th 2020 and registered at Companies House on December 8th 2020. However the accounts to 30th June 2019 showed debt of about 20 million so not all the debt was capitalised in 2020. And in the two years since June 2019 the club has run up further debt with Dwane Sports which I estimate will amount to about 12 million. Wael has said he will continue to capitalise debt so perhaps he will tidy up this 12 million later in the year ? You say that prior to COVID the club seemed to be making inroads on the debt. I think this is a reference to Martyn Starnes claim in March last year that he had expected to cut the previous years losses (3.4 million) by half which, even if he did, would still mean the debt was increasing. Nobody challenged him on this but I should be very interested to know how he had taken 140k per month costs out of the business or increased gross profit by a similar amount. The proof of his claim will be in the 2020 accounts which will be 75% pre COVID figures so we shall be able to discern if he really had done it. In your reply you say “let’s see what happens over the next two years” and then “ the proof will be what happens over the next couple of years”. I am sorry to be blunt but that is kicking the can down the road. Sooner or later Rovers will have to confront the issue because if we keep putting it off and pretending all is well it will explode in our face. To console ourselves by thinking that Wael has amassed sufficient personal savings to allow him to fund Rovers losses indefinitely is the equivalent of kicking the can over the Tote End and half way along Stapleton Road. Swiss your just regurgitating the old debt write off argument, which I have already said I don't buy, like a number of others. Also Rovers have been losing money since the 50s and needed a stadium of our own since we sold Eastville to the Greyhound company, so another couple of years wait will not make a lot of difference. Now if you know of people who can invest and solve the problem instantly great, but I assume not, so waiting a little while to see if Wael can deliver seems to be our only option. For me that is not a bad option. If you don’t accept that BRFC 1883 Ltd is in debt to Dwane Sports to the tune of about 12 million then can you explain where the cash to cover two years trading losses and pay for the work at the training ground has come from. And I can’t understand why you think losing 3+ million pa under Wael’s ownership is better than losing 1 million pa under Nick Higgs ownership. Wael may be a more likable character than Nick but what else has he done to make you think that way ? When you ask whether I know people who can invest to solve the problems instantly I don’t understand what you mean. Investment is not the problem because over the past five years Rovers have had cash thrown at us like never before but it has all been wasted due to mismanagement. You say to give it another couple of years to see if Wael can deliver but what if he can’t ? If it was your own business or family we were talking about would you be so relaxed ? Would you sit back and wait to see what happened or would you take action to try to prevent an unpleasant situation developing or at least minimize the damage if it did ?
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Post by droitwichgas on Jun 6, 2021 21:14:40 GMT
Swiss your just regurgitating the old debt write off argument, which I have already said I don't buy, like a number of others. Also Rovers have been losing money since the 50s and needed a stadium of our own since we sold Eastville to the Greyhound company, so another couple of years wait will not make a lot of difference. Now if you know of people who can invest and solve the problem instantly great, but I assume not, so waiting a little while to see if Wael can deliver seems to be our only option. For me that is not a bad option. If you don’t accept that BRFC 1883 Ltd is in debt to Dwane Sports to the tune of about 12 million then can you explain where the cash to cover two years trading losses and pay for the work at the training ground has come from. And I can’t understand why you think losing 3+ million pa under Wael’s ownership is better than losing 1 million pa under Nick Higgs ownership. Wael may be a more likable character than Nick but what else has he done to make you think that way ? When you ask whether I know people who can invest to solve the problems instantly I don’t understand what you mean. Investment is not the problem because over the past five years Rovers have had cash thrown at us like never before but it has all been wasted due to mismanagement. You say to give it another couple of years to see if Wael can deliver but what if he can’t ? If it was your own business or family we were talking about would you be so relaxed ? Would you sit back and wait to see what happened or would you take action to try to prevent an unpleasant situation developing or at least minimize the damage if it did ? FFS give it a rest, you've been bnging on about taking acton for years but no Gashead is going to take action and you certainly aren't going to being an OAP based in, I believe, the USA, one who can't even be bothered to watch the games via iFollow.
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Post by swissgas on Jun 6, 2021 21:45:26 GMT
If you don’t accept that BRFC 1883 Ltd is in debt to Dwane Sports to the tune of about 12 million then can you explain where the cash to cover two years trading losses and pay for the work at the training ground has come from. And I can’t understand why you think losing 3+ million pa under Wael’s ownership is better than losing 1 million pa under Nick Higgs ownership. Wael may be a more likable character than Nick but what else has he done to make you think that way ? When you ask whether I know people who can invest to solve the problems instantly I don’t understand what you mean. Investment is not the problem because over the past five years Rovers have had cash thrown at us like never before but it has all been wasted due to mismanagement. You say to give it another couple of years to see if Wael can deliver but what if he can’t ? If it was your own business or family we were talking about would you be so relaxed ? Would you sit back and wait to see what happened or would you take action to try to prevent an unpleasant situation developing or at least minimize the damage if it did ? FFS give it a rest, you've been bnging on about taking acton for years but no Gashead is going to take action and you certainly aren't going to being an OAP based in, I believe, the USA, one who can't even be bothered to watch the games via iFollow. Holmesgas1 said he thought Rovers were better off now than we were when Nick Higgs owned the club but I disagreed and explained why. Gasheads take action every day by posting their thoughts on social media. Which can be entertaining and enlightening when kept civil
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Post by droitwichgas on Jun 6, 2021 22:01:15 GMT
FFS give it a rest, you've been bnging on about taking acton for years but no Gashead is going to take action and you certainly aren't going to being an OAP based in, I believe, the USA, one who can't even be bothered to watch the games via iFollow. Holmesgas1 said he thought Rovers were better off now than we were when Nick Higgs owned the club but I disagreed and explained why. Gasheads take action every day by posting their thoughts on social media. Which can be entertaining and enlightening when kept civil Or just plain boring for a lot of posters when it's continually regurgitatedly by the same poster.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2021 22:15:46 GMT
Holmesgas1 said he thought Rovers were better off now than we were when Nick Higgs owned the club but I disagreed and explained why. Gasheads take action every day by posting their thoughts on social media. Which can be entertaining and enlightening when kept civil Or just plain boring for a lot of posters when it's continually regurgitatedly by the same poster. Droitwich, just click on the members name, click on settings and then block member and you won't have to let it bother you again.
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Post by a more piratey game on Jun 6, 2021 22:25:35 GMT
Holmesgas1 said he thought Rovers were better off now than we were when Nick Higgs owned the club but I disagreed and explained why. Gasheads take action every day by posting their thoughts on social media. Which can be entertaining and enlightening when kept civil Or just plain boring for a lot of posters when it's continually regurgitatedly by the same poster. That alpine chap is many things, but very seldom boring imo
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Post by chelt_gas on Jun 7, 2021 7:38:31 GMT
Or just plain boring for a lot of posters when it's continually regurgitatedly by the same poster. That alpine chap is many things, but very seldom boring imo Yes, that's how the Swiss Roll.
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Post by a more piratey game on Jun 7, 2021 13:48:56 GMT
No I'm not changing the subject. Your prejudice is there every time you post about JB, but you are too blind to see it. If you don't like it being pointed out that is a different issue. With respect to the 2nd part I will come back as part of an answer to Swiss, who has kindly gone into some detail.
There is a clearly a lot of prejudice towards JB, that is clear to everyone to see.
Here is the link to his address to Cambridge Union 2 or 3 years ago. its very long, but very interesting. I tracked it down last night after Eppings mentioned it in the other thread.
Eppings says on the other thread that JB is boasting about attacking players and shows no remorse or regret, I dont see any evidence of that at all, I see anything but, and I see someone acknowledging the errors of their past and trying to become a better person - and sometimes failing.
(Maybe JB did another address another time, if so i would be interested to see it. Or maybe people just hear what they want to hear, even when its not there )
I wonder if people will watch, or just say 'I dont need to...' as their mind is already made up.
for anyone who can't be bothered to listen to this, think 'Educating Rita without the funny bits' Joey, wouldn't you just die without Mahler?
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,353
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jun 7, 2021 18:46:01 GMT
In replying frankly I leave myself open, as usual, to accusations of being “anti Wael” but in your appraisal of the situation regarding the UWE let down what is the reason you “take Wael at his word” and regarding financing a new stadium why do you think Wael has a “better chance” than Nick Higgs ? After five years I should say there are plenty of reasons for being cautious about taking Wael at his word or believing that he has preferential access to finance for a new stadium. The debt situation is quite straightforward. On July 8th 2020 the club announced that 18.4 million of debt in BRFC 1883 Ltd had been capitalised but it hadn’t been. It was capitalised on September 28th 2020 and registered at Companies House on December 8th 2020. However the accounts to 30th June 2019 showed debt of about 20 million so not all the debt was capitalised in 2020. And in the two years since June 2019 the club has run up further debt with Dwane Sports which I estimate will amount to about 12 million. Wael has said he will continue to capitalise debt so perhaps he will tidy up this 12 million later in the year ? You say that prior to COVID the club seemed to be making inroads on the debt. I think this is a reference to Martyn Starnes claim in March last year that he had expected to cut the previous years losses (3.4 million) by half which, even if he did, would still mean the debt was increasing. Nobody challenged him on this but I should be very interested to know how he had taken 140k per month costs out of the business or increased gross profit by a similar amount. The proof of his claim will be in the 2020 accounts which will be 75% pre COVID figures so we shall be able to discern if he really had done it. In your reply you say “let’s see what happens over the next two years” and then “ the proof will be what happens over the next couple of years”. I am sorry to be blunt but that is kicking the can down the road. Sooner or later Rovers will have to confront the issue because if we keep putting it off and pretending all is well it will explode in our face. To console ourselves by thinking that Wael has amassed sufficient personal savings to allow him to fund Rovers losses indefinitely is the equivalent of kicking the can over the Tote End and half way along Stapleton Road. Swiss your just regurgitating the old debt write off argument, which I have already said I don't buy, like a number of others. Also Rovers have been losing money since the 50s and needed a stadium of our own since we sold Eastville to the Greyhound company, so another couple of years wait will not make a lot of difference. Now if you know of people who can invest and solve the problem instantly great, but I assume not, so waiting a little while to see if Wael can deliver seems to be our only option. For me that is not a bad option. Wael will not accept outside investment. He has been very clear on this & it’s why the original FM negotiations fell through
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Post by droitwichgas on Jun 7, 2021 19:07:45 GMT
Or just plain boring for a lot of posters when it's continually regurgitatedly by the same poster. Droitwich, just click on the members name, click on settings and then block member and you won't have to let it bother you again. Or perhaps the OP could just post on the relevant thread about the club's finances?
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Post by droitwichgas on Jun 7, 2021 19:09:21 GMT
Swiss your just regurgitating the old debt write off argument, which I have already said I don't buy, like a number of others. Also Rovers have been losing money since the 50s and needed a stadium of our own since we sold Eastville to the Greyhound company, so another couple of years wait will not make a lot of difference. Now if you know of people who can invest and solve the problem instantly great, but I assume not, so waiting a little while to see if Wael can deliver seems to be our only option. For me that is not a bad option. Wael will not accept outside investment. He has been very clear on this & it’s why the original FM negotiations fell through Any chance you could post a link to where it was confirmed FM negotiates ever started let alone ended, as it all just seems hearsay from what I've read?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2021 20:01:25 GMT
Wael will not accept outside investment. He has been very clear on this & it’s why the original FM negotiations fell through Any chance you could post a link to where it was confirmed FM negotiates ever started let alone ended, as it all just seems hearsay from what I've read? I thought Wael himself revealed the Fruit Market Project prior the the away game at Blackpool last season?
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Angas
Joined: May 2014
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Post by Angas on Jun 7, 2021 20:13:00 GMT
"One of the sites is the fruit market - we are very interested in that site," Mr Al-Qadi. Bristol Fruit Market is about four miles south of the Memorial Stadium, close to the city's main Temple Meads railway station. "We have already started the work that goes in to planning permission," Mr Al-Qadi told sports presenter Geoff Twentyman. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-49221023
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,511
Member is Online
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Post by eppinggas on Jun 7, 2021 22:04:22 GMT
"One of the sites is the fruit market - we are very interested in that site," Mr Al-Qadi. Bristol Fruit Market is about four miles south of the Memorial Stadium, close to the city's main Temple Meads railway station. "We have already started the work that goes in to planning permission," Mr Al-Qadi told sports presenter Geoff Twentyman. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-49221023"Yeah. You can prove anything with facts". That quote is courtesy of Stewart Lee.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,353
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jun 7, 2021 23:19:57 GMT
Wael will not accept outside investment. He has been very clear on this & it’s why the original FM negotiations fell through Any chance you could post a link to where it was confirmed FM negotiates ever started let alone ended, as it all just seems hearsay from what I've read? There is a strict NDA in place. I cannot disclose what I know, not on a public forum and, no, I cannot provide any link as there has been nothing written about it that goes into any detail. I believe Sam Frost got frustrated about this and came close to being told he wouldn’t be welcome. I would however talk of it, with people I have learned to trust. No PM’s or anything written mate
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Post by a more piratey game on Jun 7, 2021 23:47:27 GMT
Any chance you could post a link to where it was confirmed FM negotiates ever started let alone ended, as it all just seems hearsay from what I've read? There is a strict NDA in place. I cannot disclose what I know, not on a public forum and, no, I cannot provide any link as there has been nothing written about it that goes into any detail. I believe Sam Frost got frustrated about this and came close to being told he wouldn’t be welcome. I would however talk of it, with people I have learned to trust. No PM’s or anything written mate Frostie always writes in a confident tone about the Frooty things - which, uncharacteristically, implies to me that he knows more than he can write There were many on here suggesting that the project is dead tho
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Post by holmesgas1 on Jun 8, 2021 9:09:04 GMT
Swiss your just regurgitating the old debt write off argument, which I have already said I don't buy, like a number of others. Also Rovers have been losing money since the 50s and needed a stadium of our own since we sold Eastville to the Greyhound company, so another couple of years wait will not make a lot of difference. Now if you know of people who can invest and solve the problem instantly great, but I assume not, so waiting a little while to see if Wael can deliver seems to be our only option. For me that is not a bad option. If you don’t accept that BRFC 1883 Ltd is in debt to Dwane Sports to the tune of about 12 million then can you explain where the cash to cover two years trading losses and pay for the work at the training ground has come from. And I can’t understand why you think losing 3+ million pa under Wael’s ownership is better than losing 1 million pa under Nick Higgs ownership. Wael may be a more likable character than Nick but what else has he done to make you think that way ? When you ask whether I know people who can invest to solve the problems instantly I don’t understand what you mean. Investment is not the problem because over the past five years Rovers have had cash thrown at us like never before but it has all been wasted due to mismanagement. You say to give it another couple of years to see if Wael can deliver but what if he can’t ? If it was your own business or family we were talking about would you be so relaxed ? Would you sit back and wait to see what happened or would you take action to try to prevent an unpleasant situation developing or at least minimize the damage if it did ? Swiss it is very simple. In Higgs tenure we were going bankrupt. Wonga loans etc, and no money for Investment other than what others found as "desperation" deals. Like I say give evidence this was not the case with the UWE and I will be as fed up as you. However, I thank him for the job he did as he was willing to put his money on the line, but unfortunately football is a very rich man's game. Wael definitely has more financial capacity than Higgs and in the last year more flexibility to use it. At least you accept he capitalised the majority of the debt, and are debating what's happened since. For months you kept writing scare stories on the original write off so credibility is dented. With respect to investment now, simple question, so why play dumb. Unless there are alternatives Wael is the only bet in town and says he has the capacity to raise the money for a stadium project. Can you prove otherwise?
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