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Post by holmesgas1 on Jun 8, 2021 9:17:39 GMT
Swiss your just regurgitating the old debt write off argument, which I have already said I don't buy, like a number of others. Also Rovers have been losing money since the 50s and needed a stadium of our own since we sold Eastville to the Greyhound company, so another couple of years wait will not make a lot of difference. Now if you know of people who can invest and solve the problem instantly great, but I assume not, so waiting a little while to see if Wael can deliver seems to be our only option. For me that is not a bad option. Wael will not accept outside investment. He has been very clear on this & it’s why the original FM negotiations fell through KP, where is their evidence that he will not accept credible investment? Yes he has said he wants to keep control, so I can see that may be a stumbling block...
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Post by swissgas on Jun 8, 2021 14:16:40 GMT
If you don’t accept that BRFC 1883 Ltd is in debt to Dwane Sports to the tune of about 12 million then can you explain where the cash to cover two years trading losses and pay for the work at the training ground has come from. And I can’t understand why you think losing 3+ million pa under Wael’s ownership is better than losing 1 million pa under Nick Higgs ownership. Wael may be a more likable character than Nick but what else has he done to make you think that way ? When you ask whether I know people who can invest to solve the problems instantly I don’t understand what you mean. Investment is not the problem because over the past five years Rovers have had cash thrown at us like never before but it has all been wasted due to mismanagement. You say to give it another couple of years to see if Wael can deliver but what if he can’t ? If it was your own business or family we were talking about would you be so relaxed ? Would you sit back and wait to see what happened or would you take action to try to prevent an unpleasant situation developing or at least minimize the damage if it did ? Swiss it is very simple. In Higgs tenure we were going bankrupt. Wonga loans etc, and no money for Investment other than what others found as "desperation" deals. Like I say give evidence this was not the case with the UWE and I will be as fed up as you. However, I thank him for the job he did as he was willing to put his money on the line, but unfortunately football is a very rich man's game. Wael definitely has more financial capacity than Higgs and in the last year more flexibility to use it. At least you accept he capitalised the majority of the debt, and are debating what's happened since. For months you kept writing scare stories on the original write off so credibility is dented. With respect to investment now, simple question, so why play dumb. Unless there are alternatives Wael is the only bet in town and says he has the capacity to raise the money for a stadium project. Can you prove otherwise? I can understand that to keep going back and forth like this can be boring to some fans but for me, in regard to Rovers, the biggest question ever is "why do we never fulfill our potential" and in my eyes trying to solve that one can never be boring. You say "Wael definitely has more financial capacity than Nick Higgs" but what is that based on ? The reason I've tried to highlight the AJIB and METICO finances is not to do down the family but to try to explain that their businesses are not as big as many were led to believe and now that Wael is on his own he will only have access to a proportion of their wealth. In 2016 some fans mistakenly thought the Al-Qadi's owned the HSBC International Bank and the entire Four Seasons hotel group which is an impression I fear many still have ! I think there is a fair chance that Nick, Chris, Ed and Barry combined were wealthier than Wael as an individual but they, wisely, decided there was a limit to what they would spend on Rovers. Wael and his family have put much more money into Rovers than anyone else before them but look at the results. Surely we can agree that money has not been the problem it is the way it has been spent and managed ? You say my credibility is dented because I wrote scare stories about the write off. What I wrote was 100% correct and, as I explained at the time, the reason I did so was to make the point that saying you have done something when you haven't is a disastrous policy to follow. How can you believe anyone when they do that ? Gasheads who think they are being loyal by denying any Rovers wrongdoing can make every excuse under the sun but the fact remains that on July 8th last year the club made a false announcement and, IMO, had to be harried into rectifying that mistake. I'm not playing dumb about investment I'm saying more money/ investment won't solve the problem. Alternatives to Wael have arisen but he will not relinquish control and therefore those alternatives cannot be pursued. As the Mayor of Bristol said 18 months ago "it depends on the configuration of Bristol Rovers" and for anyone to invest in a new stadium that configuration would have to be such that they had control. No outside investor would put up a substantial sum of money and leave Wael in control because one look at the accounts tells them their money would soon be lost. The majority of Gasheads like Wael and I have a feeling many would prefer for him to keep control even if that means we cannot fulfill our potential.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,353
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jun 8, 2021 14:35:44 GMT
Swiss it is very simple. In Higgs tenure we were going bankrupt. Wonga loans etc, and no money for Investment other than what others found as "desperation" deals. Like I say give evidence this was not the case with the UWE and I will be as fed up as you. However, I thank him for the job he did as he was willing to put his money on the line, but unfortunately football is a very rich man's game. Wael definitely has more financial capacity than Higgs and in the last year more flexibility to use it. At least you accept he capitalised the majority of the debt, and are debating what's happened since. For months you kept writing scare stories on the original write off so credibility is dented. With respect to investment now, simple question, so why play dumb. Unless there are alternatives Wael is the only bet in town and says he has the capacity to raise the money for a stadium project. Can you prove otherwise? I can understand that to keep going back and forth like this can be boring to some fans but for me, in regard to Rovers, the biggest question ever is "why do we never fulfill our potential" and in my eyes trying to solve that one can never be boring. You say "Wael definitely has more financial capacity than Nick Higgs" but what is that based on ? The reason I've tried to highlight the AJIB and METICO finances is not to do down the family but to try to explain that their businesses are not as big as many were led to believe and now that Wael is on his own he will only have access to a proportion of their wealth. In 2016 some fans mistakenly thought the Al-Qadi's owned the HSBC International Bank and the entire Four Seasons hotel group which is an impression I fear many still have ! I think there is a fair chance that Nick, Chris, Ed and Barry combined were wealthier than Wael as an individual but they, wisely, decided there was a limit to what they would spend on Rovers. Wael and his family have put much more money into Rovers than anyone else before them but look at the results. Surely we can agree that money has not been the problem it is the way it has been spent and managed ? You say my credibility is dented because I wrote scare stories about the write off. What I wrote was 100% correct and, as I explained at the time, the reason I did so was to make the point that saying you have done something when you haven't is a disastrous policy to follow. How can you believe anyone when they do that ? Gasheads who think they are being loyal by denying any Rovers wrongdoing can make every excuse under the sun but the fact remains that on July 8th last year the club made a false announcement and, IMO, had to be harried into rectifying that mistake. I'm not playing dumb about investment I'm saying more money/ investment won't solve the problem. Alternatives to Wael have arisen but he will not relinquish control and therefore those alternatives cannot be pursued. As the Mayor of Bristol said 18 months ago "it depends on the configuration of Bristol Rovers" and for anyone to invest in a new stadium that configuration would have to be such that they had control. No outside investor would put up a substantial sum of money and leave Wael in control because one look at the accounts tells them their money would soon be lost. The majority of Gasheads like Wael and I have a feeling many would prefer for him to keep control even if that means we cannot fulfill our potential. This certainly seems to be the case. Most prefer a Tim , nice but dim type of owner. He’s a nice bloke don’t you know
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jun 9, 2021 12:20:09 GMT
There is a strict NDA in place. I cannot disclose what I know, not on a public forum and, no, I cannot provide any link as there has been nothing written about it that goes into any detail. I believe Sam Frost got frustrated about this and came close to being told he wouldn’t be welcome. I would however talk of it, with people I have learned to trust. No PM’s or anything written mate Frostie always writes in a confident tone about the Frooty things - which, uncharacteristically, implies to me that he knows more than he can write There were many on here suggesting that the project is dead tho It’s been dead for around 4-6 months and I have said so before. There are others who know more, seems it will be more houses
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2021 22:04:01 GMT
Well, The Sun and The Bristol Post both report Barton as bailed and charged with assaulting his wife, for which he is due in court, so while there are no Rovers matches being played about which I might demonstrate unacceptable opinions, I will resume participation on Gas Guzzler, without the permission of Trymer, Faustus, and their fans.
Who would like to be the first to cite innocent until proven guitly, or Rovers rehabilitation?
Never mind, as all publicity is good publicity, I'm told. And just think how many Twitter followers we might get now!
Whoopee-do.
Joey Barton is unfit to manage Bristol Rovers.
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Post by gasgomarchingin on Jul 24, 2021 22:05:22 GMT
Well, The Sun and The Bristol Post both report Barton as bailed and charged with assaulting his wife, for which he is due in court, so while there are no Rovers matches being played about which I might demonstrate unacceptable opinions, I will resume participation on Gas Guzzler, without the permission of Trymer, Faustus, and their fans. Who would like to be the first to cite innocent until proven guitly, or Rovers rehabilitation? Never mind, as all publicity is good publicity, I'm told. And just think how many Twitter followers we might get now! Whoopee-do. Joey Barton is unfit to manage Bristol Rovers. Hello shoveler my gaschat friend.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2021 22:33:12 GMT
Bristol Rovers manager Joey Barton due in court on Monday after woman suffers head injuryBristol Rovers manager Joey Barton has been charged with assault by beatingBristol Rovers manager Joey Barton is due in court on Monday after being charged with assault. The 38-year-old will appear at Wimbledon Magistrates’ Court to face a single charge of assault by beating. The alleged incident took place in London on June 2, when a woman suffered a head injury. Barton was arrested the same day before being bailed and charged. “Joseph Barton, 38 and of Widnes, is due to appear on bail on Monday, July 26 at Wimbledon Magistrates’ Court charged with assault by beating," a Met Police spokesman said. "The charge relates to an incident which took place at a residential property in Kew on June 2 in which a woman received a head injury. “The London Ambulance Service did not attend. “A 38-year-old man was arrested on June 2, bailed pending further enquiries, and subsequently charged.” Bristol Rovers have been approached for comment. www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-rovers-joey-barton-court-5696359
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Post by scotsgas on Jul 25, 2021 3:06:55 GMT
My guess is that tomorrow’s case will be sent to Crown Court as was his other assault case. With the backlog of cases that will take at least a year to be heard. The other pending case looks pretty flimsy to say the least. I think (just my personal opinion) that he will still be in charge against Mansfield and for some while after. The club will not make any statement.
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Post by chelt_gas on Jul 25, 2021 3:14:00 GMT
Barton is innocent until proven guilty. We should respect that principle and support Rovers if or until any material change in Barton's circumstance. However, it adds to the case against Wael that his judgement has been fairly average when making big decisions as bad news has followed this guy throughout the whole of his career.
Family Club my arse
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2021 6:12:40 GMT
Barton is innocent until proven guilty. Barton is far from innocent, as is well documented. Barton has been proven guilty and been imprisoned, as he continues to dine out on. Innocent until proven guilty is for the justice system, and need not control my opinions. My opinion, outside of the justice system, is that I bet the Police and Crown Prosecution are probably correct. I think you and the Scot are right though. This will take ages, and will tarnish further the reputation of our football club for a long time.
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Post by tanksfull on Jul 25, 2021 10:46:19 GMT
Well, The Sun and The Bristol Post both report Barton as bailed and charged with assaulting his wife, for which he is due in court, so while there are no Rovers matches being played about which I might demonstrate unacceptable opinions, I will resume participation on Gas Guzzler, without the permission of Trymer, Faustus, and their fans. Who would like to be the first to cite innocent until proven guitly, or Rovers rehabilitation? Never mind, as all publicity is good publicity, I'm told. And just think how many Twitter followers we might get now! Whoopee-do. Joey Barton is unfit to manage Bristol Rovers. I'd like to cite "I told you so" is that one OK?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2021 10:55:06 GMT
I'd like to cite "I told you so" is that one OK? Haha, I know it's tempting. But I'm calling instead for praising Gasheads who change their mind in light of these new (and I feel more serious) charges.
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Post by baselswh on Jul 25, 2021 10:57:32 GMT
In the scenario Mrs Barton 'stands by her man',then maybe that's enough to close the case.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jul 25, 2021 11:03:02 GMT
In the scenario Mrs Barton 'stands by her man',then maybe that's enough to close the case. Not at all. Police gather evidence then CPS make a decision. Many domestics have ended by fear and intimidation of the victim. We will have to wait and see what the chain of events were
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2021 11:04:15 GMT
In the scenario Mrs Barton 'stands by her man',then maybe that's enough to close the case. Not for me. The evidence threshold for Police and the CPS to bring charges in DA cases is notoriously high, and social services referral is required to safeguard the children... these charges can't be buried.
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Post by tanksfull on Jul 25, 2021 11:04:50 GMT
I'd like to cite "I told you so" is that one OK? Haha, I know it's tempting. But I'm calling instead for praising Gasheads who change their mind in light of these new (and I feel more serious) charges. Whilst agreeing with your sentiment, praising and being happy for the converted...
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lostinspace
Vic Lambden
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Post by lostinspace on Jul 25, 2021 11:09:11 GMT
In the scenario Mrs Barton 'stands by her man',then maybe that's enough to close the case. So ......its ok when a bloke does this and she then stands by her man... The press thought otherwise when the presenter Caroline Flack so called assaulted her bloke, the CPO decided to press for prosecution, the press hounded her till the ends of the earth...and look what happened her..bless ..... Too many crossed lines in authority in this world, still a male dominance to the denigration of females
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Post by baselswh on Jul 25, 2021 11:22:01 GMT
In the scenario Mrs Barton 'stands by her man',then maybe that's enough to close the case. So ......its ok when a bloke does this and she then stands by her man... The press thought otherwise when the presenter Caroline Flack so called assaulted her bloke, the CPO decided to press for prosecution, the press hounded her till the ends of the earth...and look what happened her..bless ..... Too many crossed lines in authority in this world, still a male dominance to the denigration of females Yep it's an unfair mad mad world LIS.
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towngas
Joined: February 2021
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Post by towngas on Jul 25, 2021 11:43:59 GMT
In the scenario Mrs Barton 'stands by her man',then maybe that's enough to close the case. Not for me. The evidence threshold for Police and the CPS to bring charges in DA cases is notoriously high, and social services referral is required to safeguard the children... these charges can't be buried. I have to take issue with you there Shoveller. The Police and the CPS will do their utmost to progress a Domestic Viloence case on the flimsiest evidence. What gets measured gets done. At the moment the spotlight is on DV, for better or worse. The collective authorities will be licking their lips over this one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2021 11:49:48 GMT
The Police and the CPS will do their utmost to progress a Domestic Violence case on the flimsiest evidence. Under 5% of the hundreds such cases I have encountered professionally were taken to court. So, no.
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