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Post by holmesgas1 on Jun 4, 2021 21:12:11 GMT
Nope, think it's pretty accurate, but thanks for asking. OK, who has shown any prejudice towards the bloke? Now that we've agreed the definition obviously there's no point mentioning anybody who is appalled by his violence or is disgusted by his continued association with characters such as his friend who has been convicted for murdering a Police officer. To be honest it is not worth taking the debate. Your mind is made up and your not willing to listen to what he's trying to do to improve as he knows he's made mistakes. Many people have come out of similar situations and been successful, but in your world easier to write them off.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2021 22:07:04 GMT
OK, who has shown any prejudice towards the bloke? Now that we've agreed the definition obviously there's no point mentioning anybody who is appalled by his violence or is disgusted by his continued association with characters such as his friend who has been convicted for murdering a Police officer. To be honest it is not worth taking the debate. Your mind is made up and your not willing to listen to what he's trying to do to improve as he knows he's made mistakes. Many people have come out of similar situations and been successful, but in your world easier to write them off. That's not the question, the point is you've stated that people have demonstrated prejudice towards him, we've agreed on the definition of the word, now all I'm doing is asking you to show me where, on this forum, any prejudice towards the bloke is please.
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Post by baselswh on Jun 5, 2021 6:54:15 GMT
To be honest it is not worth taking the debate. Your mind is made up and your not willing to listen to what he's trying to do to improve as he knows he's made mistakes. Many people have come out of similar situations and been successful, but in your world easier to write them off. That's not the question, the point is you've stated that people have demonstrated prejudice towards him, we've agreed on the definition of the word, now all I'm doing is asking you to show me where, on this forum, any prejudice towards the bloke is please. Petty semantic arguement. The 'attack' on Joey Barton,before he's had a chance to manage 'his' squad is unprecedented in in my time supporting Rovers. It's clear there are some that actually hope Rovers Manager gets sent to prison for a significant time,or banned from football for a significant time, so WAQ may sack him. I think they see themselves as Pillars of Gashead community,but i'm afraid their rhetoric is destructive and a little devicive. This thread is a very poor show.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,511
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Post by eppinggas on Jun 5, 2021 8:11:25 GMT
That's not the question, the point is you've stated that people have demonstrated prejudice towards him, we've agreed on the definition of the word, now all I'm doing is asking you to show me where, on this forum, any prejudice towards the bloke is please. Petty semantic arguement. The 'attack' on Joey Barton,before he's had a chance to manage 'his' squad is unprecedented in in my time supporting Rovers. It's clear there are some that actually hope Rovers Manager gets sent to prison for a significant time,or banned from football for a significant time, so WAQ may sack him. I think they see themselves as Pillars of Gashead community,but i'm afraid their rhetoric is destructive and a little devicive. This thread is a very poor show. 64 pages and 1262 posts. The most emotive subject I have come across in following and discussing Bristol Rovers. Passionate debate about the manager, Club, the owners and questioning how decisions are made. It reflects just how much people obviously care. Very rarely has the subject matter discussed degenerated into name calling and bad language. This thread is very good show.
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Post by laughinggas on Jun 5, 2021 8:19:59 GMT
No of pages and posts arenot necessarily a measure, surely it's the number of posters involved as we'll that would make it emotive.
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Post by a more piratey game on Jun 5, 2021 8:51:38 GMT
That's not the question, the point is you've stated that people have demonstrated prejudice towards him, we've agreed on the definition of the word, now all I'm doing is asking you to show me where, on this forum, any prejudice towards the bloke is please. Petty semantic arguement. The 'attack' on Joey Barton,before he's had a chance to manage 'his' squad is unprecedented in in my time supporting Rovers. It's clear there are some that actually hope Rovers Manager gets sent to prison for a significant time,or banned from football for a significant time, so WAQ may sack him. I think they see themselves as Pillars of Gashead community,but i'm afraid their rhetoric is destructive and a little devicive. This thread is a very poor show. one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2021 9:09:25 GMT
That's not the question, the point is you've stated that people have demonstrated prejudice towards him, we've agreed on the definition of the word, now all I'm doing is asking you to show me where, on this forum, any prejudice towards the bloke is please. Petty semantic arguement. The 'attack' on Joey Barton,before he's had a chance to manage 'his' squad is unprecedented in in my time supporting Rovers. It's clear there are some that actually hope Rovers Manager gets sent to prison for a significant time,or banned from football for a significant time, so WAQ may sack him. I think they see themselves as Pillars of Gashead community,but i'm afraid their rhetoric is destructive and a little devicive. This thread is a very poor show. So commenting on the club being associated with a convicted thug whilst he has a charge for the exact same thing and a court case scheduled, in your mind, means that the division and damaging behaviour originates on my side of the divide. That's such a puerile argument that nobody who had given it more than 5 seconds of consideration would have presented that I'm afraid I'm going to have to explain, in very simple terms, why it's baseless. If the lout wasn't here there would be no division. It's not just a handful of Rovers' supporters pretending to be virtuous Bas, find the story on the BBC site the day relegation was confirmed and see what supporters of clubs around the country said in the comments section.
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basel
Joined: May 2014
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Post by basel on Jun 5, 2021 10:36:58 GMT
Petty semantic arguement. The 'attack' on Joey Barton,before he's had a chance to manage 'his' squad is unprecedented in in my time supporting Rovers. It's clear there are some that actually hope Rovers Manager gets sent to prison for a significant time,or banned from football for a significant time, so WAQ may sack him. I think they see themselves as Pillars of Gashead community,but i'm afraid their rhetoric is destructive and a little devicive. This thread is a very poor show. So commenting on the club being associated with a convicted thug whilst he has a charge for the exact same thing and a court case scheduled, in your mind, means that the division and damaging behaviour originates on my side of the divide. That's such a puerile argument that nobody who had given it more than 5 seconds of consideration would have presented that I'm afraid I'm going to have to explain, in very simple terms, why it's baseless. If the lout wasn't here there would be no division. It's not just a handful of Rovers' supporters pretending to be virtuous Bas, find the story on the BBC site the day relegation was confirmed and see what supporters of clubs around the country said in the comments section. The spoilt brat theory ay. Comeback when you've bought Bristol Rovers FC. The BBC and its disciples. Ha!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2021 12:00:20 GMT
So commenting on the club being associated with a convicted thug whilst he has a charge for the exact same thing and a court case scheduled, in your mind, means that the division and damaging behaviour originates on my side of the divide. That's such a puerile argument that nobody who had given it more than 5 seconds of consideration would have presented that I'm afraid I'm going to have to explain, in very simple terms, why it's baseless. If the lout wasn't here there would be no division. It's not just a handful of Rovers' supporters pretending to be virtuous Bas, find the story on the BBC site the day relegation was confirmed and see what supporters of clubs around the country said in the comments section. The spoilt brat theory ay. Comeback when you've bought Bristol Rovers FC. The BBC and its disciples. Ha! I have no idea what you are talking about. If I have to buy Rovers to have an opinion then so do you, so we are both a bit snookered according to the rules you've just set up. As for the BBC comment, nobody was commenting on anything to do with the BBC itself, what happened was that the BBC ran a piece with a headline along the lines of 'Barton's Bristol Rovers relegated', and they had a comments section at the bottom of the article. There were a lot of comments relating to Barton and his wrongdoing, so by association the name of our club is harmed in my opinion. But still not a hint of any prejudice towards the bloke on this site as far as I'm aware, just reasonable comment from people who don't want him associated with the club, and don't want to be, by extension, associated with him.
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Post by holmesgas1 on Jun 5, 2021 13:00:39 GMT
Petty semantic arguement. The 'attack' on Joey Barton,before he's had a chance to manage 'his' squad is unprecedented in in my time supporting Rovers. It's clear there are some that actually hope Rovers Manager gets sent to prison for a significant time,or banned from football for a significant time, so WAQ may sack him. I think they see themselves as Pillars of Gashead community,but i'm afraid their rhetoric is destructive and a little devicive. This thread is a very poor show. So commenting on the club being associated with a convicted thug whilst he has a charge for the exact same thing and a court case scheduled, in your mind, means that the division and damaging behaviour originates on my side of the divide. That's such a puerile argument that nobody who had given it more than 5 seconds of consideration would have presented that I'm afraid I'm going to have to explain, in very simple terms, why it's baseless. If the lout wasn't here there would be no division. It's not just a handful of Rovers' supporters pretending to be virtuous Bas, find the story on the BBC site the day relegation was confirmed and see what supporters of clubs around the country said in the comments section. And you have just confirmed what I said earlier. Prejudice. Thank you for defining your own example. Also you were complaining about everything before JB came in, so please don't mention unity has been lost due to him. The only way unity will start is if you start to support Bristol Rovers instead of continually looking for ways to criticise.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2021 13:12:28 GMT
So commenting on the club being associated with a convicted thug whilst he has a charge for the exact same thing and a court case scheduled, in your mind, means that the division and damaging behaviour originates on my side of the divide. That's such a puerile argument that nobody who had given it more than 5 seconds of consideration would have presented that I'm afraid I'm going to have to explain, in very simple terms, why it's baseless. If the lout wasn't here there would be no division. It's not just a handful of Rovers' supporters pretending to be virtuous Bas, find the story on the BBC site the day relegation was confirmed and see what supporters of clubs around the country said in the comments section. And you have just confirmed what I said earlier. Prejudice. Thank you for defining your own example. Also you were complaining about everything before JB came in, so please don't mention unity has been lost due to him. The only way unity will start is if you start to support Bristol Rovers instead of continually looking for ways to criticise. For the 4th time, show me where the prejudice is. Obviously you can't so I'm sorry to have to say you are lumped in with the group who aren't capable of accepting a correction. Too darn right I'm complaining about how the club is run, I did warn the happy clappers where it would lead, now here we are, losses that couldn't have been imagined and we are a 4th division team again, and the stadium has more tents than ever.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2021 14:14:37 GMT
Petty semantic arguement. The 'attack' on Joey Barton,before he's had a chance to manage 'his' squad is unprecedented in in my time supporting Rovers. It's clear there are some that actually hope Rovers Manager gets sent to prison for a significant time,or banned from football for a significant time, so WAQ may sack him. I think they see themselves as Pillars of Gashead community,but i'm afraid their rhetoric is destructive and a little devicive. This thread is a very poor show. So commenting on the club being associated with a convicted thug whilst he has a charge for the exact same thing and a court case scheduled, in your mind, means that the division and damaging behaviour originates on my side of the divide. That's such a puerile argument that nobody who had given it more than 5 seconds of consideration would have presented that I'm afraid I'm going to have to explain, in very simple terms, why it's baseless. If the lout wasn't here there would be no division.It's not just a handful of Rovers' supporters pretending to be virtuous Bas, find the story on the BBC site the day relegation was confirmed and see what supporters of clubs around the country said in the comments section.
Sure you would find something/someone else
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Post by swissgas on Jun 5, 2021 14:36:21 GMT
The question is surely whether Barton means it when he says he is remorseful.
The Oxford Union debate was in 2014 and the autobiography was written prior to 2016 but since then he has been kicked out of Rangers for abusing his manager and fellow players, banned by the FA for illegal betting and is now charged with assaulting another manager.
Isn’t it a case of actions speaking louder than words ?
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Post by holmesgas1 on Jun 5, 2021 14:49:04 GMT
And you have just confirmed what I said earlier. Prejudice. Thank you for defining your own example. Also you were complaining about everything before JB came in, so please don't mention unity has been lost due to him. The only way unity will start is if you start to support Bristol Rovers instead of continually looking for ways to criticise. For the 4th time, show me where the prejudice is. Obviously you can't so I'm sorry to have to say you are lumped in with the group who aren't capable of accepting a correction. Too darn right I'm complaining about how the club is run, I did warn the happy clappers where it would lead, now here we are, losses that couldn't have been imagined and we are a 4th division team again, and the stadium has more tents than ever. It looks as if your grouping me in good company. People who are willing to give people a chance, willing to support the club through thick and thin, until there is clear evidence we are going in the wrong direction. Relegation is not evidence, its sport and why we love it. I am still trying to work out what you want. It's probably something very similar to me. 1) a club 2) success 3) a stadium we can be proud of 4) seen as part of the community 5) financial stabilisation and sustainability 1 and 4 we have, 2,3 and 5 still seems closer than what we had under Higgs. So tell me, what do you want? Progress is slow, but is still better than what we were looking at 6 years ago.
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Post by swissgas on Jun 5, 2021 15:29:42 GMT
For the 4th time, show me where the prejudice is. Obviously you can't so I'm sorry to have to say you are lumped in with the group who aren't capable of accepting a correction. Too darn right I'm complaining about how the club is run, I did warn the happy clappers where it would lead, now here we are, losses that couldn't have been imagined and we are a 4th division team again, and the stadium has more tents than ever. It looks as if your grouping me in good company. People who are willing to give people a chance, willing to support the club through thick and thin, until there is clear evidence we are going in the wrong direction. Relegation is not evidence, its sport and why we love it. I am still trying to work out what you want. It's probably something very similar to me. 1) a club 2) success 3) a stadium we can be proud of 4) seen as part of the community 5) financial stabilisation and sustainability 1 and 4 we have, 2,3 and 5 still seems closer than what we had under Higgs. So tell me, what do you want? Progress is slow, but is still better than what we were looking at 6 years ago. As one of Nick Higgs’ most vociferous critics I feel well qualified to address your points 2, 3 and 5 holmesgas1. 2) You must mean sustained success on the pitch but to say that when we have just been relegated and are apparently embarking on a complete rebuild of the football structure seems an incredible statement to make. If you believe Barton is the reason we will achieve success then it can only be based on wishful thinking because his track record shows he is a disrupter not a builder of anything. Despite all his faults Nick Higgs helped Darrell Clarke engineer successive promotions to League 1 level but now we are hurtling backwards again with no strategy to replace the previous one other than “Joey is on another level. 3) Nick Higgs had credibility in Bristol which is why UWE and South Glos Council were happy to work with him. The UWE plans were exciting and the best chance in most of our lifetimes for Rovers to get a new stadium so it was extremely disappointing that they didn’t succeed. I am afraid the Al-Qadi family do not have the same credibility with potential stadium partners and since Wael stated he was determined to maintain control of Rovers the chances of us getting a new stadium have diminished considerably. Many Gasheads “like” Wael but in the world of business and commerce decisions are not made on “liking” but on credibility and track record. Anyone considering putting up capital to build or lease a stadium for Rovers will look at the five years of financial failure and decide that with that level of incompetence it would be much too risky. 5) Under Nick Higgs trading losses were about 1 million a year and now (pre COVID) they are over 3 million. We are getting further away from financial stability and sustainability not closer to it. And as more and more irrational decisions are made the cost base will increase and the losses get even bigger. But the most damning aspect of all this is the impact on Rovers chances of survival. A company losing 1 million a year with debts of 7 million, as in Nick Higgs time, is something an investor may feel they can take over and turn around which is what Dwane Sports did. But a company losing 3+ million per year with debts of 12 million is a very unattractive prospect. So it appears to be the case, and most Gasheads seem happy with this, that we are destined to carry on hoping for the best and praying that Wael continues to get a little Xtra help from the Halifax.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2021 15:34:36 GMT
The question is surely whether Barton means it when he says he is remorseful. The Oxford Union debate was in 2014 and the autobiography was written prior to 2016 but since then he has been kicked out of Rangers for abusing his manager and fellow players, banned by the FA for illegal betting and is now charged with assaulting another manager. Isn’t it a case of actions speaking louder than words ? Sounds reasonable.
And as manager of BRFC, he hasnt done anything wrong off the pitch has he?
Unless some people have decided to judge in future on what managers/players do eleswhere rather than at BRFC. Now that would be interesting
Perhaps that will be the mantra in future, along with guilty until proved innocent.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2021 16:07:34 GMT
For the 4th time, show me where the prejudice is. Obviously you can't so I'm sorry to have to say you are lumped in with the group who aren't capable of accepting a correction. Too darn right I'm complaining about how the club is run, I did warn the happy clappers where it would lead, now here we are, losses that couldn't have been imagined and we are a 4th division team again, and the stadium has more tents than ever. It looks as if your grouping me in good company. People who are willing to give people a chance, willing to support the club through thick and thin, until there is clear evidence we are going in the wrong direction. Relegation is not evidence, its sport and why we love it. I am still trying to work out what you want. It's probably something very similar to me. 1) a club 2) success 3) a stadium we can be proud of 4) seen as part of the community 5) financial stabilisation and sustainability 1 and 4 we have, 2,3 and 5 still seems closer than what we had under Higgs. So tell me, what do you want? Progress is slow, but is still better than what we were looking at 6 years ago. Now you are changing the subject. For the 5th time, show me where the prejudice is please. You can't can you. 6 years ago we had just been promoted back to the football League, so there was upwards trajectory, we had the core of the squad that were about to be promoted to L1, UWE was still an active plan and losses were a fraction of what we were running up even pre-lockdown. And the manager didn't have multiple convictions relating to assaulting people.
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knowall
Joined: August 2019
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Post by knowall on Jun 5, 2021 16:27:46 GMT
So commenting on the club being associated with a convicted thug whilst he has a charge for the exact same thing and a court case scheduled, in your mind, means that the division and damaging behaviour originates on my side of the divide. That's such a puerile argument that nobody who had given it more than 5 seconds of consideration would have presented that I'm afraid I'm going to have to explain, in very simple terms, why it's baseless. If the lout wasn't here there would be no division. It's not just a handful of Rovers' supporters pretending to be virtuous Bas, find the story on the BBC site the day relegation was confirmed and see what supporters of clubs around the country said in the comments section. And you have just confirmed what I said earlier. Prejudice. Thank you for defining your own example. Also you were complaining about everything before JB came in, so please don't mention unity has been lost due to him. The only way unity will start is if you start to support Bristol Rovers instead of continually looking for ways to criticise. I am sorry to disagree with your opinion Holmes because I have the highest respect for you. However, in this debate I have to take issue. Bristol Rovers have always been a good example of 'right' in what is often a murky world that is professional football. Perhaps the best example being when BRFC blew the whistle on Esmond Million and others who damaged the world of football, which at the time also severely damaged BRFC. Younger readers of this forum will probably have no knowledge of that but I still regard it as a wonderful example of fair play in football which so many Clubs will never achieve. Of course everybody deserves a 'second chance', but how many chances are you/we willing to give Mr Barton?? Others have listed the offences that Barton has been guilty of, mainly with no apology or explanation, and whilst none of us are completely 'whiter that white' I am sure most will not have committed offence after offence as per has been listed for our current manager. In my seventy odd years supporting the Gas I have always wanted the best, but only by fair and honest means and if that means coming second - then so be it. The question we all need to consider is 'will Mr Barton and his staff work to the highest degree of honesty? in his dealing for and on behalf of BRFC - if not - then we should ask him to leave, but if he can honestly answer yes - and then do so - then MAYBE (and the jury is watching) - we could give him yet another chance (how many chances is that?) Personally, I can think of many better qualified potential managers - come back DARRELL please!
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Post by swissgas on Jun 5, 2021 17:25:46 GMT
The question is surely whether Barton means it when he says he is remorseful. The Oxford Union debate was in 2014 and the autobiography was written prior to 2016 but since then he has been kicked out of Rangers for abusing his manager and fellow players, banned by the FA for illegal betting and is now charged with assaulting another manager. Isn’t it a case of actions speaking louder than words ? Sounds reasonable.
And as manager of BRFC, he hasnt done anything wrong off the pitch has he?
Unless some people have decided to judge in future on what managers/players do eleswhere rather than at BRFC. Now that would be interesting
Perhaps that will be the mantra in future, along with guilty until proved innocent.
It looks like another case of vision versus plan. If you choose a new manager based on a vision it is easy to conjure up an image in your mind of the high profile star Barton, with his millions of twitterers, leading Rovers to success and you basking in the glory of having turned his career around. As I said before he was appointed “will it be a case of Al-Qadi tames bad boy Barton ?” If you have a plan to choose a manager then it will include that potential upside but it will also consider the potential downside. You will look at his past track record, which is very consistent, and weight up the chances of you being able to curb the disruptive tendencies and outrageous behavior whilst optimizing the positive attributes. Based on what we know of Barton I think the chances of him suddenly becoming a reformed character are so slim that the downside of appointing him far exceeded the upside. And this has been borne out in his short time at Rovers where we have already seen him excel at disruption so the odds must surely be in favour of some outrageous behavior coming next.
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Post by droitwichgas on Jun 5, 2021 19:30:00 GMT
And you have just confirmed what I said earlier. Prejudice. Thank you for defining your own example. Also you were complaining about everything before JB came in, so please don't mention unity has been lost due to him. The only way unity will start is if you start to support Bristol Rovers instead of continually looking for ways to criticise. I am sorry to disagree with your opinion Holmes because I have the highest respect for you. However, in this debate I have to take issue. Bristol Rovers have always been a good example of 'right' in what is often a murky world that is professional football. Perhaps the best example being when BRFC blew the whistle on Esmond Million and others who damaged the world of football, which at the time also severely damaged BRFC. Younger readers of this forum will probably have no knowledge of that but I still regard it as a wonderful example of fair play in football which so many Clubs will never achieve. Of course everybody deserves a 'second chance', but how many chances are you/we willing to give Mr Barton?? Others have listed the offences that Barton has been guilty of, mainly with no apology or explanation, and whilst none of us are completely 'whiter that white' I am sure most will not have committed offence after offence as per has been listed for our current manager. In my seventy odd years supporting the Gas I have always wanted the best, but only by fair and honest means and if that means coming second - then so be it. The question we all need to consider is 'will Mr Barton and his staff work to the highest degree of honesty? in his dealing for and on behalf of BRFC - if not - then we should ask him to leave, but if he can honestly answer yes - and then do so - then MAYBE (and the jury is watching) - we could give him yet another chance (how many chances is that?) Personally, I can think of many better qualified potential managers - come back DARRELL please! Surely you forgot to add "fingers crossed" ?
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