warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on May 11, 2021 8:45:21 GMT
It wasn’t our mistake though. Most of us have shown unswerving support, over decades. I believe we deserve better. I don’t like Barton but I still want us to succeed, he has done nothing but moan and show utter contempt for the players. I’m no manager but have managed, in the workplace & I know the constant criticism and then picking out a player that the players voted to be captain, as extremely poorly executed decisions. I have seen absolutely no evidence the Barton can truly manage. Please tell me what you see as his potential, I am genuinely interested in your views holmesgas1 . I enjoy reading your posts but I would like to know what you feel he brings to the club I fully agree with you that the fans deserve better with us showing unwavering support over many dark years, only punctuated by DCs magic 3 years. Like you I do not like the public criticism as similar to your experience have managed at a high level and having a motivated team makes a massive difference to their effectiveness and rarely does public humiliation help. However in saying that, why am I supporting JB. One is nothing to do with him, I just don't think we can keep swapping managers every 5 minutes; we need some consistency. JB can provide this, he has had relative success at Fleetwood, and from friends who have links there, believe he did a good job and was a good coach. He was good at bringing younger players in, but ensured the spine of the team was strong and experienced. He has good contacts, and a strong drive to win. Probably too strong at times. Also developed a good culture at the club and will not be afraid to get of rid of deadwood if they don't fit, which is something we definitely need. So yes risky, but this was not his team, thus I'm willing to give him the chance to see what he can build, and if he can deliver here. There is no guarantees, just I believe he has got a better chance than most, based upon the candidates we may currently attract. Lastly and I know this does not go down well with some. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on his past. Currently he has done nothing to harm our reputation other than be part of a relegation. If he can be successful it will be only be good for him and us from a PR perspective. Of course not a zero risk strategy, but maybe I'm just looking forward to the ride, which at the very least should be exciting. Yes, that’s pretty much on the nail as far as I’m concerned. We really have to stop sacking managers. Of course it’s not a zero risk strategy but no managerial appointment is. There’s never a guarantee. The only thing I’d add is that JB needs to use the past few months to hopefully learn how not to manage as much as what he’s learnt about the players. His habit of publicly criticising players publicly needs to stop, albeit they may not be “his” players. From February onwards they were all we had and the way we collapsed and almost gave up in the last 6/7 matches was shameful. Blimey every other club showed some fight and pride, we showed none and that came from the impact of the managers man-management. I’m excited too by what he could build given time but I still feel that in many ways he’s a lucky man to still have a job after his woeful 18 games. It’s almost as if he’s relying on faith more so than his record. But I’m a BRFC supporter so I support our manager through thick and thin. I’m looking forward to some “thick”!! The first 10-15 games will be crucial, as they always are, but perhaps more so in JB’s case next season. UTG!
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on May 11, 2021 8:58:19 GMT
If Knowall and you want the club to be run breaking even we may as well start preparing for life in the National League again as virtually every club makes a loss. As far as the the training ground, unless you've seen the club accounts, like the rest of us, you've no idea how that is being funded by DS. PS I'm still waiting for names of potential out of work managers to replace Barton. I haven't got time to list them. It's much easier the other way round. Can you think of anyone at the time of the appointment who would have been worse? Based on his previous character, I cannot think of anyone who has managed in the top 3 tiers who would have been a more abhorrent and devisive appointment. Since then his track record speaks for itself.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2021 9:21:36 GMT
I fully agree with you that the fans deserve better with us showing unwavering support over many dark years, only punctuated by DCs magic 3 years. Like you I do not like the public criticism as similar to your experience have managed at a high level and having a motivated team makes a massive difference to their effectiveness and rarely does public humiliation help. However in saying that, why am I supporting JB. One is nothing to do with him, I just don't think we can keep swapping managers every 5 minutes; we need some consistency. JB can provide this, he has had relative success at Fleetwood, and from friends who have links there, believe he did a good job and was a good coach. He was good at bringing younger players in, but ensured the spine of the team was strong and experienced. He has good contacts, and a strong drive to win. Probably too strong at times. Also developed a good culture at the club and will not be afraid to get of rid of deadwood if they don't fit, which is something we definitely need. So yes risky, but this was not his team, thus I'm willing to give him the chance to see what he can build, and if he can deliver here. There is no guarantees, just I believe he has got a better chance than most, based upon the candidates we may currently attract. Lastly and I know this does not go down well with some. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on his past. Currently he has done nothing to harm our reputation other than be part of a relegation. If he can be successful it will be only be good for him and us from a PR perspective. Of course not a zero risk strategy, but maybe I'm just looking forward to the ride, which at the very least should be exciting. I doubt I will ever take to the bloke. If he gets us promoted, of course i will be happy and I would appreciate the job he did, but i find his character currently annoying, ignoring all his other misdemeanours If you take away any feeling and look at the appointment objectively we gave a 2 and a half year contract (irrespective of any break/severance clauses/payouts. After all the intention of any manager appointment is for them to remain in place) to a bloke with a criminal court case hanging over him and us. his his first task with all that in mind, was to keep us up and he failed whilst running his mouth about anything and everything, irrespective of if he speaks the truth. He played to the crowd, whilst washing his hands of it, talking of great resets and promoting his methods. He has bigged himself up, so now its time to deliver. If he is still here. Part of me wants him to get banged up and/or a lengthy FA ban as it will top the clusterf of a season off and prove what a s*** appointment it was to begin with in trying to keep us up, let alone the bloke tasked with rebuilding the club There are zero excuses now for Joey or the club whatever happens between now, June 7th and beyond Great post PP. The only 1 thing is that if he's still here after next season starts and things aren't going well, don't you worry, he'll find excuses, plenty of them.
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vaughan
Joined: June 2014
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Post by vaughan on May 11, 2021 9:39:47 GMT
10 posts a day!!!
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2021 9:49:36 GMT
You can join in, nothing stopping you. Or if you have an issue then ask the moderators to set a daily limit. Or mind your own business.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2021 9:56:31 GMT
Highly unlikely the admin will set a post limit, otherwise he'd be goosed.
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Post by holmesgas1 on May 11, 2021 12:58:19 GMT
I fully agree with you that the fans deserve better with us showing unwavering support over many dark years, only punctuated by DCs magic 3 years. Like you I do not like the public criticism as similar to your experience have managed at a high level and having a motivated team makes a massive difference to their effectiveness and rarely does public humiliation help. However in saying that, why am I supporting JB. One is nothing to do with him, I just don't think we can keep swapping managers every 5 minutes; we need some consistency. JB can provide this, he has had relative success at Fleetwood, and from friends who have links there, believe he did a good job and was a good coach. He was good at bringing younger players in, but ensured the spine of the team was strong and experienced. He has good contacts, and a strong drive to win. Probably too strong at times. Also developed a good culture at the club and will not be afraid to get of rid of deadwood if they don't fit, which is something we definitely need. So yes risky, but this was not his team, thus I'm willing to give him the chance to see what he can build, and if he can deliver here. There is no guarantees, just I believe he has got a better chance than most, based upon the candidates we may currently attract. Lastly and I know this does not go down well with some. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on his past. Currently he has done nothing to harm our reputation other than be part of a relegation. If he can be successful it will be only be good for him and us from a PR perspective. Of course not a zero risk strategy, but maybe I'm just looking forward to the ride, which at the very least should be exciting. I doubt I will ever take to the bloke. If he gets us promoted, of course i will be happy and I would appreciate the job he did, but i find his character currently annoying, ignoring all his other misdemeanours If you take away any feeling and look at the appointment objectively we gave a 2 and a half year contract (irrespective of any break/severance clauses/payouts. After all the intention of any manager appointment is for them to remain in place) to a bloke with a criminal court case hanging over him and us. his his first task with all that in mind, was to keep us up and he failed whilst running his mouth about anything and everything, irrespective of if he speaks the truth. He played to the crowd, whilst washing his hands of it, talking of great resets and promoting his methods. He has bigged himself up, so now its time to deliver. If he is still here. Part of me wants him to get banged up and/or a lengthy FA ban as it will top the clusterf of a season off and prove what a s*** appointment it was to begin with in trying to keep us up, let alone the bloke tasked with rebuilding the club There are zero excuses now for Joey or the club whatever happens between now, June 7th and beyond That's a fair summary and do expect the club to have protected its self if June 7th goes the wrong way. If they haven't that would be a failure of governance. If it goes well, your right it's time for him and the club to deliver, within sensible financial constraints. This includes not bringing in journeymen, but seasoned professionals who can mentor the youngsters we have as well as deliver on the field. Tony Craig, Andy Monkhouse were great examples of this. Let's then judge him after 15 or so games... I would expect us to be top 10 by then as a new team takes a while to settle and then crack on after that. Also as mentioned on another post, if its his team he needs to take responsibility for the good and bad, and look to build team spirit not destroy.
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Post by holmesgas1 on May 11, 2021 13:04:44 GMT
If Knowall and you want the club to be run breaking even we may as well start preparing for life in the National League again as virtually every club makes a loss. As far as the the training ground, unless you've seen the club accounts, like the rest of us, you've no idea how that is being funded by DS. PS I'm still waiting for names of potential out of work managers to replace Barton. I haven't got time to list them. It's much easier the other way round. Can you think of anyone at the time of the appointment who would have been worse? Based on his previous character, I cannot think of anyone who has managed in the top 3 tiers who would have been a more abhorrent and devisive appointment. Since then his track record speaks for itself. I didn't join your other game of name the name, but just to show I'm open minded. John Sheridan. If you tell me you would rather have him from a football perspective I'd be amazed. Ask any Swindon fan.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2021 15:03:32 GMT
I agree with much of what Holmes has stated. Just can't see the point of changing managers again. Having been at the club for a few months, who is best placed to judge the strengths/weaknesses of the players still with us? Who is good in the dressing room? Who may be mentally weak? Who can potentially step up? Who may need some mentoring to get them to perform? Who can be easily 'swayed' by team culture? This takes time to find out..
As stated above by Holmes, this will now be on JB to deliver.
One thing I would add which I think is important, in my experience the most successful managers at Rovers whilst I have been watching them have been those who were young, (in managers terms) driven, and had something to prove. Megson, Francis, Trollope, Clarke. Even those who never took us up but had a degree of success were of similar ilk - Williams, Ward first time around, Holloway. Those 'experienced' managers not so, generally. Some exceptions I know, but just a general theme.
So JB has to deliver as stated above, and would appear to be 'driven' to do this, not least because if he is not successful I'm not sure what doors would be open for him as a manager
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vaughan
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,237
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Post by vaughan on May 11, 2021 15:59:14 GMT
I agree with much of what Holmes has stated. Just can't see the point of changing managers again. Having been at the club for a few months, who is best placed to judge the strengths/weaknesses of the players still with us? Who is good in the dressing room? Who may be mentally weak? Who can potentially step up? Who may need some mentoring to get them to perform? Who can be easily 'swayed' by team culture? This takes time to find out.. As stated above by Holmes, this will now be on JB to deliver. One thing I would add which I think is important, in my experience the most successful managers at Rovers whilst I have been watching them have been those who were young, (in managers terms) driven, and had something to prove. Megson, Francis, Trollope, Clarke. Even those who never took us up but had a degree of success were of similar ilk - Williams, Ward first time around, Holloway. Those 'experienced' managers not so, generally. Some exceptions I know, but just a general theme. So JB has to deliver as stated above, and would appear to be 'driven' to do this, not least because if he is not successful I'm not sure what doors would be open for him as a manager Yes, he is in a last chance saloon for QUICKLY climbing the managerial ladder. He needs a promotion quickly, as his baggage goes against him for some. 😂😂 If Cheltenham, Forest Green and Newport can make the top 7 of League 2, nothing but a top 7 place will do next season..I suggest.
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on May 11, 2021 16:07:25 GMT
I haven't got time to list them. It's much easier the other way round. Can you think of anyone at the time of the appointment who would have been worse? Based on his previous character, I cannot think of anyone who has managed in the top 3 tiers who would have been a more abhorrent and divisive appointment. Since then his track record speaks for itself. I didn't join your other game of name the name, but just to show I'm open minded. John Sheridan. If you tell me you would rather have him from a football perspective I'd be amazed. Ask any Swindon fan. Well holmes, I did say " Based on his previous character, I cannot think of anyone who has managed in the top 3 tiers who would have been a more abhorrent and divisive appointment." And I'll stand by that. There is no-one worse. But if you want to widen the search out to look at suitability in terms of football success and character. OK. From a purely footballing perspective, both have questionable records in management, though Mr Sheridan has a lot more experience. Mr Sheridan does not have two criminal convictions for violence, and does not have a third hanging over him. He also does not have a litany of other transgressions (that I am aware of). He is not obsessed with the cult of celebrity. So on balance, looking at the character and the degree of footballing success, given the choice of Mr Sheridan or Mr Barton as Bristol Rovers manager, I would chose Mr Sheridan. The appointment may have made me raise an eye-brow. But I wouldn't have been angry. I wouldn't have been embarrassed. I would still have actively supported Bristol Rovers FC. Have another go. Maybe ask some of the 'upstanding people in Manchester and Liverpool' you know to help out.
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Post by holmesgas1 on May 11, 2021 16:29:09 GMT
I didn't join your other game of name the name, but just to show I'm open minded. John Sheridan. If you tell me you would rather have him from a football perspective I'd be amazed. Ask any Swindon fan. Well holmes, I did say " Based on his previous character, I cannot think of anyone who has managed in the top 3 tiers who would have been a more abhorrent and divisive appointment." And I'll stand by that. There is no-one worse. But if you want to widen the search out to look at suitability in terms of football success and character. OK. From a purely footballing perspective, both have questionable records in management, though Mr Sheridan has a lot more experience. Mr Sheridan does not have two criminal convictions for violence, and does not have a third hanging over him. He also does not have a litany of other transgressions (that I am aware of). He is not obsessed with the cult of celebrity. So on balance, looking at the character and the degree of footballing success, given the choice of Mr Sheridan or Mr Barton as Bristol Rovers manager, I would chose Mr Sheridan. The appointment may have made me raise an eye-brow. But I wouldn't have been angry. I wouldn't have been embarrassed. I would still have actively supported Bristol Rovers FC. Have another go. Maybe ask some of the 'upstanding people in Manchester and Liverpool' you know to help out. Well a Sheridan pick would have definitely divided the fan base, though maybe for different reasons, and yes as the pubs are opening next week, I might well ask for a few opinions.
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Post by droitwichgas on May 11, 2021 17:49:00 GMT
I agree with much of what Holmes has stated. Just can't see the point of changing managers again. Having been at the club for a few months, who is best placed to judge the strengths/weaknesses of the players still with us? Who is good in the dressing room? Who may be mentally weak? Who can potentially step up? Who may need some mentoring to get them to perform? Who can be easily 'swayed' by team culture? This takes time to find out.. As stated above by Holmes, this will now be on JB to deliver. One thing I would add which I think is important, in my experience the most successful managers at Rovers whilst I have been watching them have been those who were young, (in managers terms) driven, and had something to prove. Megson, Francis, Trollope, Clarke. Even those who never took us up but had a degree of success were of similar ilk - Williams, Ward first time around, Holloway. Those 'experienced' managers not so, generally. Some exceptions I know, but just a general theme. So JB has to deliver as stated above, and would appear to be 'driven' to do this, not least because if he is not successful I'm not sure what doors would be open for him as a manager Yes, he is in a last chance saloon for QUICKLY climbing the managerial ladder. He needs a promotion quickly, as his baggage goes against him for some. 😂😂 If Cheltenham, Forest Green and Newport can make the top 7 of League 2, nothing but a top 7 place will do next season..I suggest. Bradford show it's not that easy to make the top 7, although Bolton prove you can bounce back from relegation, I assume their must have been some control over their spending.
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Post by droitwichgas on May 11, 2021 17:51:10 GMT
I doubt I will ever take to the bloke. If he gets us promoted, of course i will be happy and I would appreciate the job he did, but i find his character currently annoying, ignoring all his other misdemeanours If you take away any feeling and look at the appointment objectively we gave a 2 and a half year contract (irrespective of any break/severance clauses/payouts. After all the intention of any manager appointment is for them to remain in place) to a bloke with a criminal court case hanging over him and us. his his first task with all that in mind, was to keep us up and he failed whilst running his mouth about anything and everything, irrespective of if he speaks the truth. He played to the crowd, whilst washing his hands of it, talking of great resets and promoting his methods. He has bigged himself up, so now its time to deliver. If he is still here. Part of me wants him to get banged up and/or a lengthy FA ban as it will top the clusterf of a season off and prove what a s*** appointment it was to begin with in trying to keep us up, let alone the bloke tasked with rebuilding the club There are zero excuses now for Joey or the club whatever happens between now, June 7th and beyond That's a fair summary and do expect the club to have protected its self if June 7th goes the wrong way. If they haven't that would be a failure of governance. If it goes well, your right it's time for him and the club to deliver, within sensible financial constraints. This includes not bringing in journeymen, but seasoned professionals who can mentor the youngsters we have as well as deliver on the field. Tony Craig, Andy Monkhouse were great examples of this. Let's then judge him after 15 or so games... I would expect us to be top 10 by then as a new team takes a while to settle and then crack on after that. Also as mentioned on another post, if its his team he needs to take responsibility for the good and bad, and look to build team spirit not destroy. Problem is how do you know the next Craig isn't really the next Ehmer or Payne? Hopefully Barton has the contacts to know but only time will tell if he as.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
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Post by kingswood Polak on May 11, 2021 21:15:45 GMT
It wasn’t our mistake though. Most of us have shown unswerving support, over decades. I believe we deserve better. I don’t like Barton but I still want us to succeed, he has done nothing but moan and show utter contempt for the players. I’m no manager but have managed, in the workplace & I know the constant criticism and then picking out a player that the players voted to be captain, as extremely poorly executed decisions. I have seen absolutely no evidence the Barton can truly manage. Please tell me what you see as his potential, I am genuinely interested in your views holmesgas1 . I enjoy reading your posts but I would like to know what you feel he brings to the club I fully agree with you that the fans deserve better with us showing unwavering support over many dark years, only punctuated by DCs magic 3 years. Like you I do not like the public criticism as similar to your experience have managed at a high level and having a motivated team makes a massive difference to their effectiveness and rarely does public humiliation help. However in saying that, why am I supporting JB. One is nothing to do with him, I just don't think we can keep swapping managers every 5 minutes; we need some consistency. JB can provide this, he has had relative success at Fleetwood, and from friends who have links there, believe he did a good job and was a good coach. He was good at bringing younger players in, but ensured the spine of the team was strong and experienced. He has good contacts, and a strong drive to win. Probably too strong at times. Also developed a good culture at the club and will not be afraid to get of rid of deadwood if they don't fit, which is something we definitely need. So yes risky, but this was not his team, thus I'm willing to give him the chance to see what he can build, and if he can deliver here. There is no guarantees, just I believe he has got a better chance than most, based upon the candidates we may currently attract. Lastly and I know this does not go down well with some. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on his past. Currently he has done nothing to harm our reputation other than be part of a relegation. If he can be successful it will be only be good for him and us from a PR perspective. Of course not a zero risk strategy, but maybe I'm just looking forward to the ride, which at the very least should be exciting. Thank you for your reply. I only wish I could be as enthused as you as, right now, I feel like I couldn’t care less. The hatred and divide this has caused is palpable but I now have to let go and, hopefully, have a nice and warm summer
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Post by holmesgas1 on May 12, 2021 10:14:29 GMT
I fully agree with you that the fans deserve better with us showing unwavering support over many dark years, only punctuated by DCs magic 3 years. Like you I do not like the public criticism as similar to your experience have managed at a high level and having a motivated team makes a massive difference to their effectiveness and rarely does public humiliation help. However in saying that, why am I supporting JB. One is nothing to do with him, I just don't think we can keep swapping managers every 5 minutes; we need some consistency. JB can provide this, he has had relative success at Fleetwood, and from friends who have links there, believe he did a good job and was a good coach. He was good at bringing younger players in, but ensured the spine of the team was strong and experienced. He has good contacts, and a strong drive to win. Probably too strong at times. Also developed a good culture at the club and will not be afraid to get of rid of deadwood if they don't fit, which is something we definitely need. So yes risky, but this was not his team, thus I'm willing to give him the chance to see what he can build, and if he can deliver here. There is no guarantees, just I believe he has got a better chance than most, based upon the candidates we may currently attract. Lastly and I know this does not go down well with some. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on his past. Currently he has done nothing to harm our reputation other than be part of a relegation. If he can be successful it will be only be good for him and us from a PR perspective. Of course not a zero risk strategy, but maybe I'm just looking forward to the ride, which at the very least should be exciting. Thank you for your reply. I only wish I could be as enthused as you as, right now, I feel like I couldn’t care less. The hatred and divide this has caused is palpable but I now have to let go and, hopefully, have a nice and warm summer Yes it's not good having the fan base polarised, but here's hoping as we go into autumn we can all see light at the end of the tunnel. Enjoy your summer.
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Angas
Joined: May 2014
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Post by Angas on May 12, 2021 13:37:54 GMT
That tunnel just got a whole lot longer with the loss of Lee Mansell!
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on May 12, 2021 13:53:31 GMT
That tunnel just got a whole lot longer with the loss of Lee Mansell! Now I am truly extremely concerned. Surely no true Rovers supporter can see that as a good thing. Thanks for this Angas
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Post by laughinggas on May 12, 2021 14:17:30 GMT
That tunnel just got a whole lot longer with the loss of Lee Mansell! Now I am truly extremely concerned. Surely no true Rovers supporter can see that as a good thing. Thanks for this AngasSimplistically you are correct but as we know no details hard to judge If it is the correct outcome. Just because he is a legend does not mean he was best at the job. Will we ever know?
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Peter Parker
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Richard Walker
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Post by Peter Parker on May 12, 2021 14:30:14 GMT
Now I am truly extremely concerned. Surely no true Rovers supporter can see that as a good thing. Thanks for this Angas Simplistically you are correct but as we know no details hard to judge If it is the correct outcome. Just because he is a legend does not mean he was best at the job. Will we ever know?probably not. We can argue who should stay or go, but it appears the club are gutting everything with a lot of input from Joey I don't know whether Manse should stay or go, but as I said on twitter to somewhere, just because lots of things are wrong and need to be rebuilt, it doesn't mean some of the old parts aren't still useful and again, i hate to keep saying it, but it doesn't go away, we could be clearing everyone and everything out only for the manager to get f**ked off in a few weeks so the club better be 100% confident
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