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Post by droitwichgas on May 10, 2021 20:46:11 GMT
Pretty sure he was left alone to sign a striker in January, I also assume it was his decision to let Davies join Barrow. Your evidence for either of those things would be? Zilch is the answer, other than it would support your presuppositions. Given we didn't sign a striker when we apparently had the funds to do so it seems highly likely that it was down to the manager, Sam Frost seems convinced anyway.
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Post by droitwichgas on May 10, 2021 20:49:14 GMT
Your evidence for either of those things would be? Zilch is the answer, other than it would support your presuppositions. I wonder if the truth will ever come out. Damn NDA's but there are enough clues out there including the DOF stating categorically that we already had enough goals in the team "100%" How about the other clues, Starnes saying we offered more than Charlton were prepared to pay Preston? TW would have been slaughtered if he'd said post Tisdale's sacking that "the lack of goals in the team will most likely see us relegated".
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2021 20:49:56 GMT
Your evidence for either of those things would be? Zilch is the answer, other than it would support your presuppositions. Given we didn't sign a striker when we apparently had the funds to do so it seems highly likely that it was down to the manager, Sam Frost seems convinced anyway. Sam Frost wouldn't have a clue what questions to ask to get the real answers but if we are now to believe Bristol Live is 100% accurate then things have improved drastically at the local rag.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2021 20:52:30 GMT
Your evidence for either of those things would be? Zilch is the answer, other than it would support your presuppositions. Given we didn't sign a striker when we apparently had the funds to do so it seems highly likely that it was down to the manager, Sam Frost seems convinced anyway. And given the NDAs that Rovers seem to be fond of at present, where would the semi-literate Frost have obtained that information?
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2021 20:54:22 GMT
I wonder if the truth will ever come out. Damn NDA's but there are enough clues out there including the DOF stating categorically that we already had enough goals in the team "100%" How about the other clues, Starnes saying we offered more than Charlton were prepared to pay Preston? TW would have been slaughtered if he'd said post Tisdale's sacking that "the lack of goals in the team will most likely see us relegated". Well both Tisdale and Barton agreed that there weren't. Tisdale needed his DOF with him and not having him was another reason why I though appointing Tisdale was a strange decision even more strange was Tisdale agreeing to come to Rovers in the first place. TW has been slaughtered any way because not all fans are stupid and have now seen through the smokescreen.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2021 20:59:14 GMT
I wonder if the truth will ever come out. Damn NDA's but there are enough clues out there including the DOF stating categorically that we already had enough goals in the team "100%" How about the other clues, Starnes saying we offered more than Charlton were prepared to pay Preston? TW would have been slaughtered if he'd said post Tisdale's sacking that "the lack of goals in the team will most likely see us relegated". Well, Widdrington was very quick to stab Tisdale in the back during a post match interview. Now Frost is writing stuff laying the blame squarely at Tisdale's feet. Here's the thing as I see it. Everything turned to absolute dog dirt the moment Garner arrived. The recruitment through the summer was pathetic. Recruitment in Jan was non-existent. Maybe the thing to do to understand what's happened here is to look for common denominators?
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Post by droitwichgas on May 10, 2021 21:11:53 GMT
How about the other clues, Starnes saying we offered more than Charlton were prepared to pay Preston? TW would have been slaughtered if he'd said post Tisdale's sacking that "the lack of goals in the team will most likely see us relegated". Well, Widdrington was very quick to stab Tisdale in the back during a post match interview. Now Frost is writing stuff laying the blame squarely at Tisdale's feet. Here's the thing as I see it. Everything turned to absolute dog dirt the moment Garner arrived. The recruitment through the summer was pathetic. Recruitment in Jan was non-existent. Maybe the thing to do to understand what's happened here is to look for common denominators? Recruitment in the summer was OK numbers wise, just Garner/TW recruited the wrong players. A decent replacement for Craig rather than Ehmer and Baldwin and another striker instead of 3 LB's and half a dozen CM's and we might have been OK. As far as January everything points to chasing Stockley, if we couldn't afford a striker then why and try and sign him. If TW choose not to sign a striker then I can't see how he'd personally benefit.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2021 21:18:11 GMT
Well, Widdrington was very quick to stab Tisdale in the back during a post match interview. Now Frost is writing stuff laying the blame squarely at Tisdale's feet. Here's the thing as I see it. Everything turned to absolute dog dirt the moment Garner arrived. The recruitment through the summer was pathetic. Recruitment in Jan was non-existent. Maybe the thing to do to understand what's happened here is to look for common denominators? Recruitment in the summer was OK numbers wise, just Garner/TW recruited the wrong players.
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Post by holmesgas1 on May 10, 2021 21:20:11 GMT
Seems to me some people will scrabble around trying to find ways to make it fine for JB to be our manager. Just speculation on my part, of course. exactly as I see it. Scratching my head as to why though Very simple really, innocent until proved guilty and in footballing terms there probably isn't anyone better at the current point to take us forward, based upon the mess we find ourselves. I know you disagree on both those points, but that's life.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2021 21:26:48 GMT
exactly as I see it. Scratching my head as to why though Very simple really, innocent until proved guilty and in footballing terms there probably isn't anyone better at the current point to take us forward, based upon the mess we find ourselves. I know you disagree on both those points, but that's life. I agree with the first point but disagree with the second. We won't have long to wait regarding the first point and that will decide if we get the chance to see if you are right regarding the second. I hope we don't get off to a poor start next season because we already know that Barton cannot motivate a struggling team and that is a proven fact.
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Post by swissgas on May 10, 2021 21:27:18 GMT
If Knowall and you want the club to be run breaking even we may as well start preparing for life in the National League again as virtually every club makes a loss. As far as the the training ground, unless you've seen the club accounts, like the rest of us, you've no idea how that is being funded by DS. PS I'm still waiting for names of potential out of work managers to replace Barton. I was just trying to explain how the club is in debt to Dwane Sports. Wael himself has acknowledged this is inevitable as the club continues to run up losses and said he will carry out further capitalizations in the future. I think what knowall is saying is that the level of losses is unsustainable and unnecessary because if you look at other clubs in the lower leagues they don't lose money at this rate and yet their teams perform better than Rovers. It is clear that BRFC or BRFC1883 Ltd are paying for the work at the training ground. The last accounts with a degree of transparency showed BRFC 1883 Ltd had paid for work at the ground and was owed that money by Dwane Colony Ltd. Others have said it would make sense for one of the UK companies to pay for work because they are VAT registered whereas Dwane Colony Ltd are not. We have senior people at the club, including the manager, talking about "owning" the training ground. And companies which have supplied equipment and carried out work have said their customer is Bristol Rovers. So it looks very much as though Dwane Sports have loaned money for the training ground development to Rovers and so the club, though they may not own the land, do own the buildings and pitches there. I just hope there is a formal agreement between the companies which sets this out so there is no possibility of a can of worms bursting open in the future.
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Post by droitwichgas on May 10, 2021 21:28:53 GMT
exactly as I see it. Scratching my head as to why though Very simple really, innocent until proved guilty and in footballing terms there probably isn't anyone better at the current point to take us forward, based upon the mess we find ourselves. I know you disagree on both those points, but that's life. Boring Kenny Jacket is apparently a better option! Its interesting JB said yesterday there was money available in January for a striker, which knocks on the head the suggestion Wael wouldn't fund the signing. I guess JB speaking the truth whilst backing Wael is never going to go down well with some posters on this forum.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2021 21:33:29 GMT
Very simple really, innocent until proved guilty and in footballing terms there probably isn't anyone better at the current point to take us forward, based upon the mess we find ourselves. I know you disagree on both those points, but that's life. Boring Kenny Jacket is apparently a better option! Its interesting JB said yesterday there was money available in January for a striker, which knocks on the head the suggestion Wael wouldn't fund the signing. I guess JB speaking the truth whilst backing Wael is never going to go down well with some posters on this forum. IMO Decent human being Kenny Jacket would be by far a better option than the convicted thug we currently have. Your standards are clear and you are entitled to them. I respect Wael but it's a shame his investment isn't being put to better use.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2021 21:44:21 GMT
Very simple really, innocent until proved guilty and in footballing terms there probably isn't anyone better at the current point to take us forward, based upon the mess we find ourselves. I know you disagree on both those points, but that's life. Boring Kenny Jacket is apparently a better option! Its interesting JB said yesterday there was money available in January for a striker, which knocks on the head the suggestion Wael wouldn't fund the signing. I guess JB speaking the truth whilst backing Wael is never going to go down well with some posters on this forum. Do you suppose that Barton was part of conference calls being made regarding recruitment in December and January, if so, how many other out of work managers do you think were invited in to be part of any negotiations were were in the midst of, or could it be that all that he has to go on is what he's being told by Wael and a bloke who was very quick to lay the boot into Tisdale blaming him for not utilising players well and claiming that those players were good enough?
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Post by holmesgas1 on May 10, 2021 22:05:21 GMT
Not sure that's true. I just think most fans think Joey Barton has the best chance of giving us success. Our biggest mistake was allowing a rookie manager a full control. With a Lennie Laurance type figure in the background it may worked. It's clear Widdrington didn't give that old hand support. It wasn’t our mistake though. Most of us have shown unswerving support, over decades. I believe we deserve better. I don’t like Barton but I still want us to succeed, he has done nothing but moan and show utter contempt for the players. I’m no manager but have managed, in the workplace & I know the constant criticism and then picking out a player that the players voted to be captain, as extremely poorly executed decisions. I have seen absolutely no evidence the Barton can truly manage. Please tell me what you see as his potential, I am genuinely interested in your views holmesgas1. I enjoy reading your posts but I would like to know what you feel he brings to the club I fully agree with you that the fans deserve better with us showing unwavering support over many dark years, only punctuated by DCs magic 3 years. Like you I do not like the public criticism as similar to your experience have managed at a high level and having a motivated team makes a massive difference to their effectiveness and rarely does public humiliation help. However in saying that, why am I supporting JB. One is nothing to do with him, I just don't think we can keep swapping managers every 5 minutes; we need some consistency. JB can provide this, he has had relative success at Fleetwood, and from friends who have links there, believe he did a good job and was a good coach. He was good at bringing younger players in, but ensured the spine of the team was strong and experienced. He has good contacts, and a strong drive to win. Probably too strong at times. Also developed a good culture at the club and will not be afraid to get of rid of deadwood if they don't fit, which is something we definitely need. So yes risky, but this was not his team, thus I'm willing to give him the chance to see what he can build, and if he can deliver here. There is no guarantees, just I believe he has got a better chance than most, based upon the candidates we may currently attract. Lastly and I know this does not go down well with some. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on his past. Currently he has done nothing to harm our reputation other than be part of a relegation. If he can be successful it will be only be good for him and us from a PR perspective. Of course not a zero risk strategy, but maybe I'm just looking forward to the ride, which at the very least should be exciting.
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Post by a more piratey game on May 10, 2021 22:08:27 GMT
It wasn’t our mistake though. Most of us have shown unswerving support, over decades. I believe we deserve better. I don’t like Barton but I still want us to succeed, he has done nothing but moan and show utter contempt for the players. I’m no manager but have managed, in the workplace & I know the constant criticism and then picking out a player that the players voted to be captain, as extremely poorly executed decisions. I have seen absolutely no evidence the Barton can truly manage. Please tell me what you see as his potential, I am genuinely interested in your views holmesgas1. I enjoy reading your posts but I would like to know what you feel he brings to the club I fully agree with you that the fans deserve better with us showing unwavering support over many dark years, only punctuated by DCs magic 3 years. Like you I do not like the public criticism as similar to your experience have managed at a high level and having a motivated team makes a massive difference to their effectiveness and rarely does public humiliation help. However in saying that, why am I supporting JB. One is nothing to do with him, I just don't think we can keep swapping managers every 5 minutes; we need some consistency. JB can provide this, he has had relative success at Fleetwood, and from friends who have links there, believe he did a good job and was a good coach. He was good at bringing younger players in, but ensured the spine of the team was strong and experienced. He has good contacts, and a strong drive to win. Probably too strong at times. Also developed a good culture at the club and will not be afraid to get of rid of deadwood if they don't fit, which is something we definitely need. So yes risky, but this was not his team, thus I'm willing to give him the chance to see what he can build, and if he can deliver here. There is no guarantees, just I believe he has got a better chance than most, based upon the candidates we may currently attract. Lastly and I know this does not go down well with some. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on his past. Currently he has done nothing to harm our reputation other than be part of a relegation. If he can be successful it will be only be good for him and us from a PR perspective. Of course not a zero risk strategy, but maybe I'm just looking forward to the ride, which at the very least should be exciting. Don't agree with it, but as good an explanation as I've seen. Nice one holmes
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2021 22:10:53 GMT
I fully agree with you that the fans deserve better with us showing unwavering support over many dark years, only punctuated by DCs magic 3 years. Like you I do not like the public criticism as similar to your experience have managed at a high level and having a motivated team makes a massive difference to their effectiveness and rarely does public humiliation help. However in saying that, why am I supporting JB. One is nothing to do with him, I just don't think we can keep swapping managers every 5 minutes; we need some consistency. JB can provide this, he has had relative success at Fleetwood, and from friends who have links there, believe he did a good job and was a good coach. He was good at bringing younger players in, but ensured the spine of the team was strong and experienced. He has good contacts, and a strong drive to win. Probably too strong at times. Also developed a good culture at the club and will not be afraid to get of rid of deadwood if they don't fit, which is something we definitely need. So yes risky, but this was not his team, thus I'm willing to give him the chance to see what he can build, and if he can deliver here. There is no guarantees, just I believe he has got a better chance than most, based upon the candidates we may currently attract. Lastly and I know this does not go down well with some. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on his past. Currently he has done nothing to harm our reputation other than be part of a relegation. If he can be successful it will be only be good for him and us from a PR perspective. Of course not a zero risk strategy, but maybe I'm just looking forward to the ride, which at the very least should be exciting. Don't agree with it, but as good an explanation as I've seen. Nice one holmes Agreed, a reasoned explanation.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2021 22:42:39 GMT
It wasn’t our mistake though. Most of us have shown unswerving support, over decades. I believe we deserve better. I don’t like Barton but I still want us to succeed, he has done nothing but moan and show utter contempt for the players. I’m no manager but have managed, in the workplace & I know the constant criticism and then picking out a player that the players voted to be captain, as extremely poorly executed decisions. I have seen absolutely no evidence the Barton can truly manage. Please tell me what you see as his potential, I am genuinely interested in your views holmesgas1 . I enjoy reading your posts but I would like to know what you feel he brings to the club I fully agree with you that the fans deserve better with us showing unwavering support over many dark years, only punctuated by DCs magic 3 years. Like you I do not like the public criticism as similar to your experience have managed at a high level and having a motivated team makes a massive difference to their effectiveness and rarely does public humiliation help. However in saying that, why am I supporting JB. One is nothing to do with him, I just don't think we can keep swapping managers every 5 minutes; we need some consistency. JB can provide this, he has had relative success at Fleetwood, and from friends who have links there, believe he did a good job and was a good coach. He was good at bringing younger players in, but ensured the spine of the team was strong and experienced. He has good contacts, and a strong drive to win. Probably too strong at times. Also developed a good culture at the club and will not be afraid to get of rid of deadwood if they don't fit, which is something we definitely need. So yes risky, but this was not his team, thus I'm willing to give him the chance to see what he can build, and if he can deliver here. There is no guarantees, just I believe he has got a better chance than most, based upon the candidates we may currently attract. Lastly and I know this does not go down well with some. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on his past. Currently he has done nothing to harm our reputation other than be part of a relegation. If he can be successful it will be only be good for him and us from a PR perspective. Of course not a zero risk strategy, but maybe I'm just looking forward to the ride, which at the very least should be exciting. It's a point of view, and there are some points in there that it's difficult to disagree with, however; If the argument is that consistency is needed then this makes no sense as we have no idea what's going to happen with the upcoming court case. And following on from this, we had better have a plan for someone to do the job if the hearing does go ahead and if he is found guilty and given a custodial sentence. I think he has harmed our reputation as a club. Just check the comments on the BBC website the day our relegation was confirmed. There were a couple which appeared to be from s'heds and a small number from Rovers' supporters standing their ground and affirming their support for the club, but there were also a lot that were personal attacks aimed at Barton, and I promise, I didn't send any of those in.
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Post by CabbagePatchBlues on May 11, 2021 6:03:24 GMT
It wasn’t our mistake though. Most of us have shown unswerving support, over decades. I believe we deserve better. I don’t like Barton but I still want us to succeed, he has done nothing but moan and show utter contempt for the players. I’m no manager but have managed, in the workplace & I know the constant criticism and then picking out a player that the players voted to be captain, as extremely poorly executed decisions. I have seen absolutely no evidence the Barton can truly manage. Please tell me what you see as his potential, I am genuinely interested in your views holmesgas1 . I enjoy reading your posts but I would like to know what you feel he brings to the club I fully agree with you that the fans deserve better with us showing unwavering support over many dark years, only punctuated by DCs magic 3 years. Like you I do not like the public criticism as similar to your experience have managed at a high level and having a motivated team makes a massive difference to their effectiveness and rarely does public humiliation help. However in saying that, why am I supporting JB. One is nothing to do with him, I just don't think we can keep swapping managers every 5 minutes; we need some consistency. JB can provide this, he has had relative success at Fleetwood, and from friends who have links there, believe he did a good job and was a good coach. He was good at bringing younger players in, but ensured the spine of the team was strong and experienced. He has good contacts, and a strong drive to win. Probably too strong at times. Also developed a good culture at the club and will not be afraid to get of rid of deadwood if they don't fit, which is something we definitely need. So yes risky, but this was not his team, thus I'm willing to give him the chance to see what he can build, and if he can deliver here. There is no guarantees, just I believe he has got a better chance than most, based upon the candidates we may currently attract. Lastly and I know this does not go down well with some. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on his past. Currently he has done nothing to harm our reputation other than be part of a relegation. If he can be successful it will be only be good for him and us from a PR perspective. Of course not a zero risk strategy, but maybe I'm just looking forward to the ride, which at the very least should be exciting. If you find gut-punching and head-butting exciting then you're following the wrong sport.
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Peter Parker
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Post by Peter Parker on May 11, 2021 7:56:45 GMT
It wasn’t our mistake though. Most of us have shown unswerving support, over decades. I believe we deserve better. I don’t like Barton but I still want us to succeed, he has done nothing but moan and show utter contempt for the players. I’m no manager but have managed, in the workplace & I know the constant criticism and then picking out a player that the players voted to be captain, as extremely poorly executed decisions. I have seen absolutely no evidence the Barton can truly manage. Please tell me what you see as his potential, I am genuinely interested in your views holmesgas1. I enjoy reading your posts but I would like to know what you feel he brings to the club I fully agree with you that the fans deserve better with us showing unwavering support over many dark years, only punctuated by DCs magic 3 years. Like you I do not like the public criticism as similar to your experience have managed at a high level and having a motivated team makes a massive difference to their effectiveness and rarely does public humiliation help. However in saying that, why am I supporting JB. One is nothing to do with him, I just don't think we can keep swapping managers every 5 minutes; we need some consistency. JB can provide this, he has had relative success at Fleetwood, and from friends who have links there, believe he did a good job and was a good coach. He was good at bringing younger players in, but ensured the spine of the team was strong and experienced. He has good contacts, and a strong drive to win. Probably too strong at times. Also developed a good culture at the club and will not be afraid to get of rid of deadwood if they don't fit, which is something we definitely need. So yes risky, but this was not his team, thus I'm willing to give him the chance to see what he can build, and if he can deliver here. There is no guarantees, just I believe he has got a better chance than most, based upon the candidates we may currently attract. Lastly and I know this does not go down well with some. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on his past. Currently he has done nothing to harm our reputation other than be part of a relegation. If he can be successful it will be only be good for him and us from a PR perspective. Of course not a zero risk strategy, but maybe I'm just looking forward to the ride, which at the very least should be exciting. I doubt I will ever take to the bloke. If he gets us promoted, of course i will be happy and I would appreciate the job he did, but i find his character currently annoying, ignoring all his other misdemeanours If you take away any feeling and look at the appointment objectively we gave a 2 and a half year contract (irrespective of any break/severance clauses/payouts. After all the intention of any manager appointment is for them to remain in place) to a bloke with a criminal court case hanging over him and us. his his first task with all that in mind, was to keep us up and he failed whilst running his mouth about anything and everything, irrespective of if he speaks the truth. He played to the crowd, whilst washing his hands of it, talking of great resets and promoting his methods. He has bigged himself up, so now its time to deliver. If he is still here. Part of me wants him to get banged up and/or a lengthy FA ban as it will top the clusterf of a season off and prove what a s*** appointment it was to begin with in trying to keep us up, let alone the bloke tasked with rebuilding the club There are zero excuses now for Joey or the club whatever happens between now, June 7th and beyond
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