Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2021 20:51:06 GMT
Yes, I was a shareholder and director in the days when we won the League, we had the finances under control and we paid our bills on time. Again, I've given specific reasons why I think something is not right with the training ground development. Can you give the reasons why you think the way it is being done is the way a project of this type would normally be carried out ? I don't wish to Swiss. A couple of reasons: a) There is no need, as its clearly going to be a top class facility. That is obvious to everyone. b) Discussing it further will only prolong your continual negativity and bitterness (bordering on hatred it would seem) of the owners who are providing a better training facility than the club has ever had. It’s not obvious to me it’s going to be a top class facility. When I see the evidence Swiss was talking about then I will believe it. With regards to working hard, if I’d been working hard behind the scenes on a stadium project for 5 years I’d at least have expected to identify a site
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2021 21:49:14 GMT
I don't wish to Swiss. A couple of reasons: a) There is no need, as its clearly going to be a top class facility. That is obvious to everyone. b) Discussing it further will only prolong your continual negativity and bitterness (bordering on hatred it would seem) of the owners who are providing a better training facility than the club has ever had. It’s not obvious to me it’s going to be a top class facility. When I see the evidence Swiss was talking about then I will believe it. With regards to working hard, if I’d been working hard behind the scenes on a stadium project for 5 years I’d at least have expected to identify a site Some people aren't ever satisfied. Remember that Wael has the best experts, people who have built countless stadiums, if it wasn't for him putting all of this in place we may be 5 years down the road and still playing in something that looks like the film set for Carry On Camping.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,353
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Post by kingswood Polak on Mar 16, 2021 23:25:42 GMT
It’s not obvious to me it’s going to be a top class facility. When I see the evidence Swiss was talking about then I will believe it. With regards to working hard, if I’d been working hard behind the scenes on a stadium project for 5 years I’d at least have expected to identify a site Some people aren't ever satisfied. Remember that Wael has the best experts, people who have built countless stadiums, if it wasn't for him putting all of this in place we may be 5 years down the road and still playing in something that looks like the film set for Carry On Camping. 😂😂😂👍🏻
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Post by gasandproud on Mar 17, 2021 7:18:58 GMT
Some people aren't ever satisfied. Remember that Wael has the best experts, people who have built countless stadiums, if it wasn't for him putting all of this in place we may be 5 years down the road and still playing in something that looks like the film set for Carry On Camping. 😂😂😂👍🏻 Nobody is working hard behind the scenes on a stadium project... In the last 5 years we have had the UWE, the redevelopment of the Mem, The FM and my attempts yet still we haven't seen a sign of any real progress. 5 years down the line we still play at what can only be described as an embarrassment of a facility and our on field performance now matches our off field efforts. We have a training facility being built at a snails pace which some believe will be an amazing facility and others believe will be a 1990's style mish mash that every other club has moved on from 20 years ago....Only time will tell on that as to my knowledge we haven't been shown anything tangible to explain what we are actually getting! (I know where my money would be if you asked me to place a bet on what we end up with). My conclusion is that the only way we are going to move forward as a club is to do one of two things....1) The current owner sells the club to someone with the money and vision to move us on or 2) He somehow starts listening to those who have that vision and can put together a credible plan. Option one is unlikely as the club appears to be in a mess financially and there are other far more attractive options for investors / buyers to consider so that leaves option 2. Evidence suggests that isn't going to happen because in the last 5 years there has been plenty of opportunity to do that so unless there is a change in attitude by the owner that's probably off the table too. That leaves us in the position of the rudderless ship that we are with no apparent plan and simply drifting on and off the field until the owners funds run dry. Nobody knows at what point that could come so I guess it could be anything from tomorrow to 20 /30/40/50 years. The only clarity we have is that D-Day will come at some point. Until then we continue to drift...we may enjoy the odd success here and there but generally if you drift you are likely to see little real progress and you are at the mercy of all outside influences.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2021 8:41:30 GMT
Nobody is working hard behind the scenes on a stadium project... In the last 5 years we have had the UWE, the redevelopment of the Mem, The FM and my attempts yet still we haven't seen a sign of any real progress. 5 years down the line we still play at what can only be described as an embarrassment of a facility and our on field performance now matches our off field efforts. We have a training facility being built at a snails pace which some believe will be an amazing facility and others believe will be a 1990's style mish mash that every other club has moved on from 20 years ago....Only time will tell on that as to my knowledge we haven't been shown anything tangible to explain what we are actually getting! (I know where my money would be if you asked me to place a bet on what we end up with). My conclusion is that the only way we are going to move forward as a club is to do one of two things....1) The current owner sells the club to someone with the money and vision to move us on or 2) He somehow starts listening to those who have that vision and can put together a credible plan. Option one is unlikely as the club appears to be in a mess financially and there are other far more attractive options for investors / buyers to consider so that leaves option 2. Evidence suggests that isn't going to happen because in the last 5 years there has been plenty of opportunity to do that so unless there is a change in attitude by the owner that's probably off the table too. That leaves us in the position of the rudderless ship that we are with no apparent plan and simply drifting on and off the field until the owners funds run dry. Nobody knows at what point that could come so I guess it could be anything from tomorrow to 20 /30/40/50 years. The only clarity we have is that D-Day will come at some point. Until then we continue to drift...we may enjoy the odd success here and there but generally if you drift you are likely to see little real progress and you are at the mercy of all outside influences. I agree with all this. It seems that the club accrues debt at the hands of Wael, but we see nothing tangible delivered on or off the pitch. Then when Wael clears the debt or reiterates his commitment we’re all eternally grateful for his support, then we go again. It’s a cycle than can’t go on forever
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bondigas
Joined: December 2017
Posts: 393
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Post by bondigas on Mar 17, 2021 10:33:03 GMT
Year end accounts for 2020 must be due out any day and I would suspect show a loss of between £4.0 and £4.5 million. Year end for 2021 this June due to the pandemic and no income must be in the region of £5 million plus. Add the £18 million capitalisation along with the £2.5 million interest repayment and your north of £30 million debt. Then take into account the owners other separate investment, the training ground which although he draws down rent from the club for it's use, is still pushing the boundaries towards £4 million spent on development so far. The big question that should concern everyone is where is the funding coming from to underwrite these losses and day to day operational costs, inheritance can go someway possibly, but not the distance it has gone so far at the club under the present owner.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2021 11:00:38 GMT
Year end accounts for 2020 must be due out any day and I would suspect show a loss of between £4.0 and £4.5 million. Year end for 2021 this June due to the pandemic and no income must be in the region of £5 million plus. Add the £18 million capitalisation along with the £2.5 million interest repayment and your north of £30 million debt. Then take into account the owners other separate investment, the training ground which although he draws down rent from the club for it's use, is still pushing the boundaries towards £4 million spent on development so far. The big question that should concern everyone is where is the funding coming from to underwrite these losses and day to day operational costs, inheritance can go someway possibly, but not the distance it has gone so far at the club under the present owner. Swiss dissected Wael's takeover, it was closer to £12m than 18m. Looking at the playing squad we have, the wage bill must be through the floor, surely? We don't know what the loses for either of the above years may look like, I tend to agree for the 2020 accounts, but 2021, who knows? I thought that loans had been changed to share capital, so no interest, or did I get that wrong? Lastly, can't imagine that we are anywhere near £4m for that field with a hut, it may get there when it's completed, but would be amazed if it's even half of that at this stage. Do we have figures for the spend to date? But your overarching point is still correct, according to what's been said on here Wael appears to be spending more than anyone can find any record anywhere of him earning, and that's not sustainable.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2021 14:42:11 GMT
Year end accounts for 2020 must be due out any day and I would suspect show a loss of between £4.0 and £4.5 million. Year end for 2021 this June due to the pandemic and no income must be in the region of £5 million plus. Add the £18 million capitalisation along with the £2.5 million interest repayment and your north of £30 million debt. Then take into account the owners other separate investment, the training ground which although he draws down rent from the club for it's use, is still pushing the boundaries towards £4 million spent on development so far. The big question that should concern everyone is where is the funding coming from to underwrite these losses and day to day operational costs, inheritance can go someway possibly, but not the distance it has gone so far at the club under the present owner. The majority of supporters don't care so don't fret about it. Just sit back and enjoy the ride.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2021 15:18:38 GMT
Year end accounts for 2020 must be due out any day and I would suspect show a loss of between £4.0 and £4.5 million. Year end for 2021 this June due to the pandemic and no income must be in the region of £5 million plus. Add the £18 million capitalisation along with the £2.5 million interest repayment and your north of £30 million debt. Then take into account the owners other separate investment, the training ground which although he draws down rent from the club for it's use, is still pushing the boundaries towards £4 million spent on development so far. The big question that should concern everyone is where is the funding coming from to underwrite these losses and day to day operational costs, inheritance can go someway possibly, but not the distance it has gone so far at the club under the present owner. The majority of supporters don't care so don't fret about it. Just sit back and enjoy the ride. Problem is, it gets harder and harder to relax once you've noticed that the track runs out up ahead...
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Mar 17, 2021 15:23:16 GMT
Year end accounts for 2020 must be due out any day and I would suspect show a loss of between £4.0 and £4.5 million. Year end for 2021 this June due to the pandemic and no income must be in the region of £5 million plus. Add the £18 million capitalisation along with the £2.5 million interest repayment and your north of £30 million debt. Then take into account the owners other separate investment, the training ground which although he draws down rent from the club for it's use, is still pushing the boundaries towards £4 million spent on development so far. The big question that should concern everyone is where is the funding coming from to underwrite these losses and day to day operational costs, inheritance can go someway possibly, but not the distance it has gone so far at the club under the present owner. The majority of supporters don't care so don't fret about it. Just sit back and enjoy the ride. if he’s burning through his inheritance playing at football owner, what sort of person is going to say they don’t care without first saying, it’s not being added as debt to club in some way on us after he is gone, or needing to be paid by a buyer? Who wouldn’t care about that. Secondly, you want your own club to be good at VFM. We beat Accrington the other week (and as KP remarked, nearly won the tie on away goals) but look where they are, where we are, and then compare the two spends. How much better can it be if you are not wasting money? and then what do gas heads want? Promotion to the Championship? League 1 survival? now if the answer is it’s not much of Waels money wrapped in a wad and set fire too, fires creating future debt on rovers if a buyer doesn’t pay it, and the answer is not value for money but culture of waste, that promotion party for promotion could prove destruction for this club. How dum in the long run any fan not thinking this through, not caring about anything but the next result?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2021 15:28:28 GMT
The majority of supporters don't care so don't fret about it. Just sit back and enjoy the ride. if he’s burning through his inheritance playing at football owner, what sort of person is going to say they don’t care without first saying, it’s not being added as debt to club in some way on us after he is gone, or needing to be paid by a buyer? Who wouldn’t care about that. Secondly, you want your own club to be good at VFM. We beat Accrington the other week (and as KP remarked, nearly won the tie on away goals) but look where they are, where we are, and then compare the two spends. How much better can it be if you are not wasting money? and then what do gas heads want? Promotion to the Championship? League 1 survival? now if the answer is it’s not much of Waels money wrapped in a wad and set fire too, fires creating future debt on rovers if a buyer doesn’t pay it, and the answer is not value for money but culture of waste, that promotion party for promotion could prove destruction for this club. How dum in the long run any fan not thinking this through, not caring about anything but the next result? It's incredible isn't it, EP says that Wael has wiped out debt, and otherwise intelligent people just accept it as fact. No he flipping well hasn't, it's exactly as you point out, every penny lost will need to be accounted for one day. But not to worry, it's you, me and a tiny number of others who have this wrong and who 'aren't real supporters', because we are actually seriously worried that Wael is sending the club full speed into financial disaster.
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Post by swissgas on Mar 17, 2021 15:36:20 GMT
Year end accounts for 2020 must be due out any day and I would suspect show a loss of between £4.0 and £4.5 million. Year end for 2021 this June due to the pandemic and no income must be in the region of £5 million plus. Add the £18 million capitalisation along with the £2.5 million interest repayment and your north of £30 million debt. Then take into account the owners other separate investment, the training ground which although he draws down rent from the club for it's use, is still pushing the boundaries towards £4 million spent on development so far. The big question that should concern everyone is where is the funding coming from to underwrite these losses and day to day operational costs, inheritance can go someway possibly, but not the distance it has gone so far at the club under the present owner. Anything paid to Wael's company would only be a very small amount of ground rent for the site surely ? Rovers have been invoiced for all the work done at the training ground and our employees maintain the facility so the club wouldn't be charged rent as well would it ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2021 15:39:54 GMT
if he’s burning through his inheritance playing at football owner, what sort of person is going to say they don’t care without first saying, it’s not being added as debt to club in some way on us after he is gone, or needing to be paid by a buyer? Who wouldn’t care about that. Secondly, you want your own club to be good at VFM. We beat Accrington the other week (and as KP remarked, nearly won the tie on away goals) but look where they are, where we are, and then compare the two spends. How much better can it be if you are not wasting money? and then what do gas heads want? Promotion to the Championship? League 1 survival? now if the answer is it’s not much of Waels money wrapped in a wad and set fire too, fires creating future debt on rovers if a buyer doesn’t pay it, and the answer is not value for money but culture of waste, that promotion party for promotion could prove destruction for this club. How dum in the long run any fan not thinking this through, not caring about anything but the next result? It's incredible isn't it, EP says that Wael has wiped out debt, and otherwise intelligent people just accept it as fact. No he flipping well hasn't, it's exactly as you point out, every penny lost will need to be accounted for one day. But not to worry, it's you, me and a tiny number of others who have this wrong and who 'aren't real supporters', because we are actually seriously worried that Wael is sending the club full speed into financial disaster. Have you ever considered Wael might be a genuine Gashead? To the point where if the money runs out, he will hand the club over to an interested party for free? For the good of the club, like.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2021 15:42:04 GMT
if he’s burning through his inheritance playing at football owner, what sort of person is going to say they don’t care without first saying, it’s not being added as debt to club in some way on us after he is gone, or needing to be paid by a buyer? Who wouldn’t care about that. Secondly, you want your own club to be good at VFM. We beat Accrington the other week (and as KP remarked, nearly won the tie on away goals) but look where they are, where we are, and then compare the two spends. How much better can it be if you are not wasting money? and then what do gas heads want? Promotion to the Championship? League 1 survival? now if the answer is it’s not much of Waels money wrapped in a wad and set fire too, fires creating future debt on rovers if a buyer doesn’t pay it, and the answer is not value for money but culture of waste, that promotion party for promotion could prove destruction for this club. How dum in the long run any fan not thinking this through, not caring about anything but the next result? It's incredible isn't it, EP says that Wael has wiped out debt, and otherwise intelligent people just accept it as fact. No he flipping well hasn't, it's exactly as you point out, every penny lost will need to be accounted for one day. But not to worry, it's you, me and a tiny number of others who have this wrong and who 'aren't real supporters', because we are actually seriously worried that Wael is sending the club full speed into financial disaster. Swissgas got banned from the other forum for trying to point out the road that the club is on financially. This forum is more tolerant of that opinion and many want to understand it but the sad truth is, the majority do not care as long as the first team is kicking a ball. Few question that we lose on the pitch to teams with much smaller resources whilst losing £4m per year as long as somebody funds the losses. We are where we are because we have always accepted it so don't expect any sustained improvement any time soon.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2021 15:44:00 GMT
It's incredible isn't it, EP says that Wael has wiped out debt, and otherwise intelligent people just accept it as fact. No he flipping well hasn't, it's exactly as you point out, every penny lost will need to be accounted for one day. But not to worry, it's you, me and a tiny number of others who have this wrong and who 'aren't real supporters', because we are actually seriously worried that Wael is sending the club full speed into financial disaster. Have you ever considered Wael might be a genuine Gashead? To the point where if the money runs out, he will hand the club over to an interested party for free? For the good of the club, like. giphy
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2021 15:56:37 GMT
Up the f******g Gas
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2021 16:01:40 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2021 16:17:51 GMT
It's incredible isn't it, EP says that Wael has wiped out debt, and otherwise intelligent people just accept it as fact. No he flipping well hasn't, it's exactly as you point out, every penny lost will need to be accounted for one day. But not to worry, it's you, me and a tiny number of others who have this wrong and who 'aren't real supporters', because we are actually seriously worried that Wael is sending the club full speed into financial disaster. Swissgas got banned from the other forum for trying to point out the road that the club is on financially. This forum is more tolerant of that opinion and many want to understand it but the sad truth is, the majority do not care as long as the first team is kicking a ball. Few question that we lose on the pitch to teams with much smaller resources whilst losing £4m per year as long as somebody funds the losses. We are where we are because we have always accepted it so don't expect any sustained improvement any time soon. Ignorance is bliss. To be fair though, everyone was (rightly) concerned with Higgs running up the debt. It seems just because Wael is worth a few quid more losses of 4 million a year are considered a triviality that no-one needs to worry about. Just my personal suspicion but I don’t think those sort of sums are chump change to Wael in the same way that they are to Lansdown.
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Post by swissgas on Mar 17, 2021 16:58:18 GMT
It's incredible isn't it, EP says that Wael has wiped out debt, and otherwise intelligent people just accept it as fact. No he flipping well hasn't, it's exactly as you point out, every penny lost will need to be accounted for one day. But not to worry, it's you, me and a tiny number of others who have this wrong and who 'aren't real supporters', because we are actually seriously worried that Wael is sending the club full speed into financial disaster. Have you ever considered Wael might be a genuine Gashead? To the point where if the money runs out, he will hand the club over to an interested party for free? For the good of the club, like. Without conditions concerning where we play and train and about one of our grandees remaining on board ?
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Mar 17, 2021 17:07:10 GMT
Have you ever considered Wael might be a genuine Gashead? To the point where if the money runs out, he will hand the club over to an interested party for free? For the good of the club, like. let’s be scientific about it. He doesn’t communicate with fellow gasheads enough to be a true gashead.
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