Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2021 22:20:48 GMT
This thread becomes more and more worrying as time goes by. As I said previously I don’t feel as strongly as others do either way on Barton but the more people delve the more worrying the situation appears to be. The more I read the more detached I become and the less I care what happens.... I was a guaranteed season ticket holder, investing decent amounts of money in merchandise, sponsorship etc.... going to matches with my father, my 14 year old son and encouraging anyone I could to engage with the club and encouraging as many people as I could to be a gas head. Bristol Rovers were a huge part of my life..... I drew a line under my attempts to get the club engaged in a stadium plan despite my disappointment in how that ended. I’m now sat here the evening before a massive game affecting the clubs immediate future and I have never felt more detached or disillusioned (and I include when we went non league). I actually no longer care. If anyone at the club bothers to read these threads, I urge you to consider carefully what you are reading here and think carefully about what you are creating at Bristol Rovers. I’m just a number, someone who makes no difference to Bristol Rovers in the grand scheme of things.... but.... if my mood is even remotely similar to how others feel then the club really need to consider seriously how they continue to operate. Bristol Rovers could and should have been a massive positive to people like me during the wider situation society finds itself in. To me (and I know it’s only my opinion) they have managed to alienate and disappoint me more than I ever thought they could. It’s fine, “the yoof” all messaged Wael on social media saying they wanted Barton. Which makes sense because I gather that those complaining are those >40 who still have some vestige of a regard for pre social media society where shame was considered an unfortunately necessary thing to keep the balance of good and evil in check. To pick up on Swiss’s point, as I’ve said before we are living in a post shame society. You can’t shame so many things these days, weight, mental health etc some of which is obviously for the better, but in the grand scheme of things this “no shame” mantra is manifesting itself in acceptance of immoral behaviour that in years gone by would not have been so easily forgivable. We see it with our Prime Minister. He would have been waaay to controversial to elect a couple of decades ago yet now in our post shame society his past comments and behaviour are water of a duck’s back. If someone tries to hold you to account, ignore them and brazen it out. If shame does not bother you then what are they going to do about it? We’re seeing this with Barton imo. Just shrug off the controversy, pretend it isn’t there and if you can, revel in the notoriety just to hammer it home. The yoof lap it up because they’ve never known a time when the likes of Pipe got the sack regardless of innocent until proven guilty. Barton knows all this himself- he admits “I’ve been lucky”. Damn right he has, somebody tell me one way in which his career has gone backwards through his deeds? He wants a premiership club to play for, he gets one. He wants a club to manage, he gets one. Where in all of that has he had to learn that his decision making has adversely affected his career prospects like it would for those of us in the real world outside the football bubble? Genuine question. To me, he’s never had to.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2021 22:27:20 GMT
This thread becomes more and more worrying as time goes by. As I said previously I don’t feel as strongly as others do either way on Barton but the more people delve the more worrying the situation appears to be. The more I read the more detached I become and the less I care what happens.... I was a guaranteed season ticket holder, investing decent amounts of money in merchandise, sponsorship etc.... going to matches with my father, my 14 year old son and encouraging anyone I could to engage with the club and encouraging as many people as I could to be a gas head. Bristol Rovers were a huge part of my life..... I drew a line under my attempts to get the club engaged in a stadium plan despite my disappointment in how that ended. I’m now sat here the evening before a massive game affecting the clubs immediate future and I have never felt more detached or disillusioned (and I include when we went non league). I actually no longer care. If anyone at the club bothers to read these threads, I urge you to consider carefully what you are reading here and think carefully about what you are creating at Bristol Rovers. I’m just a number, someone who makes no difference to Bristol Rovers in the grand scheme of things.... but.... if my mood is even remotely similar to how others feel then the club really need to consider seriously how they continue to operate. Bristol Rovers could and should have been a massive positive to people like me during the wider situation society finds itself in. To me (and I know it’s only my opinion) they have managed to alienate and disappoint me more than I ever thought they could. Sorry if I've contributed to your worry but I've had my eyes opened today. Like you my negative feelings about Barton as an individual were not as strong as others and my main concern was that the appointment of him and his entourage showed the turmoil within the club was even greater than previously thought. We were increasing overheads once again and conflict between the new people and the existing management was an inevitability. But today we've discovered the new team consists of four people not three so now, in addition to a multitude of coaches, we have three managers and two directors of football on the payroll. It's absolute madness financially but, distressingly,when you look into the background of the new people, you can see that Wael has got Rovers into bed with a group of characters ( and we don't know how many others there are who remain hidden) which will have no hesitation in tearing the club apart if things don't go their way. The Fleetwood Town accounts and accompanying narrative paint a picture of what went on there after Barton was appointed and it should make chilling reading for our owner. Their wage bill was 7 million in 2019 (Rovers was 5.6 million in 2018) and the owner specifically mentioned how Barton had "brought on board various players with experience of playing in higher leagues". With "football agent" Eddy Jennings as the DOF guiding the manager we can easily imagine what this meant and how disappointing the play off defeat to Wycombe must have been. When Barton was dismissed in January we heard of a "transfer embargo" which the owner had imposed and how this caused friction between him and the manager. Let's be honest about this, a self imposed transfer embargo is code for "I'm not letting you and your mates waste any more of my money". We can't be exactly certain of what the four lads in the house share are cooking up but what we can be sure of is that Wael doesn't have a clue what he has let himself in for. I’m not sure I buy into all the doom and gloom there but the Fleetwood wage bill is certainly mud in the eye for the likes of pirate on Gaschat who would have you believe that Barton was managing on a shoestring at Fleetwood. Never mind the money, Fleetwood were on a run of 1 win in 9 when Barton left. How many managers survive a run like that? And yet we are lead to believe that Barton left of his own accord. Yeah, sure thing mate. Nice one.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2021 22:55:00 GMT
Sorry if I've contributed to your worry but I've had my eyes opened today. Like you my negative feelings about Barton as an individual were not as strong as others and my main concern was that the appointment of him and his entourage showed the turmoil within the club was even greater than previously thought. We were increasing overheads once again and conflict between the new people and the existing management was an inevitability. But today we've discovered the new team consists of four people not three so now, in addition to a multitude of coaches, we have three managers and two directors of football on the payroll. It's absolute madness financially but, distressingly,when you look into the background of the new people, you can see that Wael has got Rovers into bed with a group of characters ( and we don't know how many others there are who remain hidden) which will have no hesitation in tearing the club apart if things don't go their way. The Fleetwood Town accounts and accompanying narrative paint a picture of what went on there after Barton was appointed and it should make chilling reading for our owner. Their wage bill was 7 million in 2019 (Rovers was 5.6 million in 2018) and the owner specifically mentioned how Barton had "brought on board various players with experience of playing in higher leagues". With "football agent" Eddy Jennings as the DOF guiding the manager we can easily imagine what this meant and how disappointing the play off defeat to Wycombe must have been. When Barton was dismissed in January we heard of a "transfer embargo" which the owner had imposed and how this caused friction between him and the manager. Let's be honest about this, a self imposed transfer embargo is code for "I'm not letting you and your mates waste any more of my money". We can't be exactly certain of what the four lads in the house share are cooking up but what we can be sure of is that Wael doesn't have a clue what he has let himself in for. I’m not sure I buy into all the doom and gloom there but the Fleetwood wage bill is certainly mud in the eye for the likes of pirate on Gaschat who would have you believe that Barton was managing on a shoestring at Fleetwood. Never mind the money, Fleetwood were on a run of 1 win in 9 when Barton left. How many managers survive a run like that? And yet we are lead to believe that Barton left of his own accord. Yeah, sure thing mate. Nice one. The propaganda mill likes to continuously propagate what Barton achieved in front of a small crowd at Fleetwood, the implication being they were like the Accrington of that year. It’s garbage, with the budget he was given top 6 was a minimum requirement. It doesn’t matter what Pirate says on Gaschat, on the old forum he used to stalk celebrities online and post all sorts of weird sh*t. How can we have Eddy Jennings at the club and retain Tommy W? Even if Eddy is just helping out his buddy, that surely means Tommy is no use to Barton. My concern is that the gullible Wael now has two factions of parasites bleeding his cash. The old guard who got us into this mess and now a new group who are making big promises but at a price. Or maybe this strange mix of violent criminals, gamblers and character witnesses for murderers just want the best for BRFC
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Post by gasandproud on Mar 12, 2021 23:03:31 GMT
I’m not sure I buy into all the doom and gloom there but the Fleetwood wage bill is certainly mud in the eye for the likes of pirate on Gaschat who would have you believe that Barton was managing on a shoestring at Fleetwood. Never mind the money, Fleetwood were on a run of 1 win in 9 when Barton left. How many managers survive a run like that? And yet we are lead to believe that Barton left of his own accord. Yeah, sure thing mate. Nice one. The propaganda mill likes to continuously propagate what Barton achieved in front of a small crowd at Fleetwood, the implication being they were like the Accrington of that year. It’s garbage, with the budget he was given top 6 was a minimum requirement. It doesn’t matter what Pirate says on Gaschat, on the old forum he used to stalk celebrities online and post all sorts of weird sh*t. How can we have Eddy Jennings at the club and retain Tommy W? Even if Eddy is just helping out his buddy, that surely means Tommy is no use to Barton. My concern is that the gullible Wael now has two factions of parasites bleeding his cash. The old guard who got us into this mess and now a new group who are making big promises but at a price. Or maybe this strange mix of violent criminals, gamblers and character witnesses for murderers just want the best for BRFC The best analogy I can come up with is that up until this evening I have seen wael captaining a boat with a board of limpets all attached to the bottom of the boat, sucking an income from the captain. It sounds like that boat has just headed into deep, shark infested waters. We will either need a bigger boat or the boat and it’s crew will be sunk. Very, very worrying times.
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bondigas
Joined: December 2017
Posts: 393
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Post by bondigas on Mar 12, 2021 23:28:28 GMT
There is no question that even the rose tinted posters on both forums who are under the owners spell and post on his behalf must recognise that he is a man that is easily led and like former Prime Ministers Blair and Cameron has one objective, to be nothing more than a populist leader in his case, in front of the Rovers fan base. The very fact that Barton's mate Eddy Jennings is now, it appears, if not employed yet, shadowing player recruitment at the club and sharing a flat with Barton and Hill somewhere in Bristol, where does that leave Widdrington, he's DOF and a main board director, he should be kicking up a hell of a stink about these introductions ? All of these scousers now working or involved as yet with the club come from Huyton, a Liverpool neighbourhood that makes Hartcliffe look like Swanage on a Sunday. They must have been approved by the owner, forget the board, the club is now an individual's authoritarian toy, the big question to be asked, who is paying for all of this and where is the money coming from, the owner certainly on the dividend evidence he receives from his shareholding at AJIB can't support the expenditure. The little boy who put his finger in the dike could well find the water is now over lapping the top of the dike, where do Rovers go from there if the land is flooded.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2021 2:28:59 GMT
There is no question that even the rose tinted posters on both forums who are under the owners spell and post on his behalf must recognise that he is a man that is easily led and like former Prime Ministers Blair and Cameron has one objective, to be nothing more than a populist leader in his case, in front of the Rovers fan base. The very fact that Barton's mate Eddy Jennings is now, it appears, if not employed yet, shadowing player recruitment at the club and sharing a flat with Barton and Hill somewhere in Bristol, where does that leave Widdrington, he's DOF and a main board director, he should be kicking up a hell of a stink about these introductions ? All of these scousers now working or involved as yet with the club come from Huyton, a Liverpool neighbourhood that makes Hartcliffe look like Swanage on a Sunday. They must have been approved by the owner, forget the board, the club is now an individual's authoritarian toy, the big question to be asked, who is paying for all of this and where is the money coming from, the owner certainly on the dividend evidence he receives from his shareholding at AJIB can't support the expenditure. The little boy who put his finger in the dike could well find the water is now over lapping the top of the dike, where do Rovers go from there if the land is flooded. I used to be in the school of thought that Wael was in it for the best and I was frustrated by posts by gasincider, severnscider, swiss etc. that seemed needlessly inflammatory. Then I began to realise these guys had a point but believed Wael would deliver and had just surrounded himself with the wrong people. Now we seem to be accruing further debt employing two assistant managers, two god awful directors of football etc etc. This is looking more and more like a vanity project for an owner who has inherited a bagful of cash, has been surrounded by vultures and does not know which one to hand the money over to first. I believed him when he said people were working hard behind the scenes to deliver a stadium. It’s been 5 years - where are even the f&&king drawings? I trusted DC. I trusted GC. I trust Paul Tisdale. There was a common message. I do not trust barton, widdrington, Jennings, Starnes etc. one bit. It’s like they are rogue traders happily ripping off a daft old fool with more money than sense. And if I’m being harsh - where is the plan? Where are the drawings? Where is the org structure for gods sake that has more Assistant managers than strikers? And why can the club not be run sustainably when Exeter city could with a far lower turnover?
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Mar 13, 2021 11:28:25 GMT
Respect? Haha! Has to be earned, doesn't it? I pay my way into the club with various forms of contribution, so don't need to prove level of respect to anyone. As for your question.... it's innocent until proven guilty. If the charge was serious enough, remand would be applied. Like I've said before, the club have a history of employing/associating staff with convictions, spent or otherwise. Also..... there's been not one supplier or sponsorship pulling out in protest. Not one corporate cancelling in protest (you can guarantee media coverage would be all over it)....all we have are a few individuals, probably a small percentage of the fanbase exercising their democratic right to cease funding as of this moment. Here's a question I wonder whether you'll address.....is it morally right to accept funds from a fan or supporter with exactly the same as JAB convictions?P Supporters who receive a football related conviction receive a life ban at Bristol Rovers, or at least they did. I'm not going to dwell on the point because the thread is a living organism and has shifted a different way.. The club does accept funds from known convicted criminals. Once a ban, sometimes not life, has been lifted folk are free to attend. But all the way through, it doesn't stop anyone purchasing merchandise etc... I understand receiving funds is not the same as employment, but I think there's something quirky in scenario of a known criminal being paid and a small percentage of that has been funded by criminals! The club associates with convicts.... it's just a matter of where you draw the line....but all the way through this, a vast majority of everyone wants the club to do well and prosper, whatever their dealings with the law. We're all GasHeads..
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2021 12:16:24 GMT
There is no question that even the rose tinted posters on both forums who are under the owners spell and post on his behalf must recognise that he is a man that is easily led and like former Prime Ministers Blair and Cameron has one objective, to be nothing more than a populist leader in his case, in front of the Rovers fan base. The very fact that Barton's mate Eddy Jennings is now, it appears, if not employed yet, shadowing player recruitment at the club and sharing a flat with Barton and Hill somewhere in Bristol, where does that leave Widdrington, he's DOF and a main board director, he should be kicking up a hell of a stink about these introductions ? All of these scousers now working or involved as yet with the club come from Huyton, a Liverpool neighbourhood that makes Hartcliffe look like Swanage on a Sunday. They must have been approved by the owner, forget the board, the club is now an individual's authoritarian toy, the big question to be asked, who is paying for all of this and where is the money coming from, the owner certainly on the dividend evidence he receives from his shareholding at AJIB can't support the expenditure. The little boy who put his finger in the dike could well find the water is now over lapping the top of the dike, where do Rovers go from there if the land is flooded. I used to be in the school of thought that Wael was in it for the best and I was frustrated by posts by gasincider, severnscider, swiss etc. that seemed needlessly inflammatory. Then I began to realise these guys had a point but believed Wael would deliver and had just surrounded himself with the wrong people. Now we seem to be accruing further debt employing two assistant managers, two god awful directors of football etc etc. This is looking more and more like a vanity project for an owner who has inherited a bagful of cash, has been surrounded by vultures and does not know which one to hand the money over to first. I believed him when he said people were working hard behind the scenes to deliver a stadium. It’s been 5 years - where are even the f&&king drawings? I trusted DC. I trusted GC. I trust Paul Tisdale. There was a common message. I do not trust barton, widdrington, Jennings, Starnes etc. one bit. It’s like they are rogue traders happily ripping off a daft old fool with more money than sense. And if I’m being harsh - where is the plan? Where are the drawings? Where is the org structure for gods sake that has more Assistant managers than strikers? And why can the club not be run sustainably when Exeter city could with a far lower turnover? Never been a fan of Wael since the collapse of the UWE but I always thought he meant well and to some extent I still do. Converting the debt to shares showed he is here for some sort of long haul and he has funded the club through covid etc. I’ve even been impressed with the ruthlessness with which he fires under performing managers. The big BUT is to ask why those managers ended up at the club in the first place? Wael is ultimately and unfortunately in sole charge and so there is very little safety valve if he decides to go rogue by appointing someone like Barton. The problem with Wael is that he doesn’t come across like an astute club owner. He’s surrounded himself with people who were not professionally sourced and seems to be, worst of all, obsessed with fame and novelty. He’s a trust fund kid who has been given inheritance money to buy a plaything with no obvious previous experience of such a role and hasn’t headhunted quality people to help him run it.. The fact he has an Instagram account where he posts pics of him with famous celebrities and footballers and pictures of his trainers explains a lot about how we have ended up with Barton as manager. Sorry, but for me he comes across like a bit of a man child, it’s good short term for Rovers, no doubt, as he bank rolls the club but for me one day Wael’s naivety and gullibility in how to run a football club is going to bite him and the club on the ass. He is potentially dangerous.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2021 12:28:23 GMT
Supporters who receive a football related conviction receive a life ban at Bristol Rovers, or at least they did. I'm not going to dwell on the point because the thread is a living organism and has shifted a different way.. The club does accept funds from known convicted criminals. Once a ban, sometimes not life, has been lifted folk are free to attend. But all the way through, it doesn't stop anyone purchasing merchandise etc... I understand receiving funds is not the same as employment, but I think there's something quirky in scenario of a known criminal being paid and a small percentage of that has been funded by criminals! The club associates with convicts.... it's just a matter of where you draw the line....but all the way through this, a vast majority of everyone wants the club to do well and prosper, whatever their dealings with the law. We're all GasHeads.. Sorry, got a lot of time for your posts and perspective on the Barton debate but for me it’s totally over reaching to compare employing a criminal with taking money from criminals! You can’t ban criminals from an economy, nor should you. We all, I’’m sure, agree that criminals should be allowed to re-integrate into society and that there is a place for Barton in it. It’s just a totally different debate whether a criminal who is on his 3,547th chance should be allowed to hold such a prominent position that involves him doing media work and representing a football club that has a family stand and is involved in community initiatives where there is no place for impromptu tooth extractions.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2021 12:31:13 GMT
I used to be in the school of thought that Wael was in it for the best and I was frustrated by posts by gasincider, severnscider, swiss etc. that seemed needlessly inflammatory. Then I began to realise these guys had a point but believed Wael would deliver and had just surrounded himself with the wrong people. Now we seem to be accruing further debt employing two assistant managers, two god awful directors of football etc etc. This is looking more and more like a vanity project for an owner who has inherited a bagful of cash, has been surrounded by vultures and does not know which one to hand the money over to first. I believed him when he said people were working hard behind the scenes to deliver a stadium. It’s been 5 years - where are even the f&&king drawings? I trusted DC. I trusted GC. I trust Paul Tisdale. There was a common message. I do not trust barton, widdrington, Jennings, Starnes etc. one bit. It’s like they are rogue traders happily ripping off a daft old fool with more money than sense. And if I’m being harsh - where is the plan? Where are the drawings? Where is the org structure for gods sake that has more Assistant managers than strikers? And why can the club not be run sustainably when Exeter city could with a far lower turnover? Never been a fan of Wael since the collapse of the UWE but I always thought he meant well and to some extent I still do. Converting the debt to shares showed he is here for some sort of long haul and he has funded the club through covid etc. I’ve even been impressed with the ruthlessness with which he fires under performing managers. The big BUT is to ask why those managers ended up at the club in the first place? Wael is ultimately and unfortunately in sole charge and so there is very little safety valve if he decides to go rogue by appointing someone like Barton. The problem with Wael is that he doesn’t come across like an astute club owner. He’s surrounded himself with people who were not professionally sourced and seems to be, worst of all, obsessed with fame and novelty. He’s a trust fund kid who has been given inheritance money to buy a plaything with no obvious previous experience of such a role and hasn’t headhunted quality people to help him run it.. The fact he has an Instagram account where he posts pics of him with famous celebrities and footballers and pictures of his trainers explains a lot about how we have ended up with Barton as manager. Sorry, but for me he comes across like a bit of a man child, it’s good short term for Rovers, no doubt, as he bank rolls the club but for me one day Wael’s naivety and gullibility in how to run a football club is going to bite him and the club on the ass. He is potentially dangerous. Yes he's providing funds, but never forget, he holds a charge over the stadium. As of this moment in time he's exposed himself to zero risk. Anybody who has spent £300 on a season ticket has paid more for their 'Rovers fix' than Wael has so far. Now, if I've misunderstood this and he has personally lost money as of today's date then if somebody could correct me and demonstrate why I'm wrong, I'll happily withdraw what's written above and apologise to him.
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Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Mar 13, 2021 12:31:50 GMT
Whatever, atm he is innocent until proven otherwise. His footballing credentials are the only thing we should be worried about. I understand the JB is a marmite character both on and off the field, but so was Norman "bites yer legs" hunter (i wonder why he got that rep), Vinne Jones (ask Gazza's balls how they feel about him) as well as our very own Jock Alexander who is more remembered for putting players into row z rather than footballs. These players as well as a few other hard nuts have earned their place as legend for not being crossed either on the field or off. Why is JB any different? Personally we just need to get behind JB for now and worry about the rest later. 2 3 things in reply to that. You decide what worries you, and others will do the same. Could you list Ian Alexander's criminal convictions related to assault please? If you can't then it's not quite a like-for-like comparison. Vinnie Jones is a silly little Man. Find the footage of him having a go at Gladiators and see what happens when he comes up against proper big guys. Sadly there was one (after his time at the club)
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2021 12:33:28 GMT
I'm not going to dwell on the point because the thread is a living organism and has shifted a different way.. The club does accept funds from known convicted criminals. Once a ban, sometimes not life, has been lifted folk are free to attend. But all the way through, it doesn't stop anyone purchasing merchandise etc... I understand receiving funds is not the same as employment, but I think there's something quirky in scenario of a known criminal being paid and a small percentage of that has been funded by criminals! The club associates with convicts.... it's just a matter of where you draw the line....but all the way through this, a vast majority of everyone wants the club to do well and prosper, whatever their dealings with the law. We're all GasHeads.. Sorry, got a lot of time for your posts and perspective on the Barton debate but for me it’s totally over reaching to compare employing a criminal with taking money from criminals! You can’t ban criminals from an economy, nor should you. We all, I’’m sure, agree that criminals should be allowed to re-integrate into society and that there is a place for Barton in it. It’s just a totally different debate whether a criminal who is on his 3,547th chance should be allowed to hold such a prominent position that involves him doing media work and representing a football club that has a family stand and is involved in community initiatives where there is no place for impromptu tooth extractions. It's OK wm, this is part of the process. Some of those supporting Barton's appointment are struggling a bit and are in the 'negotiating' stage. Hopefully 'acceptance' that the appointment was a very poor decision will come soon.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2021 12:37:49 GMT
2 3 things in reply to that. You decide what worries you, and others will do the same. Could you list Ian Alexander's criminal convictions related to assault please? If you can't then it's not quite a like-for-like comparison. Vinnie Jones is a silly little Man. Find the footage of him having a go at Gladiators and see what happens when he comes up against proper big guys. Sadly there was one (after his time at the club) I looked but couldn't find anything on the internet, but for the avoidance of any doubt, if that's true then naturally I condemn what happened in the strongest possible terms. I'm in no way attempting to excuse or 'talk down' the severity of any assault, especially against a female, not interested in Women's rights or equality in this instance, there's no excuse whatsoever for assaulting anybody, even less so if your victim is female, but it would appear from what's said here that it was an isolated incident, so hopefully he learned from it.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Mar 13, 2021 12:48:11 GMT
I'm not going to dwell on the point because the thread is a living organism and has shifted a different way.. The club does accept funds from known convicted criminals. Once a ban, sometimes not life, has been lifted folk are free to attend. But all the way through, it doesn't stop anyone purchasing merchandise etc... I understand receiving funds is not the same as employment, but I think there's something quirky in scenario of a known criminal being paid and a small percentage of that has been funded by criminals! The club associates with convicts.... it's just a matter of where you draw the line....but all the way through this, a vast majority of everyone wants the club to do well and prosper, whatever their dealings with the law. We're all GasHeads.. Sorry, got a lot of time for your posts and perspective on the Barton debate but for me it’s totally over reaching to compare employing a criminal with taking money from criminals! You can’t ban criminals from an economy, nor should you. We all, I’’m sure, agree that criminals should be allowed to re-integrate into society and that there is a place for Barton in it. It’s just a totally different debate whether a criminal who is on his 3,547th chance should be allowed to hold such a prominent position that involves him doing media work and representing a football club that has a family stand and is involved in community initiatives where there is no place for impromptu tooth extractions. I was using an exaggeration to make a point.....and if it's 3,547th chance you've used the same principle! It appears we can employ/associate with criminals as long as they don't hold certain positions within the club, no matter how talented or good at their job they are, or their ability to be the best candidate. JAB has served his sentences, done his time and deserves the opportunity to prove or disprove his worth fairly. I see it as a form of discrimination, otherwise. With polarisation in views, from a neutral pov is starting to look like is some are actually frightened he might actually be able do a good job?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2021 13:00:53 GMT
Sorry, got a lot of time for your posts and perspective on the Barton debate but for me it’s totally over reaching to compare employing a criminal with taking money from criminals! You can’t ban criminals from an economy, nor should you. We all, I’’m sure, agree that criminals should be allowed to re-integrate into society and that there is a place for Barton in it. It’s just a totally different debate whether a criminal who is on his 3,547th chance should be allowed to hold such a prominent position that involves him doing media work and representing a football club that has a family stand and is involved in community initiatives where there is no place for impromptu tooth extractions. I was using an exaggeration to make a point.....and if it's 3,547th chance you've used the same principle! It appears we can employ/associate with criminals as long as they don't hold certain positions within the club, no matter how talented or good at their job they are, or their ability to be the best candidate. JAB has served his sentences, done his time and deserves the opportunity to prove or disprove his worth fairly. I see it as a form of discrimination, otherwise. With polarisation in views, from a neutral pov is starting to look like is some are actually frightened he might actually be able do a good job? I have no doubt that Barton can be good at his job, I just wish he would stop lamping people who upset him particularly in the cowards way from behind. Let him get his job done of keeping the club up this season and then let the courts and FA rid us of him and his cronies.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2021 13:08:29 GMT
Sorry, got a lot of time for your posts and perspective on the Barton debate but for me it’s totally over reaching to compare employing a criminal with taking money from criminals! You can’t ban criminals from an economy, nor should you. We all, I’’m sure, agree that criminals should be allowed to re-integrate into society and that there is a place for Barton in it. It’s just a totally different debate whether a criminal who is on his 3,547th chance should be allowed to hold such a prominent position that involves him doing media work and representing a football club that has a family stand and is involved in community initiatives where there is no place for impromptu tooth extractions. I was using an exaggeration to make a point.....and if it's 3,547th chance you've used the same principle! It appears we can employ/associate with criminals as long as they don't hold certain positions within the club, no matter how talented or good at their job they are, or their ability to be the best candidate. JAB has served his sentences, done his time and deserves the opportunity to prove or disprove his worth fairly. I see it as a form of discrimination, otherwise. With polarisation in views, from a neutral pov is starting to look like is some are actually frightened he might actually be able do a good job? I think it's been said so many times now that it's getting a bit more than tedious. He hasn't been employed to paint the steps on the terraces, he's the public face of the club, and has been given this role with a court case scheduled for the same thing that has troubled him his entire life, and which, when you listen to him or read elements of his book, he attempts to glorify. Here's an example. He talks about a dog biting him, his Father found out, so ran the dog over with his car, then reversed over it again, just to make sure it was dead. Then confronted the dog's owner and told him, in no uncertain terms that the best thing he could do was get back inside of his house. Barton says that at the time he thought it was, I can't remember exactly what he says, something like 'a bit harsh' but then he says that he later realised that it was just his Dad's way of preparing him for the life he expected him to live in Liverpool. Has he condemned that act? Nope. Nowhere that I've been able to find. I looked at all of the headline stories about that Police officer's murder yesterday. Barton has plenty to say, mostly about himself and violence, but what was missing were words of sympathy or comfort for the victim's family and friends. Now of course it's possible that he did have those words and the media, being the scum that they are, chose not to use them in their pieces, but I couldn't find them and would have thought that he would have gone out of his way to object and make sure that it was crystal clear to everybody that the victim's family and friends were the main focus of his thoughts. But instead of that what we got was talk about violence and what a great guy the killer now is.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Mar 13, 2021 13:08:54 GMT
I was using an exaggeration to make a point.....and if it's 3,547th chance you've used the same principle! It appears we can employ/associate with criminals as long as they don't hold certain positions within the club, no matter how talented or good at their job they are, or their ability to be the best candidate. JAB has served his sentences, done his time and deserves the opportunity to prove or disprove his worth fairly. I see it as a form of discrimination, otherwise. With polarisation in views, from a neutral pov is starting to look like is some are actually frightened he might actually be able do a good job? I have no doubt that Barton can be good at his job, I just wish he would stop lamping people who upset him particularly in the cowards way from behind. Let him get his job done of keeping the club up this season and then let the courts and FA rid us of him and his cronies. My GasHead friend, prepare for a plan b if your first few lines are correct, and the last few lines aren't.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2021 13:11:42 GMT
I have no doubt that Barton can be good at his job, I just wish he would stop lamping people who upset him particularly in the cowards way from behind. Let him get his job done of keeping the club up this season and then let the courts and FA rid us of him and his cronies. My GasHead friend, prepare for a plan b if your first few lines are correct, and the last few lines aren't. Then I will walk away from the club until he's gone, simple.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Mar 13, 2021 13:20:39 GMT
I was using an exaggeration to make a point.....and if it's 3,547th chance you've used the same principle! It appears we can employ/associate with criminals as long as they don't hold certain positions within the club, no matter how talented or good at their job they are, or their ability to be the best candidate. JAB has served his sentences, done his time and deserves the opportunity to prove or disprove his worth fairly. I see it as a form of discrimination, otherwise. With polarisation in views, from a neutral pov is starting to look like is some are actually frightened he might actually be able do a good job? I think it's been said so many times now that it's getting a bit more than tedious. He hasn't been employed to paint the steps on the terraces, he's the public face of the club, and has been given this role with a court case scheduled for the same thing that has troubled him his entire life, and which, when you listen to him or read elements of his book, he attempts to glorify. Here's an example. He talks about a dog biting him, his Father found out, so ran the dog over with his car, then reversed over it again, just to make sure it was dead. Then confronted the dog's owner and told him, in no uncertain terms that the best thing he could do was get back inside of his house. Barton says that at the time he thought it was, I can't remember exactly what he says, something like 'a bit harsh' but then he says that he later realised that it was just his Dad's way of preparing him for the life he expected him to live in Liverpool. Has he condemned that act? Nope. Nowhere that I've been able to find. I looked at all of the headline stories about that Police officer's murder yesterday. Barton has plenty to say, mostly about himself and violence, but what was missing were words of sympathy or comfort for the victim's family and friends. Now of course it's possible that he did have those words and the media, being the scum that they are, chose not to use them in their pieces, but I couldn't find them and would have thought that he would have gone out of his way to object and make sure that it was crystal clear to everybody that the victim's family and friends were the main focus of his thoughts. But instead of that what we got was talk about violence and what a great guy the killer now is. I mean, seriously? Does your post expect anyone to condone or glorify those actions? Whether they were from a head coach or painter or turnstile operator? If it's wrong, it's wrong, whatever the position? Or do morals start stop depending on the person or the post the take up? Or how many times they've transgressed the law? The club have employed/associated with criminals before, they will do after.....it is tedious, but true.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Mar 13, 2021 13:25:20 GMT
My GasHead friend, prepare for a plan b if your first few lines are correct, and the last few lines aren't. Then I will walk away from the club until he's gone, simple. I've liked your post by not liking what you say if you actually do it. The club needs support from everyone, but respect for your stance.
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