Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2023 8:27:50 GMT
I have a feeling Barton's half-way through his career in management, myself.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
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Post by eppinggas on May 20, 2023 8:35:10 GMT
The explanation of how it works is good management of resources. In 2017/18 Coventry achieved promotion from League 2 to League 1 with a total spend of £ 7.6 million In 2021/22 Rovers achieved promotion from League 2 to League 1 with a total spend of £ 10.7 million In 2018/19, their first season back in League 1, Coventry achieved 8th place with a total spend of £ 8.5 million. In 2022/23, our first season back in League 1, Rovers achieved 17th place with a total spend in excess of £ 11 million. In 2019/20 Coventry were champions of League 1 with a total spend of £ 10.3 million. We are already spending over £ 11 million but JB says we need to spend more. We are completely mismanaging our resources. Which makes the constant and continual bigging up of WAQ/JB/Gorringe quite sad. Oh christ, here we go again.
Dear old Swiss even mentioned players names the other day.
It must have been some kind of parallel universe.
Christ, here we go again. Bloody facts getting in the way.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,505
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Post by eppinggas on May 20, 2023 9:07:32 GMT
Right gotcha. I'll use 'pro' and 'anti' in future so as not to cause offence. As for "not acceptable", but "understandable". No. No. No. No. I watch a lot of grass roots football and see many games ruined by foul mouthed, aggressive, abusive managers. These thugs take their lead from managers higher up the pyramid. Managers have a responsibility to behave. To lead. To set an example. Klopp critisizes the officials and gets fined and banned. Good. Bigger fine, longer ban preferably. Officials DO THEIR BEST. Without officials there is no game. Pea brains need to get this into their thick skulls. Luckily the latest bout of media negativity towards Bristol Rovers has been largely over-shadowed by the Ivan Toney gambling story. At least Barton has never been embroiled in any betting... oh, hang on... Use whatever words you wish, I don't think that there's anything on this forum which would offend me. I answered Oldie's question, and made a suggestion of how things might be improved, and cut out some of the tensions. My Dad refereed in the Bath & District League for many years, he was known as strict, but fair, so I know how important officials are to the game, at every level. The people who act like thugs in amateur football these days, don't necessarily take their lead from what they might see on television - they're probably the same people who are looking for violence in the city centres on a Friday or Saturday night. A 15 year old recently stabbed an 18 year old to death in Bath MacDonalds, not so long ago that would have been an unthinkable thing to happen in Bath, yet, sadly, that seems to be the way society is going. Fair play to your Dad refereeing further down the pyramid. It's a very tough job and not well paid. And your suggestions on improving refereeing sound eminently sensible. However this does not excuse the abuse that players and managers hand out to referees in the PL and EFL. Thuggish, bullying behaviour by managers and players DOES filter down and it is just no acceptable. Ask anyone involved in youth football. As for random, unprovoked violence perpetrated at a McDonalds - well at least Barton has never been embroiled in anything like that... oh, hang on...
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Post by CabbagePatchBlues on May 20, 2023 9:57:45 GMT
I have a feeling Barton's half-way through his career in management, myself. More than five years I think. Still learning his "trade" though :-)
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Post by hamdonmart on May 20, 2023 9:58:38 GMT
Shameful behaviour from the manager. Some are unconcerned by it. What has become of Bristol Rovers FC? I refer my learned colleagues to the opening comment of this thread. 173 pages ago. And many are already rushing to defend him, i also find it hard to believe that they are doing so and when Barton has said that, using basic terminology, he was out of order. If you question anythung he does then you’re placed in the anti Barton bunch, maybe that would make a good badge 😂 seriously though, the EFL tend to take these matters seriously and do not give out these bans without good reason. The EFL don't give out any bans, it's the FA.
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TaiwanGas
Paul Bannon
Tom Ramasuts Left Foot.
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,481
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Post by TaiwanGas on May 20, 2023 12:31:38 GMT
I have a feeling Barton's half-way through his career in management, myself. More than five years I think. Still learning his "trade" though :-) Indeed, 5 years+ a Manager, and 21 years in the Football Trade, Yet sold as just an ‘inexperienced beginner, Learning the Trade’. If he was a Car, I would be on the phone to Trading Standards.
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Post by Bath Gas on May 20, 2023 12:43:33 GMT
I have a feeling Barton's half-way through his career in management, myself. Who knows? You've already exceeded the lifespan for a duck - so anything is possible.
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Post by Bath Gas on May 20, 2023 14:41:32 GMT
Use whatever words you wish, I don't think that there's anything on this forum which would offend me. I answered Oldie's question, and made a suggestion of how things might be improved, and cut out some of the tensions. My Dad refereed in the Bath & District League for many years, he was known as strict, but fair, so I know how important officials are to the game, at every level. The people who act like thugs in amateur football these days, don't necessarily take their lead from what they might see on television - they're probably the same people who are looking for violence in the city centres on a Friday or Saturday night. A 15 year old recently stabbed an 18 year old to death in Bath MacDonalds, not so long ago that would have been an unthinkable thing to happen in Bath, yet, sadly, that seems to be the way society is going. Fair play to your Dad refereeing further down the pyramid. It's a very tough job and not well paid. And your suggestions on improving refereeing sound eminently sensible. However this does not excuse the abuse that players and managers hand out to referees in the PL and EFL. Thuggish, bullying behaviour by managers and players DOES filter down and it is just no acceptable. Ask anyone involved in youth football. As for random, unprovoked violence perpetrated at a McDonalds - well at least Barton has never been embroiled in anything like that... oh, hang on... I agree that referees should not be abused, however, they should also be more accountable for their decisions. I believe that some youngsters will copy the way they see players behaving, however, I would hope that by the time people are mature enough to manage a team, they would be beyond the stage of imitating behaviour, and they need to own their actions. Very low to use the murder of an 18 year old boy to have a specific dig at Barton.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 6,707
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Post by oldie on May 20, 2023 17:01:56 GMT
Fair play to your Dad refereeing further down the pyramid. It's a very tough job and not well paid. And your suggestions on improving refereeing sound eminently sensible. However this does not excuse the abuse that players and managers hand out to referees in the PL and EFL. Thuggish, bullying behaviour by managers and players DOES filter down and it is just no acceptable. Ask anyone involved in youth football. As for random, unprovoked violence perpetrated at a McDonalds - well at least Barton has never been embroiled in anything like that... oh, hang on... I agree that referees should not be abused, however, they should also be more accountable for their decisions. I believe that some youngsters will copy the way they see players behaving, however, I would hope that by the time people are mature enough to manage a team, they would be beyond the stage of imitating behaviour, and they need to own their actions. Very low to use the murder of an 18 year old boy to have a specific dig at Barton. Ummm "I would hope that by the time people are mature enough to manage a team, they would be beyond the stage of imitating behaviour, and they need to own their actions" Well quite
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Post by Bath Gas on May 20, 2023 18:10:42 GMT
I agree that referees should not be abused, however, they should also be more accountable for their decisions. I believe that some youngsters will copy the way they see players behaving, however, I would hope that by the time people are mature enough to manage a team, they would be beyond the stage of imitating behaviour, and they need to own their actions. Very low to use the murder of an 18 year old boy to have a specific dig at Barton. Ummm "I would hope that by the time people are mature enough to manage a team, they would be beyond the stage of imitating behaviour, and they need to own their actions" Well quite The consensus seems to be that poor behaviour in football is copied by others - who do you think Barton is imitating? He's not high enough up the pyramid to be the start of the chain.
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Post by Bath Gas on May 20, 2023 18:13:51 GMT
It would not definitely happen - it's a fantasy conversation, which your imagination has conjured up. Based upon your analogy About time you started owning your posts, instead of trying to deflect onto other people.
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Post by Bath Gas on May 20, 2023 18:16:30 GMT
I have a feeling Barton's half-way through his career in management, myself. More than five years I think. Still learning his "trade" though :-) You'd like to think so, successful people never stop learning.
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Post by Bath Gas on May 20, 2023 18:19:03 GMT
More than five years I think. Still learning his "trade" though :-) Indeed, 5 years+ a Manager, and 21 years in the Football Trade, Yet sold as just an ‘inexperienced beginner, Learning the Trade’. If he was a Car, I would be on the phone to Trading Standards. I said that he's still on a learning curve - do you think that all other managers who have served 5 years in the game know absolutely everything? If so, how come the majority are sacked withing 2-3 years, why would you get rid of somebody who is a master of his trade?
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TaiwanGas
Paul Bannon
Tom Ramasuts Left Foot.
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,481
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Post by TaiwanGas on May 20, 2023 18:26:03 GMT
Indeed, 5 years+ a Manager, and 21 years in the Football Trade, Yet sold as just an ‘inexperienced beginner, Learning the Trade’. If he was a Car, I would be on the phone to Trading Standards. I said that he's still on a learning curve - do you think that all other managers who have served 5 years in the game know absolutely everything? If so, how come the majority are sacked withing 2-3 years, why would you get rid of somebody who is a master of his trade? Was I replying to you?, or are you Cabbage Patch as well?. Fwiw, let’s be sensible, of course you will not know absolutely everything after 5+ years, but you are most definitely experienced, not just starting out on your career path which some are trying to use to mask the Managers below par performance this year.
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Post by droitwichgas on May 20, 2023 19:11:24 GMT
Coventry seem to have done pretty well the other night with plenty of loan players in the team and absolutely no stability during their rise through the football pyramid! Explain how that works? The explanation of how it works is good management of resources. In 2017/18 Coventry achieved promotion from League 2 to League 1 with a total spend of £ 7.6 million In 2021/22 Rovers achieved promotion from League 2 to League 1 with a total spend of £ 10.7 million In 2018/19, their first season back in League 1, Coventry achieved 8th place with a total spend of £ 8.5 million. In 2022/23, our first season back in League 1, Rovers achieved 17th place with a total spend in excess of £ 11 million. In 2019/20 Coventry were champions of League 1 with a total spend of £ 10.3 million. We are already spending over £ 11 million but JB says we need to spend more. We are completely mismanaging our resources. Which makes the constant and continual bigging up of WAQ/JB/Gorringe quite sad. Coventry are just one team who I doubt they are developing their own training facilities nor looking to build a new stadium, Plymouth spent £3.7m on their playing budget this season, I doubt we were anywhere near that figure, looking at the squad you can't imagine any of them are earning anything like KB was rumoured to be earning in the not too distant pass. You're continued criticism of Wael/JB/TG is quite sad considering there's no obvious replacements waiting in the wings to take over if Wael ever decided to move on. If Wael/TG is mismanaging our resources it's only the former's bank balance suffering it's not costing fans money.
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on May 20, 2023 19:34:24 GMT
Barton is 40 years old, he has been a League Manager for around 5 years. If as you say BG your 10% represents those 5 years then, then the other 90% to complete his career will see him 85 years a Manager, methinks it’s more like 20-30% into his career, putting some thought into it. At any rate, he is no longer, or should be considered a Learner. I do wonder how many professions in this fast paced World where after 4-5 years you are still considered with ‘L’ plates?. I was measuring his time in management against the timespan for managers employed - his age doesn't alter the % of time he has had in management compared to those who have completed their career. If I went to University now, it would take me 3 years to gain a degree, the same as somebody who is a third of my age - the fact that they will then have a longer career span doesn't mean that there will be a differential in the time we both take to gain the relevant knowledge. (Ok, apart from the fact that I'm an old fart with brain fog!) I didn't mention L plates, I said that he is still on the learning curve. If I employed somebody for a role with many different facets, in a fast changing, competitive environment, I would be horrified if they thought they knew everything there was to know within 4 years, they wouldn't be very successful at helping the company to move forward. I think your final sentence encapsulates the issue I have with Barton. Unfortunately I do think he believes he knows it all which is one of the contributing factors to explain why he falls out with so many people and why things going awry are usually someone else’s fault. I have no issue whatsoever with people being life long learners - in fact I’d welcome such an individual as our manager and in the case of leadership and management because it is about getting the best out of people it is essential and doomed to failure if you don’t. Even the likes of Woy and Colin are on a learning curve and is why they are successful. I just don’t see any evidence of this in Barton’s case. It’s the same mistakes on repeat loop which is likely why his management stats are consistent but not impressive. 250+ games at 2 clubs over 5 yrs is long enough to gauge whether or not he is a good manager. The evidence says that despite generous budgets he is mediocre at best
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on May 20, 2023 19:37:28 GMT
This exactly. Add also to that the need to replace players that he has not been able to get the most out of or has publicly hung out to dry and you have a perfect recipe for spending lots of money on chaos and turbulence. The best sides thrive because of stability. Coventry seem to have done pretty well the other night with plenty of loan players in the team and absolutely no stability during their rise through the football pyramid! Explain how that works? Perhaps they have loaned better or more experienced players than us, treated them better and got the best out of them, and have a really good manager who gets the best out of the resources at his disposal
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on May 20, 2023 19:48:15 GMT
How many of the clubs you chose to highlight were promoted, made the playoffs or finished above us in the final league table?
From this list - All of them - As you well know. Which kind of proves its a cost effective and decent way to challenge for the play offs, (or in Argyles case - win the league) In fact, unless you are loaded (Ipswich, Sheff wed) it may be the only realistic way.
But that doesnt fit the narrative of some, as we well know
It does if you get the right ones in, treat them well whilst with you and get the best out of them. Probability of success greatly reduced if you publicly hang them out to dry. Also not a good idea to do it to fix a problem that did not exist and in the process kill all the momentum that had been building. That tgen begs the question why if those clubs can make it work well then why couldn’t we repeat the success we had the season before with the likes of Anderson Taylor and Connolly?
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on May 20, 2023 19:51:09 GMT
Oh christ, here we go again.
Dear old Swiss even mentioned players names the other day.
It must have been some kind of parallel universe.
Careful you don't suffocate in that sand. No chance of that. He’s staring at what Barton ate for breakfast
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on May 20, 2023 19:55:30 GMT
Hear hear! Some of the criticisms against JB have been absolutely ridiculous and embarrassing. Highlighting the strange negativity of how some see football. There will be quite a few that slagged off Lennie,GC and now JB. Like a bloody freak show. Come see,come hear the moaners moan!
Flogging a dead horse Bas, or in technical terms 'p*ssing in the wind'
Its a case of some people wanting to invent Rovers related misery so that they can wallow in it, in the hope that one day that can say 'told you'.
They are in the wrong sport
Another award for the club his week for family engagement - not a word on gasheads.org.
Negative Negative Negative
I came across some posts from a few years ago recently, pre JB, same negativity, but the same posters, same moaning, just different things to moan about. The same people, saying the same things. Hate everything about Rovers and keep talking about it. So very odd.
Anyway, cricket season now
Up The Gas
Start a thread on it. Your post above is the first I’vd heard of this. Pretty sure most would agree this is a good thing and would say well done BRFC
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