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Post by baselswh on May 18, 2023 19:47:29 GMT
So you don’t give him any credit for being able to get a player of Elliot Anderson ability to the club, orchestrating a last match 7-0 victory & getting us promoted back to league 1, strange. He did not scout or get Anderson more like he was offered him JB said when he first saw him train he went wow! He then made sure we had a formation he could thrive in, so credit for that. But he was lucky to get him. Also not sure how it would have worked with his favourite 3 at the back. Not luck,but contacts and those willing to entrust their good young players to JB and Rovers. Joe has excellent contacts all over England.
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Post by laughinggas on May 18, 2023 19:51:56 GMT
He did not scout or get Anderson more like he was offered him JB said when he first saw him train he went wow! He then made sure we had a formation he could thrive in, so credit for that. But he was lucky to get him. Also not sure how it would have worked with his favourite 3 at the back. Not luck,but contacts and those willing to entrust their good young players to JB and Rovers. Joe has excellent contacts all over England. Only because Luton would not guarantee game time. If I remember correctly he was not first choice, so yes luck was involved. Not sure you can say we would have gone up without him.
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Post by Bath Gas on May 18, 2023 20:13:10 GMT
Do we really need playground labels, such as "Fanboy", "Messiah", "Cult" etc? I consider that people will be "pro" or "anti" or somewhere in between the two - no reason to take it further. I don't find it "acceptable", however, having watched all of our games, unfortunately it is understandable - the standard of officials is poor. Referees need to be more accountable for their decisions, no reason why they can't watch a replay of a controversial incident with the managers after the game. If managers knew that there was going to be an opportunity for discussion, and clarification, it would cut out the need to speak to the officials prior to this happening, and Mr Barton is certainly not alone in approaching officials after a game. If a club bothers to contact the referees' association, the incident is reviewed, and they receive an apology, if appropriate. I am sure there would be more respect for referees if they were open to admitting if they got something wrong in "real time", and they don't have the benefit of watching an instant replay which managers are able to do in the dugout. Right gotcha. I'll use 'pro' and 'anti' in future so as not to cause offence. As for "not acceptable", but "understandable". No. No. No. No. I watch a lot of grass roots football and see many games ruined by foul mouthed, aggressive, abusive managers. These thugs take their lead from managers higher up the pyramid. Managers have a responsibility to behave. To lead. To set an example. Klopp critisizes the officials and gets fined and banned. Good. Bigger fine, longer ban preferably. Officials DO THEIR BEST. Without officials there is no game. Pea brains need to get this into their thick skulls. Luckily the latest bout of media negativity towards Bristol Rovers has been largely over-shadowed by the Ivan Toney gambling story. At least Barton has never been embroiled in any betting... oh, hang on... Use whatever words you wish, I don't think that there's anything on this forum which would offend me. I answered Oldie's question, and made a suggestion of how things might be improved, and cut out some of the tensions. My Dad refereed in the Bath & District League for many years, he was known as strict, but fair, so I know how important officials are to the game, at every level. The people who act like thugs in amateur football these days, don't necessarily take their lead from what they might see on television - they're probably the same people who are looking for violence in the city centres on a Friday or Saturday night. A 15 year old recently stabbed an 18 year old to death in Bath MacDonalds, not so long ago that would have been an unthinkable thing to happen in Bath, yet, sadly, that seems to be the way society is going.
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Post by Bath Gas on May 18, 2023 20:21:01 GMT
Have you read JBs review of what needs to improve Droitwich? He'll be searching for particular players to make these improvements . I think he knows more or less exactly what he wants. Most managers will have a plan,but some just can't get it together. JB has a plan and knows how to implement it. Things learnt this season is part of our foundations for next season. He said the same thing last summer and again in January 🤔 Unfortunately, signing players isn't an exact science. Do you expect managers to talk down their plans? "Well, there will be teams in this league with a bigger budget, and I know that I'm not likely to get all the players I want, so brace yourselves for a mid-table finish. Now get your cheque book out and buy a season ticket. "
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Post by oldie on May 18, 2023 20:31:16 GMT
He said the same thing last summer and again in January 🤔 Unfortunately, signing players isn't an exact science. Do you expect managers to talk down their plans? "Well, there will be teams in this league with a bigger budget, and I know that I'm not likely to get all the players I want, so brace yourselves for a mid-table finish. Now get your cheque book out and buy a season ticket. " So you would then, equally,think that promising a certain position in the league is equally ridiculous?
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Post by Bath Gas on May 18, 2023 21:37:19 GMT
Unfortunately, signing players isn't an exact science. Do you expect managers to talk down their plans? "Well, there will be teams in this league with a bigger budget, and I know that I'm not likely to get all the players I want, so brace yourselves for a mid-table finish. Now get your cheque book out and buy a season ticket. " So you would then, equally,think that promising a certain position in the league is equally ridiculous? No, it gives us an idea of what he's aiming for - he has belief in himself. Remember how people laughed at his interview after the Exeter away defeat in August?
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Post by kingswood Polak on May 19, 2023 6:42:36 GMT
So you would then, equally,think that promising a certain position in the league is equally ridiculous? No, it gives us an idea of what he's aiming for - he has belief in himself. Remember how people laughed at his interview after the Exeter away defeat in August? You know BG, i get and like ambition but it’s the unnecessary stuff, such as i will get Rovers to the championship in 2 seasons or i will give up and be playing golf. Of course i would really love for us to be a championship club but surely, he must know he is setting himself up when he makes such comments , no ? I think all of us can agree that we would love to see Rovers play at the highest level. Getting there is one thing but staying there is another and I’d say is another topic to discuss, on a separate thread. I do not understand why he makes such comments but then, i have never professed to be some kind of oracle. Seems daft, to me .
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Post by laughinggas on May 19, 2023 8:20:05 GMT
In my opinion JB is not as bad as the few suggest but he is no where, yet, as good as the many and he thinks.
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Post by Bath Gas on May 19, 2023 9:50:13 GMT
In my opinion JB is not as bad as the few suggest but he is no where, yet, as good as the many and he thinks. He's a young manager, on the learning curve of his career, I expect him to touch both ends of the scale along the way. It will be a while before we see which part of the spectrum he settles at.
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on May 19, 2023 10:03:35 GMT
What foundations? You have clearly been smoking cricket balls again. The spine of the team is likely to be entirely different next season - either because we have sold our prize asset(s), the players were on loan and not ours, they are crocked or may decide they can't stomach the needless tinkering of a deluded lunatic with a hair trigger temper who is only ever microns away from his next act of thuggery. The only foundation we have is that we are still a L1 club because sufficient of our competitors were even worse than us (and all of them beat us at least once). Form normally carries over into the following season too. The way we ended this one doesn't say that we'll have a good go next time around I'm also struggling with the perception of foundations. Team wise we have Collins and Hoole definitely plus Connolly and Gordon possibly but otherwise I can't see any building for the future. And the core of the backroom staff, Eddy Jennings, Andy Mangan, Danny Ventre, Tom Short, Greg Short, James Aitken and Chris Spendlove all have such close links to JB that they are likely to move on if he goes. The only bright spot could be Glenn Whelan who might be a future managerial candidate but would need a strong support structure around him. The foundations are built on a heady mixture of luck, chemistry and paper. The 'plan' would appear to be to keep getting loanees in key positions and hope they gel quick enough to have a tilt at the play-offs. The following season will require yet another re-build as the loanees go back to their parent Clubs. Rinse and repeat. Rinse and repeat. Rovers do not have the structure to get good youngsters coming through (see detailed comments from The Concept). This is down to Barton, and Wael ceding to his wishes. Barton. Spending £3-£4mil of Wael's money each year in a vainglorious attempt at promotion. There is no vision beyond the next transfer window and Barton begging Wael for more money. When Barton goes, and Rovers inevitably lose a bulk of their coaching staff, there will be very little left. (Apart from the Quarters). This is the future, This is what it looks like.
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on May 19, 2023 13:12:50 GMT
In my opinion JB is not as bad as the few suggest but he is no where, yet, as good as the many and he thinks. He's a young manager, on the learning curve of his career, I expect him to touch both ends of the scale along the way. It will be a while before we see which part of the spectrum he settles at. He’s managed 250+ games now at two different clubs with almost identical results. How many games does he need to manage before his “L” plates are removed?
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on May 19, 2023 13:17:07 GMT
I'm also struggling with the perception of foundations. Team wise we have Collins and Hoole definitely plus Connolly and Gordon possibly but otherwise I can't see any building for the future. And the core of the backroom staff, Eddy Jennings, Andy Mangan, Danny Ventre, Tom Short, Greg Short, James Aitken and Chris Spendlove all have such close links to JB that they are likely to move on if he goes. The only bright spot could be Glenn Whelan who might be a future managerial candidate but would need a strong support structure around him. The foundations are built on a heady mixture of luck, chemistry and paper. The 'plan' would appear to be to keep getting loanees in key positions and hope they gel quick enough to have a tilt at the play-offs. The following season will require yet another re-build as the loanees go back to their parent Clubs. Rinse and repeat. Rinse and repeat. Rovers do not have the structure to get good youngsters coming through (see detailed comments from The Concept). This is down to Barton, and Wael ceding to his wishes. Barton. Spending £3-£4mil of Wael's money each year in a vainglorious attempt at promotion. There is no vision beyond the next transfer window and Barton begging Wael for more money. When Barton goes, and Rovers inevitably lose a bulk of their coaching staff, there will be very little left. (Apart from the Quarters). This is the future, This is what it looks like. This exactly. Add also to that the need to replace players that he has not been able to get the most out of or has publicly hung out to dry and you have a perfect recipe for spending lots of money on chaos and turbulence. The best sides thrive because of stability.
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on May 19, 2023 13:21:57 GMT
He said the same thing last summer and again in January 🤔 Unfortunately, signing players isn't an exact science. Do you expect managers to talk down their plans? "Well, there will be teams in this league with a bigger budget, and I know that I'm not likely to get all the players I want, so brace yourselves for a mid-table finish. Now get your cheque book out and buy a season ticket. " Better to say little or nothing and do your talking where it really matters - on the pitch. My preference is always for under promising and over delivering rather than the other way around. The latter just makes you look arrogant and foolish
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Post by Bath Gas on May 19, 2023 15:34:03 GMT
He's a young manager, on the learning curve of his career, I expect him to touch both ends of the scale along the way. It will be a while before we see which part of the spectrum he settles at. He’s managed 250+ games now at two different clubs with almost identical results. How many games does he need to manage before his “L” plates are removed? He's roughly 10% into his career then, if he stays in management for the long haul.
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Post by TaiwanGas on May 19, 2023 17:45:21 GMT
He’s managed 250+ games now at two different clubs with almost identical results. How many games does he need to manage before his “L” plates are removed? He's roughly 10% into his career then, if he stays in management for the long haul. Barton is 40 years old, he has been a League Manager for around 5 years. If as you say BG your 10% represents those 5 years then, then the other 90% to complete his career will see him 85 years a Manager, methinks it’s more like 20-30% into his career, putting some thought into it. At any rate, he is no longer, or should be considered a Learner. I do wonder how many professions in this fast paced World where after 4-5 years you are still considered with ‘L’ plates?.
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Post by oldie on May 19, 2023 17:57:21 GMT
He's roughly 10% into his career then, if he stays in management for the long haul. Barton is 40 years old, he has been a League Manager for around 5 years. If as you say BG your 10% represents those 5 years then, then the other 90% to complete his career will see him 85 years a Manager, methinks it’s more like 20-30% into his career, putting some thought into it. At any rate, he is no longer, or should be considered a Learner. I do wonder how many professions in this fast paced World where after 4-5 years you are still considered with ‘L’ plates?. Ummmm.....none
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Post by baselswh on May 19, 2023 18:33:27 GMT
Barton is 40 years old, he has been a League Manager for around 5 years. If as you say BG your 10% represents those 5 years then, then the other 90% to complete his career will see him 85 years a Manager, methinks it’s more like 20-30% into his career, putting some thought into it. At any rate, he is no longer, or should be considered a Learner. I do wonder how many professions in this fast paced World where after 4-5 years you are still considered with ‘L’ plates?. Ummmm.....none Unlike a few around here,Joe does'nt believe he knows it all. He is a scholar of the game,always willing to watch and listen, to improve his understanding of football. Obsessed with the game. We're lucky he's at Rovers.
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Post by oldie on May 19, 2023 19:16:14 GMT
Unlike a few around here,Joe does'nt believe he knows it all. He is a scholar of the game,always willing to watch and listen, to improve his understanding of football. Obsessed with the game. We're lucky he's at Rovers. You sure?
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Post by Bath Gas on May 19, 2023 19:37:01 GMT
Unlike a few around here,Joe does'nt believe he knows it all. He is a scholar of the game,always willing to watch and listen, to improve his understanding of football. Obsessed with the game. We're lucky he's at Rovers. You sure? Positive.
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Post by Bath Gas on May 19, 2023 19:52:01 GMT
He's roughly 10% into his career then, if he stays in management for the long haul. Barton is 40 years old, he has been a League Manager for around 5 years. If as you say BG your 10% represents those 5 years then, then the other 90% to complete his career will see him 85 years a Manager, methinks it’s more like 20-30% into his career, putting some thought into it. At any rate, he is no longer, or should be considered a Learner. I do wonder how many professions in this fast paced World where after 4-5 years you are still considered with ‘L’ plates?. I was measuring his time in management against the timespan for managers employed - his age doesn't alter the % of time he has had in management compared to those who have completed their career. If I went to University now, it would take me 3 years to gain a degree, the same as somebody who is a third of my age - the fact that they will then have a longer career span doesn't mean that there will be a differential in the time we both take to gain the relevant knowledge. (Ok, apart from the fact that I'm an old fart with brain fog!) I didn't mention L plates, I said that he is still on the learning curve. If I employed somebody for a role with many different facets, in a fast changing, competitive environment, I would be horrified if they thought they knew everything there was to know within 4 years, they wouldn't be very successful at helping the company to move forward.
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