Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2023 16:49:34 GMT
JB's win stats for Fleetwood in League one is 39% incidentally. Pretty decent. Imagine those stats 'cant be allowed' in this particular debate though. (Although they might be if Shrews or Exeter ) Which was finished on a PPG system, due to COVID That was just part of one season, the stats do not take unplayed games into account
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Feb 16, 2023 16:49:48 GMT
Vindictive, sanctimonious, drivel. No surprise so many no longer post on this forum. Just the other week DrFaustas posted on the other forum ,that he does'nt bother with this one anymore because of the useless negativity posted. Congratulations. The irony is Bas that about 17 years ago this is exactly the kind of language which would have been launched at you (and me) by the "old guard" which had blind faith in Geoff Dunford and then Nick Higgs and wouldn't have a word said against them. These people were "grateful" for all that Geoff and his family had done and "grateful" for all the money Nick was putting in but couldn't see that their refusal to even look at alternatives was harming Rovers. They called us "negative" and now you are saying that anyone critical of JB is "negative" but is that really correct ? My view is that retreating to a stance where people are called "haters" and told to "f**k off down the Gate" is a signal that the argument is being lost. There is no doubt that quite a few fans don't like JB because of his personality and track record of, let's say, non-conformity but equally there are some Gasheads who don't think he is the right man for the job because of his managerial strategy. I looked at his record at Fleetwood before he joined Rovers and don't think his way of working is a good fit for our club. He builds his teams around his enforcers (Coutts & Finley), experienced players from higher leagues nearing the end of their careeers, players which have come through the ranks at higher league clubs but not made it because of issues he think's he can resolve, players of undoubted quality with serious injury problems which he gambles can be put right and young loan players from higher leagues. This is a very expensive strategy with a lot of waste having to be factored in and the results at Fleetwood were, IMO, not commensurate with the financial risk taken. In 20/21 Fleetwood's total costs were £10 million (Rovers were just under £9 million) and JB's average points per game during his time there was 1.47 giving 68 points per season which would place Fleetwood at 10th-12th in League 1 over the past couple of seasons. I think the Fleetwood owner saw that the strategy was going nowhere and the money he was putting up far outweighed the reward and this is the reason he let JB go. My input last week comparing Rovers to Shrewsbury and Exeter was intended to be positive. If we look at Fleetwood Town and what their owner is trying to achieve we can see he is at a huge disadvantage compared to Rovers. Because we know that if we could get our formula right we could achieve the attendances and commercial income to give us a fighting chance of being sustainable in the Championship whereas for Fleetwood it would take years to build up the fanbase and revenue potential we already have. The problem is that without a completed training ground we can't bring our Academy together or reintroduce a properly managed development squad so our chance of bringing through high quality young players is limited. Likewise our stadium restricts our capacity to generate revenue and until that changes we will continue to be reliant on our owner who, like any owner, has a limit to what he can contribute. My proposal was to actually have a strategy rather than continue to "hit & hope" which has only lead Rovers to keep going round and round in circles. If we found out how to run a mid table League 1 Club on £ 6 million a year instead of £ 9 million a year we would have £3 million a year to invest in infrastructure. And once that infrastructure was in place our "glass ceiling" would disappear so, as we were able to invest more in the team and rise up the leagues, there would be no fear of the future because, with increased attendances bringing greater revenue and the sale of more home grown players bringing windfalls, the process would be to a large extent self financing. The key is to have a plan, be transparent about it, and for everyone connected with Rovers to accept that we may have to make sacrifices in the short term for greater good in the long term. I can't find much fault with that statement
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2023 17:04:56 GMT
The irony is Bas that about 17 years ago this is exactly the kind of language which would have been launched at you (and me) by the "old guard" which had blind faith in Geoff Dunford and then Nick Higgs and wouldn't have a word said against them. These people were "grateful" for all that Geoff and his family had done and "grateful" for all the money Nick was putting in but couldn't see that their refusal to even look at alternatives was harming Rovers. They called us "negative" and now you are saying that anyone critical of JB is "negative" but is that really correct ? My view is that retreating to a stance where people are called "haters" and told to "f**k off down the Gate" is a signal that the argument is being lost. There is no doubt that quite a few fans don't like JB because of his personality and track record of, let's say, non-conformity but equally there are some Gasheads who don't think he is the right man for the job because of his managerial strategy. I looked at his record at Fleetwood before he joined Rovers and don't think his way of working is a good fit for our club. He builds his teams around his enforcers (Coutts & Finley), experienced players from higher leagues nearing the end of their careeers, players which have come through the ranks at higher league clubs but not made it because of issues he think's he can resolve, players of undoubted quality with serious injury problems which he gambles can be put right and young loan players from higher leagues. This is a very expensive strategy with a lot of waste having to be factored in and the results at Fleetwood were, IMO, not commensurate with the financial risk taken. In 20/21 Fleetwood's total costs were £10 million (Rovers were just under £9 million) and JB's average points per game during his time there was 1.47 giving 68 points per season which would place Fleetwood at 10th-12th in League 1 over the past couple of seasons. I think the Fleetwood owner saw that the strategy was going nowhere and the money he was putting up far outweighed the reward and this is the reason he let JB go. My input last week comparing Rovers to Shrewsbury and Exeter was intended to be positive. If we look at Fleetwood Town and what their owner is trying to achieve we can see he is at a huge disadvantage compared to Rovers. Because we know that if we could get our formula right we could achieve the attendances and commercial income to give us a fighting chance of being sustainable in the Championship whereas for Fleetwood it would take years to build up the fanbase and revenue potential we already have. The problem is that without a completed training ground we can't bring our Academy together or reintroduce a properly managed development squad so our chance of bringing through high quality young players is limited. Likewise our stadium restricts our capacity to generate revenue and until that changes we will continue to be reliant on our owner who, like any owner, has a limit to what he can contribute. My proposal was to actually have a strategy rather than continue to "hit & hope" which has only lead Rovers to keep going round and round in circles. If we found out how to run a mid table League 1 Club on £ 6 million a year instead of £ 9 million a year we would have £3 million a year to invest in infrastructure. And once that infrastructure was in place our "glass ceiling" would disappear so, as we were able to invest more in the team and rise up the leagues, there would be no fear of the future because, with increased attendances bringing greater revenue and the sale of more home grown players bringing windfalls, the process would be to a large extent self financing. The key is to have a plan, be transparent about it, and for everyone connected with Rovers to accept that we may have to make sacrifices in the short term for greater good in the long term. I can't find much fault with that statement
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baselswh
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Post by baselswh on Feb 16, 2023 17:12:11 GMT
The irony is Bas that about 17 years ago this is exactly the kind of language which would have been launched at you (and me) by the "old guard" which had blind faith in Geoff Dunford and then Nick Higgs and wouldn't have a word said against them. These people were "grateful" for all that Geoff and his family had done and "grateful" for all the money Nick was putting in but couldn't see that their refusal to even look at alternatives was harming Rovers. They called us "negative" and now you are saying that anyone critical of JB is "negative" but is that really correct ? My view is that retreating to a stance where people are called "haters" and told to "f**k off down the Gate" is a signal that the argument is being lost. There is no doubt that quite a few fans don't like JB because of his personality and track record of, let's say, non-conformity but equally there are some Gasheads who don't think he is the right man for the job because of his managerial strategy. I looked at his record at Fleetwood before he joined Rovers and don't think his way of working is a good fit for our club. He builds his teams around his enforcers (Coutts & Finley), experienced players from higher leagues nearing the end of their careeers, players which have come through the ranks at higher league clubs but not made it because of issues he think's he can resolve, players of undoubted quality with serious injury problems which he gambles can be put right and young loan players from higher leagues. This is a very expensive strategy with a lot of waste having to be factored in and the results at Fleetwood were, IMO, not commensurate with the financial risk taken. In 20/21 Fleetwood's total costs were £10 million (Rovers were just under £9 million) and JB's average points per game during his time there was 1.47 giving 68 points per season which would place Fleetwood at 10th-12th in League 1 over the past couple of seasons. I think the Fleetwood owner saw that the strategy was going nowhere and the money he was putting up far outweighed the reward and this is the reason he let JB go. My input last week comparing Rovers to Shrewsbury and Exeter was intended to be positive. If we look at Fleetwood Town and what their owner is trying to achieve we can see he is at a huge disadvantage compared to Rovers. Because we know that if we could get our formula right we could achieve the attendances and commercial income to give us a fighting chance of being sustainable in the Championship whereas for Fleetwood it would take years to build up the fanbase and revenue potential we already have. The problem is that without a completed training ground we can't bring our Academy together or reintroduce a properly managed development squad so our chance of bringing through high quality young players is limited. Likewise our stadium restricts our capacity to generate revenue and until that changes we will continue to be reliant on our owner who, like any owner, has a limit to what he can contribute. My proposal was to actually have a strategy rather than continue to "hit & hope" which has only lead Rovers to keep going round and round in circles. If we found out how to run a mid table League 1 Club on £ 6 million a year instead of £ 9 million a year we would have £3 million a year to invest in infrastructure. And once that infrastructure was in place our "glass ceiling" would disappear so, as we were able to invest more in the team and rise up the leagues, there would be no fear of the future because, with increased attendances bringing greater revenue and the sale of more home grown players bringing windfalls, the process would be to a large extent self financing. The key is to have a plan, be transparent about it, and for everyone connected with Rovers to accept that we may have to make sacrifices in the short term for greater good in the long term. I can't find much fault with that statement Oh I probably will then,I'll read it later.
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baselswh
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Post by baselswh on Feb 16, 2023 17:14:11 GMT
Let's not start again please. And Oldie knows I play a straight bat on matters on here so no snide remarks please Bas. Let it ride Chesh, I won't be responding to stuff like this. You've already posted too much.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2023 17:20:17 GMT
I can't find much fault with that statement Well unless the good stuff is acknowledged as well bad, no one is going to take some posts/posters seriously for a start.
Other than that:
Its full of genreralisations of Rovers fans
And its already been done to death anyway
If anyone thinks that you can cut £3m off budget and remain competitive in League one then ask yourself why every other club doesnt do the same.
And as regards Fleetwood, who knows what their owner wants/wanted to achieve but I rather think he has/had more important things to worry about than JB.
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on Feb 16, 2023 17:38:26 GMT
Garner should never have been appointed in the first place. A terrible decision and would have been out of his depth in a puddle. That being clear should have been sacked far earlier than he actually was, compounding a litany of errors It was just another example of our owner not really knowing what to do and being surrounded by people who first looked after themselves, before the club. The entire blueprint, so i am told, was the owners thought and the talk of DNA and the like was also something he was keen on BUT, it was completely the wrong time to implement it. I know it’s easy for me to say but to have undermined GC by having Garner attend games was silly at best and downright rude at worst. I would have hoped we would be past talking about it but it rears it’s head, each time we do not perform and the pathological hatred towards Garner is beyond anything i cold believe of true Rovers supporters. He was given a brief of bringing in youth, developing them and selling them on, his budget and salary was not anywhere near high. One could say he was doomed to fail, the real question is why then, why, when we were flying high ? Ah well, time to let go, if only some would allow it It wasn't a bad idea in itself, just that as per standard BRFC modus operandii we executed it badly. Agree about timing too - to do it all or nothing mid season when we were flying high was unforgiveable in my eyes. All the momentum GC had built up was lost almost overnight. We were fortunate that GC had secured us enough points by that time to be safe from being dragged into a relegation dogfight. I also don't hate Benny (as much as I don't hate Barton). I just don't think he was a very good manager. His record at Swindon (did well initially but wheels were starting to fall off) and Charlton (couldn't get rid of quick enough at the end) since then doesn't leave me losing any sleep that I might have judged him harshly. it might have worked better if we had done it more gradually - grow the players, bed them in bit by bit around the nucleus of the team who were at that point punching well above their collective weight. I do raise it from time to time more for comparison (with other managers) purposes, or to illustrate the point that our owner has made some really poor recruitment decisions and I think this is valid. I can't erase though the memory of the particularly dire and depressing home defeat against Doncaster where Benny set us up in a narrow 4 - 1 - 2 - 1 -2 and he had the likes of Sercombe, Hargraves etc chasing shadows as Donny simply passed their way around and through us like they were Man City on drugs. That game in particular confirmed to me that he really didn't have a scooby what he was doing.
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on Feb 16, 2023 17:41:59 GMT
JB's win stats for Fleetwood in League one is 39% incidentally. Pretty decent. Imagine those stats 'cant be allowed' in this particular debate though. (Although they might be if Shrews or Exeter ) Not quite good enough though for them to be serious promotion contenders and anecdotally he was working with a large budget. Also begs the question why they couldn't get rid of him quick enough come the end. I don't generally bother with other teams forums but wonder what their fans make of his time there?
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on Feb 16, 2023 17:50:49 GMT
Those that show “utter negativity” are very, very few I would imagine, but like you I’ve no real knowledge of how many that is. My point is that many posters are being characterised as ‘Barton-haters’ or, at the other end of the line ‘Barton-lovers’. And we get the very few Barton sycophants for whom the man can do no wrong. On both forums it seems there has to be polarised positions when I don’t think many are at the extremes. Pretty sure no one is full of anger and bitterness for all things BRFC. They may be critical of aspects of his management and his personality but have continued to support the team. Attendances have stayed pretty high considering the call on people’s purses atm. I suspect that although he has undoubtedly divided the fan base opinionwise most will have continued to support the team. You are spot on imo about enjoying the good times and most have continued to do that. Anyone who missed that Scunthorpe match missed a moment in BRFC history but I guess that shows the strength of their feelings. Whatever, very sad. I think JB when he concentrates on the football can be a very good manager but too often gets sidetracked into personal stuff with players as he did very unpleasantly again at Lincoln on Saturday. Why? Now that is certainly baffling. But I am unhappy that BRFC is at a very low place atm in the eyes of the football community at our level. (With the PL and Championship we don’t even register, they’re not worried about little old BRFC!) So yes,I’m unhappy at many aspects of JBs management. If my staff had gone into the environments of other schools and acted as crassly as JB does on many occasions apart from being totally embarrassed by it, it would likely be a disciplinary matter. (I know others will remind me that football is a different business compared to anything else which I accept. But even so…..) Anyway I will be there Saturday against Burton and will support us as I always do and I have my tickets for the FGR away match which I’m looking forward to having missed my usual away games this season because of the train strikes. I’m sure I’m somewhere along that line between the two extremes but after two years I don’t really care. I really have disliked in the past few days how Belshaw has been hung out to dry by some and how now JB has spoken on the other forum fans for whom Belshaw was once spoken of very well is now having other things said about him. Loyal and true eh? Blimey. But I’ve become more immune to his behaviours and now almost accept that JB will be the story not BRFC. Let’s hope for good results and performances going forward, concentrate on the football, not the manager or even the goalkeeper! 🤔 UTG! I don't care what Barton says, he wouldn't change my mind about liking Belshaw, I would be very sorry to see him leave. Me too, but would gladly accept it if we were certain he was being replaced by better. Balcombe may well be but likely to need games, and will also make mistakes along the way. At this moment in time it looks like a gamble, and potentially a reckless one at that. I did feel sorry for the lad at Morecambe - not his fault that he was picked over Belly - but any mistake he made was always going to be amplified by the way the whole thing was handled. I still don't think this was an issue that was anywhere near the top of the pile to be solved, and the loan agreement forcing our hand looks like bad business to me unless he turns out to be a world beater and/or we sign him permanently
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baselswh
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Post by baselswh on Feb 16, 2023 18:25:13 GMT
Vindictive, sanctimonious, drivel. No surprise so many no longer post on this forum. Just the other week DrFaustas posted on the other forum ,that he does'nt bother with this one anymore because of the useless negativity posted. Congratulations. The irony is Bas that about 17 years ago this is exactly the kind of language which would have been launched at you (and me) by the "old guard" which had blind faith in Geoff Dunford and then Nick Higgs and wouldn't have a word said against them. These people were "grateful" for all that Geoff and his family had done and "grateful" for all the money Nick was putting in but couldn't see that their refusal to even look at alternatives was harming Rovers. They called us "negative" and now you are saying that anyone critical of JB is "negative" but is that really correct ? My view is that retreating to a stance where people are called "haters" and told to "f**k off down the Gate" is a signal that the argument is being lost. There is no doubt that quite a few fans don't like JB because of his personality and track record of, let's say, non-conformity but equally there are some Gasheads who don't think he is the right man for the job because of his managerial strategy. I looked at his record at Fleetwood before he joined Rovers and don't think his way of working is a good fit for our club. He builds his teams around his enforcers (Coutts & Finley), experienced players from higher leagues nearing the end of their careeers, players which have come through the ranks at higher league clubs but not made it because of issues he think's he can resolve, players of undoubted quality with serious injury problems which he gambles can be put right and young loan players from higher leagues. This is a very expensive strategy with a lot of waste having to be factored in and the results at Fleetwood were, IMO, not commensurate with the financial risk taken. In 20/21 Fleetwood's total costs were £10 million (Rovers were just under £9 million) and JB's average points per game during his time there was 1.47 giving 68 points per season which would place Fleetwood at 10th-12th in League 1 over the past couple of seasons. I think the Fleetwood owner saw that the strategy was going nowhere and the money he was putting up far outweighed the reward and this is the reason he let JB go. My input last week comparing Rovers to Shrewsbury and Exeter was intended to be positive. If we look at Fleetwood Town and what their owner is trying to achieve we can see he is at a huge disadvantage compared to Rovers. Because we know that if we could get our formula right we could achieve the attendances and commercial income to give us a fighting chance of being sustainable in the Championship whereas for Fleetwood it would take years to build up the fanbase and revenue potential we already have. The problem is that without a completed training ground we can't bring our Academy together or reintroduce a properly managed development squad so our chance of bringing through high quality young players is limited. Likewise our stadium restricts our capacity to generate revenue and until that changes we will continue to be reliant on our owner who, like any owner, has a limit to what he can contribute. My proposal was to actually have a strategy rather than continue to "hit & hope" which has only lead Rovers to keep going round and round in circles. If we found out how to run a mid table League 1 Club on £ 6 million a year instead of £ 9 million a year we would have £3 million a year to invest in infrastructure. And once that infrastructure was in place our "glass ceiling" would disappear so, as we were able to invest more in the team and rise up the leagues, there would be no fear of the future because, with increased attendances bringing greater revenue and the sale of more home grown players bringing windfalls, the process would be to a large extent self financing. The key is to have a plan, be transparent about it, and for everyone connected with Rovers to accept that we may have to make sacrifices in the short term for greater good in the long term. Haha!Those were the days,the 'Rovers civil war'.I was on the losing side and eventually I just accepted Higgsy .I did this because continuing would of actually damaged the fc,rather than help it.I think some were disappointed in me for that, but we were beaten and as I said,to continue would of been detrimental to Rovers. I suppose Higgsy had his moment when we won back our EFL status. Swiss,I don't say all critique of JB is "negative ". Those that for 2 years have criticised JB at every opportunity because they personally don't like him ,I say that is negative,destructive and useless.Their posts read like something from otib,rather than a fellow Gashead saying eg,I think JB got the selection wrong today.I've used the term "Barton haters" because that's exactly what some are.For 2 years they've failed to put their hate to one side. I think i am winning,because I listen to the manager and watch the games.I hear the theory and witness the practice. It's unfortunate that some that sensibly criticise JB and when due give him credit,may of been accused of being a 'Barton hater". By the way,I've not told anyone to f off to Ashton Gate. Regarding signings,Sam Finley has a few years yet (maybe 28 on signing for Gas) ,has'nt he? The injured prone quality signings is a gamble.Maybe Rovers have to throw the dice? The Finley Rossitter was absolutely spot on while it lasted and to be fair,the new pairing of Ward and Bogarde (plus Evans) was very good Tuesday night. I never saw your Shrewsbury post,but your plan sounds okay in theory,but I have faith in the current set up.To a point. As we are,WAQ is happy to pay the bills,so if we eg reach 9th place in the 3rd tier, but it costs £2,000,000 more than Shrews 8th place,then so be it.We'll still hopefully continue on an upwards trajectory, but will the Shrews? Of course the lack of new stadia holds us back. The loan market,what's your view on that Swiss? It's a gamble,but all EFL fcs are at it. It seems to me JB waits until the last day to hopefully sign a couple of 'stars'.To be fair he's been very good at this. The training facilities and coaching are apparently impressive.Loan players happy,most of them. Then,once they've done well at Rovers ,had a few headlines in their name, it makes it difficult to sign them on a fixed deal ,thus strengthening the squad. There's the gamble. Then again,how many players come through the ranks and at what expense? I'm afraid I can't see Quansah or Bogarde signing fixed (£),but maybe Ellery Balcombe might be a possibility. The loan market is now massive,it's not nice,but we're apparently stuck with for the time being. In the scenario 2 of the 5 loan players sign fixed deals,then that might be a decent return. Over 2 or 3 seasons we would be strengthening the squad.Hopefully.
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Feb 16, 2023 18:38:04 GMT
Whoa there Bath Gas! Who called you "vile"? When was that? What was the context? Could it have been perceived as bullying? Was it Reported? It was ages ago, it was describing one of my posts. If I felt strongly about something, I would report it, this happened at a time when emotions were running high, so I felt it was best to ignore it. Hi Bath Gas - search functionality looks like it's working OK Your first posting on the forum appears to be July 30th, 2021. It looks like there was a bit of a spat between yourself, TTWD and Shoveller. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't find anyone calling you "vile". TTWD said: "You've mustered sufficient concentration be be selective about which part of my post you quoted I see. How about quoting the entire thing or you may appear to be somewhat disingenuous". You said: "Unbelievable, an absolutely vile thing to say. I'm just hoping that the moderators are more up to date, and have some moral standards". Note to self: Must get out more. Need to check my moral standards. I like you Bath, and I miss TTWD.
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Feb 16, 2023 19:28:19 GMT
It was ages ago, it was describing one of my posts. If I felt strongly about something, I would report it, this happened at a time when emotions were running high, so I felt it was best to ignore it. Hi Bath Gas - search functionality looks like it's working OK Your first posting on the forum appears to be July 30th, 2021. It looks like there was a bit of a spat between yourself, TTWD and Shoveller. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't find anyone calling you "vile". TTWD said: "You've mustered sufficient concentration be be selective about which part of my post you quoted I see. How about quoting the entire thing or you may appear to be somewhat disingenuous". You said: "Unbelievable, an absolutely vile thing to say. I'm just hoping that the moderators are more up to date, and have some moral standards". Note to self: Must get out more. Need to check my moral standards. I like you Bath, and I miss TTWD. Sad though that TWD in his various guises was involved so much in such spats (at the same time I recognise my own need to moderate my language in debate)
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baselswh
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Post by baselswh on Feb 16, 2023 20:14:16 GMT
Yep,we see some selective stats being posted. As per my earlier message to you Bas. Why don't you put together some of your own 'selective stats' and share your Barton worshipping conclusions with us? Thanks in advance. I think most know full well that there is so much more to professional football than statistics.
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Post by Bath Gas on Feb 16, 2023 20:17:51 GMT
It was ages ago, it was describing one of my posts. If I felt strongly about something, I would report it, this happened at a time when emotions were running high, so I felt it was best to ignore it. Hi Bath Gas - search functionality looks like it's working OK Your first posting on the forum appears to be July 30th, 2021. It looks like there was a bit of a spat between yourself, TTWD and Shoveller. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't find anyone calling you "vile". TTWD said: "You've mustered sufficient concentration be be selective about which part of my post you quoted I see. How about quoting the entire thing or you may appear to be somewhat disingenuous". You said: "Unbelievable, an absolutely vile thing to say. I'm just hoping that the moderators are more up to date, and have some moral standards". Note to self: Must get out more. Need to check my moral standards. I like you Bath, and I miss TTWD. I believe that your moral standards were shown to be in working order! It wasn't a response to one of my posts, but was obviously referencing one of them - it feels more temperate on here these days (imho).
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Feb 16, 2023 23:15:39 GMT
It was just another example of our owner not really knowing what to do and being surrounded by people who first looked after themselves, before the club. The entire blueprint, so i am told, was the owners thought and the talk of DNA and the like was also something he was keen on BUT, it was completely the wrong time to implement it. I know it’s easy for me to say but to have undermined GC by having Garner attend games was silly at best and downright rude at worst. I would have hoped we would be past talking about it but it rears it’s head, each time we do not perform and the pathological hatred towards Garner is beyond anything i cold believe of true Rovers supporters. He was given a brief of bringing in youth, developing them and selling them on, his budget and salary was not anywhere near high. One could say he was doomed to fail, the real question is why then, why, when we were flying high ? Ah well, time to let go, if only some would allow it It wasn't a bad idea in itself, just that as per standard BRFC modus operandii we executed it badly. Agree about timing too - to do it all or nothing mid season when we were flying high was unforgiveable in my eyes. All the momentum GC had built up was lost almost overnight. We were fortunate that GC had secured us enough points by that time to be safe from being dragged into a relegation dogfight. I also don't hate Benny (as much as I don't hate Barton). I just don't think he was a very good manager. His record at Swindon (did well initially but wheels were starting to fall off) and Charlton (couldn't get rid of quick enough at the end) since then doesn't leave me losing any sleep that I might have judged him harshly. it might have worked better if we had done it more gradually - grow the players, bed them in bit by bit around the nucleus of the team who were at that point punching well above their collective weight. I do raise it from time to time more for comparison (with other managers) purposes, or to illustrate the point that our owner has made some really poor recruitment decisions and I think this is valid. I can't erase though the memory of the particularly dire and depressing home defeat against Doncaster where Benny set us up in a narrow 4 - 1 - 2 - 1 -2 and he had the likes of Sercombe, Hargraves etc chasing shadows as Donny simply passed their way around and through us like they were Man City on drugs. That game in particular confirmed to me that he really didn't have a scooby what he was doing. Tisdale came across as having a bit of bloody minded attitude about him. Yet again though he smelt the coffee straight after a window he felt stitched up in, as Cocko smelt the coffee just before a window he felt would be stitched up in. One thing Barton did was win the politics war and get the transfer control a manager actually needs. Hope our President has learnt the lesson from this period. I use the phrase “smell the coffee” thinking about Holloway book. He asked Penny for the reason for quitting his role and the answer came “smell the coffee mate.” {you know me, no pun intended} whilst Rovers played at Fulham our Chairman was selling our best player to them, sat next to Holloway on coach back without even mentioning it. when we have opinions about our managers and their records, we are probably not privy to all the politics that went on behind the scenes making it difficult for them, and doesn’t come across in any selective stats about them or strong opinions we have. Martin Dobson being another example, of an appalling record, yet inheriting an almighty ruckus and falling out among the players over money.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2023 23:59:24 GMT
My goodness, me; this thread won't die until The Barton era ends for good or ill.
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baselswh
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 6,319
Member is Online
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Post by baselswh on Feb 17, 2023 7:33:15 GMT
It wasn't a bad idea in itself, just that as per standard BRFC modus operandii we executed it badly. Agree about timing too - to do it all or nothing mid season when we were flying high was unforgiveable in my eyes. All the momentum GC had built up was lost almost overnight. We were fortunate that GC had secured us enough points by that time to be safe from being dragged into a relegation dogfight. I also don't hate Benny (as much as I don't hate Barton). I just don't think he was a very good manager. His record at Swindon (did well initially but wheels were starting to fall off) and Charlton (couldn't get rid of quick enough at the end) since then doesn't leave me losing any sleep that I might have judged him harshly. it might have worked better if we had done it more gradually - grow the players, bed them in bit by bit around the nucleus of the team who were at that point punching well above their collective weight. I do raise it from time to time more for comparison (with other managers) purposes, or to illustrate the point that our owner has made some really poor recruitment decisions and I think this is valid. I can't erase though the memory of the particularly dire and depressing home defeat against Doncaster where Benny set us up in a narrow 4 - 1 - 2 - 1 -2 and he had the likes of Sercombe, Hargraves etc chasing shadows as Donny simply passed their way around and through us like they were Man City on drugs. That game in particular confirmed to me that he really didn't have a scooby what he was doing. Tisdale came across as having a bit of bloody minded attitude about him. Yet again though he smelt the coffee straight after a window he felt stitched up in, as Cocko smelt the coffee just before a window he felt would be stitched up in. One thing Barton did was win the politics war and get the transfer control a manager actually needs. Hope our President has learnt the lesson from this period. I use the phrase “smell the coffee” thinking about Holloway book. He asked Penny for the reason for quitting his role and the answer came “smell the coffee mate.” {you know me, no pun intended} whilst Rovers played at Fulham our Chairman was selling our best player to them, sat next to Holloway on coach back without even mentioning it. when we have opinions about our managers and their records, we are probably not privy to all the politics that went on behind the scenes making it difficult for them, and doesn’t come across in any selective stats about them or strong opinions we have. Martin Dobson being another example, of an appalling record, yet inheriting an almighty ruckus and falling out among the players over money. WAQ hiring JB good. Giving Joe much power, excellent. A 'new' Bristol Rovers.
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Post by alftupper on Feb 17, 2023 7:34:30 GMT
My goodness, me; this thread won't die until The Barton era ends for good or ill. The thread is starting to feel like Hotel California. You can check out, but you can never leave.
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Post by fatherjackhackett on Feb 17, 2023 9:37:13 GMT
Hands up all those who have changed their minds since the start of this thread, or indeed the start of the Barton era?
Just me and the dear departed Dr F then? Both sides are so entrenched in their positions it’s just ridiculous. One person can get rid of Barton, and as he has been transfixed by JB it ain’t going to happen any time soon. So it’s all just Willy waving really.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Feb 17, 2023 10:16:22 GMT
Not hand up here because Barton has only taken us back to where we were when he started..
Untill we are bone fide contesting for promotion and play offs - as back in GC era - I won't be thoroughly convinced about his tenure here and remain objective and relatively neutral.
If we don't achieve this, I guess his managerial status will have a sell by date at some point.
For better or worse, there's things I think he gets nailed on (most of his signings), things he needs to work on (his public hanging of players and staff) and some a bit of both (game management seeing out matches etc).
I'm not going to comment on his life away from Bristol Rovers because that's where the entrenchment primarily lies with some.
...but up until now, 2 years on, we've had some amazing days, some gowdawful ones, but ultimately we are mid table 3rd division competing, but in debt.. Nothing remarkable.
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