Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2021 21:48:03 GMT
Good to hear from you John. I have direct experience working with violent criminals also, perhaps more directly, by the sounds of it. I don't think any of us want to stop Joey Barton seeking employment, or being successful in so doing. But manager of Bristol Rovers Football Club is not just a job of employment, it is a huge privilege, of a sort of public office, as a representative and leader of a sporting club we all follow and take our children to.
Forgiveness is to your credit, but Barton does not want forgiveness, as he is not remotely sorry for any of his violent crimes. He dines out on them, and his cult following lap it up. I don't include you in that.
I would not wish unemployment on anyone, Barton included. But the JSA claimants you served did not have the opportunities, privilege, or wealth that Barton benefits from. Ordinary workers unemployed at this awful time have it so hard right now. I hope the economy bounces back and employs them all after this virus is beaten by mass vaccination as soon as possible, please. But my sympathy lies with them, not with a man for whom violence is a repeated, unforced, free choice.
I hope Barton is successful in his next job of work, obviously something not requiring any DBS (formerly CRB) checks, which perhaps BRFC should better consider.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2021 22:14:07 GMT
I see, so violent yob helps old Lady across road and all is forgiven.
I may have missed it somewhere, but as far as I'm aware everybody hopes he's learned and matured and never offends again, it's the appalling association that people object to.
If we gave him a job stamping divots at half time, or painting the stands, that would be cool, it's that he's been handed the position that makes him the public face of our club. That's not only humiliating, it also rewards his bad behaviour, as a manager he's achieved nothing, he's been employed due to his profile, and that's buoyed by notoriety.
Hope things are good at your end.
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Post by johnmalyckyj on Feb 28, 2021 22:36:28 GMT
Good to hear from you John. I have direct experience working with violent criminals also, perhaps more directly, by the sounds of it. I don't think any of us want to stop Joey Barton seeking employment, or being successful in so doing. But manager of Bristol Rovers Football Club is not just a job of employment, it is a huge privilege, of a sort of public office, as a representative and leader of a sporting club we all follow and take our children to. Forgiveness is to your credit, b ut Barton does not want forgiveness, as he is not remotely sorry for any of his violent crimes. He dines out on them, and his cult following lap it up. I don't include you in that.I would not wish unemployment on anyone, Barton included. But the JSA claimants you served did not have the opportunities, privilege, or wealth that Barton benefits from. Ordinary workers unemployed at this awful time have it so hard right now. I hope the economy bounces back and employs them all after this virus is beaten by mass vaccination as soon as possible, please. But my sympathy lies with them, not with a man for whom violence is a repeated, unforced, free choice. I hope Barton is successful in his next job of work, obviously something not requiring any DBS (formerly CRB) checks, which perhaps BRFC should better consider. Given your role, I am surprised that you have taken the stance you have. Bristol Rovers Football Club is an employer, the role of manager is one that needs to be filled. I am not forgiving anyone, I am merely stating what I consider to be the facts of the matter. I had to work with people and understand fully their backgrounds before I could take them forwards and sometimes that was incredibly difficult, but if they had served their time then that was it. In those days we would liaise with the Probation Service as some job seekers were precluded from certain employment, for reasons that you will be aware of. I am not sure that you can be certain that "Barton doesn't want forgiveness", as we are back in the territory of people making assumptions about the intentions of the Al Qadi family without very clear evidence to back it up. As I say to the people who I now employ with my wife in our business, "we are not here to make friends we are here to make money, if we don't make money we are all out of work". (All our employees have to be DBS checked) The role of a football manager is to organise the team to win matches. That is what most supporters want and the morals or political views of the manager are an irrelevance to most. It doesn't matter if people "like" the manager or not. I fundamentally disagreed with the direction of the previous owner of the Football Club and called him to account at each AGM (and he really didn't like it), but I never stopped supporting the team. I could see what was happening and kept my counsel when people were falling over backwards to support the UWE folly. It was a waste of mental energy to fight a battle that couldn't be won. I have been covering matches for Hospital Radio this season and something had to change, watching in the flesh has been a strange experience and I pretty sure that Garnerball would have finished much earlier than was the case if there had been a crowd in. Tisdale was unfortunate because of the Covid-19 outbreak, but he clearly lost the plot towards the end. Is Barton the answer, I don't know? Recruitment is not an exact science and we were not party to it. Regards John Malyckyj
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Post by johnmalyckyj on Feb 28, 2021 22:37:58 GMT
I see, so violent yob helps old Lady across road and all is forgiven. I may have missed it somewhere, but as far as I'm aware everybody hopes he's learned and matured and never offends again, it's the appalling association that people object to. If we gave him a job stamping divots at half time, or painting the stands, that would be cool, it's that he's been handed the position that makes him the public face of our club. That's not only humiliating, it also rewards his bad behaviour, as a manager he's achieved nothing, he's been employed due to his profile, and that's buoyed by notoriety. Hope things are good at your end. Thank you for your views. Regards John Malyckyj
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2021 22:51:54 GMT
I see, so violent yob helps old Lady across road and all is forgiven. I may have missed it somewhere, but as far as I'm aware everybody hopes he's learned and matured and never offends again, it's the appalling association that people object to. If we gave him a job stamping divots at half time, or painting the stands, that would be cool, it's that he's been handed the position that makes him the public face of our club. That's not only humiliating, it also rewards his bad behaviour, as a manager he's achieved nothing, he's been employed due to his profile, and that's buoyed by notoriety. Hope things are good at your end. Thank you for your views. Regards John Malyckyj Stop interrupting me, am watching the Trump CPAC 2021 live stream on YouTube, you'll catch the last few mins if you are quick.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Feb 28, 2021 23:01:42 GMT
If it hadn’t been for Wael and his millions generously sunk into Rovers without hope of return we would all have woken up and smelt the coffee of Rovers extinction several years ago. Still don’t let your high-horse moralising get in the way of your hurt feelings. Rather a nice gesture of the vicious, violent thug to dedicate yesterday’s win to a recently deceased life long supporter. I expect you’d much rather he had kicked the interviewer in the nuts, put him on the ground and given his head a good shoeing whilst screaming ‘You b****** snowflake, why don’t you grow a pair and man up’ to reinforce your perception of him. In the 1990s I worked in what was then Job Centre Plus. Between 1993 I was based at Easton Job Centre, my role was to advise people who were newly unemployed and then latterly those who had been claiming benefits for what was regarded as "long term". In order to do my job I had to leave my own moral compass at the door. Later on I became a trainer and ran courses largely teaching people soft skills, often dealing with complex moral dilemmas, which those working with people with a myriad of deep, complex problems had to grapple with. In a typical day in Easton Job Centre, I could deal with a murderer fresh out of prison on a life tariff, a drug addict who was content to remain on drugs for the rest of his life, a refugee escaping conflict (meeting traumatised Kosovans is an experience I will never forget), a person who had worked all their life suddenly unemployed by reason of redundancy, petty criminals who were in and out of prison, women who had never worked who suddenly found themselves in the labour market by way of marriage breakdown, people who didn't want to work and were content to claim benefits as long as they could, I could be threatened simply because I asked someone what they had done to look for work. I saw it all, I heard every story that you wouldn't want to repeat to your family. I used to walk home to empty my head of the s*** I had uploaded during the day. During that period I became involved in Rovers Supporters Club as a form of release..... I have never forgotten dealing with those people, because no matter what their back story was you had to push your own opinion to the back of your head and help them to find work, no matter what they had done leading them to walk through our doors. No-one was un-employable, because when they were sat in front of me somehow I might need to persuade an employer that they had served their time (if that was the case) and now was the time to give them a chance. There are some streams of employment that are clearly governed by legislation where a criminal record means that an individual may be precluded from seeking employment. I don't think that professional football is governed by such a restriction. Joey Barton has a court case pending, he has previous criminal convictions, now discharged. If we extended the view of some contributors to every walk of life no-one with a criminal record would ever work again. Yesterday I heard Barton's post match interview and stopped in my tracks when I heard him mention Brian Williams recent passing (Gasincider in the other place), I thought it was a wonderful thing to do. It was the first time a Rovers manager since Darrell Clarke has demonstrated that he understood what the club means to its supporters. I'll leave it that. Regards John Malyckyj Yours is actually a simplistic view of a more nuanced situation. It may be professional to treat equal and fair everyone who came through the doors of your jobcentre/signing office. But it will be naive to think they are all good people, and not a mix of good and bad. There is such a thing as wrong uns. I’m sorry if this sounds hard, but we all need to protect ourselves more than that in this world. Which is why I am warning you, you got this guy wrong, you are taking too much of a risk, don’t do it. Barton has got this job, is saying the right things about Brian Williams, because he is going to be up in court - don’t be the young lady charmed into bed by a cad who then disappears from her life. Don’t think all villains in this world are thick, More the half probably just as devious and clever as Barton. it’s also interesting debate if he was convicted of rape tomorrow our club will definitely sack him, as should every employer. But when he comes out of prison someone else will sign him. That’s hardly standing beside victims? You can hardly squeeze bad behaviour out of society by refusing the vaccination that stamps it out. Clearly when it comes to football, morals do go out the window - it just shows the tribal aspect of your team winning games for too many actually overrides the societal aspects of decent behaviour. Football fans stupidly short termist, can’t take bigger or long term view. But the point is, that is not the point. We are not moralising, we are reasoning. the point of your post is we shouldn’t moralise. But to explain the club has lost its way, hiring a thug to save us from relegation is not the answer, to explain it needs a bigger reset and long term plan than this is reasoning not moralising. in a zoom call tonight one of my gas head mates said along he keeps us up I don’t care if he wears swastikas and supports fascists politicians. I countered it needs a long term plan and a manager and coaches to look after and develop all these young players, if we could put that in place I am more than happy to see us relegated to L2. Because that is more important than this relegation fight. It’s much more important right now to stop thrashing around for something to temporarily alleviate the symptoms, we need to deal with the sickness at our club. Barton is nothing, just a mere symptom. The clueless, valueless, planless owner, board and executives are the sickness.
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Post by johnmalyckyj on Feb 28, 2021 23:14:10 GMT
In the 1990s I worked in what was then Job Centre Plus. Between 1993 I was based at Easton Job Centre, my role was to advise people who were newly unemployed and then latterly those who had been claiming benefits for what was regarded as "long term". In order to do my job I had to leave my own moral compass at the door. Later on I became a trainer and ran courses largely teaching people soft skills, often dealing with complex moral dilemmas, which those working with people with a myriad of deep, complex problems had to grapple with. In a typical day in Easton Job Centre, I could deal with a murderer fresh out of prison on a life tariff, a drug addict who was content to remain on drugs for the rest of his life, a refugee escaping conflict (meeting traumatised Kosovans is an experience I will never forget), a person who had worked all their life suddenly unemployed by reason of redundancy, petty criminals who were in and out of prison, women who had never worked who suddenly found themselves in the labour market by way of marriage breakdown, people who didn't want to work and were content to claim benefits as long as they could, I could be threatened simply because I asked someone what they had done to look for work. I saw it all, I heard every story that you wouldn't want to repeat to your family. I used to walk home to empty my head of the s*** I had uploaded during the day. During that period I became involved in Rovers Supporters Club as a form of release..... I have never forgotten dealing with those people, because no matter what their back story was you had to push your own opinion to the back of your head and help them to find work, no matter what they had done leading them to walk through our doors. No-one was un-employable, because when they were sat in front of me somehow I might need to persuade an employer that they had served their time (if that was the case) and now was the time to give them a chance. There are some streams of employment that are clearly governed by legislation where a criminal record means that an individual may be precluded from seeking employment. I don't think that professional football is governed by such a restriction. Joey Barton has a court case pending, he has previous criminal convictions, now discharged. If we extended the view of some contributors to every walk of life no-one with a criminal record would ever work again. Yesterday I heard Barton's post match interview and stopped in my tracks when I heard him mention Brian Williams recent passing (Gasincider in the other place), I thought it was a wonderful thing to do. It was the first time a Rovers manager since Darrell Clarke has demonstrated that he understood what the club means to its supporters. I'll leave it that. Regards John Malyckyj Yours is actually a simplistic view of a more nuanced situation. It may be professional to treat equal and fair everyone who came through the doors of your jobcentre/signing office. But it will be naive to think they are all good people, and not a mix of good and bad. There is such a thing as wrong uns. I’m sorry if this sounds hard, but we all need to protect ourselves more than that in this world. Which is why I am warning you, you got this guy wrong, you are taking too much of a risk, don’t do it. Barton has got this job, is saying the right things about Brian Williams, because he is going to be up in court - don’t be the young lady charmed into bed by a cad who then disappears from her life. Don’t think all villains in this world are thick, More the half probably just as devious and clever as Barton. it’s also interesting debate if he was convicted of rape tomorrow our club will definitely sack him, as should every employer. But when he comes out of prison someone else will sign him. That’s hardly standing beside victims? You can hardly squeeze bad behaviour out of society by refusing the vaccination that stamps it out. Clearly when it comes to football, morals do go out the window - it just shows the tribal aspect of your team winning games for too many actually overrides the societal aspects of decent behaviour. Football fans stupidly short termist, can’t take bigger or long term view. But the point is, that is not the point. We are not moralising, we are reasoning. the point of your post is we shouldn’t moralise. But to explain the club has lost its way, hiring a thug to save us from relegation is not the answer, to explain it needs a bigger reset and long term plan than this is reasoning not moralising. in a zoom call tonight one of my gas head mates said along he keeps us up I don’t care if he wears swastikas and supports fascists politicians. I countered it needs a long term plan and a manager and coaches to look after and develop all these young players, if we could put that in place I am more than happy to see us relegated to L2. Because that is more important than this relegation fight. It’s much more important right now to stop thrashing around for something to temporarily alleviate the symptoms, we need to deal with the sickness at our club. Barton is nothing, just a mere symptom. The clueless, valueless, planless owner, board and executives are the sickness. I absolutely did not say that all the people I dealt with were all "good people", plainly they were not. That was my point. If I had thought about my own morals or view of life I wouldn't have dealt with half of them! Regards John Malyckyj
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Post by swissgas on Feb 28, 2021 23:16:56 GMT
Good to hear from you John. I have direct experience working with violent criminals also, perhaps more directly, by the sounds of it. I don't think any of us want to stop Joey Barton seeking employment, or being successful in so doing. But manager of Bristol Rovers Football Club is not just a job of employment, it is a huge privilege, of a sort of public office, as a representative and leader of a sporting club we all follow and take our children to. Forgiveness is to your credit, b ut Barton does not want forgiveness, as he is not remotely sorry for any of his violent crimes. He dines out on them, and his cult following lap it up. I don't include you in that.I would not wish unemployment on anyone, Barton included. But the JSA claimants you served did not have the opportunities, privilege, or wealth that Barton benefits from. Ordinary workers unemployed at this awful time have it so hard right now. I hope the economy bounces back and employs them all after this virus is beaten by mass vaccination as soon as possible, please. But my sympathy lies with them, not with a man for whom violence is a repeated, unforced, free choice. I hope Barton is successful in his next job of work, obviously something not requiring any DBS (formerly CRB) checks, which perhaps BRFC should better consider. Given your role, I am surprised that you have taken the stance you have. Bristol Rovers Football Club is an employer, the role of manager is one that needs to be filled. I am not forgiving anyone, I am merely stating what I consider to be the facts of the matter. I had to work with people and understand fully their backgrounds before I could take them forwards and sometimes that was incredibly difficult, but if they had served their time then that was it. In those days we would liaise with the Probation Service as some job seekers were precluded from certain employment, for reasons that you will be aware of. I am not sure that you can be certain that "Barton doesn't want forgiveness", as we are back in the territory of people making assumptions about the intentions of the Al Qadi family without very clear evidence to back it up. As I say to the people who I now employ with my wife in our business, "we are not hear to make friends we are here to make money, if we don't make money we are all out of work". (All our employees have to be DBS checked) The role of a football manager is to organise the team to win matches. That is what most supporters want and the morals or political views of the manager are an irrelevance to most. It doesn't matter if people "like" the manager or not. I fundamentally disagreed with the direction of the previous owner of the Football Club and called him to account at each AGM (and he really didn't like it), but I never stopped supporting the team. I could see what was happening and kept my counsel when people were falling over backwards to support the UWE folly. It was a waste of mental energy to fight a battle that couldn't be won. I have been covering matches for Hospital Radio this season and something had to change, watching in the flesh has been a strange experience and I pretty sure that Garnerball would have finished much earlier than was the case if there had been a crowd in. Tisdale was unfortunate because of the Covid-19 outbreak, but he clearly lost the plot towards the end. Is Barton the answer, I don't know? Recruitment is not an exact science and we were not party to it. Regards John Malyckyj The main thing I disagreed with during the previous regime was the attitude of “you are either with us or against us” and the meanness of the campaign against any dissenters which emanated right from the top. My belief is that any organization which is confident of what it is doing will be happy to meet criticism with counter argument and will put its case forward strongly not retreat into a shell and have its supporters attack anyone who asks questions or offers a different opinion. Joey Barton knows his football and can express himself in an articulate and persuasive manner. He is using Rovers as a platform to achieve personal goals which obviously, at the present time, extend far beyond his career as a football manager. But I’m afraid the Rovers hierarchy are now also using him as a stick to beat the section of supporters which disapprove of the appointment because of his violent background. The reason being that this appointment, and the way it has been handled, has opened the eyes of many fans who can now see the leadership of the club is in complete disarray. They have retreated into a shell, and Joey is doing the talking for them, but will a deliberately fractured fan base be of much help to Rovers when the issue which we dare not speak about finally comes to a head ?
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towngas
Joined: February 2021
Posts: 566
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Post by towngas on Feb 28, 2021 23:22:00 GMT
If it hadn’t been for Wael and his millions generously sunk into Rovers without hope of return we would all have woken up and smelt the coffee of Rovers extinction several years ago. Still don’t let your high-horse moralising get in the way of your hurt feelings. Rather a nice gesture of the vicious, violent thug to dedicate yesterday’s win to a recently deceased life long supporter. I expect you’d much rather he had kicked the interviewer in the nuts, put him on the ground and given his head a good shoeing whilst screaming ‘You b****** snowflake, why don’t you grow a pair and man up’ to reinforce your perception of him. In the 1990s I worked in what was then Job Centre Plus. Between 1993 and 2000 I was based at Easton Job Centre, my role was to advise people who were newly unemployed and then latterly those who had been claiming benefits for what was regarded as "long term". In order to do my job I had to leave my own moral compass at the door. Later on I became a trainer and ran courses largely teaching people soft skills, often dealing with complex moral dilemmas, which those working with people with a myriad of deep, complex problems had to grapple with. In a typical day in Easton Job Centre, I could deal with a murderer fresh out of prison on a life tariff, a drug addict who was content to remain on drugs for the rest of his life, a refugee escaping conflict (meeting traumatised Kosovans is an experience I will never forget), a person who had worked all their life suddenly unemployed by reason of redundancy, petty criminals who were in and out of prison, women who had never worked who suddenly found themselves in the labour market by way of marriage breakdown, people who didn't want to work and were content to claim benefits as long as they could, I could be threatened simply because I asked someone what they had done to look for work. I saw it all, I heard every story that you wouldn't want to repeat to your family. I used to walk home to empty my head of the s*** I had uploaded during the day. During that period I became involved in Rovers Supporters Club as a form of release..... I have never forgotten dealing with those people, because no matter what their back story was you had to push your own opinion to the back of your head and help them to find work, no matter what they had done leading them to walk through our doors. No-one was un-employable, because when they were sat in front of me somehow I might need to persuade an employer that they had served their time (if that was the case) and now was the time to give them a chance. There are some streams of employment that are clearly governed by legislation where a criminal record means that an individual may be precluded from seeking employment. I don't think that professional football is governed by such a restriction. Joey Barton has a court case pending, he has previous criminal convictions, now discharged. If we extended the view of some contributors to every walk of life no-one with a criminal record would ever work again. Yesterday I heard Barton's post match interview and stopped in my tracks when I heard him mention Brian Williams recent passing (Gasincider in the other place), I thought it was a wonderful thing to do. It was the first time a Rovers manager since Darrell Clarke has demonstrated that he understood what the club means to its supporters. I'll leave it that. Regards John Malyckyj You’ve got it all wrong; the Moral Crusaders, fresh from slaying dragons have decreed that Barton’s dedication to Brian Williams is all a ploy to influence the jury at his forthcoming trial, of which the kangarooists on here have already decided the outcome.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2021 23:42:08 GMT
In the 1990s I worked in what was then Job Centre Plus. Between 1993 and 2000 I was based at Easton Job Centre, my role was to advise people who were newly unemployed and then latterly those who had been claiming benefits for what was regarded as "long term". In order to do my job I had to leave my own moral compass at the door. Later on I became a trainer and ran courses largely teaching people soft skills, often dealing with complex moral dilemmas, which those working with people with a myriad of deep, complex problems had to grapple with. In a typical day in Easton Job Centre, I could deal with a murderer fresh out of prison on a life tariff, a drug addict who was content to remain on drugs for the rest of his life, a refugee escaping conflict (meeting traumatised Kosovans is an experience I will never forget), a person who had worked all their life suddenly unemployed by reason of redundancy, petty criminals who were in and out of prison, women who had never worked who suddenly found themselves in the labour market by way of marriage breakdown, people who didn't want to work and were content to claim benefits as long as they could, I could be threatened simply because I asked someone what they had done to look for work. I saw it all, I heard every story that you wouldn't want to repeat to your family. I used to walk home to empty my head of the s*** I had uploaded during the day. During that period I became involved in Rovers Supporters Club as a form of release..... I have never forgotten dealing with those people, because no matter what their back story was you had to push your own opinion to the back of your head and help them to find work, no matter what they had done leading them to walk through our doors. No-one was un-employable, because when they were sat in front of me somehow I might need to persuade an employer that they had served their time (if that was the case) and now was the time to give them a chance. There are some streams of employment that are clearly governed by legislation where a criminal record means that an individual may be precluded from seeking employment. I don't think that professional football is governed by such a restriction. Joey Barton has a court case pending, he has previous criminal convictions, now discharged. If we extended the view of some contributors to every walk of life no-one with a criminal record would ever work again. Yesterday I heard Barton's post match interview and stopped in my tracks when I heard him mention Brian Williams recent passing (Gasincider in the other place), I thought it was a wonderful thing to do. It was the first time a Rovers manager since Darrell Clarke has demonstrated that he understood what the club means to its supporters. I'll leave it that. Regards John Malyckyj You’ve got it all wrong; the Moral Crusaders, fresh from slaying dragons have decreed that Barton’s dedication to Brian Williams is all a ploy to influence the jury at his forthcoming trial, of which the kangarooists on here have already decided the outcome. Pedant’s note: it’s nothing to do with the jury. Have you read the sentencing guidelines? IF Barton is found guilty (from the tone of the EFL head who is privy to some of the witness claims it sounds like there is a solid case) his previous bad character in the eyes of the law puts a custodial sentence very much on the table for a charge of ABH. A key part of the mitigation for a custodial sentence is repentance. As such I’m sure Joey’s defence team would be at pains to point out to the judge that he has shown exemplary character since which has suitably won over customers and stakeholders at his new place of employment. It’s basic PR and Barton more than most will have been well briefed on that score. Yes, he’s going above and beyond the call of duty more than most managers do and in some ways that’s to be applauded but then the likes of Tisdale never had an impending court case with a possible custodial sentence over their head so it’s swings and roundabouts.
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towngas
Joined: February 2021
Posts: 566
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Post by towngas on Feb 28, 2021 23:47:35 GMT
Given your role, I am surprised that you have taken the stance you have. Bristol Rovers Football Club is an employer, the role of manager is one that needs to be filled. I am not forgiving anyone, I am merely stating what I consider to be the facts of the matter. I had to work with people and understand fully their backgrounds before I could take them forwards and sometimes that was incredibly difficult, but if they had served their time then that was it. In those days we would liaise with the Probation Service as some job seekers were precluded from certain employment, for reasons that you will be aware of. I am not sure that you can be certain that "Barton doesn't want forgiveness", as we are back in the territory of people making assumptions about the intentions of the Al Qadi family without very clear evidence to back it up. As I say to the people who I now employ with my wife in our business, "we are not hear to make friends we are here to make money, if we don't make money we are all out of work". (All our employees have to be DBS checked) The role of a football manager is to organise the team to win matches. That is what most supporters want and the morals or political views of the manager are an irrelevance to most. It doesn't matter if people "like" the manager or not. I fundamentally disagreed with the direction of the previous owner of the Football Club and called him to account at each AGM (and he really didn't like it), but I never stopped supporting the team. I could see what was happening and kept my counsel when people were falling over backwards to support the UWE folly. It was a waste of mental energy to fight a battle that couldn't be won. I have been covering matches for Hospital Radio this season and something had to change, watching in the flesh has been a strange experience and I pretty sure that Garnerball would have finished much earlier than was the case if there had been a crowd in. Tisdale was unfortunate because of the Covid-19 outbreak, but he clearly lost the plot towards the end. Is Barton the answer, I don't know? Recruitment is not an exact science and we were not party to it. Regards John Malyckyj The main thing I disagreed with during the previous regime was the attitude of “you are either with us or against us” and the meanness of the campaign against any dissenters which emanated right from the top. My belief is that any organization which is confident of what it is doing will be happy to meet criticism with counter argument and will put its case forward strongly not retreat into a shell and have its supporters attack anyone who asks questions or offers a different opinion. Joey Barton knows his football and can express himself in an articulate and persuasive manner. He is using Rovers as a platform to achieve personal goals which obviously, at the present time, extend far beyond his career as a football manager. But I’m afraid the Rovers hierarchy are now also using him as a stick to beat the section of supporters which disapprove of the appointment because of his violent background. The reason being that this appointment, and the way it has been handled, has opened the eyes of many fans who can now see the leadership of the club is in complete disarray. They have retreated into a shell, and Joey is doing the talking for them, but will a deliberately fractured fan base be of much help to Rovers when the issue which we dare not speak about finally comes to a head ? I disagree. The Rovers board have employed the person they think will get us out of this awful mess created by his two predecessors. I doubt very much the powers that be will lose much sleep if a few people decide they can no longer support the club. Staying in League 1 will generate an awful lot more cash than a few dozen outraged Mr Angrys withholding their support. After all, there’s no money coming through the turnstiles. There seems to be an awful lot of people who have forgotten that WAQ is keeping this club going solely with his money. And they want him gone. Gratitude, such gratitude.
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Post by a more piratey game on Mar 1, 2021 0:03:42 GMT
If it hadn’t been for Wael and his millions generously sunk into Rovers without hope of return we would all have woken up and smelt the coffee of Rovers extinction several years ago. Still don’t let your high-horse moralising get in the way of your hurt feelings. Rather a nice gesture of the vicious, violent thug to dedicate yesterday’s win to a recently deceased life long supporter. I expect you’d much rather he had kicked the interviewer in the nuts, put him on the ground and given his head a good shoeing whilst screaming ‘You b****** snowflake, why don’t you grow a pair and man up’ to reinforce your perception of him. In the 1990s I worked in what was then Job Centre Plus. Between 1993 and 2000 I was based at Easton Job Centre, my role was to advise people who were newly unemployed and then latterly those who had been claiming benefits for what was regarded as "long term". In order to do my job I had to leave my own moral compass at the door. Later on I became a trainer and ran courses largely teaching people soft skills, often dealing with complex moral dilemmas, which those working with people with a myriad of deep, complex problems had to grapple with. In a typical day in Easton Job Centre, I could deal with a murderer fresh out of prison on a life tariff, a drug addict who was content to remain on drugs for the rest of his life, a refugee escaping conflict (meeting traumatised Kosovans is an experience I will never forget), a person who had worked all their life suddenly unemployed by reason of redundancy, petty criminals who were in and out of prison, women who had never worked who suddenly found themselves in the labour market by way of marriage breakdown, people who didn't want to work and were content to claim benefits as long as they could, I could be threatened simply because I asked someone what they had done to look for work. I saw it all, I heard every story that you wouldn't want to repeat to your family. I used to walk home to empty my head of the s*** I had uploaded during the day. During that period I became involved in Rovers Supporters Club as a form of release..... . That last bit :-)
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Mar 1, 2021 0:03:44 GMT
Good to hear from you John. I have direct experience working with violent criminals also, perhaps more directly, by the sounds of it. I don't think any of us want to stop Joey Barton seeking employment, or being successful in so doing. But manager of Bristol Rovers Football Club is not just a job of employment, it is a huge privilege, of a sort of public office, as a representative and leader of a sporting club we all follow and take our children to. Forgiveness is to your credit, b ut Barton does not want forgiveness, as he is not remotely sorry for any of his violent crimes. He dines out on them, and his cult following lap it up. I don't include you in that.I would not wish unemployment on anyone, Barton included. But the JSA claimants you served did not have the opportunities, privilege, or wealth that Barton benefits from. Ordinary workers unemployed at this awful time have it so hard right now. I hope the economy bounces back and employs them all after this virus is beaten by mass vaccination as soon as possible, please. But my sympathy lies with them, not with a man for whom violence is a repeated, unforced, free choice. I hope Barton is successful in his next job of work, obviously something not requiring any DBS (formerly CRB) checks, which perhaps BRFC should better consider. Given your role, I am surprised that you have taken the stance you have. Bristol Rovers Football Club is an employer, the role of manager is one that needs to be filled. I am not forgiving anyone, I am merely stating what I consider to be the facts of the matter. I had to work with people and understand fully their backgrounds before I could take them forwards and sometimes that was incredibly difficult, but if they had served their time then that was it. In those days we would liaise with the Probation Service as some job seekers were precluded from certain employment, for reasons that you will be aware of. I am not sure that you can be certain that "Barton doesn't want forgiveness", as we are back in the territory of people making assumptions about the intentions of the Al Qadi family without very clear evidence to back it up. As I say to the people who I now employ with my wife in our business, "we are not hear to make friends we are here to make money, if we don't make money we are all out of work". (All our employees have to be DBS checked) The role of a football manager is to organise the team to win matches. That is what most supporters want and the morals or political views of the manager are an irrelevance to most. It doesn't matter if people "like" the manager or not. I fundamentally disagreed with the direction of the previous owner of the Football Club and called him to account at each AGM (and he really didn't like it), but I never stopped supporting the team. I could see what was happening and kept my counsel when people were falling over backwards to support the UWE folly. It was a waste of mental energy to fight a battle that couldn't be won. I have been covering matches for Hospital Radio this season and something had to change, watching in the flesh has been a strange experience and I pretty sure that Garnerball would have finished much earlier than was the case if there had been a crowd in. Tisdale was unfortunate because of the Covid-19 outbreak, but he clearly lost the plot towards the end. Is Barton the answer, I don't know? Recruitment is not an exact science and we were not party to it. Regards John Malyckyj “the morals or political views of the manager are an irrelevance to most supporters”. why? Football clubs are a great institution and do a lot for their community. Being a manager is a very public profile job. It’s not like any other job a reformed and apologetic jailbird can be considered for. It’s not just about keeping teams up “so let’s just forget everything if he does that”. Just like political parties, and society in general, football clubs need to be careful they promote the right values, these are tolerance and respect in politics and society in general, tolerance and respect to the laws governing the land and its inhabitants, with clear lines and to react when those lines are crossed. THIS ISN’T MORALISING. THIS IS BEING PRACTICAL ABOUT IT. Tell me, for example, how does a manager discipline a player for making fascist salute when he makes fascist salutes himself? See? You just cannot believe politics is an irrelevance to this role, when political ideology is so finely woven with racism, antisemitism, and intolerance. Likewise: How does a club sack players who have bet on matches they are involved in, when they hire managers with 18 month ban from football who do that themselves? How do you discipline anyone employed by the club who will beat up 15 year old kids, rather than laugh off a bit of teasing banter, when your leader does this themselves? Etc. Etc. Etc. To say this particular job comes with white Knight standards is not moralising, some fans need to open their eyes to the practicalities and precedents that underwrite the commercial and political transactions of common everyday life.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2021 0:04:28 GMT
In the 1990s I worked in what was then Job Centre Plus. Between 1993 and 2000 I was based at Easton Job Centre, my role was to advise people who were newly unemployed and then latterly those who had been claiming benefits for what was regarded as "long term". In order to do my job I had to leave my own moral compass at the door. Later on I became a trainer and ran courses largely teaching people soft skills, often dealing with complex moral dilemmas, which those working with people with a myriad of deep, complex problems had to grapple with. In a typical day in Easton Job Centre, I could deal with a murderer fresh out of prison on a life tariff, a drug addict who was content to remain on drugs for the rest of his life, a refugee escaping conflict (meeting traumatised Kosovans is an experience I will never forget), a person who had worked all their life suddenly unemployed by reason of redundancy, petty criminals who were in and out of prison, women who had never worked who suddenly found themselves in the labour market by way of marriage breakdown, people who didn't want to work and were content to claim benefits as long as they could, I could be threatened simply because I asked someone what they had done to look for work. I saw it all, I heard every story that you wouldn't want to repeat to your family. I used to walk home to empty my head of the s*** I had uploaded during the day. During that period I became involved in Rovers Supporters Club as a form of release..... I have never forgotten dealing with those people, because no matter what their back story was you had to push your own opinion to the back of your head and help them to find work, no matter what they had done leading them to walk through our doors. No-one was un-employable, because when they were sat in front of me somehow I might need to persuade an employer that they had served their time (if that was the case) and now was the time to give them a chance. There are some streams of employment that are clearly governed by legislation where a criminal record means that an individual may be precluded from seeking employment. I don't think that professional football is governed by such a restriction. Joey Barton has a court case pending, he has previous criminal convictions, now discharged. If we extended the view of some contributors to every walk of life no-one with a criminal record would ever work again. Yesterday I heard Barton's post match interview and stopped in my tracks when I heard him mention Brian Williams recent passing (Gasincider in the other place), I thought it was a wonderful thing to do. It was the first time a Rovers manager since Darrell Clarke has demonstrated that he understood what the club means to its supporters. I'll leave it that. Regards John Malyckyj You’ve got it all wrong; the Moral Crusaders, fresh from slaying dragons have decreed that Barton’s dedication to Brian Williams is all a ploy to influence the jury at his forthcoming trial, of which the kangarooists on here have already decided the outcome. More baiting nonsense. Comments have been made about what evidence there may be, but nobody has presupposed the outcome of the trial, if indeed a trial actually goes ahead.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2021 0:11:02 GMT
Given your role, I am surprised that you have taken the stance you have. Bristol Rovers Football Club is an employer, the role of manager is one that needs to be filled. I am not forgiving anyone, I am merely stating what I consider to be the facts of the matter. I had to work with people and understand fully their backgrounds before I could take them forwards and sometimes that was incredibly difficult, but if they had served their time then that was it. In those days we would liaise with the Probation Service as some job seekers were precluded from certain employment, for reasons that you will be aware of. I am not sure that you can be certain that "Barton doesn't want forgiveness", as we are back in the territory of people making assumptions about the intentions of the Al Qadi family without very clear evidence to back it up. As I say to the people who I now employ with my wife in our business, "we are not hear to make friends we are here to make money, if we don't make money we are all out of work". (All our employees have to be DBS checked) The role of a football manager is to organise the team to win matches. That is what most supporters want and the morals or political views of the manager are an irrelevance to most. It doesn't matter if people "like" the manager or not. I fundamentally disagreed with the direction of the previous owner of the Football Club and called him to account at each AGM (and he really didn't like it), but I never stopped supporting the team. I could see what was happening and kept my counsel when people were falling over backwards to support the UWE folly. It was a waste of mental energy to fight a battle that couldn't be won. I have been covering matches for Hospital Radio this season and something had to change, watching in the flesh has been a strange experience and I pretty sure that Garnerball would have finished much earlier than was the case if there had been a crowd in. Tisdale was unfortunate because of the Covid-19 outbreak, but he clearly lost the plot towards the end. Is Barton the answer, I don't know? Recruitment is not an exact science and we were not party to it. Regards John Malyckyj “the morals or political views of the manager are an irrelevance to most supporters”. why? Football clubs are a great institution and do a lot for their community. Being a manager is a very public profile job. It’s not like any other job a reformed and apologetic jailbird can be considered for. It’s not just about keeping teams up “so let’s just forget everything if he does that”. Just like political parties, and society in general, football clubs need to be careful they promote the right values, these are tolerance and respect in politics and society in general, tolerance and respect to the laws governing the land and its inhabitants, with clear lines and to react when those lines are crossed. THIS ISN’T MORALISING. THIS IS BEING PRACTICAL ABOUT IT. Tell me, for example, how does a manager discipline a player for making fascist salute when he makes fascist salutes himself? See? You just cannot believe politics is an irrelevance to this role, when political ideology is so finely woven with racism, antisemitism, and intolerance. Likewise: How does a club sack players who have bet on matches they are involved in, when they hire managers with 18 month ban from football who do that themselves? How do you discipline anyone employed by the club who will beat up 15 year old kids, rather than laugh off a bit of teasing banter, when your leader does this themselves? Etc. Etc. Etc. To say this particular job comes with white Knight standards is not moralising, some fans need to open their eyes to the practicalities and precedents that underwrite the commercial and political transactions of common everyday life. Exactly. Wonder what storm would land on the head of any manager if he made a mistake and mis-gendered someone, or inadvertently used a term relating to race, or sexual orientation which is now outdated? All Hell would break lose and suddenly morals would quite possibly be very important to some people who have decided it's convenient to ignore Barton's previous conduct. We've backed ourselves unto a ridiculous corner with this appointment.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Mar 1, 2021 0:11:06 GMT
The main thing I disagreed with during the previous regime was the attitude of “you are either with us or against us” and the meanness of the campaign against any dissenters which emanated right from the top. My belief is that any organization which is confident of what it is doing will be happy to meet criticism with counter argument and will put its case forward strongly not retreat into a shell and have its supporters attack anyone who asks questions or offers a different opinion. Joey Barton knows his football and can express himself in an articulate and persuasive manner. He is using Rovers as a platform to achieve personal goals which obviously, at the present time, extend far beyond his career as a football manager. But I’m afraid the Rovers hierarchy are now also using him as a stick to beat the section of supporters which disapprove of the appointment because of his violent background. The reason being that this appointment, and the way it has been handled, has opened the eyes of many fans who can now see the leadership of the club is in complete disarray. They have retreated into a shell, and Joey is doing the talking for them, but will a deliberately fractured fan base be of much help to Rovers when the issue which we dare not speak about finally comes to a head ? I disagree. The Rovers board have employed the person they think will get us out of this awful mess created by his two predecessors. I doubt very much the powers that be will lose much sleep if a few people decide they can no longer support the club. Staying in League 1 will generate an awful lot more cash than a few dozen outraged Mr Angrys withholding their support. After all, there’s no money coming through the turnstiles. There seems to be an awful lot of people who have forgotten that WAQ is keeping this club going solely with his money. And they want him gone. Gratitude, such gratitude. to be fair you have hit the nail on the head this time townie. The bit you are spectacularly wrong about. “have employed the person they think will get us out of this awful mess created by his two predecessors.” is this how football works in your mind? 😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆 Is this what you genuinely believe has happened/happening? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Mar 1, 2021 0:18:04 GMT
“the morals or political views of the manager are an irrelevance to most supporters”. why? Football clubs are a great institution and do a lot for their community. Being a manager is a very public profile job. It’s not like any other job a reformed and apologetic jailbird can be considered for. It’s not just about keeping teams up “so let’s just forget everything if he does that”. Just like political parties, and society in general, football clubs need to be careful they promote the right values, these are tolerance and respect in politics and society in general, tolerance and respect to the laws governing the land and its inhabitants, with clear lines and to react when those lines are crossed. THIS ISN’T MORALISING. THIS IS BEING PRACTICAL ABOUT IT. Tell me, for example, how does a manager discipline a player for making fascist salute when he makes fascist salutes himself? See? You just cannot believe politics is an irrelevance to this role, when political ideology is so finely woven with racism, antisemitism, and intolerance. Likewise: How does a club sack players who have bet on matches they are involved in, when they hire managers with 18 month ban from football who do that themselves? How do you discipline anyone employed by the club who will beat up 15 year old kids, rather than laugh off a bit of teasing banter, when your leader does this themselves? Etc. Etc. Etc. To say this particular job comes with white Knight standards is not moralising, some fans need to open their eyes to the practicalities and precedents that underwrite the commercial and political transactions of common everyday life. Exactly. Wonder what storm would land on the head of any manager if he made a mistake and mis-gendered someone, or inadvertently used a term relating to race, or sexual orientation which is now outdated? All Hell would break lose and suddenly morals would quite possibly be very important to some people who have decided it's convenient to ignore Barton's previous conduct. We've backed ourselves unto a ridiculous corner with this appointment. exactly. and it’s fallen to us as our duty to keep waving the dime bar in front these melts until they get it.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Mar 1, 2021 0:52:34 GMT
I disagree. The Rovers board have employed the person they think will get us out of this awful mess created by his two predecessors. I doubt very much the powers that be will lose much sleep if a few people decide they can no longer support the club. Staying in League 1 will generate an awful lot more cash than a few dozen outraged Mr Angrys withholding their support. After all, there’s no money coming through the turnstiles. There seems to be an awful lot of people who have forgotten that WAQ is keeping this club going solely with his money. And they want him gone. Gratitude, such gratitude. to be fair you have hit the nail on the head this time townie. The bit you are spectacularly wrong about. “have employed the person they think will get us out of this awful mess created by his two predecessors.” is this how football works in your mind? 😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆 Is this what you genuinely believe has happened/happening? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 ive been nothing but honest and straight with you townie, so here’s another for you. If Barton doesn’t keep us up and finishes some way short, I’m not blaming him for it. Nor Tisdale. And only partially blaming the rookie Garner. we went into the season with a side who were going to struggle to compete. And despite being obvious from the first boys v men matches, it was never addressed. The squad was flawed especially up front where they can’t be expected to do better, mostly young and developing unit not balanced with proven age and experience or leaders that end, at the back we could have expected more, but in defence of individuals any team with new partnerships and systems at back almost every game is asking for trouble, as well as needing cover from in front of them. The second managerial recruitment exercise of the season should have focussed on safe pair of hands for long term coaching hard work, not short term “I can keep you up” bull s**t. If the board accepted good likelihood of relegation to hire the right management duo, I would now be supporting the board, not smelling the coffee and calling for them to go. After two matches I can also say what I like from what I have seen, not just criticise. He has our defensive line deeper, which mitigates our lack of pace back there. And just one team change, and little formation change, between matches helps to imbed his particular set up and style. Under Tis it wasn’t just formation, tactical personnel switcheroo game to game but every 10 minutes in games!
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Mar 1, 2021 1:09:01 GMT
Religious zealots? Really, Townie? I don't think you'll find two more anti-religious proponents of independent thought than Bambi (now Thin White Duke) and me. We just value decency and dignity, mate. Wish for the destruction of the club? If you think anyone on here wishes for the destruction of the club, then you need a little lie down. After that, consider which BRFC employee or shareholder might bring about the actual destruction of the club. You baffle me, Townie. I think he's having a go at me there for writing facts about organised religion. He can take it to the 'non-football / anything goes / politics' section and explain why I'm wrong if he feels that strongly about it. But he won't, because he knows that what I wrote is correct, and was just scratching the surface. And anyway, I didn't start it, it was in response to someone making an erroneous equivocation between religion and morality. That doesn't mean that people of faith are by definition immoral people, but if we are talking about Judeo-Christianity, as I said, let's go to the correct forum section and I won't have to move outside of Exodus 21 to demonstrate the shortcomings of that filthy doctrine. To the second point. I would like Wael and Barton to please go away at their earliest convenience, to preserve the club, that's the opposite of destroying it, isn't it? “I would like Wael and Barton to please go away at their earliest convenience, to preserve the club, that's the opposite of destroying it, isn't it?” exactly. But still the religious quote is a misstep from the Barton fan girls considering Barton’s militant intolerant views on this. Are any fan girls actually aware of what Barton is seeking to do, do they really just not care alongs he keeps us up? Calling for the Church of England should be disestablished as the official Church of the U.K. maybe not so controversial in some people’s eyes, other people may see it that Barton is seeking to destroy what they like about their country, it’s close association to the tradition, authority and duty of the Anglican Church. Perhaps more serious, and a touch intolerant, Barton has called for religion to be privatised. All public money withdrawn from religion. anyway, as it went past the hour I started on the Welsh Cakes. Those of us who still value Saint Days, like St George’s day should make most of them before the populist Barton and his Sally Army of wokist fan girls ban them.
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towngas
Joined: February 2021
Posts: 566
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Post by towngas on Mar 1, 2021 9:28:09 GMT
Religious zealots? Really, Townie? I don't think you'll find two more anti-religious proponents of independent thought than Bambi (now Thin White Duke) and me. We just value decency and dignity, mate. Wish for the destruction of the club? If you think anyone on here wishes for the destruction of the club, then you need a little lie down. After that, consider which BRFC employee or shareholder might bring about the actual destruction of the club. You baffle me, Townie. he doesn’t baffle me. He clearly just doing here the bs Barton does on Twitter. if you are a real genuine person townie, listen: Garner has a pile of testimonials for being able to nurture and develop footballers. Like doing the garden, it takes time. Barton can’t match that. Fact. He is though putting together a fine criminal record. Which one would you rather spend a long time at your club? What’s happening is owner and minions had idea of young squad organic growth. I’m okay with that, as well as forging dna of the finer qualities and values of how a club is run and plays its football. The squad was flawed and not competing to stay in this division, especially up front where they can’t be expected to do better, mostly young and developing not balanced with proven age and experience, at the back we could have expected more, but in defence of individuals any team with new partnerships and systems at back almost every game is asking for trouble. so the panic button was hit to try and avoid relegation falsely believing passion and aggression is all it needed. And that’s the path taken by and supported by fools, falling into the trap that is the big misconception in football. it’s a case of the short term long term game. What’s best and worst for club in long term. This whole thread is about explaining this to fans who just don’t get it. thinking about what just said there, are you at least beginning to see where we are coming from? I really couldn’t be fairer to you if all you really want is argue. re You are rather patronising aren’t you? I get it perfectly well, thank you, and don’t need some kind of education from you or anyone else. If you think Garner was a good choice as manager that’s your prerogative. Performances however tended to suggest otherwise. I hoped WAQ’s appointment of this young, untested coach would lead to sustained growth but it quickly became apparent that he was out of his depth. He was trying to swim in the deep end of an Olympic size swimming pool when he hadn’t progressed from the toddlers paddling pool. It was a relief when he was removed. I thought anyone but Holloway or Tisdale. They selected him, and I supported him because he was out new manager, but if anything he was more inept than Garner, he had been a lower league manager for years, yet served up that dross. MK fans said he was clueless, they were right. I was surprised when Barton was appointed, he wouldn’t be my choice but he is our manager and I will support him and the team. If he proves to be useless I will support his removal. His personal life is none of my business. It doesn’t affect me and I’m prepared to give him a chance on that score. If he commits another offence whilst with us I will hold my hands up and admit my mistake. I don’t see what’s wrong with that, and that is what I’ve been saying all along. Please don’t patronise me, it’s very irritating.
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