warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,561
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Post by warehamgas on Oct 23, 2022 12:29:55 GMT
It is difficult to compare teams from different eras but you compare them with their fellow teams from the same era. And on that basis we achieved more in the past eras than anything we’ve done since 2000. Unfashionable teams getting to the PL doesn’t happen anymore? It does, I’ve watched AFCB in the PL in 6 out of the last 8 seasons and do pretty well in it. But I agree that if JB were to get us to the Championship (and I’d say keep us there for a few seasons) then he would be “right up there.” If. UTG! Your exception actually proves the rule - AFCB got to the Premier League on the back of a rich owner and a disregard for financial rules. Without this they would probably be a L1 side? The PL isn't an entirely closed shop, but it increasingly resembles one. They were fined for that. Manchester City did far worse with regard to EUFA rules but still ....... they somehow managed to circumvent any major punishment. It seems like the smaller clubs are held to account more than others in some eyes. The large sponsors of these bigger clubs enable them to fudge/blur the lines. And after AFCB were relegated they managed to recover and reclaim a PL place. All very legal. I’m not a fan, nor a spokesperson for AFCB but they showed an “unfashionable club” could get to the PL and more importantly, stay there for a time. And of course your point about it resembling a closed shop is a valid one. And the longer the money is organised the nearer it will get to being a closed shop of about 25 clubs, or thereabouts, that occupy the PL places. (The current 20 in the PL and half a dozen or so with parachute payments who have a built in advantage over all the others.) But you are correct, they did break the rule and were punished for it. I think it was a £4.75m fine (without checking). But I was questioning the suggestion that “unfashionable clubs” can’t get to the PL. AFCB did, Burnley 7/8 years ago could have been called “unfashionable” then. If JB comes anyway near achieving what Eddie H did then he would have every right to call himself whatever he wants to (as would bas!!) If. UTG!
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Post by rideintothesun on Oct 23, 2022 12:52:00 GMT
Your exception actually proves the rule - AFCB got to the Premier League on the back of a rich owner and a disregard for financial rules. Without this they would probably be a L1 side? The PL isn't an entirely closed shop, but it increasingly resembles one. They were fined for that. Manchester City did far worse with regard to EUFA rules but still ....... they somehow managed to circumvent any major punishment. It seems like the smaller clubs are held to account more than others in some eyes. The large sponsors of these bigger clubs enable them to fudge/blur the lines. And after AFCB were relegated they managed to recover and reclaim a PL place. All very legal. I’m not a fan, nor a spokesperson for AFCB but they showed an “unfashionable club” could get to the PL and more importantly, stay there for a time. And of course your point about it resembling a closed shop is a valid one. And the longer the money is organised the nearer it will get to being a closed shop of about 25 clubs, or thereabouts, that occupy the PL places. (The current 20 in the PL and half a dozen or so with parachute payments who have a built in advantage over all the others.) But you are correct, they did break the rule and were punished for it. I think it was a £4.75m fine (without checking). But I was questioning the suggestion that “unfashionable clubs” can’t get to the PL. AFCB did, Burnley 7/8 years ago could have been called “unfashionable” then. If JB comes anyway near achieving what Eddie H did then he would have every right to call himself whatever he wants to (as would bas!!) If. UTG! The punishment is so small it is effectively an incentivise? This is pocket money for the likes of Bournemouth's owners and is almost a cost that they would factor in for taking the risk. In an interesting development, the clubs with parachute payments seem to be very bad at spending them, lessening the advantage. Look at West Brom, who are currently languishing second from bottom in the Championship and suffering the indignity of having been recently defeated by c*ty. But you are correct - over the long-term and in most cases, this built-in advantage usually guarantees promotion within a few seasons. For my money, Burnley are a better example of an unfashionable club making it in the PL.
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Post by Bath Gas on Oct 23, 2022 14:23:44 GMT
When addicts and the otherwise mentally ill stop blaming addiction and mental illness for their actions, and take sincere and total personal responsibility for everything they have done and do, then with the right support they can reform themselves and build a new life for themselves, from the bottom, working their way back up. I'm sure many of us have this experience. Barton never has: nothing is ever his fault, he excuses, justifies, and minimises. When he's not boasting. Nope. Good grief - you really have no idea of what some people go through. Yes, I also know of people who have overcome addictions or mental health issues, and worked their way back to a "normal" life, I also know of people who have "reformed" for a period of time, and then regressed - unfortunately, not everybody is wired the same way. We have no idea who Barton may or may not have reached out to, or what he may have said in such discussions. I only know that he's been involved with Sporting Chance, and found a very helpful mentor there, who has sadly passed away.
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Post by baselswh on Oct 23, 2022 14:39:43 GMT
Hmm. I'm afraid I don't trust these 'sympathetic and understanding' suggestions from some,of what Joe should do to help himself.I remember how critical some have been of him,so motives don't carry so much credibility.
Then there's not believing he's 'getting better' because he has'nt publicised his treatment/progress,eg the doctors he may of spoken to ,books read and experience of putting theory into practice in his every day life.
It seems arrogance personified to expect a monthly report on something so personal.
I don't know,but I'm reminded of a 'kind' executioner,helping the sentenced man off with his coat, generously allowing him a decent last smoke,then and inevitably, swinging the axe.
I think this thread a disgrace and I'm embarrassed by it.
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Post by rideintothesun on Oct 23, 2022 14:54:01 GMT
When addicts and the otherwise mentally ill stop blaming addiction and mental illness for their actions, and take sincere and total personal responsibility for everything they have done and do, then with the right support they can reform themselves and build a new life for themselves, from the bottom, working their way back up. I'm sure many of us have this experience. Barton never has: nothing is ever his fault, he excuses, justifies, and minimises. When he's not boasting. Nope. Good grief - you really have no idea of what some people go through. Yes, I also know of people who have overcome addictions or mental health issues, and worked their way back to a "normal" life, I also know of people who have "reformed" for a period of time, and then regressed - unfortunately, not everybody is wired the same way. We have no idea who Barton may or may not have reached out to, or what he may have said in such discussions. I only know that he's been involved with Sporting Chance, and found a very helpful mentor there, who has sadly passed away. You are actually spectacularly wrong in making that assumption. Anybody who have lived with somebody with these issues knows how frustrating it is and how easy it is to revert to 'pull your socks up', which is so inappropriate and counter-productive in the case of genuine mental illness. I'm no fan of his (and actually find him pretty loathsome), but Jeremy Kyle was so hard on his guests precisely because he had a brother with 'personal responsibility' issues.
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Post by swissgas on Oct 23, 2022 15:10:08 GMT
The majority of Gasheads have forgiven JB’s past misdemeanors and embraced his personality and the way he goes about doing his job.
Would they do the same if a Liverpool businessman who is about to be released from prison were to directly or indirectly become involved with Rovers ?
Would they say this person had paid his debt to society and turn a blind eye to the source of any investment which was forthcoming ?
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Post by Bath Gas on Oct 23, 2022 15:17:41 GMT
Good grief - you really have no idea of what some people go through. Yes, I also know of people who have overcome addictions or mental health issues, and worked their way back to a "normal" life, I also know of people who have "reformed" for a period of time, and then regressed - unfortunately, not everybody is wired the same way. We have no idea who Barton may or may not have reached out to, or what he may have said in such discussions. I only know that he's been involved with Sporting Chance, and found a very helpful mentor there, who has sadly passed away. You are actually spectacularly wrong in making that assumption. Anybody who have lived with somebody with these issues knows how frustrating it is and how easy it is to revert to 'pull your socks up', which is so inappropriate and counter-productive in the case of genuine mental illness. I'm no fan of his (and actually find him pretty loathsome), but Jeremy Kyle was so hard on his guests precisely because he had a brother with 'personal responsibility' issues. If you have experience of this, I am amazed that you hold the views which you express on here. As for judging whether or not a person has a "genuine mental illness" - that's just insulting.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2022 15:24:58 GMT
Addiction of any sort is recognised by professional bodies and health authorities worldwide, as mental illness.
Still Duke/Crap Velvets song knows best.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2022 15:26:01 GMT
The majority of Gasheads have forgiven JB’s past misdemeanors and embraced his personality and the way he goes about doing his job. Would they do the same if a Liverpool businessman who is about to be released from prison were to directly or indirectly become involved with Rovers ? Would they say this person had paid his debt to society and turn a blind eye to the source of any investment which was forthcoming ? Rather than your usual "I know something you don't" patter, why not say who you're talking about?
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Post by swissgas on Oct 23, 2022 15:41:52 GMT
The majority of Gasheads have forgiven JB’s past misdemeanors and embraced his personality and the way he goes about doing his job. Would they do the same if a Liverpool businessman who is about to be released from prison were to directly or indirectly become involved with Rovers ? Would they say this person had paid his debt to society and turn a blind eye to the source of any investment which was forthcoming ? Rather than your usual "I know something you don't" patter, why not say who you're talking about? As an avid reader of my posts you should know who I’m talking about Doc. Eighteen months ago I suggested former Barrow and Chester City owner Stephen Vaughan and the person who owned Holker Street could potentially become involved with Rovers.
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bloogas
Joined: July 2016
Posts: 1,111
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Post by bloogas on Oct 23, 2022 15:50:10 GMT
The majority of Gasheads have forgiven JB’s past misdemeanors and embraced his personality and the way he goes about doing his job. Would they do the same if a Liverpool businessman who is about to be released from prison were to directly or indirectly become involved with Rovers ? Would they say this person had paid his debt to society and turn a blind eye to the source of any investment which was forthcoming ? Rather than your usual "I know something you don't" patter, why not say who you're talking about? More pertinently, Dr, Swiss might tell us, if he needed life saving surgery and one surgeon was the best one for the operation and he then found out that the guy had been detained at His Majestie's, whether he would then decline said operation? Slightly melodramatic perhaps, but telling. I notice the careful use of "most Gasheads", thus heading off any accusations of "how do you know what I think?"
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2022 16:02:19 GMT
Swiss, Stephen Vaughan senior isn't in prison. His son is in prison.
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Post by swissgas on Oct 23, 2022 16:08:09 GMT
Rather than your usual "I know something you don't" patter, why not say who you're talking about? Swiss might tell us, if he needed life saving surgery and one surgeon was the best one for the operation and he then found out that the guy had been detained at His Majestie's, whether he would then decline said operation? Slightly melodramatic perhaps, but telling. Are things already that bad then ? I thought there was still time to consider sensible options and make a reasoned decision.
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Post by swissgas on Oct 23, 2022 16:10:32 GMT
Swiss, Stephen Vaughan senior isn't in prison. His son is in prison. The associate of Vaughan who owned Barrow’s Holker Street ground is about to be released from prison.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2022 16:16:23 GMT
Swiss, Stephen Vaughan senior isn't in prison. His son is in prison. The associate of Vaughan who owned Barrow’s Holker Street ground is about to be released from prison. Ah, so you think Curtis Warren may invest in Rovers? What makes you think such a thing? Have you become pen pals?
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Post by swissgas on Oct 23, 2022 16:32:58 GMT
The associate of Vaughan who owned Barrow’s Holker Street ground is about to be released from prison. Ah, so you think Curtis Warren may invest in Rovers? What makes you think such a thing? Have you become pen pals? We’ll I thought it eighteen months ago and posted so on here. My question was whether Gasheads would freely embrace such an unconventional investor.
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Post by baselswh on Oct 23, 2022 16:47:35 GMT
Curtis Warren won't even be able to blow off,without a Bobby saying'phoar,that's a smelly one,you're under arrest'.
He'll be under strict guidelines designed to keep him on the straight and narrow.
He won't be able to splash the cash he's reputed to have hidden away.
To answer your question Swiss,I think any fc that allows Curtis Warren into the boardroom, need their heads testing.
Edit. I may well need my "head testing",but not that much!🙂
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2022 16:54:07 GMT
Ah, so you think Curtis Warren may invest in Rovers? What makes you think such a thing? Have you become pen pals? We’ll I thought it eighteen months ago and posted so on here. My question was whether Gasheads would freely embrace such an unconventional investor. 18 months ago? Why would anyone remember that? As for being an avid reader...not guilty Swiss, I often skim past. My question was what makes you think he would be involved or interested? Any actual reason for your belief, ir are you just s**t stirring again?
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Post by swissgas on Oct 23, 2022 17:00:51 GMT
We’ll I thought it eighteen months ago and posted so on here. My question was whether Gasheads would freely embrace such an unconventional investor. 18 months ago? Why would anyone remember that? As for being an avid reader...not guilty Swiss, I often skim past. My question was what makes you think he would be involved or interested? Any actual reason for your belief, ir are you just s**t stirring again? You answer my question then I’ll answer yours Doc.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2022 17:16:01 GMT
18 months ago? Why would anyone remember that? As for being an avid reader...not guilty Swiss, I often skim past. My question was what makes you think he would be involved or interested? Any actual reason for your belief, ir are you just s**t stirring again? You answer my question then I’ll answer yours Doc. OK. It would be an odd decision to take his money.
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