Cheshiregas
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,979 
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Post by Cheshiregas on Feb 9, 2021 20:29:58 GMT
I think that reveals a prejudice which underlies his reception here A prejudice as he was new and so not a proven ITKer or mischief maker Agreed AMPG. Dave is a genuine fella with connections and deserved a bit more respect but I also understand why people are wary. They just don't believe what we "might" be missing out on neither did I when I was told about the plans. As I don't know Dave I don't know if he is genuine, a concerned businessman, or a mischief maker. My questions were out of interest and certainly not to shoot someone down as a first time poster on here (I understand he has posted on Gaschat before) You obviously know him and about the proposal Pop so please forgive those of us not in the know who have to take things on face value. Regards |
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Post by a more piratey game on Feb 9, 2021 20:32:35 GMT
I think that reveals a prejudice which underlies his reception here A prejudice as he was new and so not a proven ITKer or mischief maker I have no prejudice personally towards anyone new, I asked a few simple and non probing questions and he disappeared. I try to be non prejudicial or biased ion my questioning or reasoning. If anyone sees it that way then perhaps they need to question their own bias. Just a thought. I think the prejudice is there in black and white I believe that if someone doesn't recognise it it can be 'unconscious bias' which, in this case has not become any more conscious after it was pointed out |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2021 20:34:37 GMT
Agreed AMPG. Dave is a genuine fella with connections and deserved a bit more respect but I also understand why people are wary. They just don't believe what we "might" be missing out on neither did I when I was told about the plans. As I don't know Dave I don't know if he is genuine, a concerned businessman, or a mischief maker. My questions were out of interest and certainly not to shoot someone down as a first time poster on here (I understand he has posted on Gaschat before) You obviously know him and about the proposal Pop so please forgive those of us not in the know who have to take things on face value. Regards I understand how you feel Chesh, I wish Dave had said more but if he doesn't want to reveal the plans that were rebuked then its not for me to say as I know there are still plans for the development without Rovers. That said the plans were out of my league and obviously Rovers as well. |
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,979
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Post by Cheshiregas on Feb 9, 2021 20:46:48 GMT
I have no prejudice personally towards anyone new, I asked a few simple and non probing questions and he disappeared. I try to be non prejudicial or biased ion my questioning or reasoning. If anyone sees it that way then perhaps they need to question their own bias. Just a thought. I think the prejudice is there in black and white I believe that if someone doesn't recognise it it can be 'unconscious bias' which, in this case has not become any more conscious after it was pointed out I have had my unconscious bias training AMPG thanks, if you think I am biased that is your choice of interpretation. I appreciate you want to defend Dave and that's your right. I'm just amazed that modern businessmen are so sensitive to simple questions (and that's after 40 years of dealing with businesses from SMEs to multi nationals.) As you feel I am being biased I won't ask any more questions for fear of upsetting sensitivities. Have a good evening. |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2021 20:49:12 GMT
I think the prejudice is there in black and white I believe that if someone doesn't recognise it it can be 'unconscious bias' which, in this case has not become any more conscious after it was pointed out I have had my unconscious bias training AMPG thanks, if you think I am biased that is your choice of interpretation. I appreciate you want to defend Dave and that's your right. I'm just amazed that modern businessmen are so sensitive to simple questions (and that's after 40 years of dealing with businesses from SMEs to multi nationals.) As you feel I am being biased I won't ask any more questions for fear of upsetting sensitivities. Have a good evening. Chesh, have a look at the link I posted earlier and see if you find anything interesting. |
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Post by a more piratey game on Feb 9, 2021 20:50:08 GMT
I think the prejudice is there in black and white I believe that if someone doesn't recognise it it can be 'unconscious bias' which, in this case has not become any more conscious after it was pointed out I have had my unconscious bias training AMPG thanks, if you think I am biased that is your choice of interpretation. I appreciate you want to defend Dave and that's your right. I'm just amazed that modern businessmen are so sensitive to simple questions (and that's after 40 years of dealing with businesses from SMEs to multi nationals.) As you feel I am being biased I won't ask any more questions for fear of upsetting sensitivities. Have a good evening. I'm not looking to defend Dave, I'm looking to have good standards on here |
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,979
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Post by Cheshiregas on Feb 9, 2021 21:11:21 GMT
I have had my unconscious bias training AMPG thanks, if you think I am biased that is your choice of interpretation. I appreciate you want to defend Dave and that's your right. I'm just amazed that modern businessmen are so sensitive to simple questions (and that's after 40 years of dealing with businesses from SMEs to multi nationals.) As you feel I am being biased I won't ask any more questions for fear of upsetting sensitivities. Have a good evening. I'm not looking to defend Dave, I'm looking to have good standards on here Aren't we all AMPG, so I hope you will apply the same scrutiny and pass your 'unbiased' judgement on those who come on to throw grenades against the Board (which I am not seeking to defend by the way) and then run away and hide having done the damage, refusing to answer questions, back up or be challenged on their often seemingly unfounded accusations. |
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,979
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Post by Cheshiregas on Feb 9, 2021 21:11:54 GMT
I have had my unconscious bias training AMPG thanks, if you think I am biased that is your choice of interpretation. I appreciate you want to defend Dave and that's your right. I'm just amazed that modern businessmen are so sensitive to simple questions (and that's after 40 years of dealing with businesses from SMEs to multi nationals.) As you feel I am being biased I won't ask any more questions for fear of upsetting sensitivities. Have a good evening. Chesh, have a look at the link I posted earlier and see if you find anything interesting. Thanks Pop, will do |
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Post by a more piratey game on Feb 9, 2021 21:19:59 GMT
I'm not looking to defend Dave, I'm looking to have good standards on here Aren't we all AMPG, so I hope you will apply the same scrutiny and pass your 'unbiased' judgement on those who come on to throw grenades against the Board (which I am not seeking to defend by the way) and then run away and hide having done the damage, refusing to answer questions, back up or be challenged on their often seemingly unfounded accusations. I didn't say I am unbiased, I said I thought your post revealed a prejudice which underlies the welcome that Dave got on here |
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Post by a more piratey game on Feb 9, 2021 21:23:43 GMT
Aren't we all AMPG, so I hope you will apply the same scrutiny and pass your 'unbiased' judgement on those who come on to throw grenades against the Board (which I am not seeking to defend by the way) and then run away and hide having done the damage, refusing to answer questions, back up or be challenged on their often seemingly unfounded accusations. I didn't say I am unbiased, I said I thought your post revealed a prejudice which underlies the welcome that Dave got on here I remember having a bit of an extended ping-pong with swiss that followed this sort of lines.....I said something, he responded by talking about something linked-but-different, I re-stated what I'd stated, he responded by talking about something linked-but-different etc etc I guess that's all part of waffling on a forum - a bit like a pub conversation, except that the previous bits are still there in black and white |
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Post by swissgas on Feb 9, 2021 22:14:53 GMT
I didn't say I am unbiased, I said I thought your post revealed a prejudice which underlies the welcome that Dave got on here I remember having a bit of an extended ping-pong with swiss that followed this sort of lines.....I said something, he responded by talking about something linked-but-different, I re-stated what I'd stated, he responded by talking about something linked-but-different etc etc I guess that's all part of waffling on a forum - a bit like a pub conversation, except that the previous bits are still there in black and white I feel a bit responsible for all this because I think one of my posts provoked Dave into coming on and telling us about the project he is involved with. And I can understand Cheshire's difficulty in accepting Dave's legitimacy because we have had so much "in the know" talk in the past from Supporters Club people who feel disaffected and have posted about matters which in most cases were actually legitimate but which they couldn't reveal in detail and hence they lost credibility. Recently I posted about a training ground option which I believe Rovers were wrong to have never seriously considered and was asked to provide details but this would have involved betraying the confidence of the person who told me so I didn't. Yet surely, after all we have witnessed, there comes a point when we must conclude that in most cases Gasheads aren't deliberately making up stories to cause trouble and that in most cases Rovers constant failings can be explained by the mismanagement those posters are trying to highlight. To me Ben Garner's sacking and Paul Tisdale's appointment is a perfect illustration of a forum poster painting a scenario which goes against the club line but which could not be backed up factually. We were told by Martyn Starnes on November 18th "we want any new manager to carry on with the same philosophy, that's mandatory". And when asked whether an experienced manager was preferable Martyn said " We are open-minded about that, if somebody shows themselves to be fitting the bill perfectly for us but they haven’t quite got the experience we prefer we may take them", Paul was appointed on November 19th - the next day ! So who do you believe ? The official club spokesman Martyn Starnes or the forum poster who, without being able to provide any evidence, told us the club had rushed to track down Paul Tisdale and ask him if he would come ? |
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Post by gasandproud on Feb 9, 2021 23:30:40 GMT
said I wouldn’t post again so apologies for doing what I said I wouldn’t and I hope that doesn’t make anyone feel I am not trust worthy. The last thing I want is people arguing / falling out because of what I have said and therefore a further post is probably appropriate. I posted on gas chat as someone mentioned to me that the post had been lifted across and I thought it correct to address that given I had put my name to it. I have not answered specific questions about the project as I simply cannot. What I will say is that if and when the info comes into the public domain I will put my name to it at that stage too. I didn’t intend for my initial post to be quite as explosive and my motivation was genuinely to explain that there was truth in the fact that there were other options for the club to consider (other than the fruit market) which quite a few people have said but have been dismissed. I was then called out as someone who was hiding so I thought it appropriate to put my name to it. I (as a gas head) would feel the same if someone wasn’t prepared to back up to some degree what they were claiming with at least a name. If I could go into specifics about the project I would as quite frankly there would then be zero debate to be had. I understand totally why people are sceptical as I can’t answer specifics but I have absolutely nothing to gain by putting my name to something that is a fantasy! When it went a little bit mad on here (and in hindsight I should have realised that would happen) I thought it was worth one last shot at turning a potentially negative situation into a positive. I can see I have been criticised for trying to instigate a deal on a forum. That wasn’t and isn’t the case. I saw according to the Bristol Post Q an and A that no meetings have taken place! Well I must have been in one massive dream over the last 18 months if that’s the case, I am not trying to do any kind of deal on a forum but as a long standing supporter I don’t feel that it’s wrong to have mentioned my experience with the club.... Others (myself included) criticise all kinds of aspects of the club and discuss their experiences on forums, on those occasions they also call for change or a reaction to their issue from the club. I only changed tact and asked rovers to react to turn a negative into a positive. In hindsight and based on the comments in the post that was probably naive and I suspect it’s very much game over. I am not a wealthy man in monetary terms relative to a stadium project and would not dream of trying to convince anyone that I would have the money required to fund anything like a stadium! If I was I would be stupid enough to throw it all into the club anyway! I am however (with my gas head friend) a chap who has spent a long time putting deals together by bringing people with the ability to make deals happen to the right table at the appropriate time and suggesting the framework for negotiations. As an example we are the two guys who have brought the potential esports stakeholders together as reported below. This is nothing to do with the project / scheme being discussed here but is simply an example to demonstrate I am not a fantasist! www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/1500-seater-esports-venue-proposed-4772055As two gas heads, passionate about the club getting a new stadium we have simply tried hard to bring the club to the table at the appropriate time. Our attempts were motivated by a desire to make a contribution to the progress of the club that most supporters seem desperate for. The comments in the post seemingly make the position clear now and hopefully we can all move on. Nobody (and I mean nobody) would be happier than me if the club announced a stadium plan elsewhere / fruit market / redevelopment of the Mem etc. I understand from the comments in the post that the club are looking at other options. That’s their prerogative and I completely respect that and of course wish them well. I will be an extremely happy chap when one day the stadium project is realised. |
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,604
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Post by eppinggas on Feb 10, 2021 10:10:21 GMT
said I wouldn’t post again so apologies for doing what I said I wouldn’t and I hope that doesn’t make anyone feel I am not trust worthy. The last thing I want is people arguing / falling out because of what I have said and therefore a further post is probably appropriate. I posted on gas chat as someone mentioned to me that the post had been lifted across and I thought it correct to address that given I had put my name to it. I have not answered specific questions about the project as I simply cannot. What I will say is that if and when the info comes into the public domain I will put my name to it at that stage too. I didn’t intend for my initial post to be quite as explosive and my motivation was genuinely to explain that there was truth in the fact that there were other options for the club to consider (other than the fruit market) which quite a few people have said but have been dismissed. I was then called out as someone who was hiding so I thought it appropriate to put my name to it. I (as a gas head) would feel the same if someone wasn’t prepared to back up to some degree what they were claiming with at least a name. If I could go into specifics about the project I would as quite frankly there would then be zero debate to be had. I understand totally why people are sceptical as I can’t answer specifics but I have absolutely nothing to gain by putting my name to something that is a fantasy! When it went a little bit mad on here (and in hindsight I should have realised that would happen) I thought it was worth one last shot at turning a potentially negative situation into a positive. I can see I have been criticised for trying to instigate a deal on a forum. That wasn’t and isn’t the case. I saw according to the Bristol Post Q an and A that no meetings have taken place! Well I must have been in one massive dream over the last 18 months if that’s the case, I am not trying to do any kind of deal on a forum but as a long standing supporter I don’t feel that it’s wrong to have mentioned my experience with the club.... Others (myself included) criticise all kinds of aspects of the club and discuss their experiences on forums, on those occasions they also call for change or a reaction to their issue from the club. I only changed tact and asked rovers to react to turn a negative into a positive. In hindsight and based on the comments in the post that was probably naive and I suspect it’s very much game over. I am not a wealthy man in monetary terms relative to a stadium project and would not dream of trying to convince anyone that I would have the money required to fund anything like a stadium! If I was I would be stupid enough to throw it all into the club anyway! I am however (with my gas head friend) a chap who has spent a long time putting deals together by bringing people with the ability to make deals happen to the right table at the appropriate time and suggesting the framework for negotiations. As an example we are the two guys who have brought the potential esports stakeholders together as reported below. This is nothing to do with the project / scheme being discussed here but is simply an example to demonstrate I am not a fantasist! www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/1500-seater-esports-venue-proposed-4772055As two gas heads, passionate about the club getting a new stadium we have simply tried hard to bring the club to the table at the appropriate time. Our attempts were motivated by a desire to make a contribution to the progress of the club that most supporters seem desperate for. The comments in the post seemingly make the position clear now and hopefully we can all move on. Nobody (and I mean nobody) would be happier than me if the club announced a stadium plan elsewhere / fruit market / redevelopment of the Mem etc. I understand from the comments in the post that the club are looking at other options. That’s their prerogative and I completely respect that and of course wish them well. I will be an extremely happy chap when one day the stadium project is realised. Really interesting post - and thanks for spending time to write that up. Could I ask if it was you and your partner who were 'invited to join the Board' about 6 months ago? That episode has been bugging me for ages. I don't think Cheshire was being intentionally rude - I just we've all been stung with false hope over the years. UTG. |
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Post by Colyton Gas. on Feb 10, 2021 10:25:25 GMT
 'Drift' is the appropriate word.Just dropped the wife's car off for a service at a garage next to Stoke's ground.Stoke as a City is a dump with many social problems,high unemployment and one in 25 inhabitants an asylum seeker.However 24 years ago they built their terrific stadium which already has plans to improve.Of Course it helps that Mr Coates is a very generous and very wealthy Chairman but the City is half the size of Bristol and even Port Vale put us the shame ground wise. Will never forget leaving the BET365 when Stoke had been relegated from the Prem under Paul Lambert and one young supporter said to me,whilst in tears,'We'll be going to places like Bristol City where they have tents for stands'.I didn't correct him but we are in a right state as a club but I still love the Gas despite the club drifting towards league 2.-Again. |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 11:01:24 GMT
said I wouldn’t post again so apologies for doing what I said I wouldn’t and I hope that doesn’t make anyone feel I am not trust worthy. The last thing I want is people arguing / falling out because of what I have said and therefore a further post is probably appropriate. I posted on gas chat as someone mentioned to me that the post had been lifted across and I thought it correct to address that given I had put my name to it. I have not answered specific questions about the project as I simply cannot. What I will say is that if and when the info comes into the public domain I will put my name to it at that stage too. I didn’t intend for my initial post to be quite as explosive and my motivation was genuinely to explain that there was truth in the fact that there were other options for the club to consider (other than the fruit market) which quite a few people have said but have been dismissed. I was then called out as someone who was hiding so I thought it appropriate to put my name to it. I (as a gas head) would feel the same if someone wasn’t prepared to back up to some degree what they were claiming with at least a name. If I could go into specifics about the project I would as quite frankly there would then be zero debate to be had. I understand totally why people are sceptical as I can’t answer specifics but I have absolutely nothing to gain by putting my name to something that is a fantasy! When it went a little bit mad on here (and in hindsight I should have realised that would happen) I thought it was worth one last shot at turning a potentially negative situation into a positive. I can see I have been criticised for trying to instigate a deal on a forum. That wasn’t and isn’t the case. I saw according to the Bristol Post Q an and A that no meetings have taken place! Well I must have been in one massive dream over the last 18 months if that’s the case, I am not trying to do any kind of deal on a forum but as a long standing supporter I don’t feel that it’s wrong to have mentioned my experience with the club.... Others (myself included) criticise all kinds of aspects of the club and discuss their experiences on forums, on those occasions they also call for change or a reaction to their issue from the club. I only changed tact and asked rovers to react to turn a negative into a positive. In hindsight and based on the comments in the post that was probably naive and I suspect it’s very much game over. I am not a wealthy man in monetary terms relative to a stadium project and would not dream of trying to convince anyone that I would have the money required to fund anything like a stadium! If I was I would be stupid enough to throw it all into the club anyway! I am however (with my gas head friend) a chap who has spent a long time putting deals together by bringing people with the ability to make deals happen to the right table at the appropriate time and suggesting the framework for negotiations. As an example we are the two guys who have brought the potential esports stakeholders together as reported below. This is nothing to do with the project / scheme being discussed here but is simply an example to demonstrate I am not a fantasist! www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/1500-seater-esports-venue-proposed-4772055As two gas heads, passionate about the club getting a new stadium we have simply tried hard to bring the club to the table at the appropriate time. Our attempts were motivated by a desire to make a contribution to the progress of the club that most supporters seem desperate for. The comments in the post seemingly make the position clear now and hopefully we can all move on. Nobody (and I mean nobody) would be happier than me if the club announced a stadium plan elsewhere / fruit market / redevelopment of the Mem etc. I understand from the comments in the post that the club are looking at other options. That’s their prerogative and I completely respect that and of course wish them well. I will be an extremely happy chap when one day the stadium project is realised. Really interesting post - and thanks for spending time to write that up. Could I ask if it was you and your partner who were 'invited to join the Board' about 6 months ago? That episode has been bugging me for ages. I don't think Cheshire was being intentionally rude - I just we've all been stung with false hope over the years. UTG. Sorry to butt in but you might have missed Dave's earlier response to that question: "With regards to board appointments.... I will say this....“no comment” which is exactly what should have been said when that question was raised via the local media." |
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,604
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Post by eppinggas on Feb 10, 2021 12:21:55 GMT
Really interesting post - and thanks for spending time to write that up. Could I ask if it was you and your partner who were 'invited to join the Board' about 6 months ago? That episode has been bugging me for ages. I don't think Cheshire was being intentionally rude - I just we've all been stung with false hope over the years. UTG. Sorry to butt in but you might have missed Dave's earlier response to that question: "With regards to board appointments.... I will say this....“no comment” which is exactly what should have been said when that question was raised via the local media." Apologies, I missed that. And "no comment" speaks quite enough for me. Case closed. UTG. |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 12:28:02 GMT
Thanks for returning and for clarifying. Us sceptics have historical justification. Don't mind us, the Gas Guzzler splash wasn't more than I'm used to. Stick around here, Sir, if you would. There's a lot more thoughtful debate here than on Gaschat. And you get to debate a real duck. |
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bondigas
Joined: December 2017
Posts: 407
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Post by bondigas on Feb 10, 2021 14:31:13 GMT
said I wouldn’t post again so apologies for doing what I said I wouldn’t and I hope that doesn’t make anyone feel I am not trust worthy. The last thing I want is people arguing / falling out because of what I have said and therefore a further post is probably appropriate. I posted on gas chat as someone mentioned to me that the post had been lifted across and I thought it correct to address that given I had put my name to it. I have not answered specific questions about the project as I simply cannot. What I will say is that if and when the info comes into the public domain I will put my name to it at that stage too. I didn’t intend for my initial post to be quite as explosive and my motivation was genuinely to explain that there was truth in the fact that there were other options for the club to consider (other than the fruit market) which quite a few people have said but have been dismissed. I was then called out as someone who was hiding so I thought it appropriate to put my name to it. I (as a gas head) would feel the same if someone wasn’t prepared to back up to some degree what they were claiming with at least a name. If I could go into specifics about the project I would as quite frankly there would then be zero debate to be had. I understand totally why people are sceptical as I can’t answer specifics but I have absolutely nothing to gain by putting my name to something that is a fantasy! When it went a little bit mad on here (and in hindsight I should have realised that would happen) I thought it was worth one last shot at turning a potentially negative situation into a positive. I can see I have been criticised for trying to instigate a deal on a forum. That wasn’t and isn’t the case. I saw according to the Bristol Post Q an and A that no meetings have taken place! Well I must have been in one massive dream over the last 18 months if that’s the case, I am not trying to do any kind of deal on a forum but as a long standing supporter I don’t feel that it’s wrong to have mentioned my experience with the club.... Others (myself included) criticise all kinds of aspects of the club and discuss their experiences on forums, on those occasions they also call for change or a reaction to their issue from the club. I only changed tact and asked rovers to react to turn a negative into a positive. In hindsight and based on the comments in the post that was probably naive and I suspect it’s very much game over. I am not a wealthy man in monetary terms relative to a stadium project and would not dream of trying to convince anyone that I would have the money required to fund anything like a stadium! If I was I would be stupid enough to throw it all into the club anyway! I am however (with my gas head friend) a chap who has spent a long time putting deals together by bringing people with the ability to make deals happen to the right table at the appropriate time and suggesting the framework for negotiations. As an example we are the two guys who have brought the potential esports stakeholders together as reported below. This is nothing to do with the project / scheme being discussed here but is simply an example to demonstrate I am not a fantasist! www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/1500-seater-esports-venue-proposed-4772055As two gas heads, passionate about the club getting a new stadium we have simply tried hard to bring the club to the table at the appropriate time. Our attempts were motivated by a desire to make a contribution to the progress of the club that most supporters seem desperate for. The comments in the post seemingly make the position clear now and hopefully we can all move on. Nobody (and I mean nobody) would be happier than me if the club announced a stadium plan elsewhere / fruit market / redevelopment of the Mem etc. I understand from the comments in the post that the club are looking at other options. That’s their prerogative and I completely respect that and of course wish them well. I will be an extremely happy chap when one day the stadium project is realised. |
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bondigas
Joined: December 2017
Posts: 407
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Post by bondigas on Feb 10, 2021 14:36:36 GMT
If you want to clear up a few points that concern your lack of progress and frustration check out who's behind Dwane Sports Jersey and other offshore companies. I think you will find your talking to the wrong person/people.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 16:00:18 GMT
If you want to clear up a few points that concern your lack of progress and frustration check out who's behind Dwane Sports Jersey and other offshore companies. I think you will find your talking to the wrong person/people. I presume you mean Wael or have you discovered something monumental? |
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