phil74
Joined: October 2018
Posts: 354
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Post by phil74 on Feb 2, 2021 21:31:41 GMT
Four years ago - our first season back in League One:
RIDING THE CREST OF A WAVE... BACK-TO-BACK PROMOTIONS
28 Jan 2017 - We beat Swindon 1 - 0. Taylor's last game for us. Bodin scores. Darrell manager. Comfortably mid-table. Plenty of high-scoring games earlier in the season.
22 Apr 2017 - We lose 2 - 4 at Peterboro. Outside chance of making the play-offs gone.
30 Apr 2017 - Lost 3 - 4 at home to Millwall and finish a creditable 10th. 68 goals scored in the season.
17 July 2017 - Striker Tom Nichols signs.
SELLING THE GOALS OUT OF THE TEAM...
1 Jan 2018 - We beat Portsmouth 2 - 1 at home, scoring twice in last 6 mins to come from behind (yet again)
3 Jan 2018 - Bodin leaves for Preston. We're 14th.
13 Feb 2018 - We beat Rochdale 3 - 2 at home. This is the last time we score more than 2 goals in a game that season.
Season peters out. Only 2 wins in the last 14 games. We finish 13th.
9 Aug 2018 - Striker Stefan Payne signs.
FROM DC TO GC...
8 Dec 2018 - We lose 0 - 4 at home to Doncaster and sit 21st after 17 games. 17 goals scored.
13 Dec 2018 - Darrell sacked.
Graham Coughlan takes over. After losing the first match away at Sunderland, we win 3 in a row over Christmas and only lose 1 of the next 7. Conceding only 5 goals
1 Feb 2019 - Striker Jonson Clarke-Harris signs
We lose only 4 of the final 17 games and finish in 15th place - just 4 pts above relegation
GC gets results but the football is turgid and he doesn't endear himself to many fans, complaining that we don't offer enough support.
14 Dec 2019 - A typically battling GC team performance sees us win 2 - 1 at Ipswich and reach the giddy heights of 4th in the table. 10 wins in the opening 19 games.
GC gives a peculiar post-match interview, questioning how much further he can take us?
GC resigns and joins Mansfield a division below.
GARNERBALL...
23 Dec 2019 - Ben Garner hired as Manager, with a vision to play expansive football.
26 Dec 2019 - We lead Wimbledon 1 - 0 at home before HT and are briefly 2nd in the table. We go on to lose the game 1 - 2.
We don't win any of the next 9 games, before finally beating Blackpool in mid-Feb.
10 Mar 2020 - JCH scores both in a 2 - 0 win over Sunderland.
COVID curtails the season. We finish 14th. JCH never plays for us again.
27 Aug 2020 - JCH joins Peterboro.
New season launches in Sep.
14 Nov 2020 - A 1 - 4 home defeat to Doncaster proves enough for the board and the trigger is pulled on Ben Garner - 6 wins in 33 games.
19 Nov 2020 - former Exeter boss Paul Tisdale joins the Gas.
2 Feb 2021 - 8 defeats in 13 games culminate in a 6 - 1 capitulation at Accrington.
We were 4 - 1 down by HT. A similar scoreline at York saw the end of Mark McGhee's reign in 2012. Paul Trollope went after we lost 6 - 2 at Sheff Wed in 2010 - the season we were relegated to League Two.
WHAT HOPE IS LEFT??
I fear relegation may have been sealed tonight, although I do feel we should keep faith in Tisdale. He inherited these players. Who could do a better job? The collapse in our results in the last year alone has been astounding. Although I wasn't a fan of GC, you couldn't argue with results. Ben Garner dismantled his side almost overnight and look where we are now. A squad with only 3 strikers. We have creative midfielders like Oztumer, Nicholson and Westbrooke but they look confused and totally devoid of confidence. This must be the hardest challenge Tisdale has ever faced.
UTG.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Feb 3, 2021 0:38:40 GMT
14 Nov 2020 - A 1 - 4 home defeat to Doncaster proves enough for the board and the trigger is pulled on Ben Garner - 6 wins in 33 games.
Fleetwood wasn’t it?
At first I thought I’d say I’d like to see less moaning at managers and more focus on the evolution of the squad over windows.
Quite a big squad. Much of a muchness.
There’s wage caps and things. Those who don’t start, little, barrel, for example how much are they earning?
We have lacked a cutting edge all season. But managers and fans have watched the defence implode time after time. In fact one of the better performances, at posh, had the word ogogo writ large. Grant is not in the same place as ogogo, for example. So it points the fact the squad has been changed over twelve to eighteen months or so to something weaker, without incoming delivering as well as Lockyer, Craig, sercs,, Clarke, JCH obviously, etc.
However is it correct to say any manager would have struggled to keep this squad from relegating us?
I know Basel will leap in, as he hates Garner input, but I am beginning to think Garners teams started matches more composed organised and confident than Tisdales. We had a few tonkins under Garner this season, but there were some creditable performances too. The day Garner was sacked I didn’t sense death spiral of confidence like it feels now.
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Post by CabbagePatchBlues on Feb 3, 2021 8:36:52 GMT
Away commentators both laugh and marvel at the naive end-to-end football Tisdale aspires to where he fields a team that ships goals for fun at one end and can't hit a barn door at the other. Nice on the eye though. Well, it would be when you're four up at halftime. Last night's commentator said surely Tisdale would be better off playing five at the back to reduce collateral damage, but hey ho, he wasn't complaining. I don't blame Garner. Like you say, he had a vision to play expansive football but went about it wielding a chainsaw on a side lying 4th in the table and replacing it with a tumbril load of young hopefuls that he could develop to get us into the championship. He was given ten games because a certain Geordie had a knee-jerk (when did a Geordie last move mountains?). I don't agree with the general consensus on GC's style of play. We UK migrants had the benefit of iFollow back then and could watch away games. It was anything but turgid. If you want turgid then you only have to go back to Darling Darrel's last stand where he dug a trench across midfield and stuck spiked poles in the ground. But nobody dares have a dig at a legend. I agree with Emporersuperbus's assessment of Garner: "I am beginning to think Garners teams started matches more composed organised and confident than Tisdales. We had a few tonkins under Garner this season, but there were some creditable performances too." Garner assembled a team suited to one-touch possession football and was replaced with a bloke that aspires to naive all-out attack. You can't blame the players for losing their mojo.
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harrybuckle
Always look on the bright side
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,571 
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Post by harrybuckle on Feb 3, 2021 8:41:55 GMT
Four years ago - our first season back in League One: RIDING THE CREST OF A WAVE... BACK-TO-BACK PROMOTIONS 28 Jan 2017 - We beat Swindon 1 - 0. Taylor's last game for us. Bodin scores. Darrell manager. Comfortably mid-table. Plenty of high-scoring games earlier in the season. 22 Apr 2017 - We lose 2 - 4 at Peterboro. Outside chance of making the play-offs gone. 30 Apr 2017 - Lost 3 - 4 at home to Millwall and finish a creditable 10th. 68 goals scored in the season. 17 July 2017 - Striker Tom Nichols signs. SELLING THE GOALS OUT OF THE TEAM... 1 Jan 2018 - We beat Portsmouth 2 - 1 at home, scoring twice in last 6 mins to come from behind (yet again) 3 Jan 2018 - Bodin leaves for Preston. We're 14th. 13 Feb 2018 - We beat Rochdale 3 - 2 at home. This is the last time we score more than 2 goals in a game that season. Season peters out. Only 2 wins in the last 14 games. We finish 13th. 9 Aug 2018 - Striker Stefan Payne signs. FROM DC TO GC... 8 Dec 2018 - We lose 0 - 4 at home to Doncaster and sit 21st after 17 games. 17 goals scored.
13 Dec 2018 - Darrell sacked. Graham Coughlan takes over. After losing the first match away at Sunderland, we win 3 in a row over Christmas and only lose 1 of the next 7. Conceding only 5 goals 1 Feb 2019 - Striker Jonson Clarke-Harris signs We lose only 4 of the final 17 games and finish in 15th place - just 4 pts above relegation GC gets results but the football is turgid and he doesn't endear himself to many fans, complaining that we don't offer enough support. 14 Dec 2019 - A typically battling GC team performance sees us win 2 - 1 at Ipswich and reach the giddy heights of 4th in the table. 10 wins in the opening 19 games. GC gives a peculiar post-match interview, questioning how much further he can take us? GC resigns and joins Mansfield a division below. GARNERBALL... 23 Dec 2019 - Ben Garner hired as Manager, with a vision to play expansive football. 26 Dec 2019 - We lead Wimbledon 1 - 0 at home before HT and are briefly 2nd in the table. We go on to lose the game 1 - 2. We don't win any of the next 9 games, before finally beating Blackpool in mid-Feb. 10 Mar 2020 - JCH scores both in a 2 - 0 win over Sunderland. COVID curtails the season. We finish 14th. JCH never plays for us again. 27 Aug 2020 - JCH joins Peterboro. New season launches in Sep. 14 Nov 2020 - A 1 - 4 home defeat to Doncaster proves enough for the board and the trigger is pulled on Ben Garner - 6 wins in 33 games. 19 Nov 2020 - former Exeter boss Paul Tisdale joins the Gas. 2 Feb 2021 - 8 defeats in 13 games culminate in a 6 - 1 capitulation at Accrington. We were 4 - 1 down by HT. A similar scoreline at York saw the end of Mark McGhee's reign in 2012. Paul Trollope went after we lost 6 - 2 at Sheff Wed in 2010 - the season we were relegated to League Two. WHAT HOPE IS LEFT?? I fear relegation may have been sealed tonight, although I do feel we should keep faith in Tisdale. He inherited these players. Who could do a better job? The collapse in our results in the last year alone has been astounding. Although I wasn't a fan of GC, you couldn't argue with results. Ben Garner dismantled his side almost overnight and look where we are now. A squad with only 3 strikers. We have creative midfielders like Oztumer, Nicholson and Westbrooke but they look confused and totally devoid of confidence. This must be the hardest challenge Tisdale has ever faced. UTG. Excellent post Phil summarised extremely well. Many thanks for posting. |
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,604
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Post by eppinggas on Feb 3, 2021 10:20:26 GMT
In answer to the thread title question, "more".
If it wasn't masochism, it just wouldn't be the same.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2021 10:37:23 GMT
In answer to the thread title question, "more". If it wasn't masochism, it just wouldn't be the same. Do we need a safe word? Asking for a friend. |
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,979
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Post by Cheshiregas on Feb 3, 2021 11:53:43 GMT
The problem we have is that we have a very willing investor who dreams of owning a successful football club.
I do believe that evolution rather than revolution is something to aspire to. It has worked for Accrington who know their limitations but build a little each year.
However the owner is very naïve. He needs someone to steady the ship for him and Starnes has dramatically failed in terms of the advice he has given. We need the likes of the directors who were rejected by Geoff Dunford and Nick Higgs as they threatened their position. The likes who had a similar thought process to Wael. But people who have the club at heart not see it as a job.
As they eluded to - build a strong financial structure, not necessitating the requirement of an invested wedge of cash each year, and plan for the future without getting carried away. We need calm, clear headed, long term stability. People with experience of business but also have the long term interests of the club at heart. People who are prepared to speak their mind and not be afraid to have a different opinion from the owner.
Wael also needs someone who can advise on players who looks at more than just getting what the manager wants. People who look at all aspects of a player, mental, physical and emotional attitude. We need players with the right ethic not just people who turn up and take a wage. Bobby Campbell, our old manager, told me that as soon as a player gets a regular wage irrespective of result, then it becomes a matter of motivation both internal (the player) and external (the manager/coaches).
Finally he needs advice on managers. A manager who doesn't take prisoners yet understands the necessity to understand what motivates each individual. Some need bollocking, some mentoring, some cajoling and so on. Above all he needs to promote a team ethic similar to that of DC when he was here. A team with a battler, a calm head, a motivator, a ball player, together with the spine of decent players. The current team has some quality but it seems totally disjointed, unmotivated and certainly don't seem to have a team ethic or care for the badge.
Of course if those who constantly criticise Wael (and yes as above he has his faults) and want rid could come up with some investors or alternative owners then I would be delighted to hear who they are.... Until they provide that info they need to stop constantly undermining the fanbase with negativity thrown in for the sake of it. As one of my old managers used to say, don't bring me problems, bring me solutions.
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bloogas
Joined: July 2016
Posts: 1,119
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Post by bloogas on Feb 3, 2021 12:34:48 GMT
Of course if those who constantly criticise Wael (and yes as above he has his faults) and want rid could come up with some investors or alternative owners then I would be delighted to hear who they are.... Until they provide that info they need to stop constantly undermining the fanbase with negativity thrown in for the sake of it. As one of my old managers used to say, don't bring me problems, bring me solutions. And so would I - be delighted I mean. As you infer, a lot of criticism, no credible solutions. |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2021 12:49:36 GMT
Of course if those who constantly criticise Wael (and yes as above he has his faults) and want rid could come up with some investors or alternative owners then I would be delighted to hear who they are.... Until they provide that info they need to stop constantly undermining the fanbase with negativity thrown in for the sake of it. As one of my old managers used to say, don't bring me problems, bring me solutions. And so would I - be delighted I mean. As you infer, a lot of criticism, no credible solutions. The solution as Cheshiregas has said is for people to work within the club to get the team and club heading in the right direction. Currently there are severe failings and I don't blame Tisdale for that but maybe his appointment has actually exposed it. There is no alternative to Wael so let's put that one to bed. |
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Feb 3, 2021 13:59:21 GMT
In answer to the thread title question, "more". If it wasn't masochism, it just wouldn't be the same. Do we need a safe word? Asking for a friend. The importance of safe words |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2021 14:15:53 GMT
Do we need a safe word? Asking for a friend. The importance of safe words Dare I open it?  |
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Post by swissgas on Feb 3, 2021 16:45:37 GMT
Of course if those who constantly criticise Wael (and yes as above he has his faults) and want rid could come up with some investors or alternative owners then I would be delighted to hear who they are.... Until they provide that info they need to stop constantly undermining the fanbase with negativity thrown in for the sake of it. As one of my old managers used to say, don't bring me problems, bring me solutions. And so would I - be delighted I mean. As you infer, a lot of criticism, no credible solutions. I was going to reply to you, Pop Harris and Cheshire with a lighthearted post about not being able to comment because my typing finger has gone septic but I know you all take this seriously so I'll do as well. In November 2019 I was made aware that the Fruit Market Stadium Plan was falling apart because Wael would not accept an elimination or substantial reduction of his stake in Rovers and that was a requirement for it to proceed. Subsequently I learned that another stadium scheme on the northern outskirts of Bristol had been put to Wael and very nearly moved forward but, for unknown reasons, he suddenly pulled out without explanation. And I also felt the reasons given by Wael for the failure of the UWE Stadium scheme mark II seemed spurious at the time and that a far more likely explanation was that he was unable or unwilling to provide the financial bond required by UWE. So, believing that Wael's desire to retain control of Rovers and his family's desire to get some of their money back was preventing Rovers getting a new stadium, in December 2019 I tried to come up with a credible solution. The idea was to provide a means of satisfying him and his family whilst allowing Rovers to move forward with a new stadium and a new business strategy. December 19th 2019" Please blame Holmes on the other forum for provoking me into responding to a question about the length of lease apparently being offered by the Fruit Market Developers for their proposed stadium. I broached the subject there earlier with my “Groundshare” theme but didn’t get far so I’ve had another go and thought it might be of interest over here. This is the cunning plan. 1) We know developers want the Mem and we know Hani and his family want to cut their losses but Wael wants to retain a stake. 2. If Wael wants to retain a stake but the Mem has to be sold to repay his family then we need somewhere to play in the short and long terms but we also need cash to fund the business 3. The best way to attract cash from outside sources would be to have a convincing plan in place and for Wael to show his commitment to that plan by reinvesting his share of the Mem sale proceeds into the club as equity. 4. So the steps are : a) Agree a provisional and conditional sale of the Mem to developers b) Agree a provisional groundshare with a suitable local club c). Commission Deloitte or other consultants to draw up a business plan for the club based on leasing the Fruit Market Stadium and using their expertise to determine the minimum lease period necessary for that plan to work d) Go to the market using reputable agents and the comprehensive business plan with the objective of obtaining an investment of circa 19 million in equity for a 76% stake based upon Wael reinvesting 4 million for a 16% stake. (8% held by others) e) With the strength of a company which will be capitalized at 23 million go to the City Council and the Fruit Market Developers and say to them “you want us in, this is what we need to come in, so let’s work together to make it happen” Now things have moved on significantly since then, and not in a good way, but there is no point in going over all that again. When Cheshire says Wael needs to take advice from experienced people who will not shirk from speaking their mind I agree wholeheartedly with him. But the problem is that we started off five years ago with some cracking photo's of Wael with exactly these type of experienced people but one by one they have all left and been replaced by people who Wael "trusts" to agree with him. To find a credible solution to the mess we are in Wael needs to want a solution and be prepared to make the sacrifices that solution will demand but does he want to ? The reason I post about this from time to time is because I believe Wael will only try to find a solution if fans press him to find one. If we keep thanking him for pouring money into the club and encouraging him to believe that he's doing nothing wrong and it's always someone else's fault then Wael will carry on making the same mistakes again and again until the inevitable happens. |
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,361
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 3, 2021 16:49:56 GMT
Four years ago - our first season back in League One: RIDING THE CREST OF A WAVE... BACK-TO-BACK PROMOTIONS 28 Jan 2017 - We beat Swindon 1 - 0. Taylor's last game for us. Bodin scores. Darrell manager. Comfortably mid-table. Plenty of high-scoring games earlier in the season. 22 Apr 2017 - We lose 2 - 4 at Peterboro. Outside chance of making the play-offs gone. 30 Apr 2017 - Lost 3 - 4 at home to Millwall and finish a creditable 10th. 68 goals scored in the season. 17 July 2017 - Striker Tom Nichols signs. SELLING THE GOALS OUT OF THE TEAM... 1 Jan 2018 - We beat Portsmouth 2 - 1 at home, scoring twice in last 6 mins to come from behind (yet again) 3 Jan 2018 - Bodin leaves for Preston. We're 14th. 13 Feb 2018 - We beat Rochdale 3 - 2 at home. This is the last time we score more than 2 goals in a game that season. Season peters out. Only 2 wins in the last 14 games. We finish 13th. 9 Aug 2018 - Striker Stefan Payne signs. FROM DC TO GC... 8 Dec 2018 - We lose 0 - 4 at home to Doncaster and sit 21st after 17 games. 17 goals scored.
13 Dec 2018 - Darrell sacked. Graham Coughlan takes over. After losing the first match away at Sunderland, we win 3 in a row over Christmas and only lose 1 of the next 7. Conceding only 5 goals 1 Feb 2019 - Striker Jonson Clarke-Harris signs We lose only 4 of the final 17 games and finish in 15th place - just 4 pts above relegation GC gets results but the football is turgid and he doesn't endear himself to many fans, complaining that we don't offer enough support. 14 Dec 2019 - A typically battling GC team performance sees us win 2 - 1 at Ipswich and reach the giddy heights of 4th in the table. 10 wins in the opening 19 games. GC gives a peculiar post-match interview, questioning how much further he can take us? GC resigns and joins Mansfield a division below. GARNERBALL... 23 Dec 2019 - Ben Garner hired as Manager, with a vision to play expansive football. 26 Dec 2019 - We lead Wimbledon 1 - 0 at home before HT and are briefly 2nd in the table. We go on to lose the game 1 - 2. We don't win any of the next 9 games, before finally beating Blackpool in mid-Feb. 10 Mar 2020 - JCH scores both in a 2 - 0 win over Sunderland. COVID curtails the season. We finish 14th. JCH never plays for us again. 27 Aug 2020 - JCH joins Peterboro. New season launches in Sep. 14 Nov 2020 - A 1 - 4 home defeat to Doncaster proves enough for the board and the trigger is pulled on Ben Garner - 6 wins in 33 games. 19 Nov 2020 - former Exeter boss Paul Tisdale joins the Gas. 2 Feb 2021 - 8 defeats in 13 games culminate in a 6 - 1 capitulation at Accrington. We were 4 - 1 down by HT. A similar scoreline at York saw the end of Mark McGhee's reign in 2012. Paul Trollope went after we lost 6 - 2 at Sheff Wed in 2010 - the season we were relegated to League Two. WHAT HOPE IS LEFT?? I fear relegation may have been sealed tonight, although I do feel we should keep faith in Tisdale. He inherited these players. Who could do a better job? The collapse in our results in the last year alone has been astounding. Although I wasn't a fan of GC, you couldn't argue with results. Ben Garner dismantled his side almost overnight and look where we are now. A squad with only 3 strikers. We have creative midfielders like Oztumer, Nicholson and Westbrooke but they look confused and totally devoid of confidence. This must be the hardest challenge Tisdale has ever faced. UTG. Completely agree, on all points. Once again though, I feel the rot starts from the very top. |
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,361
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 3, 2021 17:09:07 GMT
Away commentators both laugh and marvel at the naive end-to-end football Tisdale aspires to where he fields a team that ships goals for fun at one end and can't hit a barn door at the other. Nice on the eye though. Well, it would be when you're four up at halftime. Last night's commentator said surely Tisdale would be better off playing five at the back to reduce collateral damage, but hey ho, he wasn't complaining. I don't blame Garner. Like you say, he had a vision to play expansive football but went about it wielding a chainsaw on a side lying 4th in the table and replacing it with a tumbril load of young hopefuls that he could develop to get us into the championship. He was given ten games because a certain Geordie had a knee-jerk (when did a Geordie last move mountains?). I don't agree with the general consensus on GC's style of play. We UK migrants had the benefit of iFollow back then and could watch away games. It was anything but turgid. If you want turgid then you only have to go back to Darling Darrel's last stand where he dug a trench across midfield and stuck spiked poles in the ground. But nobody dares have a dig at a legend. I agree with Emporersuperbus's assessment of Garner: "I am beginning to think Garners teams started matches more composed organised and confident than Tisdales. We had a few tonkins under Garner this season, but there were some creditable performances too." Garner assembled a team suited to one-touch possession football and was replaced with a bloke that aspires to naive all-out attack. You can't blame the players for losing their mojo. DC put the pride & passion into each and every player and really got us our Rovers back. He was let down and very badly but that’s been done to death. Garner, his style of play may have worked at a higher level but this is the 3rd tier of English football and its physical with some big teams to play. Ridding the club of players like Tony Craig was just silly. He signed some very young and unproven players whilst getting rid of a few who could cut the mustard in this league. It was an unmitigated disaster and he is, factually, the worst manager we have had. Tisdale inherits what is, in essence, a development squad and is somehow expected to change them into better players. We all know how changing managers, so quickly, has ended. There is something badly wrong at the club. I will leave you to decide where the rot started. |
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,361
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 3, 2021 17:20:05 GMT
The problem we have is that we have a very willing investor who dreams of owning a successful football club. I do believe that evolution rather than revolution is something to aspire to. It has worked for Accrington who know their limitations but build a little each year. However the owner is very naïve. He needs someone to steady the ship for him and Starnes has dramatically failed in terms of the advice he has given. We need the likes of the directors who were rejected by Geoff Dunford and Nick Higgs as they threatened their position. The likes who had a similar thought process to Wael. But people who have the club at heart not see it as a job. As they eluded to - build a strong financial structure, not necessitating the requirement of an invested wedge of cash each year, and plan for the future without getting carried away. We need calm, clear headed, long term stability. People with experience of business but also have the long term interests of the club at heart. People who are prepared to speak their mind and not be afraid to have a different opinion from the owner. Wael also needs someone who can advise on players who looks at more than just getting what the manager wants. People who look at all aspects of a player, mental, physical and emotional attitude. We need players with the right ethic not just people who turn up and take a wage. Bobby Campbell, our old manager, told me that as soon as a player gets a regular wage irrespective of result, then it becomes a matter of motivation both internal (the player) and external (the manager/coaches). Finally he needs advice on managers. A manager who doesn't take prisoners yet understands the necessity to understand what motivates each individual. Some need bollocking, some mentoring, some cajoling and so on. Above all he needs to promote a team ethic similar to that of DC when he was here. A team with a battler, a calm head, a motivator, a ball player, together with the spine of decent players. The current team has some quality but it seems totally disjointed, unmotivated and certainly don't seem to have a team ethic or care for the badge. Of course if those who constantly criticise Wael (and yes as above he has his faults) and want rid could come up with some investors or alternative owners then I would be delighted to hear who they are.... Until they provide that info they need to stop constantly undermining the fanbase with negativity thrown in for the sake of it. As one of my old managers used to say, don't bring me problems, bring me solutions. But our owner doesn’t like to have people around him who speak their minds, if it is not what he agrees with, for example SH wanted Cotterill as our manager, after DC. We all know how that ended and I would say it was not very gentlemanly in how he was sacked and not even the cursory we wish you well in the future message. |
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,361
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 3, 2021 17:44:24 GMT
And so would I - be delighted I mean. As you infer, a lot of criticism, no credible solutions. I was going to reply to you, Pop Harris and Cheshire with a lighthearted post about not being able to comment because my typing finger has gone septic but I know you all take this seriously so I'll do as well. In November 2019 I was made aware that the Fruit Market Stadium Plan was falling apart because Wael would not accept an elimination or substantial reduction of his stake in Rovers and that was a requirement for it to proceed. Subsequently I learned that another stadium scheme on the northern outskirts of Bristol had been put to Wael and very nearly moved forward but, for unknown reasons, he suddenly pulled out without explanation. And I also felt the reasons given by Wael for the failure of the UWE Stadium scheme mark II seemed spurious at the time and that a far more likely explanation was that he was unable or unwilling to provide the financial bond required by UWE. So, believing that Wael's desire to retain control of Rovers and his family's desire to get some of their money back was preventing Rovers getting a new stadium, in December 2019 I tried to come up with a credible solution. The idea was to provide a means of satisfying him and his family whilst allowing Rovers to move forward with a new stadium and a new business strategy. December 19th 2019" Please blame Holmes on the other forum for provoking me into responding to a question about the length of lease apparently being offered by the Fruit Market Developers for their proposed stadium. I broached the subject there earlier with my “Groundshare” theme but didn’t get far so I’ve had another go and thought it might be of interest over here. This is the cunning plan. 1) We know developers want the Mem and we know Hani and his family want to cut their losses but Wael wants to retain a stake. 2. If Wael wants to retain a stake but the Mem has to be sold to repay his family then we need somewhere to play in the short and long terms but we also need cash to fund the business 3. The best way to attract cash from outside sources would be to have a convincing plan in place and for Wael to show his commitment to that plan by reinvesting his share of the Mem sale proceeds into the club as equity. 4. So the steps are : a) Agree a provisional and conditional sale of the Mem to developers b) Agree a provisional groundshare with a suitable local club c). Commission Deloitte or other consultants to draw up a business plan for the club based on leasing the Fruit Market Stadium and using their expertise to determine the minimum lease period necessary for that plan to work d) Go to the market using reputable agents and the comprehensive business plan with the objective of obtaining an investment of circa 19 million in equity for a 76% stake based upon Wael reinvesting 4 million for a 16% stake. (8% held by others) e) With the strength of a company which will be capitalized at 23 million go to the City Council and the Fruit Market Developers and say to them “you want us in, this is what we need to come in, so let’s work together to make it happen” Now things have moved on significantly since then, and not in a good way, but there is no point in going over all that again. When Cheshire says Wael needs to take advice from experienced people who will not shirk from speaking their mind I agree wholeheartedly with him. But the problem is that we started off five years ago with some cracking photo's of Wael with exactly these type of experienced people but one by one they have all left and been replaced by people who Wael "trusts" to agree with him. To find a credible solution to the mess we are in Wael needs to want a solution and be prepared to make the sacrifices that solution will demand but does he want to ? The reason I post about this from time to time is because I believe Wael will only try to find a solution if fans press him to find one. If we keep thanking him for pouring money into the club and encouraging him to believe that he's doing nothing wrong and it's always someone else's fault then Wael will carry on making the same mistakes again and again until the inevitable happens. Absolutely spot on swissgas . I should have read the entire thread first and I would not have posted , as you have already answered. We do need people to question and to criticise , when it is obvious that things are not evolving, in fact I’d say we were doing the opposite. |
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,604
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Post by eppinggas on Feb 3, 2021 19:05:26 GMT
And so would I - be delighted I mean. As you infer, a lot of criticism, no credible solutions. I was going to reply to you, Pop Harris and Cheshire with a lighthearted post about not being able to comment because my typing finger has gone septic but I know you all take this seriously so I'll do as well. This is the cunning plan. 1) We know developers want the Mem and we know Hani and his family want to cut their losses but Wael wants to retain a stake. 2. If Wael wants to retain a stake but the Mem has to be sold to repay his family then we need somewhere to play in the short and long terms but we also need cash to fund the business 3. The best way to attract cash from outside sources would be to have a convincing plan in place and for Wael to show his commitment to that plan by reinvesting his share of the Mem sale proceeds into the club as equity. 4. So the steps are : a) Agree a provisional and conditional sale of the Mem to developers b) Agree a provisional groundshare with a suitable local club c). Commission Deloitte or other consultants to draw up a business plan for the club based on leasing the Fruit Market Stadium and using their expertise to determine the minimum lease period necessary for that plan to work d) Go to the market using reputable agents and the comprehensive business plan with the objective of obtaining an investment of circa 19 million in equity for a 76% stake based upon Wael reinvesting 4 million for a 16% stake. (8% held by others) e) With the strength of a company which will be capitalized at 23 million go to the City Council and the Fruit Market Developers and say to them “you want us in, this is what we need to come in, so let’s work together to make it happen” Now things have moved on significantly since then, and not in a good way, but there is no point in going over all that again. When Cheshire says Wael needs to take advice from experienced people who will not shirk from speaking their mind I agree wholeheartedly with him. But the problem is that we started off five years ago with some cracking photo's of Wael with exactly these type of experienced people but one by one they have all left and been replaced by people who Wael "trusts" to agree with him. To find a credible solution to the mess we are in Wael needs to want a solution and be prepared to make the sacrifices that solution will demand but does he want to ? The reason I post about this from time to time is because I believe Wael will only try to find a solution if fans press him to find one. If we keep thanking him for pouring money into the club and encouraging him to believe that he's doing nothing wrong and it's always someone else's fault then Wael will carry on making the same mistakes again and again until the inevitable happens. Swiss - how close have you got to delivering that plan to Wael? Looks reasonable enough to me. Or do you think you have jeopardised the chance of a 1 to 1 meeting with him due to the amount of criticism (to be fair usually fair and fact-based) aimed at him? One thing for sure, Wael takes criticism very much to heart. |
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Post by gasandproud on Feb 3, 2021 19:06:15 GMT
I was going to reply to you, Pop Harris and Cheshire with a lighthearted post about not being able to comment because my typing finger has gone septic but I know you all take this seriously so I'll do as well. In November 2019 I was made aware that the Fruit Market Stadium Plan was falling apart because Wael would not accept an elimination or substantial reduction of his stake in Rovers and that was a requirement for it to proceed. Subsequently I learned that another stadium scheme on the northern outskirts of Bristol had been put to Wael and very nearly moved forward but, for unknown reasons, he suddenly pulled out without explanation. And I also felt the reasons given by Wael for the failure of the UWE Stadium scheme mark II seemed spurious at the time and that a far more likely explanation was that he was unable or unwilling to provide the financial bond required by UWE. So, believing that Wael's desire to retain control of Rovers and his family's desire to get some of their money back was preventing Rovers getting a new stadium, in December 2019 I tried to come up with a credible solution. The idea was to provide a means of satisfying him and his family whilst allowing Rovers to move forward with a new stadium and a new business strategy. December 19th 2019" Please blame Holmes on the other forum for provoking me into responding to a question about the length of lease apparently being offered by the Fruit Market Developers for their proposed stadium. I broached the subject there earlier with my “Groundshare” theme but didn’t get far so I’ve had another go and thought it might be of interest over here. This is the cunning plan. 1) We know developers want the Mem and we know Hani and his family want to cut their losses but Wael wants to retain a stake. 2. If Wael wants to retain a stake but the Mem has to be sold to repay his family then we need somewhere to play in the short and long terms but we also need cash to fund the business 3. The best way to attract cash from outside sources would be to have a convincing plan in place and for Wael to show his commitment to that plan by reinvesting his share of the Mem sale proceeds into the club as equity. 4. So the steps are : a) Agree a provisional and conditional sale of the Mem to developers b) Agree a provisional groundshare with a suitable local club c). Commission Deloitte or other consultants to draw up a business plan for the club based on leasing the Fruit Market Stadium and using their expertise to determine the minimum lease period necessary for that plan to work d) Go to the market using reputable agents and the comprehensive business plan with the objective of obtaining an investment of circa 19 million in equity for a 76% stake based upon Wael reinvesting 4 million for a 16% stake. (8% held by others) e) With the strength of a company which will be capitalized at 23 million go to the City Council and the Fruit Market Developers and say to them “you want us in, this is what we need to come in, so let’s work together to make it happen” Now things have moved on significantly since then, and not in a good way, but there is no point in going over all that again. When Cheshire says Wael needs to take advice from experienced people who will not shirk from speaking their mind I agree wholeheartedly with him. But the problem is that we started off five years ago with some cracking photo's of Wael with exactly these type of experienced people but one by one they have all left and been replaced by people who Wael "trusts" to agree with him. To find a credible solution to the mess we are in Wael needs to want a solution and be prepared to make the sacrifices that solution will demand but does he want to ? The reason I post about this from time to time is because I believe Wael will only try to find a solution if fans press him to find one. If we keep thanking him for pouring money into the club and encouraging him to believe that he's doing nothing wrong and it's always someone else's fault then Wael will carry on making the same mistakes again and again until the inevitable happens. Absolutely spot on swissgas . I should have read the entire thread first and I would not have posted , as you have already answered. We do need people to question and to criticise , when it is obvious that things are not evolving, in fact I’d say we were doing the opposite. |
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Post by gasandproud on Feb 3, 2021 19:41:47 GMT
Absolutely spot on swissgas . I should have read the entire thread first and I would not have posted , as you have already answered. We do need people to question and to criticise , when it is obvious that things are not evolving, in fact I’d say we were doing the opposite. I was one of the two local Gasheads who brought that second scheme that Swiss talks about to Rovers. Both of us are long-standing Gas Heads and in the not too distant future you will likely see details of what may go ahead without Rovers. Most sensible supporters may ask why on earth Rovers wouldn’t be involved. Since the initial ‘very close but no cigar’ moment that Swiss mentions I have tried, tried, tried, tried and tried again to re engage with the club and just meet excuse after excuse to the point it’s unprofessional and quite frankly laughable. There is absolutely no reason for the club not at least to have re engaged in discussions but alas it is not to be and we are now at the point which it probably is too late. I am incredibly frustrated and disappointed (because I am so passionate about our club). I have come off of social media for the fear I say something I regret! Clearly I am not going to go into detail (I can’t) but anyone who knows me knows the lengths we have gone to and the 18 months to two years of hard work we have put in. Those who know me will also know I am not in the business of making something like this up. I have toyed and toyed for months over whether to say anything but I feel at this point supporters do need to know that the club have had at least one credible opportunity to progress with a plan for the future. I suspect (and I can only suspect as I can’t say this factually) that the current board who I believe are salaried individuals wouldn’t necessarily want progress for the club through fear that it may mean their future isn’t so secure. None of them are Gasheads as far as I am aware (so I don’t actually blame them). All of the above aside just think about that set up.... a board full of salaried employees without an objective / unbiased view on the overall situation... How on earth can that be good for the progress of the club? I believe the line used about us / our scheme was a lack of credibility. That is difficult to answer at this stage because I guess the proof of how credible we are / the scheme is will depend on whether it gets over the line. What I can say is that if and when it comes into the public domain we can be judged on that point but the people and stakeholders so far engaged would not be deemed not credible so it is obviously serious enough for other large organisations to be interested! Other than a deep sense of regret on my part that I couldn’t get Rovers involved I still desperately want the club to progress. I have learned a lot personally and it’s fair to say mistakes have also been made on my side as well. Having seen lasts night debacle and looking at the overall mess we are in I just feel a sense of sadness that we are on a seemingly downward spiral yet again. |
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,361
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 3, 2021 19:57:17 GMT
I was one of the two local Gasheads who brought that second scheme that Swiss talks about to Rovers. Both of us are long-standing Gas Heads and in the not too distant future you will likely see details of what may go ahead without Rovers. Most sensible supporters may ask why on earth Rovers wouldn’t be involved. Since the initial ‘very close but no cigar’ moment that Swiss mentions I have tried, tried, tried, tried and tried again to re engage with the club and just meet excuse after excuse to the point it’s unprofessional and quite frankly laughable. There is absolutely no reason for the club not at least to have re engaged in discussions but alas it is not to be and we are now at the point which it probably is too late. I am incredibly frustrated and disappointed (because I am so passionate about our club). I have come off of social media for the fear I say something I regret! Clearly I am not going to go into detail (I can’t) but anyone who knows me knows the lengths we have gone to and the 18 months to two years of hard work we have put in. Those who know me will also know I am not in the business of making something like this up. I have toyed and toyed for months over whether to say anything but I feel at this point supporters do need to know that the club have had at least one credible opportunity to progress with a plan for the future. I suspect (and I can only suspect as I can’t say this factually) that the current board who I believe are salaried individuals wouldn’t necessarily want progress for the club through fear that it may mean their future isn’t so secure. None of them are Gasheads as far as I am aware (so I don’t actually blame them). All of the above aside just think about that set up.... a board full of salaried employees without an objective / unbiased view on the overall situation... How on earth can that be good for the progress of the club? I believe the line used about us / our scheme was a lack of credibility. That is difficult to answer at this stage because I guess the proof of how credible we are / the scheme is will depend on whether it gets over the line. What I can say is that if and when it comes into the public domain we can be judged on that point but the people and stakeholders so far engaged would not be deemed not credible so it is obviously serious enough for other large organisations to be interested! Other than a deep sense of regret on my part that I couldn’t get Rovers involved I still desperately want the club to progress. I have learned a lot personally and it’s fair to say mistakes have also been made on my side as well. Having seen lasts night debacle and looking at the overall mess we are in I just feel a sense of sadness that we are on a seemingly downward spiral yet again. I read your post and it doesn’t surprise me, one bit, that the club didn’t engage with you. As you rightly point out there is no true gas on the board and they would put their own interests before going ahead with something that could threaten that position. I know how abusive people can get if you question and try to ask questions, I got blocked by WAQ for just that. I wish you all the luck needed and it would be fantastic if the club did come onboard after you show that not only is it credible but that you have got to the point of being able to do it. I feel the same as you but I also feel alienated from the club I thought I knew. Wishing you all the very best |
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