Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2019 12:39:11 GMT
Oh go on, proselytise just a little bit, you know I like it Not a chance. Sometimes knowing when to say nothing is an art form The problem is, every Christian has a duty under 1 Peter 3.15. I just wish that someone could prove that one of the many thousands of Gods worshiped down the ages was real, then all of the bloodshed could stop.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 28, 2019 20:36:24 GMT
You can't prove a faith.
Unless you like George Michael.
If a faith is proved, it is no longer a faith and becomes a fact.
GC is a prime example....
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Sept 29, 2019 9:49:59 GMT
You can't prove a faith. Unless you like George Michael. If a faith is proved, it is no longer a faith and becomes a fact. GC is a prime example.... That is spot on. I remember my mama used to try to explain to me that it was all a test and those who did not have faith, were doomed. I look back at that & think , how the hell do you tell a small child such horror stories then expect them to be fully grounded and well adjusted human beings ? As I said, I was the lucky one of the 4 boys in that I wasn’t forced to go to church nor did I have to go to the Polish school, after service. My brothers were not so lucky. It’s all so very sad. Long story
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Sept 29, 2019 9:53:41 GMT
Not a chance. Sometimes knowing when to say nothing is an art form The problem is, every Christian has a duty under 1 Peter 3.15. I just wish that someone could prove that one of the many thousands of Gods worshiped down the ages was real, then all of the bloodshed could stop. IF they believe the bible then yes. I do sometime quote from certain passages but not to preach. Anyway, this is a football forum & so I shall say no more as I find the whole subject quite upsetting, given what happened to my family and none of these wonderful churchgoers even bothered to phone, let alone visit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2019 10:06:18 GMT
You can't prove a faith. Unless you like George Michael. If a faith is proved, it is no longer a faith and becomes a fact. GC is a prime example.... Which brings us nicely to the actual point. We all, I presume, want to believe as many true things as possible and discard untruths? In what way is faith related to truth? I'll save you some time thinking about this, because I already have, and have listened to others who have also, people like Sagan and Dillahunty, these are people who have dedicated their lives to seeking out what's actually true, faith simply is not a pathway to truth. It's an excuse that people use, often to justify irrational beliefs. You are wrong to say that because someone had faith in something and it was proven that the faith became a fact. Firstly, your use of language is a bit loose, but what's actually happened there is that something that was always a fact has remained a fact, the person's faith has nothing to do with it. With our manager, nobody has 'faith' in him to do anything, people may have reasonable expectation based on previous experience and available evidence, but only a complete idiot would form a judgement on a football manager on faith alone. Yes, not so much Wham, but all of George's solo stuff was good.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Sept 29, 2019 10:33:33 GMT
You can't prove a faith. Unless you like George Michael. If a faith is proved, it is no longer a faith and becomes a fact. GC is a prime example.... Which brings us nicely to the actual point. We all, I presume, want to believe as many true things as possible and discard untruths? In what way is faith related to truth? I'll save you some time thinking about this, because I already have, and have listened to others who have also, people like Sagan and Dillahunty, these are people who have dedicated their lives to seeking out what's actually true, faith simply is not a pathway to truth. It's an excuse that people use, often to justify irrational beliefs. You are wrong to say that because someone had faith in something and it was proven that the faith became a fact. Firstly, your use of language is a bit loose, but what's actually happened there is that something that was always a fact has remained a fact, the person's faith has nothing to do with it. With our manager, nobody has 'faith' in him to do anything, people may have reasonable expectation based on previous experience and available evidence, but only a complete idiot would form a judgement on a football manager on faith alone. Yes, not so much Wham, but all of George's solo stuff was good. Agree on George Michael. The album older is my favourite and I never was a fan but that album has substance and the production values are superb
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2019 11:47:26 GMT
Jesus Christ.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 29, 2019 14:23:45 GMT
You can't prove a faith. Unless you like George Michael. If a faith is proved, it is no longer a faith and becomes a fact. GC is a prime example.... Which brings us nicely to the actual point. We all, I presume, want to believe as many true things as possible and discard untruths? In what way is faith related to truth? I'll save you some time thinking about this, because I already have, and have listened to others who have also, people like Sagan and Dillahunty, these are people who have dedicated their lives to seeking out what's actually true, faith simply is not a pathway to truth. It's an excuse that people use, often to justify irrational beliefs. You are wrong to say that because someone had faith in something and it was proven that the faith became a fact. Firstly, your use of language is a bit loose, but what's actually happened there is that something that was always a fact has remained a fact, the person's faith has nothing to do with it. With our manager, nobody has 'faith' in him to do anything, people may have reasonable expectation based on previous experience and available evidence, but only a complete idiot would form a judgement on a football manager on faith alone. Yes, not so much Wham, but all of George's solo stuff was good. Disagree. All you are pointing out is a fact was a fact all along (with hindsight) before it was proven or discovered. Contemporary, it can be construed a faith, and a faith is a confidence or trust in something. That trust can be won or lost depending on individuals' strength in their faith. Language isn't loose. Or, it's not intended to be. I see it as separate idealogies with a crossover and linkage. Disagree with your comments on GC, I think a percentage of fans do have faith in him. Faith is a strong doctrine in belief without proof, but slowly but surely GC is starting to prove himself.....we are 7th so far and could really be higher if some individual errors hadn't had happened....but that's a fact. The conclusion to this fact is ironically faith is increased by many more fans. Me being one of them. A bit philosophical, but hey most of us have that to a greater or lesser extent, but I hope we can all agree if it's red, it stinks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2019 15:21:06 GMT
Which brings us nicely to the actual point. We all, I presume, want to believe as many true things as possible and discard untruths? In what way is faith related to truth? I'll save you some time thinking about this, because I already have, and have listened to others who have also, people like Sagan and Dillahunty, these are people who have dedicated their lives to seeking out what's actually true, faith simply is not a pathway to truth. It's an excuse that people use, often to justify irrational beliefs. You are wrong to say that because someone had faith in something and it was proven that the faith became a fact. Firstly, your use of language is a bit loose, but what's actually happened there is that something that was always a fact has remained a fact, the person's faith has nothing to do with it. With our manager, nobody has 'faith' in him to do anything, people may have reasonable expectation based on previous experience and available evidence, but only a complete idiot would form a judgement on a football manager on faith alone. Yes, not so much Wham, but all of George's solo stuff was good. Disagree. All you are pointing out is a fact was a fact all along (with hindsight) before it was proven or discovered. Contemporary, it can be construed a faith, and a faith is a confidence or trust in something. That trust can be won or lost depending on individuals' strength in their faith. Language isn't loose. Or, it's not intended to be. I see it as separate idealogies with a crossover and linkage. Disagree with your comments on GC, I think a percentage of fans do have faith in him. Faith is a strong doctrine in belief without proof, but slowly but surely GC is starting to prove himself.....we are 7th so far and could really be higher if some individual errors hadn't had happened....but that's a fact. The conclusion to this fact is ironically faith is increased by many more fans. Me being one of them. A bit philosophical, but hey most of us have that to a greater or lesser extent, but I hope we can all agree if it's red, it stinks. Sorry but that's just a word salad. Faith is a belief without evidence, with evidence it's no longer faith, therefore anybody can have faith in literally anything, just claim that you believe it to be so. You can of course have a belief supported by evidence, but they are two entirely different and mutually exclusive things. You go on to demonstrate this and argue against yourself when you say that as results continue to be favourable and points are won, people have 'faith' in the manager's ability. This is a common confusion. I'll give an example. I don't have faith that my TV will turn on when the remote control button is pressed, or that my car will start, I expect it to, but that's a reasonable expectation based on experience. A clear understanding of the meaning of faith, trust, expectation etc would help before we can have these conversations. That's why I was saying that your use of language was loose. It's not philosophy or psychology, it's just understanding what words mean and trying to use them properly. Anyway, I don't see why we need to play this ridiculous game of celestial hide and seek, it's been going on for 2020 years, OK God, you win. All you need to do now is reveal yourself in a way that each of us can understand and all of the bloodshed can stop.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 29, 2019 16:43:43 GMT
Disagree. All you are pointing out is a fact was a fact all along (with hindsight) before it was proven or discovered. Contemporary, it can be construed a faith, and a faith is a confidence or trust in something. That trust can be won or lost depending on individuals' strength in their faith. Language isn't loose. Or, it's not intended to be. I see it as separate idealogies with a crossover and linkage. Disagree with your comments on GC, I think a percentage of fans do have faith in him. Faith is a strong doctrine in belief without proof, but slowly but surely GC is starting to prove himself.....we are 7th so far and could really be higher if some individual errors hadn't had happened....but that's a fact. The conclusion to this fact is ironically faith is increased by many more fans. Me being one of them. A bit philosophical, but hey most of us have that to a greater or lesser extent, but I hope we can all agree if it's red, it stinks. Sorry but that's just a word salad. Faith is a belief without evidence, with evidence it's no longer faith, therefore anybody can have faith in literally anything, just claim that you believe it to be so. You can of course have a belief supported by evidence, but they are two entirely different and mutually exclusive things. You go on to demonstrate this and argue against yourself when you say that as results continue to be favourable and points are won, people have 'faith' in the manager's ability. This is a common confusion. I'll give an example. I don't have faith that my TV will turn on when the remote control button is pressed, or that my car will start, I expect it to, but that's a reasonable expectation based on experience. A clear understanding of the meaning of faith, trust, expectation etc would help before we can have these conversations. That's why I was saying that your use of language was loose. It's not philosophy or psychology, it's just understanding what words mean and trying to use them properly. Anyway, I don't see why we need to play this ridiculous game of celestial hide and seek, it's been going on for 2020 years, OK God, you win. All you need to do now is reveal yourself in a way that each of us can understand and all of the bloodshed can stop. Er, this thing about faith been going on much longer than 2020 years, me ole mate... But hey, this is your thread and you've got the right to be wrong! So there! When your car don't start in the morning, don't blame me..... just have faith someone paid the homestart premium, or fix it yourself. I have faith that Nichols will score again this season, but based on reasonable evidence I think there's more chance of a second coming...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2019 17:41:16 GMT
Sorry but that's just a word salad. Faith is a belief without evidence, with evidence it's no longer faith, therefore anybody can have faith in literally anything, just claim that you believe it to be so. You can of course have a belief supported by evidence, but they are two entirely different and mutually exclusive things. You go on to demonstrate this and argue against yourself when you say that as results continue to be favourable and points are won, people have 'faith' in the manager's ability. This is a common confusion. I'll give an example. I don't have faith that my TV will turn on when the remote control button is pressed, or that my car will start, I expect it to, but that's a reasonable expectation based on experience. A clear understanding of the meaning of faith, trust, expectation etc would help before we can have these conversations. That's why I was saying that your use of language was loose. It's not philosophy or psychology, it's just understanding what words mean and trying to use them properly. Anyway, I don't see why we need to play this ridiculous game of celestial hide and seek, it's been going on for 2020 years, OK God, you win. All you need to do now is reveal yourself in a way that each of us can understand and all of the bloodshed can stop. Er, this thing about faith been going on much longer than 2020 years, me ole mate... But hey, this is your thread and you've got the right to be wrong! So there! When your car don't start in the morning, don't blame me..... just have faith someone paid the homestart premium, or fix it yourself. I have faith that Nichols will score again this season, but based on reasonable evidence I think there's more chance of a second coming... Again, no faith needed for homestart, or applicable, the premium has either been paid or it hasn't, where does faith come in to it? I have these things diarised, that seems to work quite well. More loose use of language. What's 'reasonable evidence'? I mentioned reasonable expectation based on evidence, with that evidence being past experience. Yes, you are right, Jaweh is just one of many Gods made up, he's been hiding for 2000 years now, plenty came before him, some have been made up after him. And we are still making this stuff up, just ask Tom Cruise or John Travolta.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2019 18:04:07 GMT
While once we all debated, now I see that three's a crowd regardless of my stance. Another thread on Guzzler now's returned to Bambi and his O2's sweet romance.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2019 18:54:32 GMT
While once we all debated, now I see that three's a crowd regardless of my stance. Another thread on Guzzler now's returned to Bambi and his O2's sweet romance.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 30, 2019 6:19:54 GMT
While once we all debated, now I see that three's a crowd regardless of my stance. Another thread on Guzzler now's returned to Bambi and his O2's sweet romance. Three's never a crowd.....as Basil said once: "if you don't like duck, you're out of luck!"
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Post by mangogas15 on Sept 30, 2019 9:43:08 GMT
While once we all debated, now I see that three's a crowd regardless of my stance. Another thread on Guzzler now's returned to Bambi and his O2's sweet romance. Three's never a crowd.....as Basil said once: "if you don't like duck, you're out of luck!" Mr and Mrs Twichen..
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 30, 2019 15:36:18 GMT
Haha!!
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Oct 1, 2019 10:38:53 GMT
Three's never a crowd.....as Basil said once: "if you don't like duck, you're out of luck!" Mr and Mrs Twichen.. Please do explain as I don’t get that reference, at all. Thanks in advance
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Post by splitter on Oct 1, 2019 11:32:23 GMT
Please do explain as I don’t get that reference, at all. Thanks in advance What's duck surprise?
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
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Post by eppinggas on Oct 1, 2019 11:40:33 GMT
Please do explain as I don’t get that reference, at all. Thanks in advance Fawlty Towers Jools. "Gourmet Evening" :-)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2019 19:23:50 GMT
Can this thread be merged with 'For Bamber', please Mods? See what happens with just 1 Saturday without a game! It's true that idle matchdays cause us pain, so I can't blame you citing Gods for laughs. The players still somehow sustain some strain, especially our centre forward's calfs. If Gods were Gas supporters we might be instead without Tom Nicholls' injured knee.
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