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Post by droitwichgas on Apr 6, 2020 17:16:21 GMT
Agreed but if the city council have made it clear they want a stadium there then maybe that will focus some minds BCC may have wanted an Arena there, but it's hard to see how they benefit from just a stadium. Even if it ends up acting as both now, they'll have to split some potential revenue / artists with the Filton Arena, which BTW, also has other stuff attached so that you can arrive before an event and find plenty to do, also YTL have by far the better location. They already have their car park and park-and ride plans sorted, the site in St Phillips will be a nightmare to get in to on a weekday evening and a total bottle neck to get away from after every event. I know this isn't what a Rovers supporter is supposed to be saying, but pretending that St Phillips is a sensible idea is as crazy as being asked to claim that Sainsbury's would have increased the takings of existing businesses on Gloucester Rd. I can't see there's ever been any suggestion the Arena was going to be built on the FM site, the Arena was always going to be built on Temple Island the land L&G have got permission to build offices etc. Assuming there's a grain of truth in the rumours you can only assume BCC have said to the developers that they want a football stadium included within the plans for the area. Unless Sam Frost has got it totally wrong then it seems a deal for the land has been agreed. Whether the location makes any sense to us is not really relevant. |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2020 18:38:10 GMT
BCC may have wanted an Arena there, but it's hard to see how they benefit from just a stadium. Even if it ends up acting as both now, they'll have to split some potential revenue / artists with the Filton Arena, which BTW, also has other stuff attached so that you can arrive before an event and find plenty to do, also YTL have by far the better location. They already have their car park and park-and ride plans sorted, the site in St Phillips will be a nightmare to get in to on a weekday evening and a total bottle neck to get away from after every event. I know this isn't what a Rovers supporter is supposed to be saying, but pretending that St Phillips is a sensible idea is as crazy as being asked to claim that Sainsbury's would have increased the takings of existing businesses on Gloucester Rd. I can't see there's ever been any suggestion the Arena was going to be built on the FM site, the Arena was always going to be built on Temple Island the land L&G have got permission to build offices etc. Assuming there's a grain of truth in the rumours you can only assume BCC have said to the developers that they want a football stadium included within the plans for the area. Unless Sam Frost has got it totally wrong then it seems a deal for the land has been agreed. Whether the location makes any sense to us is not really relevant. It's what the stadium can be used for that makes it viable. The football side of things is going to lose money. That's probably not a contentious statement. YTL have rendered it even more of a non-starter than it already was. Anyway, these things don't 'take time', if the will is there, the finance is there and the numbers work then things move quickly. Just ask Lansdown. |
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bluetornados
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 15,867 
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Post by bluetornados on Apr 6, 2020 19:47:41 GMT
I can remember going to the Cross Keys pub in Yate about 20 years ago and hearing brilliant ideas and such about our new stadium from BRFC reps and officials.
If it's written somewhere in the stars then children of Rovers fans yet to be born might just get to see us in a new arena someday.
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Post by droitwichgas on Apr 6, 2020 20:31:44 GMT
I can't see there's ever been any suggestion the Arena was going to be built on the FM site, the Arena was always going to be built on Temple Island the land L&G have got permission to build offices etc. Assuming there's a grain of truth in the rumours you can only assume BCC have said to the developers that they want a football stadium included within the plans for the area. Unless Sam Frost has got it totally wrong then it seems a deal for the land has been agreed. Whether the location makes any sense to us is not really relevant. It's what the stadium can be used for that makes it viable. The football side of things is going to lose money. That's probably not a contentious statement. YTL have rendered it even more of a non-starter than it already was. Anyway, these things don't 'take time', if the will is there, the finance is there and the numbers work then things move quickly. Just ask Lansdown. I can't see how the Arena being built in Filton affects plans for a football stadium, if they held concerts there then it would only be a limited number in the summer, the arena will be used 52 weeks a year. I've no idea what's planned for the FM if it's just a stadium I agree if should tale long but if it includes more of St Phillips then it could take massive planning, Boots Island in Nottingham has taken years. |
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Apr 6, 2020 22:43:28 GMT
I've been quite impressed with Sam Frost in all of this. Seems to be actually doing some digging around to find alternative sources and perspectives and trying to put the pieces together rather than just accepting the party line from all participants which is what the Post has done in the past. Doesn't mean he's right, and he may yet get his fingers burned here, but at least he seems to be trying. From up here I find his contributions quite informative which I've not really said about anything the Post has produced in a long time.
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Post by a more piratey game on Apr 6, 2020 22:47:11 GMT
I've been quite impressed with Sam Frost in all of this. Seems to be actually doing some digging around to find alternative sources and perspectives and trying to put the pieces together rather than just accepting the party line from all participants which is what the Post has done in the past. Doesn't mean he's right, and he may yet get his fingers burned here, but at least he seems to be trying. From up here I find his contributions quite informative which I've not really said about anything the Post has produced in a long time. fully agree. But apparently he's just been furloughed, along with a large % of the rest of the Post staff |
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Apr 6, 2020 23:01:12 GMT
I've been quite impressed with Sam Frost in all of this. Seems to be actually doing some digging around to find alternative sources and perspectives and trying to put the pieces together rather than just accepting the party line from all participants which is what the Post has done in the past. Doesn't mean he's right, and he may yet get his fingers burned here, but at least he seems to be trying. From up here I find his contributions quite informative which I've not really said about anything the Post has produced in a long time. fully agree. But apparently he's just been furloughed, along with a large % of the rest of the Post staff Oh dear - that might put us even more in the dark then. This could easily be the death knell of local press, which is a bad thing for all kinds of reasons. Social Media may be able to replace the local advertising and community organising role of local papers but itr can't effectively replicate the accountability aspect for local authorities/law courts/businesses/etc for thing that would not make the national news. They were already on their knees - 3 papers in my area have gone under in the last 2 years and another has gone to one day a week. |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2020 18:54:52 GMT
Please forgive this if in bad taste, but we are owned by (and therefore exist at the pleasure of) a wealthy family, and I have waited three-and-a-half months before this speculation. It seems to me, that things have changed. BRFC is still owned by Dwane Sports, but Dwane Sports is now Wael Al Qadi, right? Dwane Sports was the Al Qadi family, but I have read that after the elder Al Qadi's sad death, the inheritance was so divided that Wael now owns Dwane Sports outright, holding some personal wealth therein. This, I presume, is why millions are now being spent on training ground development. I am delighted by the news of this. I only wish they will rename it from The Colony. Bad taste or no, it seems the execution of the elder Al Qadi's last will and testament, or the families subsequent choices, have left Dwane Sports in the hands of the football fan, not the banker. I presume this makes new ownership less likely, but investment more so? |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2020 19:10:01 GMT
Please forgive this if in bad taste, but we are owned by (and therefore exist at the pleasure of) a wealthy family, and I have waited three-and-a-half months before this speculation. It seems to me, that things have changed. BRFC is still owned by Dwane Sports, but Dwane Sports is now Wael Al Qadi, right? Dwane Sports was the Al Qadi family, but I have read that after the elder Al Qadi's sad death, the inheritance was so divided that Wael now owns Dwane Sports outright, holding some personal wealth therein. This, I presume, is why millions are now being spent on training ground development. I am delighted by the news of this. I only wish they will rename it from The Colony. Bad taste or no, it seems the execution of the elder Al Qadi's last will and testament, or the families subsequent choices, have left Dwane Sports in the hands of the football fan, not the banker. I presume this makes new ownership less likely, but investment more so? Sounds about right to me. The wallet has been filled again. The question now is, what next? A. Carry on as before until new funds are exhausted. B. Slash every budget in sight. Garner's madness kind of suggests that this is where we are heading, a little bit of infrastructure could be seen as part of a plan, but also could assist with any exit strategy. C. Ask for help from people who know how to run a L1 club. Something else? |
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Peter Parker
Global Moderator
Richard Walker
You have been sentenced to DELETION!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,920
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Post by Peter Parker on Jun 10, 2020 7:45:32 GMT
Is June, the new October
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,631
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Post by eppinggas on Jun 10, 2020 8:14:59 GMT
Please forgive this if in bad taste, but we are owned by (and therefore exist at the pleasure of) a wealthy family, and I have waited three-and-a-half months before this speculation. It seems to me, that things have changed. BRFC is still owned by Dwane Sports, but Dwane Sports is now Wael Al Qadi, right? Dwane Sports was the Al Qadi family, but I have read that after the elder Al Qadi's sad death, the inheritance was so divided that Wael now owns Dwane Sports outright, holding some personal wealth therein. This, I presume, is why millions are now being spent on training ground development. I am delighted by the news of this. I only wish they will rename it from The Colony. Bad taste or no, it seems the execution of the elder Al Qadi's last will and testament, or the families subsequent choices, have left Dwane Sports in the hands of the football fan, not the banker. I presume this makes new ownership less likely, but investment more so? This is the conclusion I came to... And I would have to say, it's very welcome news - so well done Wael Al-Qadi. |
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Jun 10, 2020 11:47:05 GMT
Please forgive this if in bad taste, but we are owned by (and therefore exist at the pleasure of) a wealthy family, and I have waited three-and-a-half months before this speculation. It seems to me, that things have changed. BRFC is still owned by Dwane Sports, but Dwane Sports is now Wael Al Qadi, right? Dwane Sports was the Al Qadi family, but I have read that after the elder Al Qadi's sad death, the inheritance was so divided that Wael now owns Dwane Sports outright, holding some personal wealth therein. This, I presume, is why millions are now being spent on training ground development. I am delighted by the news of this. I only wish they will rename it from The Colony. Bad taste or no, it seems the execution of the elder Al Qadi's last will and testament, or the families subsequent choices, have left Dwane Sports in the hands of the football fan, not the banker. I presume this makes new ownership less likely, but investment more so? This is the conclusion I came to... And I would have to say, it's very welcome news - so well done Wael Al-Qadi. OK I see how it might get some things moving and certainly it is good news on the training ground front. But;
1. Go back a few months and there seemed a general consensus that Wael was basically well intentioned but quite incompetent and a little bit prone to self-delusion. Now he has money to spend are we revising that judgement? Because it could be argued that the only thing worse than an incompetent owner would be an incompetent owner throwing money around like confetti.
2. If this is the correct interpretation of events (and I agree it makes quite a lot of sense as to why the spending taps have suddenly been turned on) does it not mean that our ownership is considerably less wealthy than it was? So while Rovers may have access to more cash, Wael is obviously not as wealthy as the AQ family overall suggesting perhaps more underlying insecurity. In other words the big stuff might well remain off the table absent investment. Given that it has been suggested that the main barrier to investment is Wael's determination to cling on to his role this problem might have just become even more intractable.
3. Are we happy to drop notions of sustainability because someone is prepared to throw money at the club?
I've maintained a 'what have you done for me lately?' attitude to our ownership for a long time because I see no reason to view the modern day relationship between owners and fans as anything other than purely transactional -Higgs was primarily responsible for that shift at Rovers. So it's good to see that for the first time in a while they are actually meeting that test and, even if we dislike the current results, the change of recruitment strategy under Garner does at least hint at some kind of longer term plan for the club. But I think a certain healthy scepticism is still necessary.
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Post by a more piratey game on Jun 10, 2020 12:26:49 GMT
I've chosen my seat already |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2020 12:44:08 GMT
I've chosen my seat already Good for you. I'm actively working on mastering the Aramaic alphabet. So far I've downloaded this chart. Haven't learned a single thing yet, but have a chart.  |
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Post by Topper Gas on Jun 10, 2020 12:57:57 GMT
Please forgive this if in bad taste, but we are owned by (and therefore exist at the pleasure of) a wealthy family, and I have waited three-and-a-half months before this speculation. It seems to me, that things have changed. BRFC is still owned by Dwane Sports, but Dwane Sports is now Wael Al Qadi, right? Dwane Sports was the Al Qadi family, but I have read that after the elder Al Qadi's sad death, the inheritance was so divided that Wael now owns Dwane Sports outright, holding some personal wealth therein. This, I presume, is why millions are now being spent on training ground development. I am delighted by the news of this. I only wish they will rename it from The Colony. Bad taste or no, it seems the execution of the elder Al Qadi's last will and testament, or the families subsequent choices, have left Dwane Sports in the hands of the football fan, not the banker. I presume this makes new ownership less likely, but investment more so? Sounds about right to me. The wallet has been filled again. The question now is, what next? A. Carry on as before until new funds are exhausted. B. Slash every budget in sight. Garner's madness kind of suggests that this is where we are heading, a little bit of infrastructure could be seen as part of a plan, but also could assist with any exit strategy. C. Ask for help from people who know how to run a L1 club. Something else? Until we get to the start of next season we've no real idea what squad BG intends building, it's just guess work BG's going to slash the budget, he must know he needs to put together a competitive squad or he'll be out of a job before the end of the year. It would seem a strange decision to risk being relegated whilst spending £m's developing a decent training ground so that we can become a competitive L1 side. MS seem to know how to run a succesful L1 club, assuming Wael's prepared to listen to him then do we really need more wasters like Hamer making a killing out of Rovers? |
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,631
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Post by eppinggas on Jun 10, 2020 13:00:37 GMT
This is the conclusion I came to... And I would have to say, it's very welcome news - so well done Wael Al-Qadi. OK I see how it might get some things moving and certainly it is good news on the training ground front. But;
1. Go back a few months and there seemed a general consensus that Wael was basically well intentioned but quite incompetent and a little bit prone to self-delusion. Now he has money to spend are we revising that judgement? Because it could be argued that the only thing worse than an incompetent owner would be an incompetent owner throwing money around like confetti.
2. If this is the correct interpretation of events (and I agree it makes quite a lot of sense as to why the spending taps have suddenly been turned on) does it not mean that our ownership is considerably less wealthy than it was? So while Rovers may have access to more cash, Wael is obviously not as wealthy as the AQ family overall suggesting perhaps more underlying insecurity. In other words the big stuff might well remain off the table absent investment. Given that it has been suggested that the main barrier to investment is Wael's determination to cling on to his role this problem might have just become even more intractable.
3. Are we happy to drop notions of sustainability because someone is prepared to throw money at the club?
I've maintained a 'what have you done for me lately?' attitude to our ownership for a long time because I see no reason to view the modern day relationship between owners and fans as anything other than purely transactional -Higgs was primarily responsible for that shift at Rovers. So it's good to see that for the first time in a while they are actually meeting that test and, even if we dislike the current results, the change of recruitment strategy under Garner does at least hint at some kind of longer term plan for the club. But I think a certain healthy scepticism is still necessary.
1. I guess as long as the money is spent wisely... yes, I am cautiously revising my previous judgement. I don't think it's a case of "throwing around money like confetti". Putting money into the Training Facility is exactly where I would want to see money spent. I am concerned he only has Martyn Starnes with him in the Boardroom. The irony is that we were top-heavy in senior management when very little was going on at all, for 5 years... 2. Positive news on a potential new stadium (yes, I know, again). Without wishing to be insensitive... how much did Wael inherit? 3. If Wael wants to throw money at it until we reach sustainability (and as long as that is the goal) then yup, fine by me. The alternative is to get on an even keel ASAP and that would indicate life lower down the football pyramid. Healthy degree of scepticism? It's in my DNA. |
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jackthegas
David Pritchard
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 313
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Post by jackthegas on Jun 10, 2020 13:09:16 GMT
This is the conclusion I came to... And I would have to say, it's very welcome news - so well done Wael Al-Qadi. OK I see how it might get some things moving and certainly it is good news on the training ground front. But;
1. Go back a few months and there seemed a general consensus that Wael was basically well intentioned but quite incompetent and a little bit prone to self-delusion. Now he has money to spend are we revising that judgement? Because it could be argued that the only thing worse than an incompetent owner would be an incompetent owner throwing money around like confetti.
2. If this is the correct interpretation of events (and I agree it makes quite a lot of sense as to why the spending taps have suddenly been turned on) does it not mean that our ownership is considerably less wealthy than it was? So while Rovers may have access to more cash, Wael is obviously not as wealthy as the AQ family overall suggesting perhaps more underlying insecurity. In other words the big stuff might well remain off the table absent investment. Given that it has been suggested that the main barrier to investment is Wael's determination to cling on to his role this problem might have just become even more intractable.
3. Are we happy to drop notions of sustainability because someone is prepared to throw money at the club?
I've maintained a 'what have you done for me lately?' attitude to our ownership for a long time because I see no reason to view the modern day relationship between owners and fans as anything other than purely transactional -Higgs was primarily responsible for that shift at Rovers. So it's good to see that for the first time in a while they are actually meeting that test and, even if we dislike the current results, the change of recruitment strategy under Garner does at least hint at some kind of longer term plan for the club. But I think a certain healthy scepticism is still necessary.
I definitely remain sceptical, but assuming the hypothesis outlined above is correct, then I think capital expenditure with a view to increasing our long term sustainability is a sensible option. What are the alternatives? Use any increased cash reserves to maintain the status quo and lose millions whilst continuing to try and find a buyer or fritter it away on the first team whilst keeping our fingers crossed that it brings success on the pitch and that something else turns up when the cash runs out. I guess the question is whether the training ground will give us a decent return on investment? Does it mean we significantly reduce costs (at a wildly speculative guess, maintenance and upkeep is probably not that different to rental costs) or will it help us develop our own players and sell them on at a profit? Basically, is it a step towards sustainability or are we just spending money because we've got a bit at the moment? |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2020 13:36:31 GMT
Sounds about right to me. The wallet has been filled again. The question now is, what next? A. Carry on as before until new funds are exhausted. B. Slash every budget in sight. Garner's madness kind of suggests that this is where we are heading, a little bit of infrastructure could be seen as part of a plan, but also could assist with any exit strategy. C. Ask for help from people who know how to run a L1 club. Something else? Until we get to the start of next season we've no real idea what squad BG intends building, it's just guess work BG's going to slash the budget, he must know he needs to put together a competitive squad or he'll be out of a job before the end of the year. It would seem a strange decision to risk being relegated whilst spending £m's developing a decent training ground so that we can become a competitive L1 side. MS seem to know how to run a succesful L1 club, assuming Wael's prepared to listen to him then do we really need more wasters like Hamer making a killing out of Rovers? Garner has already turned 1 winning squad into the football equivalent of The Keystone Cops. I don't mean this is a nasty way, but do you honestly have any confidence in him being able to assemble a squad when he has the worst record of any manager, ever, in our entire history? Starnes arrived long before Garner. Garner is still here, Starnes is still our CEO, Starnes has obviously failed to recognise that Garner is miles out of his depth, or can't convince Wael of it, so it's hard to get too enthusiastic about Starnes leading us to a bright new future. |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2020 13:54:07 GMT
OK I see how it might get some things moving and certainly it is good news on the training ground front. But;
1. Go back a few months and there seemed a general consensus that Wael was basically well intentioned but quite incompetent and a little bit prone to self-delusion. Now he has money to spend are we revising that judgement? Because it could be argued that the only thing worse than an incompetent owner would be an incompetent owner throwing money around like confetti.
2. If this is the correct interpretation of events (and I agree it makes quite a lot of sense as to why the spending taps have suddenly been turned on) does it not mean that our ownership is considerably less wealthy than it was? So while Rovers may have access to more cash, Wael is obviously not as wealthy as the AQ family overall suggesting perhaps more underlying insecurity. In other words the big stuff might well remain off the table absent investment. Given that it has been suggested that the main barrier to investment is Wael's determination to cling on to his role this problem might have just become even more intractable.
3. Are we happy to drop notions of sustainability because someone is prepared to throw money at the club?
I've maintained a 'what have you done for me lately?' attitude to our ownership for a long time because I see no reason to view the modern day relationship between owners and fans as anything other than purely transactional -Higgs was primarily responsible for that shift at Rovers. So it's good to see that for the first time in a while they are actually meeting that test and, even if we dislike the current results, the change of recruitment strategy under Garner does at least hint at some kind of longer term plan for the club. But I think a certain healthy scepticism is still necessary.
I definitely remain sceptical, but assuming the hypothesis outlined above is correct, then I think capital expenditure with a view to increasing our long term sustainability is a sensible option. What are the alternatives? Use any increased cash reserves to maintain the status quo and lose millions whilst continuing to try and find a buyer or fritter it away on the first team whilst keeping our fingers crossed that it brings success on the pitch and that something else turns up when the cash runs out. I guess the question is whether the training ground will give us a decent return on investment? Does it mean we significantly reduce costs (at a wildly speculative guess, maintenance and upkeep is probably not that different to rental costs) or will it help us develop our own players and sell them on at a profit? Basically, is it a step towards sustainability or are we just spending money because we've got a bit at the moment? Don't really understand the highlighted bit. If the owner of the facility was covering maintenance and upkeep he would have nothing left from the rental income, if the renter is paying those costs then his outlay is (in round terms) doubled. Or are you saying that we are paying the same now as we will in future, if we own the site then it has a rental / sale value, you can't just ignore that. Can you clarify whatever point you are trying to make there please? |
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jackthegas
David Pritchard
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 313
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Post by jackthegas on Jun 10, 2020 16:31:48 GMT
I definitely remain sceptical, but assuming the hypothesis outlined above is correct, then I think capital expenditure with a view to increasing our long term sustainability is a sensible option. What are the alternatives? Use any increased cash reserves to maintain the status quo and lose millions whilst continuing to try and find a buyer or fritter it away on the first team whilst keeping our fingers crossed that it brings success on the pitch and that something else turns up when the cash runs out. I guess the question is whether the training ground will give us a decent return on investment? Does it mean we significantly reduce costs (at a wildly speculative guess, maintenance and upkeep is probably not that different to rental costs) or will it help us develop our own players and sell them on at a profit? Basically, is it a step towards sustainability or are we just spending money because we've got a bit at the moment? Don't really understand the highlighted bit. If the owner of the facility was covering maintenance and upkeep he would have nothing left from the rental income, if the renter is paying those costs then his outlay is (in round terms) doubled. Or are you saying that we are paying the same now as we will in future, if we own the site then it has a rental / sale value, you can't just ignore that. Can you clarify whatever point you are trying to make there please? Simply that it will cost us roughly the same to maintain our own facility (maintain the pitches and the gym, clean the facilities etc) as it cost us to rent Cribbs, especially as the set up at Cribbs seemed to be fairly basic. This assumption is completely baseless though. |
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