eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 6, 2018 11:23:32 GMT
Well, the second point, the current incumbents didn't even bother with it...
Well if you know for a 100% fact that the AQs didn't carry out due diligence then they deserve all they get. As owners of a banking institution I would be astounded if that is true as the first thing they would have done in a takeover situation is perform due diligence. It's what banks and corporates do. On the other hand if they did do dd and the answers they were given led them to believe the situation was different then that is a different matter. No-one knows "100%". But the only narrative that makes any sense is that they failed to undertake an appropriate level of due diligence. Buying BRFC without the Stadium as part of the deal makes no sense. When Dwane Sports did the number crunching, they realised that the numbers didn't add up. They've been up sh*t creek without a paddle ever since. I think Higgs spoofed them with the "10 other interested parties" and they rushed dd. Simple as. Nick Higgs is probably a good poker player. I can assure you that Banks do make mistakes. Quite often they make mistakes when things look "too good to be true". It's the classic relationship between "Fear and Greed", and this is how the City functions. Your last sentence implies that Dwane Sports may have been deliberately misled by Nick Higgs. If that is the case then there would be a court case pending. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2018 11:30:42 GMT
Anyway, 329 days until October!
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Cheshiregas
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Post by Cheshiregas on Nov 6, 2018 13:56:31 GMT
Well if you know for a 100% fact that the AQs didn't carry out due diligence then they deserve all they get. As owners of a banking institution I would be astounded if that is true as the first thing they would have done in a takeover situation is perform due diligence. It's what banks and corporates do. On the other hand if they did do dd and the answers they were given led them to believe the situation was different then that is a different matter. No-one knows "100%". But the only narrative that makes any sense is that they failed to undertake an appropriate level of due diligence. Buying BRFC without the Stadium as part of the deal makes no sense. When Dwane Sports did the number crunching, they realised that the numbers didn't add up. They've been up sh*t creek without a paddle ever since. I think Higgs spoofed them with the "10 other interested parties" and they rushed dd. Simple as. Nick Higgs is probably a good poker player. I can assure you that Banks do make mistakes. Quite often they make mistakes when things look "too good to be true". It's the classic relationship between "Fear and Greed", and this is how the City functions. Your last sentence implies that Dwane Sports may have been deliberately misled by Nick Higgs. If that is the case then there would be a court case pending. epping, having worked in corporate banking for nearly 40 years and now in consulting reviewing customer complaints of significant nature I can assure you that I know banks make mistakes and I didn't say that they don't. I stated that if they didn't do dd then they only have themselves to blame, if they did do dd and it wasn't as they had been led to believe it doesn't mean Higgs deliberately misled them, although glad to see you vigorously defending him...... I have seen numerous deals where facts are implied, sellers economical with the truth or subject matter not as detailed as it should be. If they used a 'data room' approach something may have been missed, again that would be the AQs own fault. Such matters do not always lead to litigation I can assure you. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2018 15:12:05 GMT
Well if you know for a 100% fact that the AQs didn't carry out due diligence then they deserve all they get. As owners of a banking institution I would be astounded if that is true as the first thing they would have done in a takeover situation is perform due diligence. It's what banks and corporates do. On the other hand if they did do dd and the answers they were given led them to believe the situation was different then that is a different matter. If you listen to Steve Hamer they were surprised that an 8 million training facility cost 8 million instead of 2. I've learned in life that you can give people far too much credit for knowing what they are doing based on reputation and I think this might be such a case especially when their reputation has been built on an enterprise that their father started rather than one that Wael and Hani built from the ground up themselves. Didn't Higgs inherit Cowlin? |
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 6, 2018 15:36:33 GMT
No-one knows "100%". But the only narrative that makes any sense is that they failed to undertake an appropriate level of due diligence. Buying BRFC without the Stadium as part of the deal makes no sense. When Dwane Sports did the number crunching, they realised that the numbers didn't add up. They've been up sh*t creek without a paddle ever since. I think Higgs spoofed them with the "10 other interested parties" and they rushed dd. Simple as. Nick Higgs is probably a good poker player. I can assure you that Banks do make mistakes. Quite often they make mistakes when things look "too good to be true". It's the classic relationship between "Fear and Greed", and this is how the City functions. Your last sentence implies that Dwane Sports may have been deliberately misled by Nick Higgs. If that is the case then there would be a court case pending. epping, having worked in corporate banking for nearly 40 years and now in consulting reviewing customer complaints of significant nature I can assure you that I know banks make mistakes and I didn't say that they don't. I stated that if they didn't do dd then they only have themselves to blame, if they did do dd and it wasn't as they had been led to believe it doesn't mean Higgs deliberately misled them, although glad to see you vigorously defending him...... I have seen numerous deals where facts are implied, sellers economical with the truth or subject matter not as detailed as it should be. If they used a 'data room' approach something may have been missed, again that would be the AQs own fault. Such matters do not always lead to litigation I can assure you. I can assure you I am not vigorously defending Nick Higgs, and never have. He must have been a very, very relieved man when he sold BRFC to Dwane Sports. He may well have been economical with the truth. That doesn't lead to litigation. Caveat emptor and all that. It's not the sellers responsibility to deliver the detail, it's the buyers responsibility to demand it so that they can carry out due diligence. The only conclusion that can be drawn is that appropriate due diligence was not carried out by Dwane Sports. BTW - I don't think you can imply a fact. :-) |
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Post by Topper Gas on Nov 6, 2018 21:25:20 GMT
Well if you know for a 100% fact that the AQs didn't carry out due diligence then they deserve all they get. As owners of a banking institution I would be astounded if that is true as the first thing they would have done in a takeover situation is perform due diligence. It's what banks and corporates do. On the other hand if they did do dd and the answers they were given led them to believe the situation was different then that is a different matter. No-one knows "100%". But the only narrative that makes any sense is that they failed to undertake an appropriate level of due diligence. Buying BRFC without the Stadium as part of the deal makes no sense. When Dwane Sports did the number crunching, they realised that the numbers didn't add up. They've been up sh*t creek without a paddle ever since. I think Higgs spoofed them with the "10 other interested parties" and they rushed dd. Simple as. Nick Higgs is probably a good poker player. I can assure you that Banks do make mistakes. Quite often they make mistakes when things look "too good to be true". It's the classic relationship between "Fear and Greed", and this is how the City functions. Your last sentence implies that Dwane Sports may have been deliberately misled by Nick Higgs. If that is the case then there would be a court case pending. Without any signed contracts being in place with the UWE I can't see how the ALQ could do DD on that part of the deal and, even if they did, I doubt they would want to accept the deal NH had apparently agreed with the UWE which gave them a big cut of the stadium income. Perhaps in an ideal world they should have got around a table with the UWE and agreeing a deal in principle before buying the club, but it seems NH was spinning the yarn, or perhaps telling the truth, that the club was days away from admin meaning a quick takeover was required. |
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TaiwanGas
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Post by TaiwanGas on Nov 7, 2018 4:19:20 GMT
As we slowly trickle towards the possibility that the ALQ's have perhaps made a duff purchase, DC's comments on the Club not pulling together and in the same direction gathers momentum & meaning, we have always been a selling club, Twerton again anybody? WYHTB?...
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crater
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Post by crater on Nov 7, 2018 6:35:20 GMT
If you listen to Steve Hamer they were surprised that an 8 million training facility cost 8 million instead of 2. I've learned in life that you can give people far too much credit for knowing what they are doing based on reputation and I think this might be such a case especially when their reputation has been built on an enterprise that their father started rather than one that Wael and Hani built from the ground up themselves. Didn't Higgs inherit Cowlin? Cowlin was originally owned by his father in law I believe |
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 7, 2018 8:29:03 GMT
As we slowly trickle towards the possibility that the ALQ's have perhaps made a duff purchase, DC's comments on the Club not pulling together and in the same direction gathers momentum & meaning, we have always been a selling club, Twerton again anybody? WYHTB?... I would say that just over a year ago some cynical old bas*ards galloped towards the probability that Dwane Sports almost certainly made a duff purchase. :-) |
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 7, 2018 8:56:16 GMT
No-one knows "100%". But the only narrative that makes any sense is that they failed to undertake an appropriate level of due diligence. Buying BRFC without the Stadium as part of the deal makes no sense. When Dwane Sports did the number crunching, they realised that the numbers didn't add up. They've been up sh*t creek without a paddle ever since. I think Higgs spoofed them with the "10 other interested parties" and they rushed dd. Simple as. Nick Higgs is probably a good poker player. I can assure you that Banks do make mistakes. Quite often they make mistakes when things look "too good to be true". It's the classic relationship between "Fear and Greed", and this is how the City functions. Your last sentence implies that Dwane Sports may have been deliberately misled by Nick Higgs. If that is the case then there would be a court case pending. Without any signed contracts being in place with the UWE I can't see how the ALQ could do DD on that part of the deal and, even if they did, I doubt they would want to accept the deal NH had apparently agreed with the UWE which gave them a big cut of the stadium income. Perhaps in an ideal world they should have got around a table with the UWE and agreeing a deal in principle before buying the club, but it seems NH was spinning the yarn, or perhaps telling the truth, that the club was days away from admin meaning a quick takeover was required. Fear and greed my friend. If Dwane Sports did not have the appropriate level of detail on the UWE part of the deal, then they should not have bought BRFC. However they were worried some-one else would beat them to the deal (fear). They thought that there was a chance to make some decent money with UWE (greed). So they took a punt. (BTW - If they took absolutely everything that Nick Higgs said at face-value, then more fool them). Here is how they (sounds like Wael) justified taking a punt to 'the family'. They are bankers. Even if the UWE deal doesn't come off, the asset value of the Memorial Stadium is more than the price paid for BRFC. So it's a no-brainer, isn't it? 1. Best case scenario: UWE 'works' and a shiny new Stadium is delivered. This makes money. Wael is a hero. Everyone is happy. Hooray! :-) 2. Worst case scenario: Dwane Sports sell the Mem for it's true value and get out flat on the deal. BRFC are homeless. Gasheads are unhappy. Wael leaves with his tail between his legs and his reputation in tatters. Boo :-( 3. Hopeful scenario: Sell BRFC (hopefully at a profit) to someone who just might deliver a new stadium. Wael could even stay on the Board. Gasheads and Wael are happy. Hooray! :-) 4. Stagnation scenario: Dwane Sports don't find a buyer. They don't take option 2. But they stop putting any money into BRFC as they don't want debt to exceed asset value. The club is strangled. Dwane Sports are left with a large nonperforming asset. We drop down the leagues in an increasingly decrepit stadium. Gasheads and Wael are not happy. Boo :-( |
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Cheshiregas
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Post by Cheshiregas on Nov 7, 2018 9:14:55 GMT
epping, having worked in corporate banking for nearly 40 years and now in consulting reviewing customer complaints of significant nature I can assure you that I know banks make mistakes and I didn't say that they don't. I stated that if they didn't do dd then they only have themselves to blame, if they did do dd and it wasn't as they had been led to believe it doesn't mean Higgs deliberately misled them, although glad to see you vigorously defending him...... I have seen numerous deals where facts are implied, sellers economical with the truth or subject matter not as detailed as it should be. If they used a 'data room' approach something may have been missed, again that would be the AQs own fault. Such matters do not always lead to litigation I can assure you. I can assure you I am not vigorously defending Nick Higgs, and never have. He must have been a very, very relieved man when he sold BRFC to Dwane Sports. He may well have been economical with the truth. That doesn't lead to litigation. Caveat emptor and all that. It's not the sellers responsibility to deliver the detail, it's the buyers responsibility to demand it so that they can carry out due diligence. The only conclusion that can be drawn is that appropriate due diligence was not carried out by Dwane Sports. BTW - I don't think you can imply a fact. :-) Perhaps I should have put "facts" i.e. that some things are implied as "facts" but may later turn out not to be.....  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2018 10:10:17 GMT
I can assure you I am not vigorously defending Nick Higgs, and never have. He must have been a very, very relieved man when he sold BRFC to Dwane Sports. He may well have been economical with the truth. That doesn't lead to litigation. Caveat emptor and all that. It's not the sellers responsibility to deliver the detail, it's the buyers responsibility to demand it so that they can carry out due diligence. The only conclusion that can be drawn is that appropriate due diligence was not carried out by Dwane Sports. BTW - I don't think you can imply a fact. :-) Perhaps I should have put "facts" i.e. that some things are implied as "facts" but may later turn out not to be..... <iframe width="36.0799999999999" height="5.88" id="MoatPxIOPT0_94511658" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 15px; top: -5px; width: 36.08px; height: 5.88px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> <iframe width="36.0799999999999" height="5.88" id="MoatPxIOPT0_37807946" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 1732px; top: -5px; width: 36.08px; height: 5.88px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> <iframe width="36.0799999999999" height="5.88" id="MoatPxIOPT0_97201676" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 232px; width: 36.08px; height: 5.88px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> <iframe width="36.0799999999999" height="5.88" id="MoatPxIOPT0_13744592" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 1732px; top: 232px; width: 36.08px; height: 5.88px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> Where are we now, page 16 and not one scrap of evidence, the other forum has something like 120 pages, same thing there, a lot of talk, a couple of people all puffed up with their own self importance pretending that they know things but couldn't possibly say everything they know, it's all a bit sad. We've been here before though. 2014, poster called Intheknow said with certainty that Sainsbury's would not pull out. |
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 7, 2018 11:27:11 GMT
Yeah - but InTheKNow was Nick Higgs.
Failing a take-over - see Option 4 above. Or 2.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2018 11:33:04 GMT
As we slowly trickle towards the possibility that the ALQ's have perhaps made a duff purchase, DC's comments on the Club not pulling together and in the same direction gathers momentum & meaning, we have always been a selling club, Twerton again anybody? WYHTB?... I would say that just over a year ago some cynical old bas*ards galloped towards the probability that Dwane Sports almost certainly made a duff purchase. :-) It's odd because with clever investment we could be quite a decent little purchase. Let's face it though, the only clever investment in the last 30 years by multiple boards and board members was the purchase of the mem. The rest been like watching a drunk bloke on a fruity on payday. Moronic doesn't even come close. |
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 7, 2018 11:33:37 GMT
I can assure you I am not vigorously defending Nick Higgs, and never have. He must have been a very, very relieved man when he sold BRFC to Dwane Sports. He may well have been economical with the truth. That doesn't lead to litigation. Caveat emptor and all that. It's not the sellers responsibility to deliver the detail, it's the buyers responsibility to demand it so that they can carry out due diligence. The only conclusion that can be drawn is that appropriate due diligence was not carried out by Dwane Sports. BTW - I don't think you can imply a fact. :-) Perhaps I should have put "facts" i.e. that some things are implied as "facts" but may later turn out not to be..... If you have taken things at face value and haven't check them out properly, then you have failed to undertake due diligence. Prepare to be astounded my friend! I was. A year ago. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2018 12:27:50 GMT
Yeah - but InTheKNow was Nick Higgs. Failing a take-over - see Option 4 above. Or 2. Are you seriously suggesting that Higgs was posting that on here whilst he knew that very soon he would be up to his neck in a legal battle with Sainsbury's? Seriously? |
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Cheshiregas
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Post by Cheshiregas on Nov 7, 2018 13:07:06 GMT
Perhaps I should have put "facts" i.e. that some things are implied as "facts" but may later turn out not to be..... If you have taken things at face value and haven't check them out properly, then you have failed to undertake due diligence. Prepare to be astounded my friend! I was. A year ago. I am quite prepared to be astounded but could you kindly tell me how long I may have to wait.... |
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Cheshiregas
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Post by Cheshiregas on Nov 7, 2018 13:08:21 GMT
Perhaps I should have put "facts" i.e. that some things are implied as "facts" but may later turn out not to be..... <iframe width="36.0799999999999" height="5.88" id="MoatPxIOPT0_94511658" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 15px; top: -5px; width: 36.08px; height: 5.88px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> <iframe width="36.0799999999999" height="5.88" id="MoatPxIOPT0_37807946" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 1732px; top: -5px; width: 36.08px; height: 5.88px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> <iframe width="36.0799999999999" height="5.88" id="MoatPxIOPT0_97201676" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 232px; width: 36.08px; height: 5.88px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> <iframe width="36.0799999999999" height="5.88" id="MoatPxIOPT0_13744592" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 1732px; top: 232px; width: 36.08px; height: 5.88px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> Where are we now, page 16 and not one scrap of evidence, the other forum has something like 120 pages, same thing there, a lot of talk, a couple of people all puffed up with their own self importance pretending that they know things but couldn't possibly say everything they know, it's all a bit sad. We've been here before though. 2014, poster called Intheknow said with certainty that Sainsbury's would not pull out. Well as Manuel would say "I know nothing"...... |
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 7, 2018 14:27:21 GMT
Yeah - but InTheKNow was Nick Higgs. Failing a take-over - see Option 4 above. Or 2. Are you seriously suggesting that Higgs was posting that on here whilst he knew that very soon he would be up to his neck in a legal battle with Sainsbury's? Seriously? No, I was not being serious. Seriously. |
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 7, 2018 14:33:05 GMT
If you have taken things at face value and haven't check them out properly, then you have failed to undertake due diligence. Prepare to be astounded my friend! I was. A year ago. I am quite prepared to be astounded but could you kindly tell me how long I may have to wait.... You can be astounded now if you like. As for any potential takeover (successful or not, imaginary or not)... that's a different story that one can only hope will write it's final chapter "soon". UTG. |
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