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Post by Feeling The Blues on Jul 2, 2014 14:18:57 GMT
hmmm people may be looking to wrong places for information, in desperation Fans are asking Sainsbury's direct, Leslie's asking call me Dave, in the past fans ringing Secretary of States (plural), English Heritage, Ministerial Departments, and no doubt neg'ing them all off. And all wouldn't be necessary if there was just some plain speaking from our owners giving unambiguous information, without breaching confidentiality clauses or commercial sensitivities. A plc Board would all have been sacked by now for failing duties to share holders, the Board at my last firm made loads of announcements and kept people informed, despite being involved in mega contracts worth tens of billions, and managed to do so without breaching confidences or commercial requirements or annoying anyone by disclosing too much or too little. Shmae there are not stock market type rules for non listed football clubs.......... It really is a shambles They have informed us when there has been something to inform. If they are not allowed to go into details then they can't. They said there were 5 issues to be dealt with, however, they can't talk about those issues. Is that not an update??? Not sure what you want them to say. Daniel is it escaping you that things HAVE changed. If everything was as Higgs last told us then thou can be sure that the local MP's wouldn't be writing to Sainsburys and the Prime Minister wouldn't be being asked questions about it. But we still hear NOTHING from our chairman. He has to respond to these developments but doesn't, and he wonders why he has his loyal customers giving him grief. And plotting against him. It is also disappointing that our local media are seemingly not trying to contact him for a response to the latest developments.
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Post by daniel300380 on Jul 2, 2014 14:24:56 GMT
They have informed us when there has been something to inform. If they are not allowed to go into details then they can't. They said there were 5 issues to be dealt with, however, they can't talk about those issues. Is that not an update??? Not sure what you want them to say. Daniel is it escaping you that things HAVE changed. If everything was as Higgs last told us then thou can be sure that the local MP's wouldn't be writing to Sainsburys and the Prime Minister wouldn't be being asked questions about it. But we still hear NOTHING from our chairman. He has to respond to these developments but doesn't, and he wonders why he has his loyal customers giving him grief. And plotting against him. It is also disappointing that our local media are seemingly not trying to contact him for a response to the latest developments. [ His last statement was not long ago. Higgs wouldn't be allowed to tell the MP's of any changes so they wouldn't know. MPs trying to hurry things along and gain voters. You want Higgs to come out and make a statement saying nothing has changed, just because of a open letter???
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Jul 2, 2014 14:31:38 GMT
Daniel is it escaping you that things HAVE changed. If everything was as Higgs last told us then thou can be sure that the local MP's wouldn't be writing to Sainsburys and the Prime Minister wouldn't be being asked questions about it. But we still hear NOTHING from our chairman. He has to respond to these developments but doesn't, and he wonders why he has his loyal customers giving him grief. And plotting against him. It is also disappointing that our local media are seemingly not trying to contact him for a response to the latest developments. [ His last statement was not long ago. Higgs wouldn't be allowed to tell the MP's of any changes so they wouldn't know. MPs trying to hurry things along and gain voters. You want Higgs to come out and make a statement saying nothing has changed, just because of a open letter??? Yes Daniel I do, or if it has changed to tell us that too. We need him to give his reaction to the open letter and to the Prime Minister being dragged in to it and if nothing has changed why in his opinion is this all happening.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 14:37:37 GMT
Daniel is it escaping you that things HAVE changed. If everything was as Higgs last told us then thou can be sure that the local MP's wouldn't be writing to Sainsburys and the Prime Minister wouldn't be being asked questions about it. But we still hear NOTHING from our chairman. He has to respond to these developments but doesn't, and he wonders why he has his loyal customers giving him grief. And plotting against him. It is also disappointing that our local media are seemingly not trying to contact him for a response to the latest developments. [ His last statement was not long ago. Higgs wouldn't be allowed to tell the MP's of any changes so they wouldn't know. MPs trying to hurry things along and gain voters. You want Higgs to come out and make a statement saying nothing has changed, just because of a open letter??? How about Higgs backs up Watola's words and tells The PM and the delightful Ms Leslie that there's nothing to worry about, just 5 docs that will be signed off as soon as some people return from their holidays?
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Post by daniel300380 on Jul 2, 2014 14:38:45 GMT
[ His last statement was not long ago. Higgs wouldn't be allowed to tell the MP's of any changes so they wouldn't know. MPs trying to hurry things along and gain voters. You want Higgs to come out and make a statement saying nothing has changed, just because of a open letter??? Yes Daniel I do, or if it has changed to tell us that too. We need him to give his reaction to the open letter and to the Prime Minister being dragged in to it and if nothing has changed why in his opinion is this all happening. It's happening because like us, the mp's want to know what is happening, however, if he is not allowed to talk about it, he can't. Hopefully he will make a statement saying nothing has changed to keep you happy then.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
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Post by faggotygas on Jul 2, 2014 14:39:19 GMT
The board seriously damaged the trust of the fans in the Cheltenham fiasco. You can therefore understand people being cynical & suspicious this time round.
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Post by PessimistGas on Jul 2, 2014 14:50:22 GMT
The board seriously damaged the trust of the fans in the Cheltenham fiasco. You can therefore understand people being cynical & suspicious this time round. History is repeating.
The truth will come out sooner rather than later despite NH's cack handed efforts to kick the whole thing into the long grass until Christmas to buy him some time.
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Peter Parker
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Richard Walker
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Post by Peter Parker on Jul 2, 2014 14:52:22 GMT
All the club have to say is that everything is water tight and nothing will stop us going ahead with the stadium
in a roundabout sort of way has he not said that by his actions ?? Well there is always a sodding issue in the way or something to sort out.
I get that there are probably things to sort with builders etc, but surely the main contractual issue of the sale of the land to Sainsbury's should be pretty much guaranteed or happened by now should it not?
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Peter Parker
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Post by Peter Parker on Jul 2, 2014 14:56:49 GMT
Yes Daniel I do, or if it has changed to tell us that too. We need him to give his reaction to the open letter and to the Prime Minister being dragged in to it and if nothing has changed why in his opinion is this all happening. It's happening because like us, the mp's want to know what is happening, however, if he is not allowed to talk about it, he can't. Hopefully he will make a statement saying nothing has changed to keep you happy then. That's called leadership.
Nick Higgs coming out and saying confidently, nothing has changed and we are just in the process of signing of, nothing to worry about, might not be saying anything different to a few weeks, but it would be a clear statement when the doubts are being cast again
That's called leadership
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 14:57:40 GMT
in a roundabout sort of way has he not said that by his actions ?? Well there is always a sodding issue in the way or something to sort out.
I get that there are probably things to sort with builders etc, but surely the main contractual issue of the sale of the land to Sainsbury's should be pretty much guaranteed or happened by now should it not?
Maybe all the builders/equipment destined for the UWE got diverted to Cardiff because Mr Tann told Buckingham to get the Cardiff Stadium update done ASAP and not the scheduled finished date and maybe Mr Tann chucked some money at Buckingham to make sure this happened.... Stranger things have happened
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 2, 2014 14:59:34 GMT
Yes Daniel I do, or if it has changed to tell us that too. We need him to give his reaction to the open letter and to the Prime Minister being dragged in to it and if nothing has changed why in his opinion is this all happening. It's happening because like us, the mp's want to know what is happening, however, if he is not allowed to talk about it, he can't. Hopefully he will make a statement saying nothing has changed to keep you happy then. Do you honsetly believe that rather than asking NH on the Qt if everything is going smoothly 4 MP's would write an open letter and then one of them asks DC at PMQT, I suggest youwake up and smell the coffee, it seems to me the UWE plans could well now be dead in the water if Sainbury's don't respond PDQ.
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Peter Parker
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Post by Peter Parker on Jul 2, 2014 15:00:34 GMT
Well there is always a sodding issue in the way or something to sort out.
I get that there are probably things to sort with builders etc, but surely the main contractual issue of the sale of the land to Sainsbury's should be pretty much guaranteed or happened by now should it not?
Maybe all the builders/equipment destined for the UWE got diverted to Cardiff because Mr Tann told Buckingham to get the Cardiff Stadium update done ASAP and not the scheduled finished date and maybe Mr Tann chucked some money at Buckingham to make sure this happened.... Stranger things have happened I don't care if they have gone to fecking Cardiff first.
I think we just want to know we have been wired £30million or whatever it is and its in the bank account
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rovers2
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Post by rovers2 on Jul 2, 2014 15:01:57 GMT
Yes Daniel I do, or if it has changed to tell us that too. We need him to give his reaction to the open letter and to the Prime Minister being dragged in to it and if nothing has changed why in his opinion is this all happening. It's happening because like us, the mp's want to know what is happening, however, if he is not allowed to talk about it, he can't. Hopefully he will make a statement saying nothing has changed to keep you happy then. He's not allowed to talk about it, are we building Area 51?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 15:03:16 GMT
Maybe all the builders/equipment destined for the UWE got diverted to Cardiff because Mr Tann told Buckingham to get the Cardiff Stadium update done ASAP and not the scheduled finished date and maybe Mr Tann chucked some money at Buckingham to make sure this happened.... Stranger things have happened I don't care if they have gone to fecking Cardiff first.
I think we just want to know we have been wired £30million or whatever it is and its in the bank account
and maybe just maybe BRFC got some of that money as Compo in the form of discount on Stadium build costs to delay it 6 months.... Stranger things have happened
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Post by PessimistGas on Jul 2, 2014 15:03:53 GMT
It's happening because like us, the mp's want to know what is happening, however, if he is not allowed to talk about it, he can't. Hopefully he will make a statement saying nothing has changed to keep you happy then. Do you honsetly believe that rather than asking NH on the Qt if everything is going smoothly 4 MP's would write an open letter and then one of them asks DC at PMQT, I suggest youwake up and smell the coffee, it seems to me the UWE plans could well now be dead in the water if Sainbury's don't respond PDQ. An open letter and PMQ's is not an action of first resort. I find it hard to believe that she didn't approach the club first for assurances and been stonewalled.
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rovers2
Bruce Bannister
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Post by rovers2 on Jul 2, 2014 15:05:04 GMT
I don't care if they have gone to fecking Cardiff first.
I think we just want to know we have been wired £30million or whatever it is and its in the bank account
and maybe just maybe BRFC got some of that money as Compo in the form of discount on Stadium build costs to delay it 6 months.... Stranger things have happened A sort of Brand Match from Sainsburys.... £8m off your next stadium build?
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jul 2, 2014 15:08:28 GMT
Yes Daniel I do, or if it has changed to tell us that too. We need him to give his reaction to the open letter and to the Prime Minister being dragged in to it and if nothing has changed why in his opinion is this all happening. It's happening because like us, the mp's want to know what is happening, however, if he is not allowed to talk about it, he can't. Hopefully he will make a statement saying nothing has changed to keep you happy then. I'm afraid that's just not the way MPs work - they don't sit around waiting to find out about key issues and they don't waste their time applying pressure to something they know is a dead cert. Contrary to a lot of popular opinion MPs time is actually pretty limited and they certainly don't table questions to the Prime Minister unless they are trying to influence a process they have concerns about. Forgetting all Politicking for a moment, the primary job of an MP is to represent their constituents which is what is happening here. It is clear that local MPs are pretty worried that Sainsbury's could pull out and are trying to apply pressure so that no one says 'what did you do?' if things go wrong. There is clearly a concern and if it's as far as questions to the Prime Minister and Open Letters then it is in the public domain and a response is needed. Mancgas is right - far, far bigger more commerically and nationally sensitives project than this would have provided consistent updates and yes 'move along - nothing to see here' is a response that can be asked for in this kind of situation.
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Post by PessimistGas on Jul 2, 2014 15:15:15 GMT
It's happening because like us, the mp's want to know what is happening, however, if he is not allowed to talk about it, he can't. Hopefully he will make a statement saying nothing has changed to keep you happy then. I'm afraid that's just not the way MPs work - they don't sit around waiting to find out about key issues and they don't waste their time applying pressure to something they know is a dead cert. Contrary to a lot of popular opinion MPs time is actually pretty limited and they certainly don't table questions to the Prime Minister unless they are trying to influence a process they have concerns about. Forgetting all Politicking for a moment, the primary job of an MP is to represent their constituents which is what is happening here. It is clear that local MPs are pretty worried that Sainsbury's could pull out and are trying to apply pressure so that no one says 'what did you do?' if things go wrong. There is clearly a concern and if it's as far as questions to the Prime Minister and Open Letters then it is in the public domain and a response is needed. Mancgas is right - far, far bigger more commerically and nationally sensitives project than this would have provided consistent updates and yes 'move along - nothing to see here' is a response that can be asked for in this kind of situation. It's funny how the club and Sainsbury's have been practically falling over themselves to give information and updates at every stage of the process until a few weeks ago when it all got very vague and shifty. No mention of any confidentiality agreements then.
All Nick Higgs needs to do is come out and confirm that there is no suggestion of Sainsbury's pulling the plug.
I'm sure the people happy for the club to hide behind "confidentiality" were happy to do the same during the Opal fiasco where fans were misled, lied to and taken for chumps at every turn. With that in mind, what have the club done to deserve the benefit of any doubt?
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jul 2, 2014 15:20:55 GMT
I'm afraid that's just not the way MPs work - they don't sit around waiting to find out about key issues and they don't waste their time applying pressure to something they know is a dead cert. Contrary to a lot of popular opinion MPs time is actually pretty limited and they certainly don't table questions to the Prime Minister unless they are trying to influence a process they have concerns about. Forgetting all Politicking for a moment, the primary job of an MP is to represent their constituents which is what is happening here. It is clear that local MPs are pretty worried that Sainsbury's could pull out and are trying to apply pressure so that no one says 'what did you do?' if things go wrong. There is clearly a concern and if it's as far as questions to the Prime Minister and Open Letters then it is in the public domain and a response is needed. Mancgas is right - far, far bigger more commerically and nationally sensitives project than this would have provided consistent updates and yes 'move along - nothing to see here' is a response that can be asked for in this kind of situation. It's funny how the club and Sainsbury's have been practically falling over themselves to give information and updates at every stage of the process until a few weeks ago when it all got very vague and shifty. No mention of any confidentiality agreements then.
All Nick Higgs needs to do is come out and confirm that there is no suggestion of Sainsbury's pulling the plug.
I'm sure the people happy for the club to hide behind "confidentiality" were happy to do the same during the Opal fiasco where fans were misled, lied to and taken for chumps at every turn. With that in mind, what have the club done to deserve the benefit of any doubt?
Yes, I think this is the essence of the problem-feels too much like history repeating itself. The Cheltenham incident was probably the most damaging thing to happen -that's what led a lot of people to feel as though fans were being put at the bottom of the priority ladder.
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RG2 Gas
Andy Spring
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Post by RG2 Gas on Jul 2, 2014 15:21:08 GMT
My 2p worth:
Obviously I appreciate that during tense contractual discussions you have to play things close to your chest and 'manage' external messages.
To a degree I actually sympathise with the BoD over the whole Whaddon Road episode - I understand that they were in discussions with alternative funding providers and so withholding news that Opal had pulled out strengthens the negotiating hand you have. As soon as the Opal news was public all other parties would be clear the club were desperate and so the negotiations were destined to fail.
This situation is different though - as far as I'm aware there are no other third parties - it's Sainsbury's or bust. I'm guessing the club want to minimise 'bad news' after the catastrophe of relegation and also keep 'onside' with Sainsbury's. However, as the delays mount up the messages coming out of the club don't stack up.
Do you REALLY put on hold all contractual work whilst a JR or English Heritage process is underway, or do you get the agreements as far as you possibly can in parallel and then only tie up the loose ends once a positive outcome has been achieved? Can you REALLY get away with blaming Carstairs for an unspecified delay to work starting until late in the year when the EH stuff was all done and dusted weeks ago, when you'd previously said you hope to be on site within a month or so of the end of the JR?
Given relegation the hope of the UWE is the ONLY thing keeping a large number of fans 'onside' at the moment - indeed many still say that they can forgive relegation to non-league if the UWE is built as it gives us the best chance of climbing the leagues. Should the UWE project fail and we're stuck in non-league for an extended stay then the fall-out will be catastrophic, particularly as our debts build the future will look even more bleak.
So they have to maintain the right balance of honesty vs maintaining motivation (plus of course contractual confidentiality).
But this 'open letter' from the MPs changes everything. Even the most blue-tinted of supporters can't honestly believe this has been done in isolation without knowledge from the club? Of course the club knew about this, and the fact that they're publically asking Sainsbury's to commit at the very highest national level suggests there is clearly obvious doubt right now that this will happen.
So given the game changing letter from the MPs and yet another question at PMQs surely Higgs HAS to make a statement - fans can see that something is amiss and to publically declare there isn't a problem when there clearly IS shows that the BoD just don't get it still in respect of comms with the fans, and it will just drive an even bigger wedge and feeling of distrust with the fan base at a time the club is desperate for everyone to pull together.
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