Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 16:51:40 GMT
All I was saying was...we will never know........ if Balanta had not been injured, the switch may not have happened.As Clarke is not a natural wide man it was a good idea to fill up the middle of the park. Rubbing my hands for next few games: putting Torquay to the sword twice 6pts a six pointer v Macclesfield but just 3 actual points and good chance for away success at Nunners! 12 point out of 12 is really possible this Christmas (Please Santa) I'd go one step further and say that if Angelo Balanta had not been injured, then the substitution and subsequent change of formation would not have happened . . . well, not after only 29 minutes it wouldn't have. After all the game lasts for 90 minutes, so why would you voluntarily substitute one of your starting line-up after only one-third of the game has been played? With the best will in the world I think that the Manager got lucky there, because at the time we were being played off of the park. Still, all's well that ends well eh? He could of put Harrison on the wing and kept the same shape though,but I agree without the injury the change would have been at half time
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Dec 22, 2014 17:20:36 GMT
All I was saying was...we will never know........ if Balanta had not been injured, the switch may not have happened.As Clarke is not a natural wide man it was a good idea to fill up the middle of the park. Rubbing my hands for next few games: putting Torquay to the sword twice 6pts a six pointer v Macclesfield but just 3 actual points and good chance for away success at Nunners! 12 point out of 12 is really possible this Christmas (Please Santa) I'd go one step further and say that if Angelo Balanta had not been injured, then the substitution and subsequent change of formation would not have happened . . . well, not after only 29 minutes it wouldn't have. After all the game lasts for 90 minutes, so why would you voluntarily substitute one of your starting line-up after only one-third of the game has been played? With the best will in the world I think that the Manager got lucky there, because at the time we were being played off of the park. Still, all's well that ends well eh? I think that's a bit harsh because it wasn't just about the change in personnel and the shape of the side - it was a whole change of tempo and approach as well.
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brizzle
Lindsay Parsons
No Buy . . . No Sell!
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Post by brizzle on Dec 22, 2014 17:28:57 GMT
I'd go one step further and say that if Angelo Balanta had not been injured, then the substitution and subsequent change of formation would not have happened . . . well, not after only 29 minutes it wouldn't have. After all the game lasts for 90 minutes, so why would you voluntarily substitute one of your starting line-up after only one-third of the game has been played? With the best will in the world I think that the Manager got lucky there, because at the time we were being played off of the park. Still, all's well that ends well eh? I think that's a bit harsh because it wasn't just about the change in personnel and the shape of the side - it was a whole change of tempo and approach as well. But doesn't one evolve directly from the other? Or alternatively, would we have developed the improved tempo and approach, with the original Starting XI?
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Dec 22, 2014 17:53:26 GMT
I think that's a bit harsh because it wasn't just about the change in personnel and the shape of the side - it was a whole change of tempo and approach as well. But doesn't one evolve directly from the other? Or alternatively, would we have developed the improved tempo and approach, with the original Starting XI? I'm inclined to give him the credit - there were other options available. He could have done a straight swap for Harrison and there's no reason why the side had to change tempo and shape just because Clarke replaced Balanta. He may have used it as an opportunity to change things up as opposed to waiting a bit longer but I feel there was enough of a dramatic shift in the attitude and the tactics to suggest it wasn't just a function of bringing on Ollie Clarke. I don't see how bringing on Ollie Clarke automatically means Rovers midfield all play 5-10 yards further up the pitch or that Sinclair is pushed into such a free role. They were additional tactical decisions for me.
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brizzle
Lindsay Parsons
No Buy . . . No Sell!
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Post by brizzle on Dec 22, 2014 17:57:00 GMT
But doesn't one evolve directly from the other? Or alternatively, would we have developed the improved tempo and approach, with the original Starting XI? I'm inclined to give him the credit - there were other options available. He could have done a straight swap for Harrison and there's no reason why the side had to change tempo and shape just because Clarke replaced Balanta. He may have used it as an opportunity to change things up as opposed to waiting a bit longer but I feel there was enough of a dramatic shift in the attitude and the tactics to suggest it wasn't just a function of bringing on Ollie Clarke. I don't see how bringing on Ollie Clarke automatically means Rovers midfield all play 5-10 yards further up the pitch or that Sinclair is pushed into such a free role. They were additional tactical decisions for me.In that case, then so be it.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Dec 22, 2014 18:16:54 GMT
I'm inclined to give him the credit - there were other options available. He could have done a straight swap for Harrison and there's no reason why the side had to change tempo and shape just because Clarke replaced Balanta. He may have used it as an opportunity to change things up as opposed to waiting a bit longer but I feel there was enough of a dramatic shift in the attitude and the tactics to suggest it wasn't just a function of bringing on Ollie Clarke. I don't see how bringing on Ollie Clarke automatically means Rovers midfield all play 5-10 yards further up the pitch or that Sinclair is pushed into such a free role. They were additional tactical decisions for me.In that case, then so be it. I take your point - it was reactive, but I've generally been impressed by his ability to read games. I've seen us play 5-6 games this season either on the telly or in person and I think in all of those (even the one's in which we were poor) he made a noticeable tactical switch which improved things for us. So I like that side of him - I'm not quite as sold on his ability to recruit I think - we seem to be churning through an awful lot of strikers to very little effect. If we don't make a good tilt at promotion this season - that will be why. It is a bit odd to me that a manager who has us 3rd doesn't have a little more support (and I include myself in that) - I can't put my finger on it exactly but I'm not sure he comes across as immediately likeable. That's probably very unfair but in the media age I think that matters - we don't seem to have particularly taken to him for whatever reason, even those of us who think he's basically doing a good job. Maybe just a function of being in the Conference. I don't know how you do the smiley thing on here.....
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Dec 22, 2014 18:29:08 GMT
Maybe just a function of being in the Conference. That's what I would have said. See what people are saying next year when we're third in L2.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
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Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Dec 22, 2014 18:59:25 GMT
Maybe just a function of being in the Conference. That's what I would have said. See what people are saying next year when we're third in L2. As I said earlier, people should try to separate the historic under performance of the club, and the current performance of the manager. Pointing out that the club should not be in the conference, is irrelevant surely ?
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LPGas
Stuart Taylor
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Post by LPGas on Dec 22, 2014 19:16:03 GMT
We are where we are because we have had so many crap managers who have failed to put a basic team together. Clarke is building, none of the "time to gel" bollocks, he has just got on with it. If you think we should have a new manager, now or next year then you will stop the progress of this team, because another new manager will get another load of players in, and so on and on.
Our troubles began when Higgs got rid of the entire division one team, and employed the idiot Buckle. I said at the time we would struggle but oh no I got lambasted on the OF saying I didn't know what I was talking about. And Bamber, if you are so unhappy with everything connected with the club, get yourself a hobby ffs
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LPGas
Stuart Taylor
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Post by LPGas on Dec 22, 2014 19:17:44 GMT
A lot of the praise for DC seems quite begrudging at times - almost as if it would be simpler if we were 8th/9th and therefore the decision would be a lot easier instead of heading into Christmas pretty securely positioned in the playoffs. I think anyone advocating that they don't want to see him here next year ought to have a realistic idea about who they would rather have and who they think would have us in a better position - because we're basically doing pretty well given the shock of relegation and the cut in wagebill; better than most 'bigger' clubs who get relegated out of the FL. I've been pretty impressed by what I've seen of him in terms of his ability to make adjustments within games like he did on Friday night (and it wasn't just Balanta getting injured - he changed our whole shape and approach to the game) and I'm impressed by the spirit he has instilled in this side even in games I've watched where we've lost and been poor - I'm not quite as impressed by his recruitment or his ability to impose an attacking pattern of play but you never know if that is him or the fact that he has limited resources at his disposal. I would also say that the playoffs is surely the bare minimum expectation for Rovers in this division - there's a limit to the amount of 'rebuilding' that Rovers fans should accept at Conference level I think. So we're in a reasonable position I think there's no need to rush - DC has proven nothing yet so I can't really see clubs from higher up coming and knocking at his door until he has delivered something tangible on his CV. But he's handled a difficult situation well and if he completes the job I don't really understand why anyone would want someone else taking over at that point. The club is desperate for some stability - the moment if we make the playoffs I think he'll have earned an extension. If we don't then I think there's a decision to make; it might be tough for him to continue. Why are you talking sense?
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Dec 22, 2014 19:27:29 GMT
The major move by Darrel Clarke which changed the game for me, apart from Ollie Clarkes equaliser, was to move Sinclair further upfield as he was playing way too deep in the first half. That was the game changer, imo.
All I was saying was...we will never know........ if Balanta had not been injured, the switch may not have happened. As Clarke is not a natural wide man it was a good idea to fill up the middle of the park. Rubbing my hands for next few games: putting Torquay to the sword twice 6pts a six pointer v Macclesfield but just 3 actual points and good chance for away success at Nunners! 12 point out of 12 is really possible this Christmas (Please Santa) DC just said on Made in Bristol that he wasn't aware of any injury when he took Balanta off.
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Post by Topper Gas on Dec 22, 2014 21:09:55 GMT
Could be Balanta knew he was being pulled off so thought he'd do the old I've tweaked my hamstring trick to try and save face?
I guess fans are not taking to DC because we have put in some dour performances despite winning, I'm sure more games like Barnet & Friday will soon turn fans in his favour.
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LJG
Peter Beadle
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Post by LJG on Dec 23, 2014 9:22:33 GMT
We are where we are because we have had so many crap managers who have failed to put a basic team together. Clarke is building, none of the "time to gel" bollocks, he has just got on with it. If you think we should have a new manager, now or next year then you will stop the progress of this team, because another new manager will get another load of players in, and so on and on. Our troubles began when Higgs got rid of the entire division one team, and employed the idiot Buckle. I said at the time we would struggle but oh no I got lambasted on the OF saying I didn't know what I was talking about. And Bamber, if you are so unhappy with everything connected with the club, get yourself a hobby ffs There was too much change when Buckle scrapped the f**king lot. There was also too much change by Trollope when we went up to Lg 1.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
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Post by faggotygas on Dec 23, 2014 9:40:25 GMT
We are where we are because we have had so many crap managers who have failed to put a basic team together. Clarke is building, none of the "time to gel" bollocks, he has just got on with it. If you think we should have a new manager, now or next year then you will stop the progress of this team, because another new manager will get another load of players in, and so on and on. Our troubles began when Higgs got rid of the entire division one team, and employed the idiot Buckle. I said at the time we would struggle but oh no I got lambasted on the OF saying I didn't know what I was talking about. And Bamber, if you are so unhappy with everything connected with the club, get yourself a hobby ffs There was too much change when Buckle scrapped the f**king lot. There was also too much change by Trollope when we went up to Lg 1. Really? I thought that sounded odd, because I couldn't remember many changes in the season after we went up, so I checked - the only senior players who left in 07/08, according to transfermarkt, were Andy Sandell, James Hunt, Sammy Igoe and Scott Shearer. Only Sammy was playing regularly. 4 senior players came in - Hughes, Pipe, Coles and Andy Williams. Pretty standard churn. The next season there was even less movement - only Duffy and Kuffour in, with Haldane, Carruthers and Walker out. It was the season after that where there was a lot of movement, and no coincidence that it was the start of our troubles.
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Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
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Post by Bridgeman on Dec 23, 2014 9:46:45 GMT
There was too much change when Buckle scrapped the f**king lot. There was also too much change by Trollope when we went up to Lg 1. Really? I thought that sounded odd, because I couldn't remember many changes in the season after we went up, so I checked - the only senior players who left in 07/08, according to transfermarkt, were Andy Sandell, James Hunt, Sammy Igoe and Scott Shearer. Only Sammy was playing regularly. 4 senior players came in - Hughes, Pipe, Coles and Andy Williams. Pretty standard churn. The next season there was even less movement - only Duffy and Kuffour in, with Haldane, Carruthers and Walker out. It was the season after that where there was a lot of movement, and no coincidence that it was the start of our troubles. Yes, that was my recollection too, I wouldn't mind finishing in 11th place in League 1 two seasons running now ! Blimey, do you remember how people used to moan in those days
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Post by Topper Gas on Dec 23, 2014 11:00:37 GMT
Really? I thought that sounded odd, because I couldn't remember many changes in the season after we went up, so I checked - the only senior players who left in 07/08, according to transfermarkt, were Andy Sandell, James Hunt, Sammy Igoe and Scott Shearer. Only Sammy was playing regularly. 4 senior players came in - Hughes, Pipe, Coles and Andy Williams. Pretty standard churn. The next season there was even less movement - only Duffy and Kuffour in, with Haldane, Carruthers and Walker out. It was the season after that where there was a lot of movement, and no coincidence that it was the start of our troubles. Yes, that was my recollection too, I wouldn't mind finishing in 11th place in League 1 two seasons running now ! Blimey, do you remember how people used to moan in those days Perhaps our expectations weren't manged that well as I seem to recall PT & NH talking about buidling a for the Championship, perhaps they should have just been talking about staying mid table in Div 1!!! Surely it was NH decision to clear out the Div 1 relegation squad after Campbellgate rather than Buckle's anyway?
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brizzle
Lindsay Parsons
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Post by brizzle on Dec 23, 2014 11:23:38 GMT
Really? I thought that sounded odd, because I couldn't remember many changes in the season after we went up, so I checked - the only senior players who left in 07/08, according to transfermarkt, were Andy Sandell, James Hunt, Sammy Igoe and Scott Shearer. Only Sammy was playing regularly. 4 senior players came in - Hughes, Pipe, Coles and Andy Williams. Pretty standard churn. The next season there was even less movement - only Duffy and Kuffour in, with Haldane, Carruthers and Walker out. It was the season after that where there was a lot of movement, and no coincidence that it was the start of our troubles. Yes, that was my recollection too, I wouldn't mind finishing in 11th place in League 1 two seasons running now ! Blimey, do you remember how people used to moan in those days But it's what we do, surely? Some more than others mind you.
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Dec 23, 2014 11:50:06 GMT
Really? I thought that sounded odd, because I couldn't remember many changes in the season after we went up, so I checked - the only senior players who left in 07/08, according to transfermarkt, were Andy Sandell, James Hunt, Sammy Igoe and Scott Shearer. Only Sammy was playing regularly. 4 senior players came in - Hughes, Pipe, Coles and Andy Williams. Pretty standard churn. The next season there was even less movement - only Duffy and Kuffour in, with Haldane, Carruthers and Walker out. It was the season after that where there was a lot of movement, and no coincidence that it was the start of our troubles. Yes, that was my recollection too, I wouldn't mind finishing in 11th place in League 1 two seasons running now ! Blimey, do you remember how people used to moan in those days Yep after Lambert left dire, awful football that produced results for a season. No apologies from me for moaning about the style of football back then.
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Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
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Post by Bridgeman on Dec 23, 2014 16:02:29 GMT
Yes, that was my recollection too, I wouldn't mind finishing in 11th place in League 1 two seasons running now ! Blimey, do you remember how people used to moan in those days Yep after Lambert left dire, awful football that produced results for a season. No apologies from me for moaning about the style of football back then. But would you moan less about it now if you thought it would lead to us being relegated to the Conference or do you think you would moan whatever league we were in ? I'm not saying it would have made any difference by not moaning but should we have appreciated more where we were at the time ?
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Dec 23, 2014 16:22:19 GMT
Yep after Lambert left dire, awful football that produced results for a season. No apologies from me for moaning about the style of football back then. But would you moan less about it now if you thought it would lead to us being relegated to the Conference or do you think you would moan whatever league we were in ? I'm not saying it would have made any difference by not moaning but should we have appreciated more where we were at the time ? I thought the dire, awful football that PT was dishing up would only be a 'success' in a short term, hence the season Lambert left PT got away with it to a very creditable finish. The next season everyone saw through it & we were going down the pan fast. As to appreciating it more at the time ..... do you appreciate a drowning man flailing in the sea because he has brought himself another 5 minutes of life? Personally I think too many people were very appreciative of PT because of 2007 & closed their eyes to what was actually happening.
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