Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 9:35:30 GMT
Absolutely. A comment above asks why it's 'OK to abuse disabled people but not black/gay etc people' (I paraphrase obviously). Answer being, abuse of disabled people for being disabled isn't actually OK. I'm disabled, it's not OK to abuse me on that basis. Discrimination against people on the basis of any of these things isn't OK. This kind of 'whataboutery' is utter BS - racism still needs to be fought, even when society hasn't caught up with fighting other kinds of discrimination to the extent we have with racism. As for equating abusing ginger people with racism. I mean seriously, what the hell? I know a couple of Gingers have contributed to the thread here and / or on the other forum but my partner's kid is mates with a ginger lad. He has been the victim of bullying for most of his school life. Ironically, the worst of it comes from Black or Asian kids. Until recently I wouldn't have taken it too seriously and dismissed him as overly sensitive. But the fact is, the constant banter and abuse has affected him very badly. Not for a minute suggesting that bullying on the grounds of hair colour, body shape or whatever is a trivial affair. But it isn't the same as racism. Bottom line, all prejudice is out of order
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Post by mancgas has left the building on Oct 8, 2014 9:45:04 GMT
blimey I knew we had some idiots on this forum, but this thread is the net to catch them
Being fat and disabled and with gingers in the family, yes we get loads of negitivity, and yes its very different for attacking someone for his colour or creed (if verified of course- some fans are in the course of doing this with the club I understand)
And as for 'not exactly throwing bananas on the pitch' - words fail me.I was at Eastville when that happened to an opposition player. One of our players (I think it was Keith Curle) said about that game he was so upset he threw up in the changing rooms later. So you arses who think shouting black b'stard, ****** monkey boy or coon only affects one opposition player its aimed at, think again.
As for the game I didnt hear any widepsread racist chanting, but we've all been near odd idiot who ruins the night for 4999 people out of 5000. Indeed there was such an idiot in the main stand a few years ago, who was reported to stewards, warned by club as to his future behavior after he said it was an one off word that came out through frustration and subsequently had his season ticket revoked when the one off happened several times a game in several games thereafter
Now to be controversial I really do believe everyone has a micro gram of racism within them, and if they dont I admire them (tho I do suspect many are are kidding themselves).Let me explain before you jump down my neck.
The test I usually use when debating this is
Q - your beautiful 18 year old daughter brings home a boyfriend for first time, and you open the door and he is a 6ft 5 heavily muscled black guy with massive chains round his neck. What do you think?
And that one micro second of hesitation before saying 'why would I think anything if she wants to be with him thats fine' is the level of racism I am talking about.
However its about being respectful and being able to control the devil within everyone (if people are really honest), and if you cant do that you're not welcome in any club I'm involved with.
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gass
Joined: July 2014
Posts: 118
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Racism?
Oct 8, 2014 9:45:39 GMT
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Post by gass on Oct 8, 2014 9:45:39 GMT
Let me firstly make the point that this is a bit of guesswork, as I didn't hear/see anything myself. Obviously the Dartford goalkeeper got pretty upset over an incident in the second half, resulting of a fan being ejected from the Blackthorn End. I'm guessing that nothing was thrown, as it would have been picked up, and shown to an official. So the only other conclusion that I can come up with is that Brown was the victim of racist abuse. Let me be the first to say that there is no place for racist abuse of any kind at BRFC, and anyone involved should be ashamed of themselves, if this is indeed the case. Can anyone clarify the incident? And what would be your guess as to why 3 Dartford fans were ejected from the away end? I have no idea, bit difficult to get an idea from the Blackthorn End.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Oct 8, 2014 9:54:24 GMT
Q - your beautiful 18 year old daughter brings home a boyfriend for first time, and you open the door and he is a 6ft 5 heavily muscled black guy with massive chains round his neck. What do you think? I'd ask him what he'd been doing since the A Team finished.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 9:58:44 GMT
I work with a 6ft plus heavily muscled black guy who is also a hip hop artist and occasionally watches the Gas. Why on earth would I have a moment's hesitation in those circumstances?
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Racism?
Oct 8, 2014 10:01:22 GMT
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Post by Gastafari on Oct 8, 2014 10:01:22 GMT
Slavery, the Holocaust, massive societal prejudice against homosexuals, and massive imbalances in opportunity against women, massive imbalance in crimes by men against women, are the big, obvious ones, but pretty much most of recent history in regard to homophobia, most of the history of the west for racism, and our entire civilisation for sexism, I would imagine. Absolutely. A comment above asks why it's 'OK to abuse disabled people but not black/gay etc people' (I paraphrase obviously). Answer being, abuse of disabled people for being disabled isn't actually OK. I'm disabled, it's not OK to abuse me on that basis. Discrimination against people on the basis of any of these things isn't OK. This kind of 'whataboutery' is utter BS - racism still needs to be fought, even when society hasn't caught up with fighting other kinds of discrimination to the extent we have with racism. As for equating abusing ginger people with racism. I mean seriously, what the hell? When I said it was ok, I should have worded it better I find any form of abuse about a person's appearance abhorrent, personally, what I meant is that it is deemed far less offensive to abuse somebody regarding disability, nationality etc than it is to abuse them regarding the 3 specific "ism's" that I mentioned! There are many comedians, Frankie Boyle is a main culprit who has made a living making "jokes" about people's disabilities, and he is quite a wealthy man because of it, yet he can carry on doing so because the law say's he can, yet people who make jokes/remarks regarding race, ethnicity, sexual orientation or gender generally are hounded! For me there is no difference Somebody made a comment regarding why he believes the 3 main "ism's are deemed more offensive, and made some good points, but there have also been mass genocides wiping out human beings because of their nationality, but we can still take the piss or make remarks about that, without to much fuss, disabled people throughout history have been murdered, tortured and sent to colonies, but again its not as offensive as the other "ism's! Abuse is abuse and should all be treated as such, others shouldn't be put on a pedastool
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 10:02:40 GMT
Football Conference Statement.... "The Football Conference has been made aware of an allegation of a racist nature in a competition fixture played between Bristol Rovers FC and Dartford FC on Tuesday 7th October at the Memorial Stadium, Bristol. In accordance with normal practice, this has been referred to the Football Association and whilst its investigation is undertaken the Football Conference will not make any comment." www.footballconference.co.uk/mobile/news/details.php?news_id=13575
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BS11Gas
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 117
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Post by BS11Gas on Oct 8, 2014 10:05:11 GMT
I think Ellis has summed it up pretty well on Twitter.
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Post by timothyq on Oct 8, 2014 10:15:23 GMT
I understand that essentially it's only words and any line football draws on what is and is not okay to say will be arbitrary in some respect, but the ginger comparison is a very weird argument for reasons that have already been explained by others!
Generally though, this is starting to get quite nauseating, it's every bloody week now.
Edit to add: just spotted deebs last post and the Frankie Boyle / comedian comments are a long way away from the point of this thread. There's a difference between jokes that cause offence and abuse, I've never seen any incident of Frankie Boyle (who has lots of material except for disabled jokes) or Jim Jeffries etc actually abusing any disabled people.
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Post by bluebeard on Oct 8, 2014 10:17:24 GMT
All those ‘complaining’ about Racism and other prejudices being put on a pedestal. If you feel that strongly about Gingerists or whatever, don’t try and dilute the indefensible, make a stand on the principle that it is not taken as seriously and raise awareness. Don’t try and brush any racism away with the “ what about…” Racism is wrong, Rovers are treading a fine line lately with a number of incidents. No one can claim “what about..” should we get heavily punished. Perhaps we need points deductions or something, to make people take notice I don't think anyone is defending racism they are just debating context and impact. Does a pompous posting on a minor Internet forum constitute you making a stand? I would intervene if I saw someone being racially abused out there in the real world, would you? And dismissing the "what about" argument so arrogantly simply perpetuates It. As long as certain sections of society are perceived as being treated differently they will always be perceived as, well, different. Justice for gingers. Equality for all.
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Post by timothyq on Oct 8, 2014 10:25:29 GMT
All those ‘complaining’ about Racism and other prejudices being put on a pedestal. If you feel that strongly about Gingerists or whatever, don’t try and dilute the indefensible, make a stand on the principle that it is not taken as seriously and raise awareness. Don’t try and brush any racism away with the “ what about…” Racism is wrong, Rovers are treading a fine line lately with a number of incidents. No one can claim “what about..” should we get heavily punished. Perhaps we need points deductions or something, to make people take notice I don't think anyone is defending racism they are just debating context and impact. Does a pompous posting on a minor Internet forum constitute you making a stand? I would intervene if I saw someone being racially abused out there in the real world, would you? And dismissing the "what about" argument so arrogantly simply perpetuates It. As long as certain sections of society are perceived as being treated differently they will always be perceived as, well, different. Justice for gingers. Equality for all. When the law or society or a community takes a stand against mere words is an interesting debate but perhaps its one for another day. The point of this thread is that the FA have set down a very clear standard and allegedly one of our fans has failed to follow the rules. It's not our first crowd incident, it's not even our first this season so I don't know how long the FA can remain patient.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Oct 8, 2014 10:30:11 GMT
And dismissing the "what about" argument so arrogantly simply perpetuates It. As long as certain sections of society are perceived as being treated differently they will always be perceived as, well, different. But it doesn't justify anything and it shouldn't perpetuate it. It's a fallacious argument; that's what is being dismissed. As Rotherham was brought up: no one here is going to defend what happened (is happening) there. The police and the local authorities need to deal with it. It's wrong and it needs to be sorted. Obviously. But, tying that into this incident makes it look like people are forming sides, eg, you can be on the white side or the non-white side. 'Why should we not racially abuse black goalkeepers when there are non-whites committing crimes in Rotherham?' It doesn't take much thought to realise that that is a bad argument. It's quite possible to condemn child kidnap and rape and whatever else was happening there, and at the same time condemn abusing JB. One doesn't rely on the other; they are not mutually exclusive. They are not at the same level of seriousness, but they are both clearly wrong. Why would anyone want to lump the two together unless they were making racist generalisations? When Matty Taylor got abuse for celebrating his goal in front of the Dartford supporters no one said 'what about Jimmy Savile'. That would have been ridiculous. Yet someone thinks that JB getting abuse from the Blackthorn requires a response of 'What about Rotherham.' That is similarly ridiculous.
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dinsdale
Andy Rammell
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 495
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Racism?
Oct 8, 2014 10:31:10 GMT
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Post by dinsdale on Oct 8, 2014 10:31:10 GMT
Im suprised zfc hasn't started about ten threads on this yet He absoluetely loves a bit of racism
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Post by badbloodash on Oct 8, 2014 10:50:18 GMT
Shame Neil Trotman wasn't within earshot. How I'd love to see the big man pick up the scumbag & slam his face into the concrete. So you advocate a player attacking a fan and slamming his face into the concrete but according to your previous posts fans who invade pitch deserve jail sentences what would happen to him 3/4years for Gbh double standards in my view
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 10:58:01 GMT
Im suprised zfc hasn't started about ten threads on this yet He absoluetely loves a bit of racism He's just misunderstood
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dinsdale
Andy Rammell
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 495
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Racism?
Oct 8, 2014 11:03:00 GMT
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Post by dinsdale on Oct 8, 2014 11:03:00 GMT
Im suprised zfc hasn't started about ten threads on this yet He absoluetely loves a bit of racism He's just misunderstood I love that episode
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Racism?
Oct 8, 2014 11:06:17 GMT
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Post by Gastafari on Oct 8, 2014 11:06:17 GMT
Im suprised zfc hasn't started about ten threads on this yet He absoluetely loves a bit of racism He's just misunderstood There's another example of the points I was making! Advocating that somebody supports Nazism is just as offensive! Yet you think its ok to post something like that? Strange
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Racism?
Oct 8, 2014 11:07:29 GMT
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Post by Gastafari on Oct 8, 2014 11:07:29 GMT
I know its an episode of Father Ted by the way
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 11:20:29 GMT
Yeah, it's fine to make reference to a comedy episode poking fun at racism and attitudes towards it. Perfectly OK, yeah, why wouldn't it be?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Racism?
Oct 8, 2014 11:21:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 11:21:48 GMT
The sad fact is a lot of these episodes seem to be carried out by men the wrong side of 40...
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