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Post by Antonio Fargas on Oct 8, 2014 11:22:56 GMT
The sad fact is a lot of these episodes seem to be carried out by men the wrong side of 40... That's a good thing, imo. It could mean that those attitudes are on the wane.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 11:25:14 GMT
The sad fact is a lot of these episodes seem to be carried out by men the wrong side of 40... I blame the Greeks, they INVENTED gayness!
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
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Posts: 2,165
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Post by Cheshiregas on Oct 8, 2014 11:27:33 GMT
Im suprised zfc hasn't started about ten threads on this yet He absoluetely loves a bit of racism Now, now Dins, don't be naughty....
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Racism?
Oct 8, 2014 11:32:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 11:32:30 GMT
The sad fact is a lot of these episodes seem to be carried out by men the wrong side of 40... I blame the Greeks, they INVENTED gayness! I have Greek family and they're very proud of that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 11:34:18 GMT
I blame the Greeks, they INVENTED gayness! I have Greek family and they're very proud of that. tbf I hear it's the Chinese he's after
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Racism?
Oct 8, 2014 11:39:23 GMT
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Post by fatherjackhackett on Oct 8, 2014 11:39:23 GMT
Im suprised zfc hasn't started about ten threads on this yet He absoluetely loves a bit of racism He's just misunderstood Is that gobs**te never off the telly?!
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Racism?
Oct 8, 2014 11:40:41 GMT
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Post by fatherjackhackett on Oct 8, 2014 11:40:41 GMT
The sad fact is a lot of these episodes seem to be carried out by men the wrong side of 40... I blame the Greeks, they INVENTED gayness! No, it's the Chinese he's having a go at.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 11:44:26 GMT
I blame the Greeks, they INVENTED gayness! I have Greek family and they're very proud of that. It's not the fecking greeks he's after, its the Chinese!
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 11:45:01 GMT
I blame the Greeks, they INVENTED gayness! No, it's the Chinese he's having a go at. Touché father!
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Racism?
Oct 8, 2014 11:55:44 GMT
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Post by alloutofgas on Oct 8, 2014 11:55:44 GMT
No, it's the Chinese he's having a go at. Touché father! The Chinese, a great bunch of lads....
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Post by Gregory Stevens on Oct 8, 2014 12:02:29 GMT
And dismissing the "what about" argument so arrogantly simply perpetuates It. As long as certain sections of society are perceived as being treated differently they will always be perceived as, well, different. But it doesn't justify anything and it shouldn't perpetuate it. It's a fallacious argument; that's what is being dismissed. As Rotherham was brought up: no one here is going to defend what happened (is happening) there. The police and the local authorities need to deal with it. It's wrong and it needs to be sorted. Obviously. But, tying that into this incident makes it look like people are forming sides, eg, you can be on the white side or the non-white side. 'Why should we not racially abuse black goalkeepers when there are non-whites committing crimes in Rotherham?' It doesn't take much thought to realise that that is a bad argument. It's quite possible to condemn child kidnap and rape and whatever else was happening there, and at the same time condemn abusing JB. One doesn't rely on the other; they are not mutually exclusive. They are not at the same level of seriousness, but they are both clearly wrong. Why would anyone want to lump the two together unless they were making racist generalisations? When Matty Taylor got abuse for celebrating his goal in front of the Dartford supporters no one said 'what about Jimmy Savile'. That would have been ridiculous. Yet someone thinks that JB getting abuse from the Blackthorn requires a response of 'What about Rotherham.' That is similarly ridiculous. Antonio, that's a measured opinion and it's changing my own view on things here. I was very provocative last night in the way in which I expressed myself, hence I deleted some posts. Plus, being called a racist because I don't agree with the modern idea of multiculturalism or pc got me to the point that I just wanted to withdraw. You're right that factionalising it is wrong, and you can't justify racism on one hand because it's happened the other way around. What I really hope you will understand is that some people, like me, weren't alive in the 70s and i barely remember the 80s. I've never seen white skinheads and my schooling from an early age was anti racist, rightfully so. Now, what makes one feel the reaction to this is overblown, is because the very same people who have been fanatically imprisoning Twitter morons who say the n word, were deliberately covering up racism on a whole others level for self interested reasons, such as votes and the fear of having ones career ruined. I hope you can see how when viewing much more trivial matters - no one was raped or kidnapped here, the response by authorities is far swifter and harsher, leading one to believe that there is a 2 tier criminal justice system. This makes one become cynical about small matters, but, it doesn't excuse anything. I grant you I missed the point re ginger hair, there isnt the same history so although it is relevant in as much as its a slur or insult based on one's genetic make up, its not as loaded as other types of discrimination. I think the blame for the increasing trend of reaction to pc can be levied at the inability of authorities to change with the times. I really hope you can understand it isnt racism, or racist, to challenge the application of law to varying communities, and it isn't a defense of racism to point to the extreme disparity in the way its represented. One rule for all in my book. Currently, 1000s of racially aggravated rapes on children aren't being punished, but one word from a football fan and it's a witch hunt. Please try to understand why you become rather cynical about it all. You ask why it becomes about white v non white, or group v group - and there's your answer. The authorities are NOT applying the law equally.
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brizzle
Lindsay Parsons
No Buy . . . No Sell!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,293
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Post by brizzle on Oct 8, 2014 12:04:39 GMT
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Oct 8, 2014 12:27:08 GMT
But it doesn't justify anything and it shouldn't perpetuate it. It's a fallacious argument; that's what is being dismissed. As Rotherham was brought up: no one here is going to defend what happened (is happening) there. The police and the local authorities need to deal with it. It's wrong and it needs to be sorted. Obviously. But, tying that into this incident makes it look like people are forming sides, eg, you can be on the white side or the non-white side. 'Why should we not racially abuse black goalkeepers when there are non-whites committing crimes in Rotherham?' It doesn't take much thought to realise that that is a bad argument. It's quite possible to condemn child kidnap and rape and whatever else was happening there, and at the same time condemn abusing JB. One doesn't rely on the other; they are not mutually exclusive. They are not at the same level of seriousness, but they are both clearly wrong. Why would anyone want to lump the two together unless they were making racist generalisations? When Matty Taylor got abuse for celebrating his goal in front of the Dartford supporters no one said 'what about Jimmy Savile'. That would have been ridiculous. Yet someone thinks that JB getting abuse from the Blackthorn requires a response of 'What about Rotherham.' That is similarly ridiculous. Antonio, that's a measured opinion and it's changing my own view on things here. I was very provocative last night in the way in which I expressed myself, hence I deleted some posts. Plus, being called a racist because I don't agree with the modern idea of multiculturalism or pc got me to the point that I just wanted to withdraw. You're right that factionalising it is wrong, and you can't justify racism on one hand because it's happened the other way around. What I really hope you will understand is that some people, like me, weren't alive in the 70s and 80s. I've never seen white skinheads and my schooling from an early age was anti racist, rightfully so. Now, what makes one feel the reaction to this is overblown, is because the very same people who have been fanatically imprisoning Twitter morons who say the n word, were deliberately covering up racism on a whole others level for self interested reasons, such as votes and the fear of having ones career ruined. I hope you can see how when viewing much more trivial matters - no one was raped or kidnapped here, the response by authorities is far swifter and harsher, leading one to believe that there is a 2 tier criminal justice system. This makes one become cynical about small matters, but, it doesn't excuse anything. I grant you I missed the point re ginger hair, there isnt the same history so although it is relevant in as much as its a slur or insult based on one's genetic make up, its not as loaded as other types of discrimination. I think the blame for the increasing trend of reaction to pc can be levied at the inability of authorities to change with the times. I really hope you can understand it isnt racism, or racist, to challenge the application of law to varying communities, and it isn't a defense of racism to point to the extreme disparity in the way its represented. One rule for all in my book. Currently, 1000s of racially aggravated rapes on children aren't being punished, but one word from a football fan and it's a witch hunt. Please try to understand why you become rather cynical about it all. You ask why it becomes about white v non white, or group v group - and there's your answer. The authorities are NOT applying the law equally. No, fair play, mate, I can get behind a lot of that. I know that white working class men (that's me, too) often feel they get the worst of all deals. Whites obviously benefited from a lot of the inequalities of the past, but istm the working class did not really benefit that much. The ruling class, as ever, benefited the most. As a bit of a leftie, I would say that white working class should unite with the black working class to sort this out, and not have, as a lot of the ruling classes and press would like it, white working class against the black working class, in order to sell their papers, or win votes, or evade culpability. The Rotherham and related incidents are clearly appalling, and I agree that fear of 'political correctness' or whatever you want to call it contributed a lot to that debacle. And it's important we learn our lessons. But istm it was caused by a decent (ish) system failing badly, not by a bad system working as it should.
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Post by bluebeard on Oct 8, 2014 12:28:17 GMT
If I could delete my earlier posts I would as I didn't appreciate the gravity of the situation. As confectionery goes, maltesers are right down there with liquorice all sorts. I think the keeper had every right to be outraged. My ginger acquaintance is often likened to a carrot. At least a carrot is a rich source of vitamin A.
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Post by Gregory Stevens on Oct 8, 2014 12:39:38 GMT
Antonio, that's a measured opinion and it's changing my own view on things here. I was very provocative last night in the way in which I expressed myself, hence I deleted some posts. Plus, being called a racist because I don't agree with the modern idea of multiculturalism or pc got me to the point that I just wanted to withdraw. You're right that factionalising it is wrong, and you can't justify racism on one hand because it's happened the other way around. What I really hope you will understand is that some people, like me, weren't alive in the 70s and 80s. I've never seen white skinheads and my schooling from an early age was anti racist, rightfully so. Now, what makes one feel the reaction to this is overblown, is because the very same people who have been fanatically imprisoning Twitter morons who say the n word, were deliberately covering up racism on a whole others level for self interested reasons, such as votes and the fear of having ones career ruined. I hope you can see how when viewing much more trivial matters - no one was raped or kidnapped here, the response by authorities is far swifter and harsher, leading one to believe that there is a 2 tier criminal justice system. This makes one become cynical about small matters, but, it doesn't excuse anything. I grant you I missed the point re ginger hair, there isnt the same history so although it is relevant in as much as its a slur or insult based on one's genetic make up, its not as loaded as other types of discrimination. I think the blame for the increasing trend of reaction to pc can be levied at the inability of authorities to change with the times. I really hope you can understand it isnt racism, or racist, to challenge the application of law to varying communities, and it isn't a defense of racism to point to the extreme disparity in the way its represented. One rule for all in my book. Currently, 1000s of racially aggravated rapes on children aren't being punished, but one word from a football fan and it's a witch hunt. Please try to understand why you become rather cynical about it all. You ask why it becomes about white v non white, or group v group - and there's your answer. The authorities are NOT applying the law equally. No, fair play, mate, I can get behind a lot of that. I know that white working class men (that's me, too) often feel they get the worst of all deals. Whites obviously benefited from a lot of the inequalities of the past, but istm the working class did not really benefit that much. The ruling class, as ever, benefited the most. As a bit of a leftie, I would say that white working class should unite with the black working class to sort this out, and not have, as a lot of the ruling classes and press would like it, white working class against the black working class, in order to sale their papers, or win votes, or evade culpability. The Rotherham and related incidents are clearly appalling, and I agree that fear of 'political correctness' or whatever you want to call it contributed a lot to that debacle. And it's important we learn our lessons. But istm it was caused by a decent (ish) system failing badly, not by a bad system working as it should. Agree in many ways. I'm only right wing on economics, not social issues...I'm far left if anything on gay rights and equality in law. I don't know whether you agree but I've often argued that pc is the middle and ruling classes making thewhite working class of the UK pay for the advantages and guilt of the ruling classes. You don't see refugees being placed in Surrey, with pressures on THEIR schools, hospitals etc. No. It's the single mother in southmead, or the poor working family in knowle who have to adapt. My ancestors (I've traced it) were in pits, the army or the workhouse. While it's better than being on a ship as human chattels, they sure as Damn it weren't lording it on champagne on the back of the empire, they were dying of typhoid at 38 working in satanic mills! I'd agree that it's divide and rule. I often wonder if what would view as the special protection of certain groups is done to enrage the public to not feel too bad about bombing the s**t out of their families abroad....there's a conspiracy theory for you!
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 12:47:11 GMT
Tbh I'm not setting much store by the account of someone who seems to believe that campaigning against racism makes you less believable when you say that you've been the target of it
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Post by fanatical on Oct 8, 2014 13:12:41 GMT
So he's not prepared to keep his head down and just accept it. He's someone who'll stand up and be counted. Good for him, football and society needs people like him surely at this moment in time it is an allegation - no more than that
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Racism?
Oct 8, 2014 14:00:13 GMT
via mobile
Post by CountyGroundHotel on Oct 8, 2014 14:00:13 GMT
Tbh I'm not setting much store by the account of someone who seems to believe that campaigning against racism makes you less believable when you say that you've been the target of it But anti-racism campaigners like to use confectionary terms, hence Rio Ferdinand retweeting choc ice in reference to Ashley Cole. And he's stupid enough to wonder why Ashley Cole doesn't talk too him
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Post by Centenary Gas on Oct 8, 2014 15:02:41 GMT
If I could delete my earlier posts I would as I didn't appreciate the gravity of the situation. As confectionery goes, maltesers are right down there with liquorice all sorts. I think the keeper had every right to be outraged. My ginger acquaintance is often likened to a carrot. At least a carrot is a rich source of vitamin A. What was actually shouted at the GK? No one has actually said, for all the debate about it and people around at the time.
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Alveston Gas
Brucie Bannister
Once a Gashead always a Gashead
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 746
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Post by Alveston Gas on Oct 8, 2014 15:22:59 GMT
Knowing what the current climate is like anyone shouting any abuse that has any racial or homophobic leanings must be either incredibly stupid or have no understanding of the world we live in. It's totally unacceptable anywhere or at any time, banter or not, unacceptable!
It's particularly stupid to do this at a football match where we are being watched by Police, Stewards, CCTV and our fellow fans, it's bizarre that anyone would take such a risk.
I hope it's a lesson to any other idiots out there.
Rovers image is being tainted by a tiny minority we can do without. Get behind the team, shout, sing support but in the right way or not at all.
COYB
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