blueginger
David Williams
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 166
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Post by blueginger on Sept 13, 2014 19:32:27 GMT
Ok... so a lot of different views on this. .. firstly I was asked by mark a week before the meeting if id attend , I was grateful to be invited and AS A NORMAL FAN was interested to hear a view from Chris Jelf as too what had gone so wrong with our club. As far as im aware it was no secret I didnt mention it on here before hand as I disnt want the risk of Mr Jelf pulling out ( I didnt organise the meet so I didnt know if there wete any conditions to it) it was very very onformal , not much different to any chat id had with 5 other gasheads , the chat involved all sorts and my own interpretation of things said maybe different to others , mark arranged the meeting and is I believe going to write a report on it. But briefly some of the things mentioned ... they were very bullish that we will win our battle with Sainsburys , finances are tight and the budget has been cut by 20-30% ... wardy turned down the chance to buy at least 2 proven strikers. .. promotion this season is very important. .. they accept a lot has gone wrong and that communication and getting the club its staff and fans pulling together is vital and the board must work harder to enable that..the internal review has not been exactly followed up as board members time has been limited especially by the fight to sell the mem, investment is welcome and needed ... they promised to hold more meetings with fans and want to organise something to make use of supporters skills and knowledge. .... Finally Kevin Spencer. .. there view was thatthis is a issue between kevin and Nick and whilst it would be good for all to sort it their was more to it than they can sort out ... thus is what was said not my views .... there is more meat to add to the bones of it all that im sure will be in a report of the meeting ... anyonevwanting more info is welcone to pm me and I'll answer when I can . Finally BRISA didnt arrange this meeting so fair playvto mark for inviting us and its fair to say that right now BRISA is close to folding as no one has been willing to offer the help required despite many requests ... its a shame that from 300 members that no more than a handful have been willing to step forward at all it will beva shane to waste a lot of hard work but what more can we do ... as it stands its 2 blokes with 3 foot soldiers at best... any ideas and help is welcome but unless more people come forward to stand up and put themselves forward to properly help and plan there is no future for BRISA... those moaning that they weren't part of this meeting are welcome to take over my place as a face/organiser of BRISA . I offered to help as the founder had some issues personally that were far more important .. I didnt want to see a good idea go to waste I just jope some others can see this and step up Great 3 points today. .. onwards and upwards! ! Edit Excuse the grammer im fitting this in whilst trying to get my kids off to bed... bad grammer is better than no post at all I think its great that someone like you is prepared to stand up and be counted and show a passion for our football club, I wish I had more time to spare and could help out. It would be a shame if BRISA did fold, we need a independent voice. Perhaps the groaners and moaners who felt left out would like to step forward.
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Post by bemmygas on Sept 13, 2014 19:46:31 GMT
Ok... so a lot of different views on this. .. firstly I was asked by mark a week before the meeting if id attend , I was grateful to be invited and AS A NORMAL FAN was interested to hear a view from Chris Jelf as too what had gone so wrong with our club. As far as im aware it was no secret I didnt mention it on here before hand as I disnt want the risk of Mr Jelf pulling out ( I didnt organise the meet so I didnt know if there wete any conditions to it) it was very very onformal , not much different to any chat id had with 5 other gasheads , the chat involved all sorts and my own interpretation of things said maybe different to others , mark arranged the meeting and is I believe going to write a report on it. But briefly some of the things mentioned ... they were very bullish that we will win our battle with Sainsburys , finances are tight and the budget has been cut by 20-30% ... wardy turned down the chance to buy at least 2 proven strikers. .. promotion this season is very important. .. they accept a lot has gone wrong and that communication and getting the club its staff and fans pulling together is vital and the board must work harder to enable that..the internal review has not been exactly followed up as board members time has been limited especially by the fight to sell the mem, investment is welcome and needed ... they promised to hold more meetings with fans and want to organise something to make use of supporters skills and knowledge. .... Finally Kevin Spencer. .. there view was thatthis is a issue between kevin and Nick and whilst it would be good for all to sort it their was more to it than they can sort out ... thus is what was said not my views .... there is more meat to add to the bones of it all that im sure will be in a report of the meeting ... anyonevwanting more info is welcone to pm me and I'll answer when I can . Finally BRISA didnt arrange this meeting so fair playvto mark for inviting us and its fair to say that right now BRISA is close to folding as no one has been willing to offer the help required despite many requests ... its a shame that from 300 members that no more than a handful have been willing to step forward at all it will beva shane to waste a lot of hard work but what more can we do ... as it stands its 2 blokes with 3 foot soldiers at best... any ideas and help is welcome but unless more people come forward to stand up and put themselves forward to properly help and plan there is no future for BRISA... those moaning that they weren't part of this meeting are welcome to take over my place as a face/organiser of BRISA . I offered to help as the founder had some issues personally that were far more important .. I didnt want to see a good idea go to waste I just jope some others can see this and step up Great 3 points today. .. onwards and upwards! ! Edit Excuse the grammer im fitting this in whilst trying to get my kids off to bed... bad grammer is better than no post at all Thank you.
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aghast
David Williams
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 395
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Post by aghast on Sept 13, 2014 22:22:28 GMT
I must say I am mystified by much of this.
Unless I have misunderstood or missed things. I joined up to BRISA and have seen or heard nothing much since that early activity.
I expected news, plans and information. but it seems to gone dead.
Then I hear, as I understand it, that a small group of Wellingtons and/or BRISA members went for a quiet drink and chat with Directors of BRFC. Without telling anyone. Without inviting BSS, of all people.
All very odd, and very confusing to a simple soul like me who wonders where the original aims of organising a fan-based meeting/website/forum organisation went?
As I say, I am confused.
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Post by mehewmagic on Sept 13, 2014 23:13:37 GMT
If you were not seen i doubt you would ever have told us It makes no difference, they haven't even got proper notes to record what was said. Then you have someone who was there representing one of the supporters' groups, accusing posters on this thread of ''intolerance and stupidity'', he then tells us all to ''shut up and wait'' I'm not surprised that only 20 people attended their meeting if they think that's a normal way to communicate. i was one of the 20 and very disappointed that someone running BRISA would write that. the irony of complaining about intolerance whilst being intolerant...
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Post by mehewmagic on Sept 13, 2014 23:20:19 GMT
I must say I am mystified by much of this. Unless I have misunderstood or missed things. I joined up to BRISA and have seen or heard nothing much since that early activity. I expected news, plans and information. but it seems to gone dead. Then I hear, as I understand it, that a small group of Wellingtons and/or BRISA members went for a quiet drink and chat with Directors of BRFC. Without telling anyone. Without inviting BSS, of all people. All very odd, and very confusing to a simple soul like me who wonders where the original aims of organising a fan-based meeting/website/forum organisation went? As I say, I am confused. you seem to be living up to your forum name
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Post by mehewmagic on Sept 13, 2014 23:23:58 GMT
Edit Excuse the grammer im fitting this in whilst trying to get my kids off to bed... bad grammer is better than no post at all thanks for all of that and totally agree with your 'edit'. know how you feel.
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Post by mehewmagic on Sept 13, 2014 23:33:54 GMT
Mark & Co well done for trying to instigate dialogue with the directors (it's important that the dialogue is with the directors that make the decisions). Unfortunately the same old faces who only now sit behind their computers are already trying to sabotage your efforts, quite pathetic really. Keep up what your doing & ignore the 'been there done that' brigade they'll no longer solve any problems this club has. Quite ironic that people are criticising you for the fans directors not being there when I bet none of them have shown any interest in voting in the upcoming election. Laughable isn't it. Thanks ! Some of you have not read carefully what I posted earlier. The meeting was arranged to enable The Wellie Group reps to ask the questions which were not asked/answered from the Q & A back in July. It was also our idea to have a small group meeting on this occasion as we felt it would give us a better chance to get through the questions. So please do not criticise the club (directors) for being sneaky and do not have a go at the BRISA members present because it was our choice to invite them. Both Wellie Group and BRISA tried to lead action/dialogue all summer and it was a lot of damn hardwork and persistence that has helped to get these meetings/events happening. It would be nice if FELLOW GASHEADS could respect that at least. hopefully most gasheads can respect the work you and others have done, and also who originated the meeting, but it's not helped when 1 of those 5 labels gasheads stupid and tells them to shut up and wait. I don't expect that at work, I don't expect that at home, I don't expect that from friends, I don't expect that at college, I don't expect that in a shop, I don't expect that at voluntary work, and i don't see why I should expect that from a gashead, even on a forum.
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Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,549
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Post by Bridgeman on Sept 15, 2014 22:51:14 GMT
I think those who have been involved with BRISA are finding it difficult to get support from people who are willing to offer their time and energy to the running of the organisation as it currently exists. As I understand it the originator of BRISA is unable to be involved because of family reasons. It therefore has lost the momentum of his 'leadership' and why things went quiet during the summer and Lockleazer has stepped in at his request to continue promoting its cause but he can only do so much and unless other people step forward who agree with its principles and who want, are able and have the time to give to it I guess it will not continue for much longer. If I'm wrong in my summary of the present position then I apologise but that's how I perceive it to be at the moment.
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lockleazer
Tarki Micalleff
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 411
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Post by lockleazer on Sept 16, 2014 6:58:55 GMT
I think those who have been involved with BRISA are finding it difficult to get support from people who are willing to offer their time and energy to the running of the organisation as it currently exists. As I understand it the originator of BRISA is unable to be involved because of family reasons. It therefore has lost the momentum of his 'leadership' and why things went quiet during the summer and Lockleazer has stepped in at his request to continue promoting its cause but he can only do so much and unless other people step forward who agree with its principles and who want, are able and have the time to give to it I guess it will not continue for much longer. If I'm wrong in my summary of the present position then I apologise but that's how I perceive it to be at the moment. Spot on my friend, BRISA was set up to be led by members and run by members , we have 300 members and just 1 or local people willing to put effort in rather than just sign up, there has been great work by people like gassed up who have done this depsite living way out in tghe sticks and also admin help from afar a field as New Zealand and a few others who live away from Bristol but its hands on local help that is required and NOW, if nobody comes forward in the next 7- 10 days then BRISA will be closed down and will Fold.
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LJG
Peter Beadle
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 969
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Post by LJG on Sept 16, 2014 7:43:54 GMT
I think those who have been involved with BRISA are finding it difficult to get support from people who are willing to offer their time and energy to the running of the organisation as it currently exists. As I understand it the originator of BRISA is unable to be involved because of family reasons. It therefore has lost the momentum of his 'leadership' and why things went quiet during the summer and Lockleazer has stepped in at his request to continue promoting its cause but he can only do so much and unless other people step forward who agree with its principles and who want, are able and have the time to give to it I guess it will not continue for much longer. If I'm wrong in my summary of the present position then I apologise but that's how I perceive it to be at the moment. Spot on my friend, BRISA was set up to be led by members and run by members , we have 300 members and just 1 or local people willing to put effort in rather than just sign up, there has been great work by people like gassed up who have done this depsite living way out in tghe sticks and also admin help from afar a field as New Zealand and a few others who live away from Bristol but its hands on local help that is required and NOW, if nobody comes forward in the next 7- 10 days then BRISA will be closed down and will Fold. The first week BRISA was set up I sent a PM offering my services, be they administrative, operational or intellectual and received no response or acknowledgement so what do you expect?
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 16, 2014 7:48:46 GMT
It seems a bit of a pointless excercise to me setting up a protest group then expecting other fans to take over running the group?
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lockleazer
Tarki Micalleff
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 411
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Post by lockleazer on Sept 16, 2014 9:16:38 GMT
Spot on my friend, BRISA was set up to be led by members and run by members , we have 300 members and just 1 or local people willing to put effort in rather than just sign up, there has been great work by people like gassed up who have done this depsite living way out in tghe sticks and also admin help from afar a field as New Zealand and a few others who live away from Bristol but its hands on local help that is required and NOW, if nobody comes forward in the next 7- 10 days then BRISA will be closed down and will Fold. The first week BRISA was set up I sent a PM offering my services, be they administrative, operational or intellectual and received no response or acknowledgement so what do you expect? I can only offer my appologies , i personally have relied to anyone that has contacted me on here since i have been involved please PM me if you want to talk about it, was the PM sent to me? i dont have anything in my PM inbox form you? i may have gone to Strung out who origianlly set up BRISA but has some personal issues that mean he can no longer dedicate the time to BRISA that he wished too , so i reluctantly took it on with Richard my appologies once again
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lockleazer
Tarki Micalleff
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 411
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Post by lockleazer on Sept 16, 2014 9:21:14 GMT
It seems a bit of a pointless excercise to me setting up a protest group then expecting other fans to take over running the group? It takes more than 1or 2 people to run a credible supporters group (not a protest group) Brisa was set up to offer fans the chance to have a fans group that set its own adgenda and was seperate from the club (unlike the offical BRSC) it was to offer help , suggestions and sensible critiscism if it was deserved and practical. A chance for an independent fans voice , sadly it appeasr that pathy rules and the majority are happy with the way things are at BRFC and thats is their right , so it all points to the folding of BRISA
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 16, 2014 10:31:26 GMT
It seems a bit of a pointless excercise to me setting up a protest group then expecting other fans to take over running the group? It takes more than 1or 2 people to run a credible supporters group (not a protest group) Brisa was set up to offer fans the chance to have a fans group that set its own adgenda and was seperate from the club (unlike the offical BRSC) it was to offer help , suggestions and sensible critiscism if it was deserved and practical. A chance for an independent fans voice , sadly it appeasr that pathy rules and the majority are happy with the way things are at BRFC and thats is their right , so it all points to the folding of BRISA Or just haven't got the time to get involved, plus the fact most fans sense nothing major will change whilst the UWE/sale of the Mem is still a possiblity for NH.
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Post by mancgas has left the building on Sept 16, 2014 10:31:32 GMT
Unfortunately in my 40 odd years, I've seen many protest groups start and fold within months as they reach out to people with no specifics, poorly communicate and/or dont really seem to understand the problems they are focusing on, and what answers they can give. Half the problem is the secret closed club that runs the organisation- we've got 2 fans directors, but apparently everything discussed at Board meetings is confidential, and there's no visible evidence that these 2 challenge anything- the fear seems to be rock the boat and we'll lose the seats. I worked at the top of a FTSE100 company for 14 years.After every Board and Executive committee meeting there was a full briefing issued to all heads of department and managers, missing only the real confidential stuff, ie price sensitive material for us or the co-contractor. This briefing was intended to ensure all parties knew what direction was being aimed at and what we as individuals needed to achieve as their part of the plan. We knew all about management accounts, profit centres, loss making areas,future strategy, ROI intentions and expense controls.It was our job to brief our staff once per moth on everything we'd been told. Despite being FTSE100, we were able to brief a hell of a lot of information, able to get the whole organisation and its staff pulling together. There was even a brief given to staff at outsourcers who were working for other firms on our behalf. We created a feeling of all in it together, although of course the real owners were large investment and pension funds and the Board were on millions of pounds a year, compared to £10,000 at lower levels. But everyone felt part of something. I've never understood the fear at Bristol Rovers about sharing information, given its a privately owned company and doenst have the price sensitive controls a larger publicly owned firm has. Sharing information puts peer pressure on staff at all levels to perform to standards, information flows both ways, generally on where the strategy is failing, and what obvious improvements are seen from the shop floor which those in the corridors of power would not see. As long as Higgs et all operate like MI5, where the relationships with even Pasty hut franchisees is a secret guarded like the Mona Lisa, a club as small as us (in grand scheme of things which doesnt have a billionaire willing to become a millionaire very quickly) will never succeed. Fans Board representatives should challenge and report back - we recently had the ridiculous example of a Fans Director not being able to get an answer on happy hours, proudly reporting he had written to the Board to get an answer - incredible, in effect he was writing to himself. This club needs to develop feedback loops BOTH WAYS, open information architecture and try and get back to the Twerton position where everyone knew literally everything and fans will support, fans will help and the club will move forward. Take just one example, many months after relegation we are told of secret deals by supporters club to hand over £20k for a new striker, now we learn of 2 experienced striker signings being possible.Do you think Ward would have dared not do something if that info was public knowledge. As it was he was allowed to wallow in a belief that all was OK, be aggressive on the radio as information blackouts meant he could (apparently if we are being told the truth now)simply use excuses which were ,it is now claimed, wrong (no budget etc) Also of course open information also ensures people cant say things which are not true after the event and when people are bound by sacking confidentiality clauses SO in summary if the Board had any sense we wouldn't need protest Groups, groups of like minded pub goer's trusts or anything other than a Board who live up to the often wafted about comment that we are all in it together. At moment its just words, costs nothing to make it reality, and would make this club a better one.
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Post by eastvilleern on Sept 16, 2014 10:40:05 GMT
So a group of Gasheads have an evening out chatting about the Rovers and have the great idea of inviting a couple of fellow Gasheads who happen to be Directors of the Club, this gives them access to people who are actually in the know. These guys and gals have met up before and have probably all had a great time and have a great deal of mutual respect. The previous meetings were advertised and open to all, but some were very disparaging and dismissed it as beneath them as it was just a group of "Pissed up Pub Moaners" which wouldn't change anything.
Why would this so called Welly Group want their evening hijacked by some table bangers determined to apportion blame for the failings of the past rather than inquire what solutions the Club have in place to improve the future? Personally it strikes me some people with their heads ups their combined arses have had their noses put out of joint by some genuinely decent Gasheads and they are acting like a cat on lead after their inflated egos have been popped. So there may have been no notes, no minutes, no matters arising and no one will be reporting back, but they had a fantastic evening in the company of fellow Gasheads. Sounds like a great night to me.
If there is a thirst to have a greater say in the Club might I suggest the Supporters club who have freely elected positions, this route does however mean you have to do more than simply shout loudest.
Regards Rich Utg
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vaughan
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,237
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Post by vaughan on Sept 16, 2014 13:16:19 GMT
Manc Gas and Eastvilleern - spot on.
It's about open, honest communication (large - Manc, intimate - Eastvilleern) from the top downwards.
People are trying to undermine and over-complicate this.
Jelf would communicate so much better than Higgs.
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Lazza
Rod Hull
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 264
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Post by Lazza on Sept 16, 2014 14:13:09 GMT
Jelf would communicate so much better than Higgs. Agreed. No way on earth could CJ do a worse job, but has he got the time or commitment needed? He'd certainly make a far superior chairman to Higgs IMHO if he did have the time/commitment. Going by his match attendance so far this season I'd say no. For someone whose new job is reporting on & watching BRFC players I can't see how he can do that job, never mind actually qualified for it even.
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vaughan
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,237
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Post by vaughan on Sept 16, 2014 15:12:31 GMT
Is that his new job?
Jelf Out!!
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 16:44:58 GMT
Unfortunately in my 40 odd years, I've seen many protest groups start and fold within months as they reach out to people with no specifics, poorly communicate and/or dont really seem to understand the problems they are focusing on, and what answers they can give. Half the problem is the secret closed club that runs the organisation- we've got 2 fans directors, but apparently everything discussed at Board meetings is confidential, and there's no visible evidence that these 2 challenge anything- the fear seems to be rock the boat and we'll lose the seats. I worked at the top of a FTSE100 company for 14 years.After every Board and Executive committee meeting there was a full briefing issued to all heads of department and managers, missing only the real confidential stuff, ie price sensitive material for us or the co-contractor. This briefing was intended to ensure all parties knew what direction was being aimed at and what we as individuals needed to achieve as their part of the plan. We knew all about management accounts, profit centres, loss making areas,future strategy, ROI intentions and expense controls.It was our job to brief our staff once per moth on everything we'd been told. Despite being FTSE100, we were able to brief a hell of a lot of information, able to get the whole organisation and its staff pulling together. There was even a brief given to staff at outsourcers who were working for other firms on our behalf. We created a feeling of all in it together, although of course the real owners were large investment and pension funds and the Board were on millions of pounds a year, compared to £10,000 at lower levels. But everyone felt part of something. I've never understood the fear at Bristol Rovers about sharing information, given its a privately owned company and doenst have the price sensitive controls a larger publicly owned firm has. Sharing information puts peer pressure on staff at all levels to perform to standards, information flows both ways, generally on where the strategy is failing, and what obvious improvements are seen from the shop floor which those in the corridors of power would not see. As long as Higgs et all operate like MI5, where the relationships with even Pasty hut franchisees is a secret guarded like the Mona Lisa, a club as small as us (in grand scheme of things which doesnt have a billionaire willing to become a millionaire very quickly) will never succeed. Fans Board representatives should challenge and report back - we recently had the ridiculous example of a Fans Director not being able to get an answer on happy hours, proudly reporting he had written to the Board to get an answer - incredible, in effect he was writing to himself. This club needs to develop feedback loops BOTH WAYS, open information architecture and try and get back to the Twerton position where everyone knew literally everything and fans will support, fans will help and the club will move forward. Take just one example, many months after relegation we are told of secret deals by supporters club to hand over £20k for a new striker, now we learn of 2 experienced striker signings being possible.Do you think Ward would have dared not do something if that info was public knowledge. As it was he was allowed to wallow in a belief that all was OK, be aggressive on the radio as information blackouts meant he could (apparently if we are being told the truth now)simply use excuses which were ,it is now claimed, wrong (no budget etc) Also of course open information also ensures people cant say things which are not true after the event and when people are bound by sacking confidentiality clauses SO in summary if the Board had any sense we wouldn't need protest Groups, groups of like minded pub goer's trusts or anything other than a Board who live up to the often wafted about comment that we are all in it together. At moment its just words, costs nothing to make it reality, and would make this club a better one. Superb post.
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