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Post by baselswh on Sept 8, 2024 11:18:02 GMT
Apparently 337 Gasheads at Barnsley.I applaud these supporters. I think that means our away support maybe decreasing.
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JeffNZ
Administrator
Jimmy Morgan
Joined: May 2014
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Post by JeffNZ on Sept 8, 2024 19:53:48 GMT
I thought the whole stadium looked half empty. Not sure how the crowd size matched up against Barnsley's average.
The fact it was on TV followed by an England game would have deterrred quite a number of casual supporters.
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Post by rideintothesun on Sept 8, 2024 21:55:18 GMT
I thought the whole stadium looked half empty. Not sure how the crowd size matched up against Barnsley's average. The fact it was on TV followed by an England game would have deterrred quite a number of casual supporters. After the Euros, I would genuinely rather watch Forest Green vs Oldham on television. Genuine question - how much interest will there would be after our pretty poor Euros and given the fact that there is too much international football? Yes, the team made the final but the football was generally unwatchable dross, wasn't it? Really horrible stuff, and such a waste of the talent we had in the squad. The general tournament wasn't high standard either - compared to Euro 1996 or 2000, it really wasn't up to much. Spain were deserved winners but not a patch on the 2010 WC winners. Pretty big disappointment, like most international tournaments for quite some time now. Carsley made it all about him - like any third-rate performer, could have just mimed and then everybody would have been happy. Bring in Howe, give him some singing lessons, and start ditching the big names (including Kane and possibly Foden and/or Bellingham for starters) who fell well short when it mattered.
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bloogas
Joined: July 2016
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Post by bloogas on Sept 9, 2024 7:34:06 GMT
"Carsley made it all about him - like any third-rate performer, could have just mimed and then everybody would have been happy. Bring in Howe, give him some singing lessons, and start ditching the big names (including Kane and possibly Foden and/or Bellingham for starters) who fell well short when it mattered." Your inference is, with respect, that he can't sing. He was in fact making a political point very visibly.
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
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Post by Cheshiregas on Sept 9, 2024 7:53:31 GMT
Carsley wasn't making a political point, he has not sung the anthem when he was U21 manager. Why should he start now? Other managers haven't sung the anthem. He's also played for Ireland. It didn't take the Southgate boo boys long to start on the new manager....
Interesting that the Daily Mail had a pop at him as well. The paper's patriotic owner who lives in a mansion in Monaco, pays tax in France and identifies as French. The Mail is registered in Bermuda and pays no tax anywhere. Some people need to get perspective. Especially - we had a poor Euros reaching the final. Really, the football wasn't great but we were runners up. A lot better than some of our past results....
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Post by rideintothesun on Sept 9, 2024 8:02:16 GMT
"Carsley made it all about him - like any third-rate performer, could have just mimed and then everybody would have been happy. Bring in Howe, give him some singing lessons, and start ditching the big names (including Kane and possibly Foden and/or Bellingham for starters) who fell well short when it mattered." Your inference is, with respect, that he can't sing. He was in fact making a political point very visibly. I was speaking with tongue firmly in cheek. He was also making a political point very badly. I don't care about him and I don't care about what he thinks about the British monarchy. I do care that he is supposed to be representing the country and is instead representing himself and his own political opinions. How unfortunate, both for him and the rest of us, that this self-aggrandising and petulant little display coincided with part of the Irish support again saw fit to make disgusting and disgraceful chants about the British monarch's death. Even if you don't like the monarchy, you show the minimum respect for her as a person and for her family. Unfortunately, a significant number of the Republican community seem to believe that they have some sort of moral license to be absolutely vile. Carsley would be better off managing Ireland, where he would presumably have no problem singing the national anthem, and we would be better off finding a manager who is proud to be British - I didn't particularly like it when Eriksson and Capello were appointed and, in any case, both appointments fell well short of expectations. However, I have a horrible feeling the FA will go with him, as he is the easiest option, despite being even less qualified for the position than Southgate. From now on, we should go with British managers (who are proud to be British) and coaching staff. If this makes us a poorer team (and it probably won't), then I have no issue with this.
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Post by baldrick on Sept 9, 2024 8:14:51 GMT
"Carsley made it all about him - like any third-rate performer, could have just mimed and then everybody would have been happy. Bring in Howe, give him some singing lessons, and start ditching the big names (including Kane and possibly Foden and/or Bellingham for starters) who fell well short when it mattered." Your inference is, with respect, that he can't sing. He was in fact making a political point very visibly. I was speaking with tongue firmly in cheek. He was also making a political point very badly. I don't care about him and I don't care about what he thinks about the British monarchy. I do care that he is supposed to be representing the country and is instead representing himself and his own political opinions. How unfortunate, both for him and the rest of us, that this self-aggrandising and petulant little display coincided with part of the Irish support again saw fit to make disgusting and disgraceful chants about the British monarch's death. Even if you don't like the monarchy, you show the minimum respect for her as a person and for her family. Unfortunately, a significant number of the Republican community seem to believe that they have some sort of moral license to be absolutely vile. Carsley would be better off managing Ireland, where he would presumably have no problem singing the national anthem, and we would be better off finding a manager who is proud to be British - I didn't particularly like it when Eriksson and Capello were appointed and, in any case, both appointments fell well short of expectations. However, I have a horrible feeling the FA will go with him, as he is the easiest option, despite being even less qualified for the position than Southgate. From now on, we should go with British managers (who are proud to be British) and coaching staff. If this makes us a poorer team (and it probably won't), then I have no issue with this. "where he would presumably have no problem singing the national anthem" Apparently not, he never sang the Irish anthem either. Not sure where you got the political aspect from, is that from another interview? www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c17gj5e1krdo
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Post by rideintothesun on Sept 9, 2024 8:16:44 GMT
Carsley wasn't making a political point, he has not sung the anthem when he was U21 manager. Why should he start now? Other managers haven't sung the anthem. He's also played for Ireland. It didn't take the Southgate boo boys long to start on the new manager.... Interesting that the Daily Mail had a pop at him as well. The paper's patriotic owner who lives in a mansion in Monaco, pays tax in France and identifies as French. The Mail is registered in Bermuda and pays no tax anywhere. Some people need to get perspective. Especially - we had a poor Euros reaching the final. Really, the football wasn't great but we were runners up. A lot better than some of our past results.... More to the point, why he should be representing the English team if he holds the country and its institutions in such apparent contempt? He made the whole thing about him, despite being a glorified caretaker manager. He evidently feels more Irish than British and so would be better off managing Ireland, and City's 3-goals-in-63 appearances carthorse, which would be more his level incidentally. Neither Eriksson nor Capello should have been appointed, and I don't support the appointment of non-British managers at all. It is the British national side. If we had faced Spain, France, Germany or any other half-decent side rather than Slovakia, we would have gone out in the second round. Our record against the top teams under Southgate showed this. We barely squeaked past the Swiss and just about beat perhaps the poorest Dutch side I have ever seen (even the Euro 96 side was better). As in WC 2018 and 2020 we got lucky and then lost against the first really top side. The football, for the most part, was utter cr*p.
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Post by rideintothesun on Sept 9, 2024 8:29:35 GMT
I was speaking with tongue firmly in cheek. He was also making a political point very badly. I don't care about him and I don't care about what he thinks about the British monarchy. I do care that he is supposed to be representing the country and is instead representing himself and his own political opinions. How unfortunate, both for him and the rest of us, that this self-aggrandising and petulant little display coincided with part of the Irish support again saw fit to make disgusting and disgraceful chants about the British monarch's death. Even if you don't like the monarchy, you show the minimum respect for her as a person and for her family. Unfortunately, a significant number of the Republican community seem to believe that they have some sort of moral license to be absolutely vile. Carsley would be better off managing Ireland, where he would presumably have no problem singing the national anthem, and we would be better off finding a manager who is proud to be British - I didn't particularly like it when Eriksson and Capello were appointed and, in any case, both appointments fell well short of expectations. However, I have a horrible feeling the FA will go with him, as he is the easiest option, despite being even less qualified for the position than Southgate. From now on, we should go with British managers (who are proud to be British) and coaching staff. If this makes us a poorer team (and it probably won't), then I have no issue with this. "where he would presumably have no problem singing the national anthem" Apparently not, he never sang the Irish anthem either. Not sure where you got the political aspect from, is that from another interview? www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c17gj5e1krdoHe probably didn't sing the Irish anthem because he didn't know it - one of the many members of 'England B'. Again, it is not about him and his personal preferences. He made everything about him. I cannot think of another English player or manager (obviously apart from Eriksson or Capello) who refused to sing the national anthem in such a visible and self-aggrandising way.
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bloogas
Joined: July 2016
Posts: 1,106
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Post by bloogas on Sept 9, 2024 8:33:32 GMT
Carsley wasn't making a political point, he has not sung the anthem when he was U21 manager. Why should he start now? Other managers haven't sung the anthem. He's also played for Ireland. It didn't take the Southgate boo boys long to start on the new manager.... Interesting that the Daily Mail had a pop at him as well. The paper's patriotic owner who lives in a mansion in Monaco, pays tax in France and identifies as French. The Mail is registered in Bermuda and pays no tax anywhere. Some people need to get perspective. Especially - we had a poor Euros reaching the final. Really, the football wasn't great but we were runners up. A lot better than some of our past results.... Ah, my apologies, I beg your pardon. I mistakenly perceived it as a political gesture. I'll fix my perspective.
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Post by rideintothesun on Sept 9, 2024 8:41:05 GMT
Carsley wasn't making a political point, he has not sung the anthem when he was U21 manager. Why should he start now? Other managers haven't sung the anthem. He's also played for Ireland. It didn't take the Southgate boo boys long to start on the new manager.... Interesting that the Daily Mail had a pop at him as well. The paper's patriotic owner who lives in a mansion in Monaco, pays tax in France and identifies as French. The Mail is registered in Bermuda and pays no tax anywhere. Some people need to get perspective. Especially - we had a poor Euros reaching the final. Really, the football wasn't great but we were runners up. A lot better than some of our past results.... Ah, my apologies, I beg your pardon. I mistakenly perceived it as a political gesture. I'll fix my perspective. You shouldn't. It overlooks the point that he should have sung it when he was U21 manager, and that the other managers weren't British. From what I can recall, all other British managers have done it. It isn't a case of 'boo boys'. Like anybody else, if he deserves to be criticised, then he should be criticised. If any player or manager did not sing, then I would have an issue. I don't care if you don't believe in God or the monarchy - it isn't about you, it is about being part of a collective and a collective moment. If far superior managers like Terry Venables, Graham Taylor and even Roy Hodgson can think about tactics and what they are having for dinner while singing at the same time, then so can he.
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bluetornados
Predictions League
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Posts: 14,758
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Post by bluetornados on Sept 9, 2024 8:43:23 GMT
From now on, we should go with British managers (who are proud to be British) and coaching staff. If this makes us a poorer team (and it probably won't), then I have no issue with this. Totally agree with this, it will be hard to find one though, Eddie Howe, Sean Dyche, Gary O'Neill & Kieran McKenna are the only English managers in the PL. And in the Championship, John Eustace, Liam Manning, Scott Parker, Mark Robins, Paul Warne, Michael Carrick, Neil Harris, Des Buckingham, Paul Heckingbottom, Wayne Rooney, John Mousinho, Chris Wilder, Steven Schumacher, Luke Williams and Tom Cleverley are the English managers there...
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Post by baldrick on Sept 9, 2024 8:52:04 GMT
"where he would presumably have no problem singing the national anthem" Apparently not, he never sang the Irish anthem either. Not sure where you got the political aspect from, is that from another interview? www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c17gj5e1krdoHe probably didn't sing the Irish anthem because he didn't know it - one of the many members of 'England B'. Again, it is not about him and his personal preferences. He made everything about him. I cannot think of another English player or manager (obviously apart from Eriksson or Capello) who refused to sing the national anthem in such a visible and self-aggrandising way. I don't recall every player but I definitely remember the likes of David Batty and Carlton Palmer not singing it. I suspect there have been several.
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Post by rideintothesun on Sept 9, 2024 8:53:45 GMT
From now on, we should go with British managers (who are proud to be British) and coaching staff. If this makes us a poorer team (and it probably won't), then I have no issue with this. Totally agree with this, it will be hard to find one though, Eddie Howe, Sean Dyche, Gary O'Neill & Kieran McKenna are the only English managers in the PL. And in the Championship, John Eustace, Liam Manning, Scott Parker, Mark Robins, Paul Warne, Michael Carrick, Neil Harris, Des Buckingham, Paul Heckingbottom, Wayne Rooney, John Mousinho, Chris Wilder, Steven Schumacher, Luke Williams and Tom Cleverley are the English managers there... Howe is the most obvious choice, although for me he isn't on the level of the likes of Hodgson or even Allardyce. McKenna is spoken of highly but for me he has to prove himself in the PL. Liam Manning would be hard to entice away from Trashton...the FA would have to stretch to throwing in a bacon bap, mars bar and coffee with sugar to get him to even consider the position. Setting aside his reluctance to vocalise, Carsley as manager isn't good enough...we really need to go back to producing top managers like Bobby Robson, Graham Taylor, Terry Venables, and John Ward (who was actually part of the England U21 set up)
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Post by rideintothesun on Sept 9, 2024 9:03:16 GMT
He probably didn't sing the Irish anthem because he didn't know it - one of the many members of 'England B'. Again, it is not about him and his personal preferences. He made everything about him. I cannot think of another English player or manager (obviously apart from Eriksson or Capello) who refused to sing the national anthem in such a visible and self-aggrandising way. I don't recall every player but I definitely remember the likes of David Batty and Carlton Palmer not singing it. I suspect there have been several. This surprised me because Taylor was quite old school. Very, very good manger who was absolutely mauled by the British press. Compare his treatment to the media darling Venables and reflect on how far greasing up football journalists used to get you... Also liked Palmer when he was DCM at Sheff Wed and then CB at Leeds. Contrary to the caricature, actually a very effective player. Not a fan of Batty. Bit of a crab.
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Post by baldrick on Sept 9, 2024 9:05:13 GMT
I don't recall every player but I definitely remember the likes of David Batty and Carlton Palmer not singing it. I suspect there have been several. This surprised me because Taylor was quite old school. Very, very good manger who was absolutely mauled by the British press. Compare his treatment to the media darling Venables and reflect on how far greasing up football journalists used to get you... Also liked Palmer when he was DCM at Sheff Wed and then CB at Leeds. Contrary to the caricature, actually a very effective player. Not a fan of Batty. Bit of a crab. Trent Alexander Arnold and Gary Neville didn't either. Apparently neither did a few others for other countries, such as Ozil for Germany as he was praying instead.
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Post by CabbagePatchBlues on Sept 9, 2024 11:31:31 GMT
Ah, my apologies, I beg your pardon. I mistakenly perceived it as a political gesture. I'll fix my perspective. You shouldn't. It overlooks the point that he should have sung it when he was U21 manager, and that the other managers weren't British. From what I can recall, all other British managers have done it. It isn't a case of 'boo boys'. Like anybody else, if he deserves to be criticised, then he should be criticised. If any player or manager did not sing, then I would have an issue. I don't care if you don't believe in God or the monarchy - it isn't about you, it is about being part of a collective and a collective moment. If far superior managers like Terry Venables, Graham Taylor and even Roy Hodgson can think about tactics and what they are having for dinner while singing at the same time, then so can he. Like shut up and do as you’re told kind of thing? That’s typical imperialist British thinking.
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
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Post by Cheshiregas on Sept 9, 2024 12:03:57 GMT
Carsley wasn't making a political point, he has not sung the anthem when he was U21 manager. Why should he start now? Other managers haven't sung the anthem. He's also played for Ireland. It didn't take the Southgate boo boys long to start on the new manager.... Interesting that the Daily Mail had a pop at him as well. The paper's patriotic owner who lives in a mansion in Monaco, pays tax in France and identifies as French. The Mail is registered in Bermuda and pays no tax anywhere. Some people need to get perspective. Especially - we had a poor Euros reaching the final. Really, the football wasn't great but we were runners up. A lot better than some of our past results.... More to the point, why he should be representing the English team if he holds the country and its institutions in such apparent contempt? He made the whole thing about him, despite being a glorified caretaker manager. He evidently feels more Irish than British and so would be better off managing Ireland, and City's 3-goals-in-63 appearances carthorse, which would be more his level incidentally. Neither Eriksson nor Capello should have been appointed, and I don't support the appointment of non-British managers at all. It is the British national side. If we had faced Spain, France, Germany or any other half-decent side rather than Slovakia, we would have gone out in the second round. Our record against the top teams under Southgate showed this. We barely squeaked past the Swiss and just about beat perhaps the poorest Dutch side I have ever seen (even the Euro 96 side was better). As in WC 2018 and 2020 we got lucky and then lost against the first really top side. The football, for the most part, was utter cr*p. He doesn't hold them in contempt. He's been employed as a football manager due to his high success rate, not as a cabaret singer. You obviously don't like foreign managers. Perhaps they should be cleared out of English football altogether. Didn't your favourite English manager get the job? Can I remind you that the so called half-decent sides went out before us and we went through. You remind me of West Ham fans who wanted rid of Sam Allardyce because he didn't play the West Ham way [got to their highest spot for years] and Stoke fans who wanted rid of Pulis as he didn't play exciting enough football [got them to the Prem - look where they are now] And for what it is worth some of the 1966 football wasn't brilliant.
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shakes
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 138
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Post by shakes on Sept 9, 2024 12:06:55 GMT
You shouldn't. It overlooks the point that he should have sung it when he was U21 manager, and that the other managers weren't British. From what I can recall, all other British managers have done it. It isn't a case of 'boo boys'. Like anybody else, if he deserves to be criticised, then he should be criticised. If any player or manager did not sing, then I would have an issue. I don't care if you don't believe in God or the monarchy - it isn't about you, it is about being part of a collective and a collective moment. If far superior managers like Terry Venables, Graham Taylor and even Roy Hodgson can think about tactics and what they are having for dinner while singing at the same time, then so can he. Like shut up and do as you’re told kind of thing? That’s typical imperialist British thinking. If you don’t believe in either religion or the monarchy then the anthem doesn’t really resonate. In fact Christian monarchists must be quite the minority in today’s Britain. Carsley should be applauded for his stance.
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
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Posts: 2,644
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Post by Cheshiregas on Sept 9, 2024 12:08:00 GMT
You shouldn't. It overlooks the point that he should have sung it when he was U21 manager, and that the other managers weren't British. From what I can recall, all other British managers have done it. It isn't a case of 'boo boys'. Like anybody else, if he deserves to be criticised, then he should be criticised. If any player or manager did not sing, then I would have an issue. I don't care if you don't believe in God or the monarchy - it isn't about you, it is about being part of a collective and a collective moment. If far superior managers like Terry Venables, Graham Taylor and even Roy Hodgson can think about tactics and what they are having for dinner while singing at the same time, then so can he. Like shut up and do as you’re told kind of thing? That’s typical imperialist British thinking. Indeed CPB, I thought we lived in a free country but obviously not. Some of the players don't sing it either because they can't sing. But I guess they should do as they are told, don't want to upset Nige and Tommy!
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