oldie
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Post by oldie on Jun 26, 2024 1:02:45 GMT
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Post by baselswh on Jun 26, 2024 5:47:06 GMT
Britons can't get Doctor, Hospital and Dental treatment. Too many illegal and illegal immigrants have made a huge decrease to our standard of living.
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Post by baselswh on Jun 26, 2024 6:43:37 GMT
Suella Braverman still has 24/7 security.
Too many Islamist and Left wing thugs in our country.
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bluetornados
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Post by bluetornados on Jun 26, 2024 15:48:35 GMT
Reform launches Scottish manifesto - urging drop to net zero targets..ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/800/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2024/6/26/d9c834f8-20de-4e83-b3ab-e30baac207c5.jpgReform UK’s chairman Richard Tice has made clear his support for the oil and gas industry. At the Scottish launch of the party’s manifesto this afternoon, he says Scotland is the only nation with such energy “treasure” that thinks it's a good idea not to use it. Tice says using renewable energy would make the country poorer and less energy secure. He describes that as “negligence of the most extraordinary kind” and says the move to net zero is the “greatest act of financial negligence ever imposed on a nation by its leaders”. As well as supporting oil and gas extraction, Reform will drop net-zero targets and scrap subsidies for renewables. The party is also pledging to end all non-essential migration. Tice says his party will focus on growth.
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Jun 26, 2024 16:31:24 GMT
Reform launches Scottish manifesto - urging drop to net zero targets..ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/800/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2024/6/26/d9c834f8-20de-4e83-b3ab-e30baac207c5.jpgReform UK’s chairman Richard Tice has made clear his support for the oil and gas industry. At the Scottish launch of the party’s manifesto this afternoon, he says Scotland is the only nation with such energy “treasure” that thinks it's a good idea not to use it. Tice says using renewable energy would make the country poorer and less energy secure. He describes that as “negligence of the most extraordinary kind” and says the move to net zero is the “greatest act of financial negligence ever imposed on a nation by its leaders”. As well as supporting oil and gas extraction, Reform will drop net-zero targets and scrap subsidies for renewables. The party is also pledging to end all non-essential migration. Tice says his party will focus on growth. I read that. Just more regressive policies and unfunded promises. But it's immigration in reality,just immigration.
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Post by Nobbygas on Jun 26, 2024 17:02:40 GMT
What are their 'regressive policies"?
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
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Post by oldie on Jun 26, 2024 19:04:26 GMT
What are their 'regressive policies"? There was a very good article written in The Spectator back in January. I was hoping to transcribe some of the salient points made which would back up my point, but my account with them won't let me, perhaps because I am in the States at the moment, I don't know. But here is the link www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-reform-party-is-too-wedded-to-the-free-market/Opening paragraph "What exactly does the Reform party stand for? Helpfully, its leader Richard Tice gave a press conference on Wednesday at which he sketched out some of his party’s principles and policies. The millionaire businessman described the Tories and Labour as ‘two sides of the same socialist coin’, citing in evidence ‘record high taxes’, ‘record high wasteful government spending’, ‘record nanny state regulations’, and ‘mass, uncontrolled immigration on a scale this country has never seen before" As the headline of that article suggests those points, other than migration, could have been written in 1979. Here is the thing. I don't disagree that the issues raised need to be addressed, it's the misinformation and very opaque policy solutions to address them that I object to. Let's take them individually in the order that Tice raised them. 1. Record High Taxes. No dispute, that is a matter of fact. But, we have very high levels of current account borrowing and national debt to service. If we are to radically cut taxation then we need to radically cut government spending. It's a bona Friday policy to do exactly that, but Reform are not spelling that out. Note: We have been here before with this stuff haven't we. With Thatcher and Reagan. They are never honest, although Thatcher was more brutal than Reagan. I was living in the States for the whole of Reagan's tenure. He was brilliantly entertaining but the fiscal policies were a disaster He came to power promising to cut taxes and slash spending. It was here I read the term to "hypothecate" spending for the first time. I thought it was a great idea. But, Reagan didn't do it. He cut taxes but kept spending. The national debt spiralled, inflation became embedded at between 10 to 4% over his two terms. But the biggest impact was the growth of inequality. To quote "Reaganomics had positives, such as lowering inflation and unemployment rates, and boosting the stock market, but it also increased the federal deficit, income inequality, and led to jobs with lower wages and a shift in manufacturing oveseas" That legacy of inequality has impacted America (and the UK) for decades now, I would argue leading to Trump, Brexit and Reform. Voters looking for someone or something to blame, but missing the target. Reform are aping this with some dewy eyed mysticism. It failed before, to promote it again is regressive. 2. "Wasteful Spending/Nanny State Regulations" As above. I am sure there is grotesque waste in Government spending, but name it. It's easy to say. Nanny State is just a tired old trope, mostly spouted by people who do not like a regulatory framework. We have done this for years, but nothing ever happens. It is a diversion and regressive to keep on about it again unless it is spelt out 3. Immigration What this is all about in reality. Legal migration into this country is far to high. But instead of whistling to the racist tendancies of many in our society why not ask why? Why, after cancelling free movement, is the government issuing work visas to over 1.2 million overseas applicants a year? If our economy doesn't need them? Why. Is employment levels in the UK high? Yes it is. Why do we have over 7 Million people economically inactive? Just saying we will cut net migration to zero answers none of those questions And then Farage adds the horrible language of " speaking in different languages", of "not understanding our culture" Pure dog whistling. To try and return the UK to an insular, inward looking society, both economically and socially is regressive.
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bluetornados
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Post by bluetornados on Jun 26, 2024 21:18:38 GMT
ichef.bbci.co.uk/ace/standard/1024/cpsprodpb/5569/live/35669700-33f3-11ef-bdc5-41d7421c2adf.jpgRishi Sunak and Sir Keir Starmer clash repeatedly on their plans for tax and ways of controlling borders while facing audience questions in a BBC debate They were challenged about integrity in politics, the cost of living and women-only spaces Sunak used his 30-second closing statement to reiterate his controversial £2,000 tax claim, prompting Keir Starmer to shout “that is a lie” While they exchanged barbs over the alleged betting scandal, noises and shouts were heard in the background from protests nearby The debate, hosted by Mishal Husain, was one of the last major set-piece moments before polling day ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/800/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2024/6/26/0bfb296a-df29-4b1f-826e-9a73775a1b05.pngWhat’s happened to small boat numbers?..By Anthony Reuben, BBC Verify A little earlier, Keir Starmer said: "Since Rishi Sunak became prime minister 50,000 people have come across by small boats." He is right about that. The Home Office publishes figures, external – going back to 2018 - for people detected crossing the English Channel in small boats. The exact number detected since Rishi Sunak became prime minister on 25 October 2022 is 50,108. The highest figure recorded in a single year was in 2022, when 45,755 arrived this way. Last year, 29,437 people were detected arriving in small boats – down a third on the year before. In the last 12 calendar months, 31,204 people have been detected crossing, which is down 30% on the previous 12 months. However, so far this year 13,045 have been detected, which is up about 16% from the same period last year and is a record. ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/800/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2024/6/26/b70562de-42ba-43a5-b27e-ad94c9b3ea3a.jpgichef.bbci.co.uk/news/800/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2024/6/26/7c3d18a0-b95e-482c-b257-b82763c835d7.jpg"I understand why you're frustrated with our party, with me," Sunak says. He says this is not a byelection - it's a choice with profound consequences. He makes the claim that under Labour people would pay £2,000 more in tax and says Starmer isn't being straight about his polices. (BBC Verify has previously looked into that figure and found it risks misleading people.) He ends by urging voters not to vote for any other party.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
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Post by oldie on Jun 27, 2024 1:04:46 GMT
Rishi Sunak and Sir Keir Starmer clash repeatedly on their plans for tax and ways of controlling borders while facing audience questions in a BBC debate They were challenged about integrity in politics, the cost of living and women-only spaces Sunak used his 30-second closing statement to reiterate his controversial £2,000 tax claim, prompting Keir Starmer to shout “that is a lie” While they exchanged barbs over the alleged betting scandal, noises and shouts were heard in the background from protests nearby The debate, hosted by Mishal Husain, was one of the last major set-piece moments before polling day What’s happened to small boat numbers?..By Anthony Reuben, BBC Verify A little earlier, Keir Starmer said: "Since Rishi Sunak became prime minister 50,000 people have come across by small boats." He is right about that. The Home Office publishes figures, external – going back to 2018 - for people detected crossing the English Channel in small boats. The exact number detected since Rishi Sunak became prime minister on 25 October 2022 is 50,108. The highest figure recorded in a single year was in 2022, when 45,755 arrived this way. Last year, 29,437 people were detected arriving in small boats – down a third on the year before. In the last 12 calendar months, 31,204 people have been detected crossing, which is down 30% on the previous 12 months. However, so far this year 13,045 have been detected, which is up about 16% from the same period last year and is a record. "I understand why you're frustrated with our party, with me," Sunak says. He says this is not a byelection - it's a choice with profound consequences. He makes the claim that under Labour people would pay £2,000 more in tax and says Starmer isn't being straight about his polices. (BBC Verify has previously looked into that figure and found it risks misleading people.) He ends by urging voters not to vote for any other party. I watched it over here in the States. I found it profoundly dispiriting. Sunak thought by shouting Starmer down, like a bully in a playground he could win a debate. He couldn't and didn't. But he did expose Starmer as being a bit slow in response and perhaps a bit to nice. But hey, after the bull**it bravado of the last 14 years, particularly the last 8, perhaps that's what we need. In reality Sunak and Farage are little runts, whose suits and jackets don't fit, who shout loud and you just want to get in their faces and challenge them. Which is why people like me should steer a wide berth from party politics. The best question of the night was from the elderly gentleman who asked "are you two the best we can do" Excellent question
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bluetornados
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Post by bluetornados on Jun 27, 2024 5:27:45 GMT
Adding to the post above: The next question comes from Robert.Sunak did a "fair job" as chancellor, he says, but has been a "pretty mediocre prime minister". He adds that he believes Starmer is being "pulled" by senior Labour figures. "Are you two really the best we've got to be the next prime minister of our great country?" he asks - more applause from the audience. ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/800/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2024/6/26/9ceaa5ce-147c-4b02-a859-45eacdfa9c40.jpgSunak acknowledges Robert's frustrations, but he says he's been prime minister for 18 months. He says under him inflation has reduced, wages have risen faster than prices, and the UK has had economic stability. Sunak reiterates that under the Tories, the UK will get lower taxes, triple lock pension protection, secure borders, and a sensible approach to net zero. ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/800/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2024/6/26/9d13b7be-35ce-4f8f-8e38-f69fbbb32f17.jpgStarmer says he's worked with police in Northern Ireland as part of work on the Good Friday Agreement, adding that he also ran the Crown Prosecution Service for five years - the third time he's brought this up this evening. "We'll always say country first, party second," he says. He says the country has had "14 pretty awful years" and this is the opportunity to turn the page. ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/785/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2024/6/26/ec96ed67-42e9-4429-ae4a-4fa64fa98090.pngHusain returns to Robert's question - asking the leaders if they recognise there is no great enthusiasm for either of them on the campaign trail. Sunak responds by saying Labour does not have a plan for change. But Starmer says after 14 years of Conservative rule "people feel the hope has been beaten out of them".
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Post by baselswh on Jun 27, 2024 5:32:11 GMT
Rishi Sunak and Sir Keir Starmer clash repeatedly on their plans for tax and ways of controlling borders while facing audience questions in a BBC debate They were challenged about integrity in politics, the cost of living and women-only spaces Sunak used his 30-second closing statement to reiterate his controversial £2,000 tax claim, prompting Keir Starmer to shout “that is a lie” While they exchanged barbs over the alleged betting scandal, noises and shouts were heard in the background from protests nearby The debate, hosted by Mishal Husain, was one of the last major set-piece moments before polling day What’s happened to small boat numbers?..By Anthony Reuben, BBC Verify A little earlier, Keir Starmer said: "Since Rishi Sunak became prime minister 50,000 people have come across by small boats." He is right about that. The Home Office publishes figures, external – going back to 2018 - for people detected crossing the English Channel in small boats. The exact number detected since Rishi Sunak became prime minister on 25 October 2022 is 50,108. The highest figure recorded in a single year was in 2022, when 45,755 arrived this way. Last year, 29,437 people were detected arriving in small boats – down a third on the year before. In the last 12 calendar months, 31,204 people have been detected crossing, which is down 30% on the previous 12 months. However, so far this year 13,045 have been detected, which is up about 16% from the same period last year and is a record. "I understand why you're frustrated with our party, with me," Sunak says. He says this is not a byelection - it's a choice with profound consequences. He makes the claim that under Labour people would pay £2,000 more in tax and says Starmer isn't being straight about his polices. (BBC Verify has previously looked into that figure and found it risks misleading people.) He ends by urging voters not to vote for any other party. I watched it over here in the States. I found it profoundly dispiriting. Sunak thought by shouting Starmer down, like a bully in a playground he could win a debate. He couldn't and didn't. But he did expose Starmer as being a bit slow in response and perhaps a bit to nice. But hey, after the bull**it bravado of the last 14 years, particularly the last 8, perhaps that's what we need. In reality Sunak and Farage are little runts, whose suits and jackets don't fit, who shout loud and you just want to get in their faces and challenge them. Which is why people like me should steer a wide berth from party politics. The best question of the night was from the elderly gentleman who asked "are you two the best we can do" Excellent question It's quite ironic that you prefer a party called 'Democrat' in the US. We all witnessed what you thought of democracy after Remain lost the Brexit referendum. Starmer, running after Islam. Off goes his Poppy!
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Jun 27, 2024 6:51:02 GMT
Rishi Sunak and Sir Keir Starmer clash repeatedly on their plans for tax and ways of controlling borders while facing audience questions in a BBC debate They were challenged about integrity in politics, the cost of living and women-only spaces Sunak used his 30-second closing statement to reiterate his controversial £2,000 tax claim, prompting Keir Starmer to shout “that is a lie” While they exchanged barbs over the alleged betting scandal, noises and shouts were heard in the background from protests nearby The debate, hosted by Mishal Husain, was one of the last major set-piece moments before polling day What’s happened to small boat numbers?..By Anthony Reuben, BBC Verify A little earlier, Keir Starmer said: "Since Rishi Sunak became prime minister 50,000 people have come across by small boats." He is right about that. The Home Office publishes figures, external – going back to 2018 - for people detected crossing the English Channel in small boats. The exact number detected since Rishi Sunak became prime minister on 25 October 2022 is 50,108. The highest figure recorded in a single year was in 2022, when 45,755 arrived this way. Last year, 29,437 people were detected arriving in small boats – down a third on the year before. In the last 12 calendar months, 31,204 people have been detected crossing, which is down 30% on the previous 12 months. However, so far this year 13,045 have been detected, which is up about 16% from the same period last year and is a record. "I understand why you're frustrated with our party, with me," Sunak says. He says this is not a byelection - it's a choice with profound consequences. He makes the claim that under Labour people would pay £2,000 more in tax and says Starmer isn't being straight about his polices. (BBC Verify has previously looked into that figure and found it risks misleading people.) He ends by urging voters not to vote for any other party. I watched it over here in the States. I found it profoundly dispiriting. Sunak thought by shouting Starmer down, like a bully in a playground he could win a debate. He couldn't and didn't. But he did expose Starmer as being a bit slow in response and perhaps a bit to nice. But hey, after the bull**it bravado of the last 14 years, particularly the last 8, perhaps that's what we need. In reality Sunak and Farage are little runts, whose suits and jackets don't fit, who shout loud and you just want to get in their faces and challenge them. Which is why people like me should steer a wide berth from party politics.The best question of the night was from the elderly gentleman who asked "are you two the best we can do"Excellent question Well it's taken a number of years, but finally finally talks some sense. Just the lines in bold.
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Post by Nobbygas on Jun 27, 2024 7:47:27 GMT
What are their 'regressive policies"? There was a very good article written in The Spectator back in January. I was hoping to transcribe some of the salient points made which would back up my point, but my account with them won't let me, perhaps because I am in the States at the moment, I don't know. But here is the link www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-reform-party-is-too-wedded-to-the-free-market/Opening paragraph "What exactly does the Reform party stand for? Helpfully, its leader Richard Tice gave a press conference on Wednesday at which he sketched out some of his party’s principles and policies. The millionaire businessman described the Tories and Labour as ‘two sides of the same socialist coin’, citing in evidence ‘record high taxes’, ‘record high wasteful government spending’, ‘record nanny state regulations’, and ‘mass, uncontrolled immigration on a scale this country has never seen before" As the headline of that article suggests those points, other than migration, could have been written in 1979. Here is the thing. I don't disagree that the issues raised need to be addressed, it's the misinformation and very opaque policy solutions to address them that I object to. Let's take them individually in the order that Tice raised them. 1. Record High Taxes. No dispute, that is a matter of fact. But, we have very high levels of current account borrowing and national debt to service. If we are to radically cut taxation then we need to radically cut government spending. It's a bona Friday policy to do exactly that, but Reform are not spelling that out. Note: We have been here before with this stuff haven't we. With Thatcher and Reagan. They are never honest, although Thatcher was more brutal than Reagan. I was living in the States for the whole of Reagan's tenure. He was brilliantly entertaining but the fiscal policies were a disaster He came to power promising to cut taxes and slash spending. It was here I read the term to "hypothecate" spending for the first time. I thought it was a great idea. But, Reagan didn't do it. He cut taxes but kept spending. The national debt spiralled, inflation became embedded at between 10 to 4% over his two terms. But the biggest impact was the growth of inequality. To quote "Reaganomics had positives, such as lowering inflation and unemployment rates, and boosting the stock market, but it also increased the federal deficit, income inequality, and led to jobs with lower wages and a shift in manufacturing oveseas" That legacy of inequality has impacted America (and the UK) for decades now, I would argue leading to Trump, Brexit and Reform. Voters looking for someone or something to blame, but missing the target. Reform are aping this with some dewy eyed mysticism. It failed before, to promote it again is regressive. 2. "Wasteful Spending/Nanny State Regulations" As above. I am sure there is grotesque waste in Government spending, but name it. It's easy to say. Nanny State is just a tired old trope, mostly spouted by people who do not like a regulatory framework. We have done this for years, but nothing ever happens. It is a diversion and regressive to keep on about it again unless it is spelt out 3. Immigration What this is all about in reality. Legal migration into this country is far to high. But instead of whistling to the racist tendancies of many in our society why not ask why? Why, after cancelling free movement, is the government issuing work visas to over 1.2 million overseas applicants a year? If our economy doesn't need them? Why. Is employment levels in the UK high? Yes it is. Why do we have over 7 Million people economically inactive? Just saying we will cut net migration to zero answers none of those questions And then Farage adds the horrible language of " speaking in different languages", of "not understanding our culture" Pure dog whistling. To try and return the UK to an insular, inward looking society, both economically and socially is regressive. "2. "Wasteful Spending/Nanny State Regulations"
As above. I am sure there is grotesque waste in Government spending, but name it. It's easy to say. Nanny State is just a tired old trope, mostly spouted by people who do not like a regulatory framework.
We have done this for years, but nothing ever happens. It is a diversion and regressive to keep on about it again unless it is spelt out" - So basically you are saying that 'yes' there is grotesque waste in government spending, but it's always been that way so why even bother to talk about reducing it ! Is that really your argument here? "3. Immigration
What this is all about in reality. Legal migration into this country is far to high. But instead of whistling to the racist tendancies of many in our society why not ask why?
Why, after cancelling free movement, is the government issuing work visas to over 1.2 million overseas applicants a year? If our economy doesn't need them? Why. Is employment levels in the UK high? Yes it is.
Why do we have over 7 Million people economically inactive?" - Too many questions here. Yes, legal migration is an issue, but this doesn't even mention illegal migration which is the real issue that people are worried about. As for the 7 million 'inactive' people, well, there are a lot of ideas floating about that will help reduce that. The next question of course is just what are Labour's answers to these issues. The answer appears to be 'they haven't got a clue what to do'. Next, is it racist to question the effect that immigration is having on the NHS, schools, housing etc etc? By attemping to play the race card all you are doing is attempting to close down the debate. Labour are correct. This country does indeed need change, but both of the usual suspects will not and cannot bring about those changes. Same old parties, same old policies, both parties trying to introduce more tax rises without you knowing it instead of working out how they reduce government waste. It's easier, lazier and immoral to take more money from the taxpayer rather than work to reduce government expenditure with the prime example being the NHS. All we ever hear is that it needs more money. Government spending on health has gone from 7% of the national budget to 11% in just eight years, yet the NHS is still 'on it's knees' apparently. More money won't fix it, and we all know that. This also applies to higher taxation to so say provide more funds for 'services'. The UK does need change.
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Post by baselswh on Jun 27, 2024 8:09:28 GMT
Farage and Reform may of won a few votes from the Sunak Starmer debate.
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 1,672
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Post by trymer on Jun 27, 2024 10:23:42 GMT
I watched it over here in the States. I found it profoundly dispiriting. Sunak thought by shouting Starmer down, like a bully in a playground he could win a debate. He couldn't and didn't. But he did expose Starmer as being a bit slow in response and perhaps a bit to nice. But hey, after the bull**it bravado of the last 14 years, particularly the last 8, perhaps that's what we need. In reality Sunak and Farage are little runts, whose suits and jackets don't fit, who shout loud and you just want to get in their faces and challenge them. Which is why people like me should steer a wide berth from party politics.The best question of the night was from the elderly gentleman who asked "are you two the best we can do"Excellent question Well it's taken a number of years, but finally finally talks some sense. Just the lines in bold. Chimps,typewriters,works of Shakespeare then Epping ? The telling comment was the one about Farage who wasnt even in the debate !!!!!! they are obsessed with Farage because they are frightened of how he might change their cosy little World of politics ....forever. Notice too that the buzzwords in the name calling have changed ? they have finally realised that they have called literally everyone they dont like 'nazis' or 'fascists' (like Rik in the Young ones used to) so now those words have become meaningless..now its 'dog whistle' and 'populist' the Guardian,Independent etc are repeating these words endlessly and as their readers are like sheep they have started bleating the words too.
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 1,672
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Post by trymer on Jun 27, 2024 10:29:21 GMT
There was a very good article written in The Spectator back in January. I was hoping to transcribe some of the salient points made which would back up my point, but my account with them won't let me, perhaps because I am in the States at the moment, I don't know. But here is the link www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-reform-party-is-too-wedded-to-the-free-market/Opening paragraph "What exactly does the Reform party stand for? Helpfully, its leader Richard Tice gave a press conference on Wednesday at which he sketched out some of his party’s principles and policies. The millionaire businessman described the Tories and Labour as ‘two sides of the same socialist coin’, citing in evidence ‘record high taxes’, ‘record high wasteful government spending’, ‘record nanny state regulations’, and ‘mass, uncontrolled immigration on a scale this country has never seen before" As the headline of that article suggests those points, other than migration, could have been written in 1979. Here is the thing. I don't disagree that the issues raised need to be addressed, it's the misinformation and very opaque policy solutions to address them that I object to. Let's take them individually in the order that Tice raised them. 1. Record High Taxes. No dispute, that is a matter of fact. But, we have very high levels of current account borrowing and national debt to service. If we are to radically cut taxation then we need to radically cut government spending. It's a bona Friday policy to do exactly that, but Reform are not spelling that out. Note: We have been here before with this stuff haven't we. With Thatcher and Reagan. They are never honest, although Thatcher was more brutal than Reagan. I was living in the States for the whole of Reagan's tenure. He was brilliantly entertaining but the fiscal policies were a disaster He came to power promising to cut taxes and slash spending. It was here I read the term to "hypothecate" spending for the first time. I thought it was a great idea. But, Reagan didn't do it. He cut taxes but kept spending. The national debt spiralled, inflation became embedded at between 10 to 4% over his two terms. But the biggest impact was the growth of inequality. To quote "Reaganomics had positives, such as lowering inflation and unemployment rates, and boosting the stock market, but it also increased the federal deficit, income inequality, and led to jobs with lower wages and a shift in manufacturing oveseas" That legacy of inequality has impacted America (and the UK) for decades now, I would argue leading to Trump, Brexit and Reform. Voters looking for someone or something to blame, but missing the target. Reform are aping this with some dewy eyed mysticism. It failed before, to promote it again is regressive. 2. "Wasteful Spending/Nanny State Regulations" As above. I am sure there is grotesque waste in Government spending, but name it. It's easy to say. Nanny State is just a tired old trope, mostly spouted by people who do not like a regulatory framework. We have done this for years, but nothing ever happens. It is a diversion and regressive to keep on about it again unless it is spelt out 3. Immigration What this is all about in reality. Legal migration into this country is far to high. But instead of whistling to the racist tendancies of many in our society why not ask why? Why, after cancelling free movement, is the government issuing work visas to over 1.2 million overseas applicants a year? If our economy doesn't need them? Why. Is employment levels in the UK high? Yes it is. Why do we have over 7 Million people economically inactive? Just saying we will cut net migration to zero answers none of those questions And then Farage adds the horrible language of " speaking in different languages", of "not understanding our culture" Pure dog whistling. To try and return the UK to an insular, inward looking society, both economically and socially is regressive. "2. "Wasteful Spending/Nanny State Regulations"
As above. I am sure there is grotesque waste in Government spending, but name it. It's easy to say. Nanny State is just a tired old trope, mostly spouted by people who do not like a regulatory framework.
We have done this for years, but nothing ever happens. It is a diversion and regressive to keep on about it again unless it is spelt out" - So basically you are saying that 'yes' there is grotesque waste in government spending, but it's always been that way so why even bother to talk about reducing it ! Is that really your argument here? "3. Immigration
What this is all about in reality. Legal migration into this country is far to high. But instead of whistling to the racist tendancies of many in our society why not ask why?
Why, after cancelling free movement, is the government issuing work visas to over 1.2 million overseas applicants a year? If our economy doesn't need them? Why. Is employment levels in the UK high? Yes it is.
Why do we have over 7 Million people economically inactive?" - Too many questions here. Yes, legal migration is an issue, but this doesn't even mention illegal migration which is the real issue that people are worried about. As for the 7 million 'inactive' people, well, there are a lot of ideas floating about that will help reduce that. The next question of course is just what are Labour's answers to these issues. The answer appears to be 'they haven't got a clue what to do'. Next, is it racist to question the effect that immigration is having on the NHS, schools, housing etc etc? By attemping to play the race card all you are doing is attempting to close down the debate. Labour are correct. This country does indeed need change, but both of the usual suspects will not and cannot bring about those changes. Same old parties, same old policies, both parties trying to introduce more tax rises without you knowing it instead of working out how they reduce government waste. It's easier, lazier and immoral to take more money from the taxpayer rather than work to reduce government expenditure with the prime example being the NHS. All we ever hear is that it needs more money. Government spending on health has gone from 7% of the national budget to 11% in just eight years, yet the NHS is still 'on it's knees' apparently. More money won't fix it, and we all know that. This also applies to higher taxation to so say provide more funds for 'services'. The UK does need change. Nobby I came across a German word, 'verschlimmbesserung' apparently it means an improvement that makes things worse ?....for me that will be Starmer replacing Sunak. We all know that the Tories need to go but Labour will Raise taxes Bring in more immigrants...putting MORE pressure on NHS,housing,schools. Give an amnesty to legal and illegal immigrants here already. Get caught up in endless ideological battles amongst themselves. So yes they will be a change but not for the better.
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 1,672
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Post by trymer on Jun 27, 2024 10:31:31 GMT
Farage and Reform may of won a few votes from the Sunak Starmer debate. The more people see and hear from Lib/Lab/Con the more they will look for an alternative,some will go Green but as you say some will go for Reform....
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 1,672
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Post by trymer on Jun 27, 2024 10:32:11 GMT
Be nice to see Farage in a debate with Sunak or Starmer.
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lostinspace
Vic Lambden
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 5,333
Member is Online
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Post by lostinspace on Jun 27, 2024 11:33:53 GMT
Be nice to see Farage in a debate with Sunak or Starmer. You know that will NOT happen...as they are both over aware of him and the ' panic' he is creating for both parties
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Post by baselswh on Jun 27, 2024 12:10:07 GMT
Kevin Craig ,Labour candidate for Central Suffolk and North Ipswich has been suspended after admitting to gambling on his own chances of success or failiure.
He bet he would lose.🙂
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