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Post by swissgas on Aug 31, 2023 21:48:26 GMT
For a compulsive gambler he's put himself in a great position because our owners are paying the stake money and the majority of Gasheads are relying on him to tell us what constitutes a "win". At the moment we are told the "win" is "the best squad we've had in years" but that could change dependent on football results and Barton's mood. If he was gambling in a calculated way there might be some justification for it but he is reckless and haphazard. The players with potential to develop like Loft, Gibbons, McCormick, Connolly, Taylor, Grant, Jones, Hoole and Gordon were given nice contracts but now they seem to be out in the cold. And in have come a group of expensive "loan fee" loanees together with the "ageing stars" here for their last pay packet. The message is "we are going for it" but has anyone told Hussain Al Saeed ? on the other hand, the coach would get to know a player so much better than match watching fans. Watching them in training, their professionalism, workrate. Also the coach would tell the player “I want to see this, this and this” and take a dim view of the player if they don’t see it over a course of time. I think he does everything by instinct rather than by calculation and his overriding instinct is that because he played in the Premier League he knows football better than most and can solve problems which others can't. But his track record as a manager shows that he actually can't solve the variety of problems which he's attempted to tackle with examples at Rovers being injuries (Rossiter), temperament (McCormick) and basic football ability (Loft). He's also shown impatience at being unable to improve players to an acceptable level and this is why Connolly, Jones, J Ward, Hoole and Gordon are being sidelined. His instinct now tells him the answer is to bring in older experienced players like Hunt, Friend and Woods who won't need much coaching to perform at the level he wants and young players like Crama, Bogarde & Hall who just need to perform to the high level they have already been coached and to follow his instructions. The two wildcards are Thomas & Brown who look to be working out early season but both have obvious temperament issues which need to be watched and kept under control. This, I think, is his football strategy and it may be good enough to get Rovers into the play off's as it did with Fleetwood but it's built on sand and from the club's point of view there is no future with it as Fleetwood found out to their cost. Rovers are paying a huge price for this gamble and in the full knowledge of what happened when JB tried it before. I wonder whether anyone has totted up the costs of all the contracts which have been given out plus the interest on the Nationwide loan and put this together with the loss of revenue due to reduced capacity for an indefinite period ? There are the makings of a perfect storm brewing and one questions how deep the due diligence went in February and whether all the liabilities, including liabilities incurred since then, have been taken into account by the new owners. But we won't know that until they start to talk to us. |
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on Aug 31, 2023 23:34:35 GMT
The insane thing about this is that some if not all of those younger players have ability and potential and if coached and grown in the right way would become more consistent with experience and time on the pitch. Either Barton or someone in his team does have an eye for a good player.
I’m thinking of the likes of Hoole, Evans, Macca, Ryan Jones, Gordon, Taylor and Connolly all of whom I would have in the matchday squad as a minimum and most in the starting line up.
Barton seems however to either fall out with players or suddenly change his mind and think they are not good enough and then they are sidelined and/or shipped out of the club. Good players don’t suddenly become bad ones overnight especially not in the volume that Barton gets through them. Add in good solid pros like Marquis, Belshaw and Sinclair who play themselves into form and are then dropped or not picked and it is no wonder we can’t establish any rhythm. Nothing against the latest batch of signings but none of them particularly excite me. They may or may not be good solid pros and every successful team usually has a blend of experience and promise but I’d prefer that we developed our own talented players and accept that success will come a bit slower than rely on journeymen and improving players we are unlikely to sign
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on Aug 31, 2023 23:57:34 GMT
James Connolly on loan to Morecambe for the season We paid a fee to Cardiff for James, he played 31 times for us in League 1 last season, he's 22 in November and now he's going back to League 2. JB must think James is not good enough for a promotion chasing League 1 side and he doesn't have time to keep trying to improve him to the desired playing level so James will have to go out on loan. All very strange when Hussain Al Saeed said a few weeks ago that his aim was to not give JB more money for the football budget but to develop the club slowly and sustainably with no "rush" to get promotion. I’m certain there’s a good player in there - we saw it season before last especially when paired with Taylor. Prone to the odd error but chiefly down to age and experience and I’d expect the frequency of these to drop as the other two things increase. I’d persevere if it were my call. Perhaps as part of a back 3 with Taylor and Wilson and as cover for these two if we play two out snd out CHs. Crama has probably done for him this season though and the signing of Hunt pushes him further down the pecking order so a loan seems sensible to me in the circumstances I suspect Gibbons will be the next to be offloaded. Not totally convinced by what I’ve seen there though I expect Port Vale would jump at the chance to have him back |
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on Sept 1, 2023 0:08:52 GMT
We paid a fee to Cardiff for James, he played 31 times for us in League 1 last season, he's 22 in November and now he's going back to League 2. JB must think James is not good enough for a promotion chasing League 1 side and he doesn't have time to keep trying to improve him to the desired playing level so James will have to go out on loan. All very strange when Hussain Al Saeed said a few weeks ago that his aim was to not give JB more money for the football budget but to develop the club slowly and sustainably with no "rush" to get promotion. Surprised you have not pointed out Barton great at developing players. Prepared to improve youngster from Brentford over our own player. JB has paid good money for Loft Macca Connolly Taylor None featuring last weekend. Where's Basel with his spin. I’m yet to see much evidence that Barton is good at developing players. On the plus side does like to give promising players an opportunity but after an initial positive impact they mostly seem to fade and/or go backwards. Examples being Macca, Beefy, Aaza, Evans, Hoole, Jedward, etc etc. Is there an example of one of our own youngsters that Barton has improved and who has consistently stayed the course? |
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Post by swissgas on Sept 1, 2023 0:32:04 GMT
We paid a fee to Cardiff for James, he played 31 times for us in League 1 last season, he's 22 in November and now he's going back to League 2. JB must think James is not good enough for a promotion chasing League 1 side and he doesn't have time to keep trying to improve him to the desired playing level so James will have to go out on loan. All very strange when Hussain Al Saeed said a few weeks ago that his aim was to not give JB more money for the football budget but to develop the club slowly and sustainably with no "rush" to get promotion. I’m certain there’s a good player in there - we saw it season before last especially when paired with Taylor. Prone to the odd error but chiefly down to age and experience and I’d expect the frequency of these to drop as the other two things increase. I’d persevere if it were my call. Perhaps as part of a back 3 with Taylor and Wilson and as cover for these two if we play two out snd out CHs. Crama has probably done for him this season though and the signing of Hunt pushes him further down the pecking order so a loan seems sensible to me in the circumstances I suspect Gibbons will be the next to be offloaded. Not totally convinced by what I’ve seen there though I expect Port Vale would jump at the chance to have him back He was given a three year contract in June 2022 so Rovers are responsible for his wages for another two years come what may and I doubt whether a club like Morecambe will be willing or able to pay a very high percentage. So this is going to turn into yet another cash write off caused by the lack of financial discipline at the club and money continues to be spent as if there is no tomorrow. We’ve only really become familiar with the term “loan fee” since JB arrived and the perception previously was that bigger clubs loaned players to smaller clubs to enable them to gain experience and sometimes a portion of the wages were paid by the smaller club. We now know that loan fees are part of the everyday football business and that provided other criteria are met the highest bidding club will get the player they want. So when Rovers sign these loan players to replace our own youngsters we are taking on added financial liabilities while continuing to have to pay the players being replaced. The strangest thing to me is that a few weeks ago Hussain Al Saeed was very explicit in saying his aim was not to increase spending on the football operation and there was no need to rush into a promotion attempt because development of the playing side and infrastructure should take place in tandem. Since then we have actually accelerated spending on the playing side which is the complete opposite of what he said he was going to do. |
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on Sept 1, 2023 6:22:20 GMT
And whilst developing a player who belongs to another club. It makes no sense from either footballing or financial perspectives unless it delivers immediate success and even then as you’ve said is built on sand and not sustainable. It’s a sugar rush akin to eating 60 bars of chocolate and drinking 60 bottles of pop all in one go. Perhaps excusable if done for the one missing part that tips a team from ordinary to promotion winning (ala Elliott Anderson) but to do it multiple times to replace good players in a short period of time is insane. It is Barton all over though - he is a compulsive gambler and just can’t help himself. Just one more spin of the roulette wheel. Just one more player……
As you say it will be interesting to see if the Kuwaitis actions match their words, but it does mean more capitalised debt for that sugar fix with uncertain probability of success
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
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Post by eppinggas on Sept 1, 2023 8:27:22 GMT
Bristol Rovers news: Jonson Clarke-Harris transfer boost as Peterborough United warning sent..by Jordan Jones.Bristol Rovers have received both a boost and a warning in their rumoured pursuit of Peterborough United striker Jonson Clarke-Harris. The 29-year-old is said to be on the Gas' radar ahead of Friday's transfer deadline, with a player of his calibre seen as the final piece of the jigsaw. Rovers are in the market for a striker with Joey Barton making an admission on Saturday that he believed that Clarke-Harris was keen to move towards the direction of Bristol. As Barton admitted publicly about the pursuit of the forward, Clarke-Harris was on the score sheet for the Posh last Saturday in their 4-2 defeat to Derby County. He has been transfer listed by the club, but has so far not found a suitor for his services. Now things are beginning to heat up, with Darragh MacAnthony admitting earlier this month that three clubs are in the race for him. It has been revealed by Peterborough Today however that one of those clubs Bolton Wanderers, are unlikely to sign him. It's been reported that Bolton had the opportunity to bid for him earlier this summer and didn't take up the offer amid concerns he wouldn't fit into their system. Bolton had been under the threat of losing Dion Charles, with both Stoke City and Watford said to have had an interest, but he signed a new three-year contract with the Trotters on Sunday. His new contract offers him and the club security, but means that they are unlikely to make a move now for Clarke-Harris, given they’ve kept hold of one of their star players. Peterborough are keen to recoup the £1m they paid for the forward from Rovers back in the summer of 2019, and that would mean for Rovers to be successful in their pursuit, they would need to make him their club record transfer fee. It’s been 31-years since the Gas paid a reported £390,000 to Queens Park Rangers for Andy Tillson, who remains their record signing. Rovers have officially until Friday to finalise a move for Clarke-Harris or any forward, but they along with other suits have been told what will be needed for the Posh to part with the two-time League One Golden Boot winner. ‘There are three clubs interested in ‘Jonno,’ said Darragh MacAnthony last week in his Hard Truths podcast, which was later transcribed by the Peterborough Telegraph. ‘I expect they will try and take the mickey for the first three days of next week, but if they don’t come up with what we want I’ll tell them to **** off and ‘Jonno’ will stay with us.’ Ah, the ever charming Darragh MacAnthony. What an appalling human being he is. Anyway, if we sell Collins for (say) £3mil+ and buy JCH for £2mil - do Rovers get some of the sell-on fee? |
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Post by The Concept on Sept 1, 2023 8:39:28 GMT
Bristol Rovers news: Jonson Clarke-Harris transfer boost as Peterborough United warning sent..by Jordan Jones.Bristol Rovers have received both a boost and a warning in their rumoured pursuit of Peterborough United striker Jonson Clarke-Harris... Ah, the ever charming Darragh MacAnthony. What an appalling human being he is. Anyway, if we sell Collins for (say) £3mil+ and buy JCH for £2mil - do Rovers get some of the sell-on fee? We need to bid as high as we can. The more we pay the more we get in the sell-on fee. It's a win-win situation. |
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Post by The Concept on Sept 1, 2023 8:43:58 GMT
Not sure what I make of this.
Really like JCH, was a great player for us, and scored some fantastic goals. He's obviously continued in that vein, appearing near the top of the scoring charts and in League Teams of the Season.
But I'm not sure whether it will work out with our current team set up, or the relationship with the manager.
Plus the last couple of times I've seen him play against us (one I think was an I-Player in Covid times), he was pretty anonymous and I can't remember him doing much. He has always had a knack of scoring goals out of nothing though.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Sept 1, 2023 9:04:56 GMT
Bristol Rovers news: Jonson Clarke-Harris transfer boost as Peterborough United warning sent..by Jordan Jones.Bristol Rovers have received both a boost and a warning in their rumoured pursuit of Peterborough United striker Jonson Clarke-Harris. The 29-year-old is said to be on the Gas' radar ahead of Friday's transfer deadline, with a player of his calibre seen as the final piece of the jigsaw. Rovers are in the market for a striker with Joey Barton making an admission on Saturday that he believed that Clarke-Harris was keen to move towards the direction of Bristol. As Barton admitted publicly about the pursuit of the forward, Clarke-Harris was on the score sheet for the Posh last Saturday in their 4-2 defeat to Derby County. He has been transfer listed by the club, but has so far not found a suitor for his services. Now things are beginning to heat up, with Darragh MacAnthony admitting earlier this month that three clubs are in the race for him. It has been revealed by Peterborough Today however that one of those clubs Bolton Wanderers, are unlikely to sign him. It's been reported that Bolton had the opportunity to bid for him earlier this summer and didn't take up the offer amid concerns he wouldn't fit into their system. Bolton had been under the threat of losing Dion Charles, with both Stoke City and Watford said to have had an interest, but he signed a new three-year contract with the Trotters on Sunday. His new contract offers him and the club security, but means that they are unlikely to make a move now for Clarke-Harris, given they’ve kept hold of one of their star players. Peterborough are keen to recoup the £1m they paid for the forward from Rovers back in the summer of 2019, and that would mean for Rovers to be successful in their pursuit, they would need to make him their club record transfer fee. It’s been 31-years since the Gas paid a reported £390,000 to Queens Park Rangers for Andy Tillson, who remains their record signing. Rovers have officially until Friday to finalise a move for Clarke-Harris or any forward, but they along with other suits have been told what will be needed for the Posh to part with the two-time League One Golden Boot winner. ‘There are three clubs interested in ‘Jonno,’ said Darragh MacAnthony last week in his Hard Truths podcast, which was later transcribed by the Peterborough Telegraph. ‘I expect they will try and take the mickey for the first three days of next week, but if they don’t come up with what we want I’ll tell them to **** off and ‘Jonno’ will stay with us.’ Ah, the ever charming Darragh MacAnthony. What an appalling human being he is. Anyway, if we sell Collins for (say) £3mil+ and buy JCH for £2mil - do Rovers get some of the sell-on fee? in what surreal universe is Collins worth more than JCH? |
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harrybuckle
Always look on the bright side
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,565
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Post by harrybuckle on Sept 1, 2023 10:43:25 GMT
Ah, the ever charming Darragh MacAnthony. What an appalling human being he is. Anyway, if we sell Collins for (say) £3mil+ and buy JCH for £2mil - do Rovers get some of the sell-on fee? in what surreal universe is Collins worth more than JCH? Jch has won golden boot twice scored goals in the championship and can take fantastic penalties |
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,600
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Post by eppinggas on Sept 1, 2023 11:44:43 GMT
Ah, the ever charming Darragh MacAnthony. What an appalling human being he is. Anyway, if we sell Collins for (say) £3mil+ and buy JCH for £2mil - do Rovers get some of the sell-on fee? in what surreal universe is Collins worth more than JCH? Universe Barton. Silly. |
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Post by laughinggas on Sept 1, 2023 13:27:30 GMT
And whilst developing a player who belongs to another club. It makes no sense from either footballing or financial perspectives unless it delivers immediate success and even then as you’ve said is built on sand and not sustainable. It’s a sugar rush akin to eating 60 bars of chocolate and drinking 60 bottles of pop all in one go. Perhaps excusable if done for the one missing part that tips a team from ordinary to promotion winning (ala Elliott Anderson) but to do it multiple times to replace good players in a short period of time is insane. It is Barton all over though - he is a compulsive gambler and just can’t help himself. Just one more spin of the roulette wheel. Just one more player…… As you say it will be interesting to see if the Kuwaitis actions match their words, but it does mean more capitalised debt for that sugar fix with uncertain probability of success To be fair most clubs in EFL have loan players these days. |
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Sept 1, 2023 14:05:48 GMT
Lebo Mothiba Spotted at Lulsgate Airport. Does Lebo fit the mold for one of the ambitious Bristol Clubs?
His terrace nickname is the Oaf.
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Post by rideintothesun on Sept 1, 2023 16:30:50 GMT
Ah, the ever charming Darragh MacAnthony. What an appalling human being he is. Anyway, if we sell Collins for (say) £3mil+ and buy JCH for £2mil - do Rovers get some of the sell-on fee? in what surreal universe is Collins worth more than JCH? The same one you inhabit. Younger, better all-round game, and has re-sale value. Also at an earlier stage of his contract. JCH is also pushing for a move. I also suspect there are issues with JCH's attitude. With his goal-scoring record, you would have expected a Championship side to have made a move by this point. Largely because of the contract and because he wants to leave, 800,000 is a realistic amount. Collins around 1.5m. |
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Sept 1, 2023 18:10:03 GMT
in what surreal universe is Collins worth more than JCH? The same one you inhabit. Younger, better all-round game, and has re-sale value. Also at an earlier stage of his contract. JCH is also pushing for a move. I also suspect there are issues with JCH's attitude. With his goal-scoring record, you would have expected a Championship side to have made a move by this point. Largely because of the contract and because he wants to leave, 800,000 is a realistic amount. Collins around 1.5m. Collins is worth 1.5 million? 🤣 |
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Post by rideintothesun on Sept 1, 2023 18:20:25 GMT
The same one you inhabit. Younger, better all-round game, and has re-sale value. Also at an earlier stage of his contract. JCH is also pushing for a move. I also suspect there are issues with JCH's attitude. With his goal-scoring record, you would have expected a Championship side to have made a move by this point. Largely because of the contract and because he wants to leave, 800,000 is a realistic amount. Collins around 1.5m. Collins is worth 1.5 million? 🤣 At least...Nombe has just gone for 1 million and, unlike Collins, wasn't voted player of the division last year. Collins can create and score goals. |
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Sept 1, 2023 18:45:42 GMT
Collins is worth 1.5 million? 🤣 At least...Nombe has just gone for 1 million and, unlike Collins, wasn't voted player of the division last year. Collins can create and score goals. Plymouth got out of this division last year with the right loans. Most of the players in L1 and L2 successful sides come the end of this season won’t have cost 1.5M. How much did Collins cost us for example? if it was true, Collins worth 1.5M, the only sane thing is take the 1.5M and build a side capable of challenging this season with that sort of money behind the recruitment, loan fee’s, wages etc. a challenge from Rovers is looking uncertain to happen now with what you say is 1.5 million worth of player in this side, is it? |
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Post by rideintothesun on Sept 1, 2023 19:12:40 GMT
At least...Nombe has just gone for 1 million and, unlike Collins, wasn't voted player of the division last year. Collins can create and score goals. Plymouth got out of this division last year with the right loans. Most of the players in L1 and L2 successful sides come the end of this season won’t have cost 1.5M. How much did Collins cost us for example? if it was true, Collins worth 1.5M, the only sane thing is take the 1.5M and build a side capable of challenging this season with that sort of money behind the recruitment, loan fee’s, wages etc. a challenge from Rovers is looking uncertain to happen now with what you say is 1.5 million worth of player in this side, is it? The price is set by the market, which is grossly inflated and distorted. For example, City sold Semenyo, who scored 16 goals in 112 games, to Bournemouth for 10.5m. So the fact that we have a player worth 1.5 million doesn't necessarily mean we will challenge. We didn't need to sell Collins to invest in the squad. This has already happened, and we still have Collins in the team. I would rather keep Collins and build a team around him. |
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Sept 1, 2023 19:26:01 GMT
Plymouth got out of this division last year with the right loans. Most of the players in L1 and L2 successful sides come the end of this season won’t have cost 1.5M. How much did Collins cost us for example? if it was true, Collins worth 1.5M, the only sane thing is take the 1.5M and build a side capable of challenging this season with that sort of money behind the recruitment, loan fee’s, wages etc. a challenge from Rovers is looking uncertain to happen now with what you say is 1.5 million worth of player in this side, is it? The price is set by the market, which is grossly inflated and distorted. For example, City sold Semenyo, who scored 16 goals in 112 games, to Bournemouth for 10.5m. So the fact that we have a player worth 1.5 million doesn't necessarily mean we will challenge. We didn't need to sell Collins to invest in the squad. This has already happened, and we still have Collins in the team. I would rather keep Collins and build a team around him. you - are a Collins fan. I’d rather have the sheer strength of Jonno. |
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