trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 2,543
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Post by trymer on May 9, 2023 13:00:35 GMT
On the subject of items that can be used in criminal activity the Police have long had difficult choices to make. I once had a steel comb confiscated at a football match,apparently people have used them as weapons in the past,lots of things can be used as weapons,I think that some football stadiums will not let you in with coins ? If the Police find that protesters are carrying superglue or items for 'locking on' then the Police need the power to deal with the miscreants,also perhaps a '3 strikes and your out' policy should be adopted ?
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Nobbygas
Joined: June 2014
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Post by Nobbygas on May 9, 2023 13:12:02 GMT
I'm confused now Oldie... is your gripe with the Police for doing their job and upholding the law, with this "Law" or both? Has "Sir" Kier come out and said he will revoke this law should he get into power? I take it you fully support the Just Stop Oil activists and their actions. To answer your only sensible question is my issue is with the law(s) as passed onto the Statute Book over the last 18 months (approx). These laws gave the police Carte Blanche to arrest people if they were causing a "nuisance, updated to now include arrest for carrying super glue. Let me make this clear...I support the police, they have a difficult and often dangerous job to perform. Do they make mistakes, heah absolutely, but he without sin cast the first stone on that one. But their job is to enforce the laws as laid out in the Statute Book, laws democratically authorised by our Sovereign Parliament. Right or wrong, they have no choice. The problem is very stupid, sometimes lying, politicians who win elections on a false pretext and then with that majority in Parliament pass these manifestly stupid, undemocratic laws that our under resourced police are then tasked to enforce. Worse, they are now asked to interpret. Ring any bells for you France? But during the Brexit nonsense in the HoC, where the politicians were hell bent on overturning the democratic will of the British people, you were cheering Parliamentary Democracy from the rooftops, telling us all to check our facts and Parliamentary Democracy was more important than the people's democracy! So, when it looked like going your way Parliamentary Democracy was great. Now that Parliamentary Democracy does something you don't agree with it's suddenly "majority in Parliament pass these manifestly stupid, undemocratic laws" ! You still haven't answered this even though I have now mentioned it a few times.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,516
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Post by oldie on May 9, 2023 16:45:56 GMT
To answer your only sensible question is my issue is with the law(s) as passed onto the Statute Book over the last 18 months (approx). These laws gave the police Carte Blanche to arrest people if they were causing a "nuisance, updated to now include arrest for carrying super glue. Let me make this clear...I support the police, they have a difficult and often dangerous job to perform. Do they make mistakes, heah absolutely, but he without sin cast the first stone on that one. But their job is to enforce the laws as laid out in the Statute Book, laws democratically authorised by our Sovereign Parliament. Right or wrong, they have no choice. The problem is very stupid, sometimes lying, politicians who win elections on a false pretext and then with that majority in Parliament pass these manifestly stupid, undemocratic laws that our under resourced police are then tasked to enforce. Worse, they are now asked to interpret. Ring any bells for you France? But during the Brexit nonsense in the HoC, where the politicians were hell bent on overturning the democratic will of the British people, you were cheering Parliamentary Democracy from the rooftops, telling us all to check our facts and Parliamentary Democracy was more important than the people's democracy! So, when it looked like going your way Parliamentary Democracy was great. Now that Parliamentary Democracy does something you don't agree with it's suddenly "majority in Parliament pass these manifestly stupid, undemocratic laws" ! You still haven't answered this even though I have now mentioned it a few times. Because you display a fundamental misunderstanding of Parliamentary Democracy. I, and others, have explained this to you more than once, but you just don't get it, either because you really don't or are arguing for the sake of it. I hope it's the latter
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Nobbygas
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Post by Nobbygas on May 9, 2023 22:13:57 GMT
But during the Brexit nonsense in the HoC, where the politicians were hell bent on overturning the democratic will of the British people, you were cheering Parliamentary Democracy from the rooftops, telling us all to check our facts and Parliamentary Democracy was more important than the people's democracy! So, when it looked like going your way Parliamentary Democracy was great. Now that Parliamentary Democracy does something you don't agree with it's suddenly "majority in Parliament pass these manifestly stupid, undemocratic laws" ! You still haven't answered this even though I have now mentioned it a few times. Because you display a fundamental misunderstanding of Parliamentary Democracy. I, and others, have explained this to you more than once, but you just don't get it, either because you really don't or are arguing for the sake of it. I hope it's the latter Ah, so we're all dumb, but you can't actually answer my valid question.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,516
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Post by oldie on May 10, 2023 6:59:12 GMT
Because you display a fundamental misunderstanding of Parliamentary Democracy. I, and others, have explained this to you more than once, but you just don't get it, either because you really don't or are arguing for the sake of it. I hope it's the latter Ah, so we're all dumb, but you can't actually answer my valid question. I never said you are all dumb, but you fail (it appears) to understand the difference between arguing a point outside of Parliament and one within it. The one within it will/could result in a valid law on the statute Book. The referendum was never that, it was a proposition put forward by a group of people and the government of the day decided to put that to a public vote. It was NOT LAW at that point. That law had to be drafted in Parliament in the form of agreeing the final Treaty. However given the narrow majority it was perfectly legitimate for MPs to represent the views of the 48% who voted remain. Whichever party they were members of. All this was only legitimised at the end of 2019 when Johnson won his mandate and we signed the leaving treaty. The current laws on protest are equally legitimate laws duly passed in Parliament, nobody is suggesting otherwise. However, as UK citizens we have (or had) a right to protest, argue for amendments etc. Any law passed in Parliament is subject to review and amendment, by Parliament, as they have been through the ages. Nothing is set in stone. Now some MPs, some in the Police force (it now seems) argue now that recently passed protest laws are overbearing and poorly drafted. I find that (personally) comically ironic because the people (party) that drafted them and passed them through Parliament (over ruling the House of Lords at the same time) are fundamentally the same people who led the leave campaign and drafted/passed the departure Treaty with the EU. That also being a pigs breakfast, detrimental to economic well being of the UK and detrimental to the freedom's of our younger generations, ones' us oldies enjoyed for decades. So Parliament is sovereign and we all (apart from a tiny minority of loonies) respect that. But Parliamentary Democracy demands participation of the people it represents (or it dies) and that participation takes many forms beyond ticking a box on polling day. Hence debate and protest. However, if you vote for manifestly stupid and indeed malevolent people then you tend to get stupid and malevolent policies and laws. That is the wonderful imperfection of Parliamentary Democracy. I would argue that this is exactly why we have the disaster resulting from Brexit and exactly why we have an increasingly authoritarian government who seek to suppress dissent as evidence of the poor outcomes of their policies since 2010 has come to light. Hopefully at the next round of our democratic elections they will be soundly defeated and we can undo some, if not all, of this stupidity.
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
Don't care
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Post by eppinggas on Feb 23, 2024 12:06:53 GMT
I think that if Britain became a republic Farage or Trump would make good Presidents. Of any other nation but here though no nation deserves that terrible destiny. Preferably somewhere dangerous where racist xenophobes are not encouraged . I’d rather have Shamima Begum or Diane Abbott than these two colossal cockwombles Looks like you're down to just Diane Abbott now.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
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Post by oldie on Feb 23, 2024 14:04:32 GMT
Of any other nation but here though no nation deserves that terrible destiny. Preferably somewhere dangerous where racist xenophobes are not encouraged . I’d rather have Shamima Begum or Diane Abbott than these two colossal cockwombles Looks like you're down to just Diane Abbott now. Very interesting comments by Jonathan Sumption on R4 this lunchtime.
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