oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 4,401
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Post by oldie on May 8, 2023 10:48:35 GMT
Why is it laughable ? My step son works for the Metropolitan Police and has worked within the anti terrorism unit. He has previously told me that many terrorist plots against London have been prevented and arrests made before the crime has been committed. So yes I'm all for arrests being made if the Police have info before they've had the opportunity to do a crime. But we are not talking terrorists. We are talking protestors. The groups of protestors had already agreed with the police on the actions the were going to take. Some had decided not to take any other action than shout a lot. The Head of the group Republic had given details to the Police of what they had planned. They told the Police where they would be and allowed the Police to search their vehicles and stores. They still arrested the Head of the group without him having committed any crime apart from 'crimes' under the newly rushed through Act that allows free reign to Police. Will the group work the Police again - I very much doubt it. The Police also arrested journalists with full Press passes who were observing the protestors. We used to think that only happened in rogue states. Cheshire It says an awful lot about the character of those who would defend these arrests and the Act which enables them. |
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Post by francegas on May 8, 2023 11:32:30 GMT
Why is it laughable ? My step son works for the Metropolitan Police and has worked within the anti terrorism unit. He has previously told me that many terrorist plots against London have been prevented and arrests made before the crime has been committed. So yes I'm all for arrests being made if the Police have info before they've had the opportunity to do a crime. But we are not talking terrorists. We are talking protestors. The groups of protestors had already agreed with the police on the actions the were going to take. Some had decided not to take any other action than shout a lot. The Head of the group Republic had given details to the Police of what they had planned. They told the Police where they would be and allowed the Police to search their vehicles and stores. They still arrested the Head of the group without him having committed any crime apart from 'crimes' under the newly rushed through Act that allows free reign to Police. Will the group work the Police again - I very much doubt it. The Police also arrested journalists with full Press passes who were observing the protestors. We used to think that only happened in rogue states. I know that. But you made a sweeping statement of Oh for the days when you had to commit a crime first, I was just replying that it's perfectly justifiable to make an arrest before a crime has been committed and gave an example. Is "intent" to commit a crime a criminal offence in the UK (I honestly don't know) If it is why did they transport rape alarms to the procession. Before the coronation if was reported that there was intent to disrupt the procession by use of rape alarms. Imagine if the Police didn't react an alarm was used , spooked a horse, and caused serious injury to the rider or members of the general public. |
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Post by baselswh on May 8, 2023 11:53:40 GMT
But we are not talking terrorists. We are talking protestors. The groups of protestors had already agreed with the police on the actions the were going to take. Some had decided not to take any other action than shout a lot. The Head of the group Republic had given details to the Police of what they had planned. They told the Police where they would be and allowed the Police to search their vehicles and stores. They still arrested the Head of the group without him having committed any crime apart from 'crimes' under the newly rushed through Act that allows free reign to Police. Will the group work the Police again - I very much doubt it. The Police also arrested journalists with full Press passes who were observing the protestors. We used to think that only happened in rogue states. I know that. But you made a sweeping statement of Oh for the days when you had to commit a crime first, I was just replying that it's perfectly justifiable to make an arrest before a crime has been committed and gave an example. Is "intent" to commit a crime a criminal offence in the UK (I honestly don't know) If it is why did they transport rape alarms to the procession. Before the coronation if was reported that there was intent to disrupt the procession by use of rape alarms. Imagine if the Police didn't react an alarm was used , spooked a horse, and caused serious injury to the rider or members of the general public. You can be arrested for intent.It is a crime and can go to Court. |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 4,401
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Post by oldie on May 8, 2023 12:47:27 GMT
I know that. But you made a sweeping statement of Oh for the days when you had to commit a crime first, I was just replying that it's perfectly justifiable to make an arrest before a crime has been committed and gave an example. Is "intent" to commit a crime a criminal offence in the UK (I honestly don't know) If it is why did they transport rape alarms to the procession. Before the coronation if was reported that there was intent to disrupt the procession by use of rape alarms. Imagine if the Police didn't react an alarm was used , spooked a horse, and caused serious injury to the rider or members of the general public. You can be arrested for intent.It is a crime and can go to Court. You are completely missing the point. Nobody is arguing otherwise. But in this case, intent to do what? Protest? |
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Post by baselswh on May 8, 2023 12:57:23 GMT
You can be arrested for intent.It is a crime and can go to Court. You are completely missing the point. Nobody is arguing otherwise. But in this case, intent to do what? Protest? The point of my post was to tell Francegas "intent" is a crime in the UK.He posted he did'nt know. Perhaps it's better for all if you had read his post and then you would of understood my post to Francegas .Please. Also,it's been posted on this thread the Police found rape alarms,glue and handcuffs. Public disorder 'weapons '. |
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Post by baselswh on May 8, 2023 13:01:15 GMT
Arrested before he had done anything not even shouted.... Oh for the days where you had to break the law first. "Oh for the days where you had to break the law first" ....Are you sure about that. Would you prefer a terrorist to be arrested before he broke the law or afterwards when he's blown up a building killing many. This is the best post ( above ) on this thread. Spot on from Francegas. |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 4,401
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Post by oldie on May 8, 2023 13:24:27 GMT
"Oh for the days where you had to break the law first" ....Are you sure about that. Would you prefer a terrorist to be arrested before he broke the law or afterwards when he's blown up a building killing many. This is the best post ( above ) on this thread. Spot on from Francegas. To repeat. A completely false equivalence. Nobody is arguing against that. What we arguing against is the arrest of (allegedly) innocent people who wanted to protest, peacefully. |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 4,401
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Post by oldie on May 8, 2023 13:32:02 GMT
You are completely missing the point. Nobody is arguing otherwise. But in this case, intent to do what? Protest? The point of my post was to tell Francegas "intent" is a crime in the UK.He posted he did'nt know. Perhaps it's better for all if you had read his post and then you would of understood my post to Francegas .Please. Also,it's been posted on this thread the Police found rape alarms,glue and handcuffs. Public disorder 'weapons '. I listened to the head of Republic and a representative of the police this morning on R4. The guy from Republic was one of those arrested. He maintained that there had been open dialogue with the police about their intent, the who, the how and the where. The guy from the police didn't deny it. Seems strange to me that if the police suspected this group of more than they had declared, it's pretty shocking that they, the police let them get so close. All of this stuff has the whiff of a smoke screen. A screen to not have the viewers witness a rebuke of the "establishment". |
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,166 
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Post by Cheshiregas on May 8, 2023 15:10:10 GMT
But we are not talking terrorists. We are talking protestors. The groups of protestors had already agreed with the police on the actions the were going to take. Some had decided not to take any other action than shout a lot. The Head of the group Republic had given details to the Police of what they had planned. They told the Police where they would be and allowed the Police to search their vehicles and stores. They still arrested the Head of the group without him having committed any crime apart from 'crimes' under the newly rushed through Act that allows free reign to Police. Will the group work the Police again - I very much doubt it. The Police also arrested journalists with full Press passes who were observing the protestors. We used to think that only happened in rogue states. I know that. But you made a sweeping statement of Oh for the days when you had to commit a crime first, I was just replying that it's perfectly justifiable to make an arrest before a crime has been committed and gave an example. Is "intent" to commit a crime a criminal offence in the UK (I honestly don't know) If it is why did they transport rape alarms to the procession. Before the coronation if was reported that there was intent to disrupt the procession by use of rape alarms. Imagine if the Police didn't react an alarm was used , spooked a horse, and caused serious injury to the rider or members of the general public. I indicated that I agreed with the principle of premediated action for terrorists but this is NOT a terrorist event. There were rumours that rape alarms might be used but nothing was found at the Republic HQ and yet arrests WERE still made and most other arrests were for people protesting loudly rather than with the potential to cause injury or violence. Planning with intent is now considered an arrestable offence as far as I am understood as was shown yesterday with some of the Republic members and head. You would have to find out from your relative the exact extent and how wide ranging those offences can be stretched and to how far the Met and others will be able to use them. The Met have tended in the past to push the boundaries as far as they can, look at the arrests for the women in the Sarah Everard protests. And just to clarify, I have always been a supporter of the Police in carrying out their duties, but I have also seen how they can misuse their powers. |
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Post by Nobbygas on May 8, 2023 15:17:40 GMT
So you have a group of people who are anti monarchists [AM] i presume they call themselves , fair play to them , respect their views on that no problem, but wish to impose themselves and their thoughts on the greater majority of people wishing to embrace the day, IF the AM want to have a show or gathering to express their views then why not just go and have their gathering where they will not annoy the majority and likely provoke some sort of reaction ....as what tends to occur at some time during these high profile events English Republicans. They have a right to protest. Hang on, let me correct myself, they HAD a right to protest. As a republican myself I was mightily inconvenienced by by the supporting crowds, utterly bored with the relentless propaganda on all media outlets. But do I want a law placed on the Statute Book which gives the Executive Branch of our democracy the right to shut all that down? Absolutely not. Voltaire was spot on all those years ago "The right to free speech is more important than the content of the speech" So, the law was passed in Parliament. Aren't you the one who argued that Parliamentry Democracy was sacrosanct, especially during the Brexit debacle in the House? The word 'hypocrite' springs to mind. One minute you claim Parliamentry Democracy is ok especially when it's going your way, the next you want to ignore it! Make your mind up. |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 4,401
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Post by oldie on May 8, 2023 16:07:07 GMT
English Republicans. They have a right to protest. Hang on, let me correct myself, they HAD a right to protest. As a republican myself I was mightily inconvenienced by by the supporting crowds, utterly bored with the relentless propaganda on all media outlets. But do I want a law placed on the Statute Book which gives the Executive Branch of our democracy the right to shut all that down? Absolutely not. Voltaire was spot on all those years ago "The right to free speech is more important than the content of the speech" So, the law was passed in Parliament. Aren't you the one who argued that Parliamentry Democracy was sacrosanct, especially during the Brexit debacle in the House? The word 'hypocrite' springs to mind. One minute you claim Parliamentry Democracy is ok especially when it's going your way, the next you want to ignore it! Make your mind up. Open your mind Nobby. Parliament as it is currently constituted had the legal power to pass that Act onto the Statute Book. Nobody is disputing that. That it is a Draconian law that acts as a suppression of our right of assembly and protest as many of us argued as it was going through the House. The events of the weekend proved the case. It's a disgrace and hands to the police powers that are open to their own interpretation. Personally I hope the members of Republic sue the Met for false arrest, in that way we can see the argument played out in court, in front of an independent judiciary. But they had better hurry, with a person like Suella Braverman as Home Secretary god knows how much longer our judiciary will be truly independent. |
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 1,504
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Post by trymer on May 8, 2023 17:19:36 GMT
Apparently the arrests were made for 'conspiracy to cause a public nuisance'... 46 have been bailed... 4 charged... 1 for public order offences...2 for possession of class A drugs.
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 1,504
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Post by trymer on May 8, 2023 17:24:00 GMT
Hopefully the Police start to issue dispersal notices or make arrests for causing a public nuisance at protests where roads are blocked, let working people get on with their lives.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 4,401
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Post by oldie on May 8, 2023 18:03:07 GMT
Apparently the arrests were made for 'conspiracy to cause a public nuisance'... 46 have been bailed... 4 charged... 1 for public order offences...2 for possession of class A drugs. Can you imagine, unsolved sexual assaults, unresolved burglaries, fraud, violent crime, murder. And what do we do? Task an under resourced and over stretched police force with chasing people around for causing a public nuisance. Only in a Tory run Britain, a government pandering to the Alf Garnet sound alikes. |
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,166
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Post by Cheshiregas on May 8, 2023 19:14:20 GMT
So, the law was passed in Parliament. Aren't you the one who argued that Parliamentry Democracy was sacrosanct, especially during the Brexit debacle in the House? The word 'hypocrite' springs to mind. One minute you claim Parliamentry Democracy is ok especially when it's going your way, the next you want to ignore it! Make your mind up. Open your mind Nobby. Parliament as it is currently constituted had the legal power to pass that Act onto the Statute Book. Nobody is disputing that. That it is a Draconian law that acts as a suppression of our right of assembly and protest as many of us argued as it was going through the House. The events of the weekend proved the case. It's a disgrace and hands to the police powers that are open to their own interpretation. Personally I hope the members of Republic sue the Met for false arrest, in that way we can see the argument played out in court, in front of an independent judiciary. But they had better hurry, with a person like Suella Braverman as Home Secretary god knows how much longer our judiciary will be truly independent. Boris Johnson was and the ERG are keen to continue the politicisation of Government as per the disastrous appointment at the BBC. They would like to appoint senior civil servants and judges as in the USA who suit the political agenda, Rees Smugg is a great advocate. Especially after the Daily Mail attacked Senior Judges as the 'Enemies of the People'. |
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Post by baselswh on May 8, 2023 20:09:42 GMT
Apparently the arrests were made for 'conspiracy to cause a public nuisance'... 46 have been bailed... 4 charged... 1 for public order offences...2 for possession of class A drugs. Can you imagine, unsolved sexual assaults, unresolved burglaries, fraud, violent crime, murder. And what do we do? Task an under resourced and over stretched police force with chasing people around for causing a public nuisance. Only in a Tory run Britain, a government pandering to the Alf Garnet sound alikes. These protesters,eg XR,Stop Oil,Republicans etc have in recent times created much disorder.Britons lost alot of money,some their livelihood and one or two their life. They were treated very well by the Police,they had a good run.Some still enjoy the Police 'looking the other way' and this can be a danger to the public. A Labour Government would of also seen the Police do their job correctly, as was seen on ,Coronation day. Your precious EU on the other hand,spray tear gas em in the face,cart em off and if one or two get bashed up abit into the bargain,well 'bonne chance' with that. |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 4,401
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Post by oldie on May 8, 2023 20:21:01 GMT
Can you imagine, unsolved sexual assaults, unresolved burglaries, fraud, violent crime, murder. And what do we do? Task an under resourced and over stretched police force with chasing people around for causing a public nuisance. Only in a Tory run Britain, a government pandering to the Alf Garnet sound alikes. These protesters,eg XR,Stop Oil,Republicans etc have in recent times created much disorder.Britons lost alot of money,some their livelihood and one or two their life. They were treated very well by the Police,they had a good run.Some still enjoy the Police 'looking the other way' and this can be a danger to the public. A Labour Government would of also seen the Police do their job correctly, as was seen on ,Coronation day. Your precious EU on the other hand,spray tear gas em in the face,cart em off and if one or two get bashed up abit into the bargain,well 'bonne chance' with that. Christ, a return to form. What happened, your script writer of the last couple of days gone AWOL? I am afraid your post is full of rambling nonsense and is barely coherent so it is hard to take your views seriously. Apologies in advance if that offends. |
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Post by baselswh on May 8, 2023 20:47:41 GMT
These protesters,eg XR,Stop Oil,Republicans etc have in recent times created much disorder.Britons lost alot of money,some their livelihood and one or two their life. They were treated very well by the Police,they had a good run.Some still enjoy the Police 'looking the other way' and this can be a danger to the public. A Labour Government would of also seen the Police do their job correctly, as was seen on ,Coronation day. Your precious EU on the other hand,spray tear gas em in the face,cart em off and if one or two get bashed up abit into the bargain,well 'bonne chance' with that. Christ, a return to form. What happened, your script writer of the last couple of days gone AWOL? I am afraid your post is full of rambling nonsense and is barely coherent so it is hard to take your views seriously. Apologies in advance if that offends. Gas lighting,snide remarks,sarcasm and phoney insulting apologies. You're a piece of work you are. Labour would of had the Police do the same.So it's not only a Tory Government keeping "Alf Garnett" types happy. Our Police Force handled the situation well.Compare our Bobbies performance to say how the French of your precious EU usually handle things.Tear gas and violence. |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 4,401
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Post by oldie on May 9, 2023 5:02:26 GMT
Well well The Met have now apologised. BBC News - Coronation: Met Police express 'regret' over arresting six anti-monarchy protesters www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65527007Must be embarrassing for those of you who were lauding their actions. 😂⤵️ |
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Post by Nobbygas on May 9, 2023 6:01:07 GMT
Well well The Met have now apologised. BBC News - Coronation: Met Police express 'regret' over arresting six anti-monarchy protesters www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65527007Must be embarrassing for those of you who were lauding their actions. 😂⤵️ Only over six people. |
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