bluetornados
Predictions League
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Post by bluetornados on Aug 20, 2024 19:05:34 GMT
Man jailed for threatening police at Rotherham asylum seeker hotel..by Victoria Scheer, Reporting from Sheffield Crown Courtichef.bbci.co.uk/ace/standard/1024/cpsprodpb/9d54/live/43eb6430-5f05-11ef-b43e-6916dcba5cbf.jpgA man who threatened violence and cheered as missiles were thrown at police who were trying to protect a hotel that housed asylum seekers has been jailed. Lee Crisp “actively encouraged” rioters who had gathered outside the Holiday Inn Express in Manvers, Rotherham, on 4th August. The 42-year-old factory worker told officers they should be “ashamed of themselves”, shouted “let’s go toe to toe” and made racist comments. At Sheffield Crown Court on Tuesday, Crisp, of Mount Road, Grimethorpe, pleaded guilty to violent disorder and was sentenced to three years and four months imprisonment. He was also made subject of a criminal behaviour order for 10 years. Passing the sentence, the Recorder of Sheffield, Judge Jeremy Richardson KC, told Crisp his behaviour had been “truly dreadful”. During his first appearance at Sheffield Magistrates’ Court, Crisp had claimed he accidentally got caught up in the riot when taking his mother for Sunday lunch. I guess we would never have known this without this clutter Les, my dear old friend, i have told you many times before, if it upsets you to be very careful of raising that blood pressure of yours, keep calm and carry on.
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Icegas
Joined: September 2014
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Post by Icegas on Aug 20, 2024 21:58:34 GMT
Countries are artificial constructions that are there for purely historical and political reasons. Looking at countries, coldy and clinically, in say the the British Islands from a geographical, geophysical and population perspective there is no logical reason to have two 'countries' in Ireland nor 3 on the mainland. There is plenty of room, food, wealth and natural resources for all, yet that isn't the actual case because of greed, and power hungry individuals. But peoples want to congregate together and put in place leaders to rule them, mostly badly. A small amount of people hold power, wealth and resources, mainly because of their birth. You can trace much of the land owning in the UK back to the Norman conquest and the distribution of land to the victors, their families and their mates. People have always migrated for various reasons. The original humans as we know them originated from Africa. The history that is preached of 'discovery' and 'conquest' is mainly from the last 500 years. Britain and other empires more recent like the French, Spanish, Dutch and Portuguese and less so the German and Belgian spent most of their time fighting each other, and when the wars were over clerks and civil servants sat in dark rooms dividing up countries that they had 'conquered' and most of the divisions have given us the conflicts we have today. That is not to say much was achieved but we need to have a degree of honesty. People can complain all they like about immigrants coming here but many come from countries we have either colonised, fought with or over, and still sit around in not even bothering to learn the language. What is happening now has a legacy in the past. So when people go on about 'our' borders and country, they should perhaps take a step back and have a damn good look at history. "People can complain all they like about immigrants coming here but many come from countries we have either colonised, fought with or over, and still sit around in not even bothering to learn the language. What is happening now has a legacy in the past. So when people go on about 'our' borders and country, they should perhaps take a step back and have a damn good look at history." ..... I'm sorry this bit has nothing to do with today. We are overwhelmed in almost every section of our society,and it's naive to justify what's happening today in regards to uncontrolled mass immigration to our country on that you said above. There is no connection. So let's have a serious discussion on immigration if we may.
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aghast
David Williams
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Post by aghast on Aug 20, 2024 23:15:46 GMT
I don't feel overwhelmed. I see a multicultural society in some areas of the UK, pockets of high concentration of different cultures in some places (as has always happened in the UK and in other countries) and large areas of the UK where immigration has hardly touched the local area.
I walk around Bristol and I don't feel like I'm being overwhelmed. I just don't see the same as some obviously do.
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baldrick
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Post by baldrick on Aug 20, 2024 23:59:08 GMT
This is the current shortage occupation list www.davidsonmorris.com/shortage-occupation-list/We have a growing, older population: "the UK has an ageing population, with 19.17 per cent of the UK population aged over 65 years old as of 2022. That means nearly a fifth of the UK’s population, many of them skilled, is above retirement age, further diminishing the workforce." www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/jobs-shortages-list-immigration-visa-sector-skills-workers-b1174975.html"Of the 133,446 vacancies in September 2022, 9,053 (6.2%) were for medical posts and 47,496 (11.9%) were in nursing." In adult social care "more existing posts were vacant (increasing by 52% or 55,000 to 165,000) since 2020/21. Skills for Care suggested that the decrease in filled posts was due to recruitment and retention difficulties in the sector" "The results revealed that if trends had continued at the rate before Brexit, there would be 4,000 more doctors in the UK from the EU and EFTA." "In November 2022, the King’s Fund published a report examining NHS staffing shortages. It stated that these shortages existed because of three groups of challenges “which politicians find hard to overcome”. "Firstly, the organisation identified that there are difficulties in workforce forecasting due to numerous issues. This includes the length of time it takes to train a health care professional—namely, three years for a nurse; 10 years for a general practitioner (GP); and approximately 15 years for a consultant). As a result, the King’s Fund contend that “by the time those in training enter the workforce, the world will look very different” from the one that workforce planners had prepared for. Secondly, the King’s Fund argued that the UK “fail to train enough staff”. It highlighted that for HM Treasury it costs more than £60,000 to train a nurse and more than £500,000 to train a consultant, and said that getting these decisions wrong “generates real fiscal danger”, particularly if the government should overestimate. Indeed, the King’s Fund said it was arguably better for HM Treasury to “assume a high level of productivity from the future workforce in calculating our future needs and thus to run the risk of delivering an undersupply of staff rather than an oversupply”.
Thirdly, the King’s Fund criticised successive governments for migration policy not being set with the “NHS’s interests in mind”."
lordslibrary.parliament.uk/staff-shortages-in-the-nhs-and-social-care-sectors/
Not sure why the text is partly striked through, hopefully it is legible.
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baldrick
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Post by baldrick on Aug 21, 2024 0:11:28 GMT
So, looking at the points raised in my previous post, there are lots of vacancies need filling but there are many obstacles to doing this.
One is cost, both in training and salaries, which will impact the affordability.
Another is the time lag between recruiting and being competent in the role.
Also the desirable nature of the role, many vacancies will be inappropriate, not within commuting distance or simply incompatible with certain aspects of life (eg part time hours).
All in all, to reduce our dependence on immigration we'll need to pay for improvements and training. That will be a long term thing, so in the meantime we either accept immigration or that we simply cannot meet the standards of service.
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baldrick
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Post by baldrick on Aug 21, 2024 0:17:38 GMT
I don't feel overwhelmed. I see a multicultural society in some areas of the UK, pockets of high concentration of different cultures in some places (as has always happened in the UK and in other countries) and large areas of the UK where immigration has hardly touched the local area. I walk around Bristol and I don't feel like I'm being overwhelmed. I just don't see the same as some obviously do. I've been to places in Scotland and Wales where I've felt ill at ease for being English, or even being working class whilst mingling with middle class circles. I've felt quite comfortable walking around the likes of Easton or Barton Hill, but then I grew up nearby.
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Icegas
Joined: September 2014
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Post by Icegas on Aug 21, 2024 1:26:54 GMT
I don't feel overwhelmed. I see a multicultural society in some areas of the UK, pockets of high concentration of different cultures in some places (as has always happened in the UK and in other countries) and large areas of the UK where immigration has hardly touched the local area. I walk around Bristol and I don't feel like I'm being overwhelmed. I just don't see the same as some obviously do. I've only seen the impact on Bristol over the past two years. Compared to other places in the UK we have no immigration problems at all due to this being a very liberal, student and wealthy city.But we still have a huge problem. You go to London, Birmingham, Luton, Burnley, Bradford,Blackburn,Bolton, Rochdale Oldham,Leeds, Huddersfield, Telford , Leicester, Coventry, Boston and a continuing list of UK towns and cities and you will not feel the same. We have a problem.
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Post by baselswh on Aug 21, 2024 6:39:09 GMT
Millions of Britons see their country and our Union of countries with a great fondness. It means a togetherness of shared good and bad times,experiences that make it what it is,or perhaps these days,could be. It took centuries to get where we are today. Any particular part of history Britons should take a look at? 1066 - what happened with the dividing of the land after the Norman Conquest and how many landed folk today can trace back ownership of land The dividing up and establishment of lands between the Empires of 18th and 19th Century Quick look at the East India Company and its behaviour Britain's part in the slave trade and paying off of the slave owners Actions of the British in Ireland especially during the Great Famine Might explain why a lot of people don't like the British and why still many want to come here There are plenty of good bits in the law, improvement in health, sanitation etc Many rail routes abroad, sewerage and communication systems, legal frameworks, foundations of industrial growth, and so on were established and are creditable points. I know the above will get you irate, but there are many good parts as well as the not so good, but knowing the background as to why people flock to Britain may help explain why they aren't here just because of the benefits! Glad you recognise the "good bits". Are you genuinely upset about how William the Conqueror went about things,1066! Over a thousand years ago! Would that justify millions of English legally and illegally moving to/invading France?(I see the relationship between France and Islam is all going swimmingly .) It was still centuries before the Manchester Guardian began to teach us better,backed by slave trade cash.My point being it was a long time a go and things were clearly done differently then. There is absolutely no justification for mass uncontrolled immigration,none. It's ridiculous to claim we owe them, so they are entitled to invade England and bring their anti free,anti British dangerous religion with them. The attempted destruction of peoples identity,their shared past and nation is disgusting.Globalism.All for what?Immigrant anti British resentment, along with middle class, virtue signalling weird guilt ,demanding we all feel it.Feel what?Our white guilt!Our shame of a history that when given a balanced view,is fascinating and fantastic. We are who we are because of our past. Those quite likely being placed behind terrorists in the housing queue have every right to feel exasperated.They no doubt have family that fought and possibly died for GB. 20 odd years of voting for bulls**tting Governments,that have repeatedly told them yes,we hear your concerns on immigration and we'll sort it it.Then nothing.It gets worse. Where's their voice? Stolen and used by sussessive Conservative and Labour Government liars.
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
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Post by Cheshiregas on Aug 21, 2024 7:50:30 GMT
Countries are artificial constructions that are there for purely historical and political reasons. Looking at countries, coldy and clinically, in say the the British Islands from a geographical, geophysical and population perspective there is no logical reason to have two 'countries' in Ireland nor 3 on the mainland. There is plenty of room, food, wealth and natural resources for all, yet that isn't the actual case because of greed, and power hungry individuals. But peoples want to congregate together and put in place leaders to rule them, mostly badly. A small amount of people hold power, wealth and resources, mainly because of their birth. You can trace much of the land owning in the UK back to the Norman conquest and the distribution of land to the victors, their families and their mates. People have always migrated for various reasons. The original humans as we know them originated from Africa. The history that is preached of 'discovery' and 'conquest' is mainly from the last 500 years. Britain and other empires more recent like the French, Spanish, Dutch and Portuguese and less so the German and Belgian spent most of their time fighting each other, and when the wars were over clerks and civil servants sat in dark rooms dividing up countries that they had 'conquered' and most of the divisions have given us the conflicts we have today. That is not to say much was achieved but we need to have a degree of honesty. People can complain all they like about immigrants coming here but many come from countries we have either colonised, fought with or over, and still sit around in not even bothering to learn the language. What is happening now has a legacy in the past. So when people go on about 'our' borders and country, they should perhaps take a step back and have a damn good look at history. "People can complain all they like about immigrants coming here but many come from countries we have either colonised, fought with or over, and still sit around in not even bothering to learn the language. What is happening now has a legacy in the past. So when people go on about 'our' borders and country, they should perhaps take a step back and have a damn good look at history." ..... I'm sorry this bit has nothing to do with today. We are overwhelmed in almost every section of our society,and it's naive to justify what's happening today in regards to uncontrolled mass immigration to our country on that you said above. There is no connection. So let's have a serious discussion on immigration if we may.A hell of a lot of the people who are coming are from countries that we once dominated and painted the red of Empire! India, Pakistan, Afghanistan [we tried], Nigeria, etc And the Caribbean nations who fought so ably for us in the last war along side the above. Look at the nationality of the families who have been represented in Parliament and as leaders of the country. Of course history plays a part in what's going on today, and ignoring that is part of the problem! Why do you think a lot of people want to come to the UK? And it's not for the paltry benefits that they all rant about! So let's have a serious discussion but not naively think it has nothing to do with the past.
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Cheshiregas
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Post by Cheshiregas on Aug 21, 2024 8:06:01 GMT
1066 - what happened with the dividing of the land after the Norman Conquest and how many landed folk today can trace back ownership of land The dividing up and establishment of lands between the Empires of 18th and 19th Century Quick look at the East India Company and its behaviour Britain's part in the slave trade and paying off of the slave owners Actions of the British in Ireland especially during the Great Famine Might explain why a lot of people don't like the British and why still many want to come here There are plenty of good bits in the law, improvement in health, sanitation etc Many rail routes abroad, sewerage and communication systems, legal frameworks, foundations of industrial growth, and so on were established and are creditable points. I know the above will get you irate, but there are many good parts as well as the not so good, but knowing the background as to why people flock to Britain may help explain why they aren't here just because of the benefits! Glad you recognise the "good bits". Are you genuinely upset about how William the Conqueror went about things,1066! Over a thousand years ago! Would that justify millions of English legally and illegally moving to/invading France?(I see the relationship between France and Islam is all going swimmingly .) It was still centuries before the Manchester Guardian began to teach us better,backed by slave trade cash.My point being it was a long time a go and things were clearly done differently then. There is absolutely no justification for mass uncontrolled immigration,none. It's ridiculous to claim we owe them, so they are entitled to invade England and bring their anti free,anti British dangerous religion with them. The attempted destruction of peoples identity,their shared past and nation is disgusting.Globalism.All for what?Immigrant anti British resentment, along with middle class, virtue signalling weird guilt ,demanding we all feel it.Feel what?Our white guilt!Our shame of a history that when given a balanced view,is fascinating and fantastic. We are who we are because of our past. Those quite likely being placed behind terrorists in the housing queue have every right to feel exasperated.They no doubt have family that fought and possibly died for GB. 20 odd years of voting for bulls**tting Governments,that have repeatedly told them yes,we hear your concerns on immigration and we'll sort it it.Then nothing.It gets worse. Where's their voice? Stolen and used by sussessive Conservative and Labour Government liars. The attempted destruction of peoples identity, their shared past and nation is disgusting. And what did we do to the cultures of lands we invaded? The church tried to convert them all, tried to wipe away their traditions, made them dress correctly, we imposed our laws, mined their lands, found a few jewels here and there, stuck them in concentration camps in South Africa including women and children, do you want me to go on. Like Icegas, you want to be blind to the past and what we did. Oh and have a word with the Brits abroad who are immigrants but like to be called expats as it doesn't sound so bad. Have a word about how they demand fish and chips, 'English' breakfast, pubs, and getting pi$$ed up on a Saturday night. What about the locals culture and language that Brits abroad ignore? Like Icegas you want to be blind to the past. As for current immigration, don't blame those who come, blame the government and business people who want them, and also blame the large percentage of white Brits who don't want to work nor do the jobs that are beneath them. If it hadn't been for the Windrush generation and others this country would have struggled to recover after the last war. The point you missed about WTC was that many who own vast swathes of the UK now had families who were part of the conquest and are only rich because of that not because of their own labours. That vast inequality and the power they retain keeps the likes of the poor Brits in their place, not Johnny Forriner!
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,591
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Post by oldie on Aug 21, 2024 8:26:44 GMT
Glad you recognise the "good bits". Are you genuinely upset about how William the Conqueror went about things,1066! Over a thousand years ago! Would that justify millions of English legally and illegally moving to/invading France?(I see the relationship between France and Islam is all going swimmingly .) It was still centuries before the Manchester Guardian began to teach us better,backed by slave trade cash.My point being it was a long time a go and things were clearly done differently then. There is absolutely no justification for mass uncontrolled immigration,none. It's ridiculous to claim we owe them, so they are entitled to invade England and bring their anti free,anti British dangerous religion with them. The attempted destruction of peoples identity,their shared past and nation is disgusting.Globalism.All for what?Immigrant anti British resentment, along with middle class, virtue signalling weird guilt ,demanding we all feel it.Feel what?Our white guilt!Our shame of a history that when given a balanced view,is fascinating and fantastic. We are who we are because of our past. Those quite likely being placed behind terrorists in the housing queue have every right to feel exasperated.They no doubt have family that fought and possibly died for GB. 20 odd years of voting for bulls**tting Governments,that have repeatedly told them yes,we hear your concerns on immigration and we'll sort it it.Then nothing.It gets worse. Where's their voice? Stolen and used by sussessive Conservative and Labour Government liars. The attempted destruction of peoples identity, their shared past and nation is disgusting. And what did we do to the cultures of lands we invaded? The church tried to convert them all, tried to wipe away their traditions, made them dress correctly, we imposed our laws, mined their lands, found a few jewels here and there, stuck them in concentration camps in South Africa including women and children, do you want me to go on. Like Icegas, you want to be blind to the past and what we did. Oh and have a word with the Brits abroad who are immigrants but like to be called expats as it doesn't sound so bad. Have a word about how they demand fish and chips, 'English' breakfast, pubs, and getting pi$$ed up on a Saturday night. What about the locals culture and language that Brits abroad ignore? Like Icegas you want to be blind to the past. As for current immigration, don't blame those who come, blame the government and business people who want them, and also blame the large percentage of white Brits who don't want to work nor do the jobs that are beneath them. If it hadn't been for the Windrush generation and others this country would have struggled to recover after the last war. The point you missed about WTC was that many who own vast swathes of the UK now had families who were part of the conquest and are only rich because of that not because of their own labours. That vast inequality and the power they retain keeps the likes of the poor Brits in their place, not Johnny Forriner! We had this debate on here a couple of years ago. I was labelled a traitor, someone who hates this country, just for pointing out the facts of history. Basel even advocated burning books that held views contrary to his (blinkered) views. History is a matter of record, however how it has been taught leaves a lot to be desired. For some I can only conclude it has not been taught at all. As for cause and effect, well you could throw a bucket of water over some and they would still not be able too identify why they are wet.
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baldrick
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Post by baldrick on Aug 21, 2024 9:04:25 GMT
The attempted destruction of peoples identity, their shared past and nation is disgusting. And what did we do to the cultures of lands we invaded? The church tried to convert them all, tried to wipe away their traditions, made them dress correctly, we imposed our laws, mined their lands, found a few jewels here and there, stuck them in concentration camps in South Africa including women and children, do you want me to go on. Like Icegas, you want to be blind to the past and what we did. Oh and have a word with the Brits abroad who are immigrants but like to be called expats as it doesn't sound so bad. Have a word about how they demand fish and chips, 'English' breakfast, pubs, and getting pi$$ed up on a Saturday night. What about the locals culture and language that Brits abroad ignore? Like Icegas you want to be blind to the past. As for current immigration, don't blame those who come, blame the government and business people who want them, and also blame the large percentage of white Brits who don't want to work nor do the jobs that are beneath them. If it hadn't been for the Windrush generation and others this country would have struggled to recover after the last war. The point you missed about WTC was that many who own vast swathes of the UK now had families who were part of the conquest and are only rich because of that not because of their own labours. That vast inequality and the power they retain keeps the likes of the poor Brits in their place, not Johnny Forriner! We had this debate on here a couple of years ago. I was labelled a traitor, someone who hates this country, just for pointing out the facts of history. Basel even advocated burning books that held views contrary to his (blinkered) views. History is a matter of record, however how it has been taught leaves a lot to be desired. For some I can only conclude it has not been taught at all. As for cause and effect, well you could throw a bucket of water over some and they would still not be able too identify why they are wet. Not so much how it's taught, more whether it's taught at all and definitely how it's (mis)remembered. Partly thanks to Hollywood oversimplifying. How many think Braveheart was a biopic? They couldn't even get the execution scene right. Is that the debate over David Olusoga and the Battle of the Somme casualty list? From memory the YouTuber quoted had a rather dislike for people of a certain persuasion.
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Cheshiregas
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Post by Cheshiregas on Aug 21, 2024 9:19:23 GMT
The attempted destruction of peoples identity, their shared past and nation is disgusting. And what did we do to the cultures of lands we invaded? The church tried to convert them all, tried to wipe away their traditions, made them dress correctly, we imposed our laws, mined their lands, found a few jewels here and there, stuck them in concentration camps in South Africa including women and children, do you want me to go on. Like Icegas, you want to be blind to the past and what we did. Oh and have a word with the Brits abroad who are immigrants but like to be called expats as it doesn't sound so bad. Have a word about how they demand fish and chips, 'English' breakfast, pubs, and getting pi$$ed up on a Saturday night. What about the locals culture and language that Brits abroad ignore? Like Icegas you want to be blind to the past. As for current immigration, don't blame those who come, blame the government and business people who want them, and also blame the large percentage of white Brits who don't want to work nor do the jobs that are beneath them. If it hadn't been for the Windrush generation and others this country would have struggled to recover after the last war. The point you missed about WTC was that many who own vast swathes of the UK now had families who were part of the conquest and are only rich because of that not because of their own labours. That vast inequality and the power they retain keeps the likes of the poor Brits in their place, not Johnny Forriner! We had this debate on here a couple of years ago. I was labelled a traitor, someone who hates this country, just for pointing out the facts of history. Basel even advocated burning books that held views contrary to his (blinkered) views. History is a matter of record, however how it has been taught leaves a lot to be desired. For some I can only conclude it has not been taught at all. As for cause and effect, well you could throw a bucket of water over some and they would still not be able too identify why they are wet. That's the sad thing, that the attitude is - if you aren't with us, you are against us and hate your country. Whereas they couldn't be farther from the truth. None so blind as those who will not see.... Anyway that's me signing off for a holiday with the ones I love, oh and the wife..... Take care all.
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Post by baselswh on Aug 21, 2024 9:19:38 GMT
Glad you recognise the "good bits". Are you genuinely upset about how William the Conqueror went about things,1066! Over a thousand years ago! Would that justify millions of English legally and illegally moving to/invading France?(I see the relationship between France and Islam is all going swimmingly .) It was still centuries before the Manchester Guardian began to teach us better,backed by slave trade cash.My point being it was a long time a go and things were clearly done differently then. There is absolutely no justification for mass uncontrolled immigration,none. It's ridiculous to claim we owe them, so they are entitled to invade England and bring their anti free,anti British dangerous religion with them. The attempted destruction of peoples identity,their shared past and nation is disgusting.Globalism.All for what?Immigrant anti British resentment, along with middle class, virtue signalling weird guilt ,demanding we all feel it.Feel what?Our white guilt!Our shame of a history that when given a balanced view,is fascinating and fantastic. We are who we are because of our past. Those quite likely being placed behind terrorists in the housing queue have every right to feel exasperated.They no doubt have family that fought and possibly died for GB. 20 odd years of voting for bulls**tting Governments,that have repeatedly told them yes,we hear your concerns on immigration and we'll sort it it.Then nothing.It gets worse. Where's their voice? Stolen and used by sussessive Conservative and Labour Government liars. The attempted destruction of peoples identity, their shared past and nation is disgusting. And what did we do to the cultures of lands we invaded? The church tried to convert them all, tried to wipe away their traditions, made them dress correctly, we imposed our laws, mined their lands, found a few jewels here and there, stuck them in concentration camps in South Africa including women and children, do you want me to go on. Like Icegas, you want to be blind to the past and what we did. Oh and have a word with the Brits abroad who are immigrants but like to be called expats as it doesn't sound so bad. Have a word about how they demand fish and chips, 'English' breakfast, pubs, and getting pi$$ed up on a Saturday night. What about the locals culture and language that Brits abroad ignore? Like Icegas you want to be blind to the past. As for current immigration, don't blame those who come, blame the government and business people who want them, and also blame the large percentage of white Brits who don't want to work nor do the jobs that are beneath them. If it hadn't been for the Windrush generation and others this country would have struggled to recover after the last war. The point you missed about WTC was that many who own vast swathes of the UK now had families who were part of the conquest and are only rich because of that not because of their own labours. That vast inequality and the power they retain keeps the likes of the poor Brits in their place, not Johnny Forriner! I'm working Chesh,so yes,please carry on with the bad bits of the British Empire. I read an estimate of 100,000,000 killed one way or another as a result of our Empire. I don't know about Ice ( I imagine he cares about history),but I care about history,although i could'nt give a monkeys about white guilt,the slave trade etc.It was'nt me,I was'nt even born.Etc.
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baldrick
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Post by baldrick on Aug 21, 2024 9:33:13 GMT
The attempted destruction of peoples identity, their shared past and nation is disgusting. And what did we do to the cultures of lands we invaded? The church tried to convert them all, tried to wipe away their traditions, made them dress correctly, we imposed our laws, mined their lands, found a few jewels here and there, stuck them in concentration camps in South Africa including women and children, do you want me to go on. Like Icegas, you want to be blind to the past and what we did. Oh and have a word with the Brits abroad who are immigrants but like to be called expats as it doesn't sound so bad. Have a word about how they demand fish and chips, 'English' breakfast, pubs, and getting pi$$ed up on a Saturday night. What about the locals culture and language that Brits abroad ignore? Like Icegas you want to be blind to the past. As for current immigration, don't blame those who come, blame the government and business people who want them, and also blame the large percentage of white Brits who don't want to work nor do the jobs that are beneath them. If it hadn't been for the Windrush generation and others this country would have struggled to recover after the last war. The point you missed about WTC was that many who own vast swathes of the UK now had families who were part of the conquest and are only rich because of that not because of their own labours. That vast inequality and the power they retain keeps the likes of the poor Brits in their place, not Johnny Forriner! I'm working Chesh,so yes,please carry on with the bad bits of the British Empire. I read an estimate of 100,000,000 killed one way or another as a result of our Empire. I don't know about Ice ( I imagine he cares about history),but I care about history,although i could'nt give a monkeys about white guilt,the slave trade etc.It was'nt me,I was'nt even born.Etc. Wasn't born, but you've put an artificial date of native Britons. Surely if that's the case then you can't be selective over that too. We have to take the good with the bad, we must stop being selective with history. That goes both ways. Otherwise we won't learn.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,591
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Post by oldie on Aug 21, 2024 9:44:12 GMT
We had this debate on here a couple of years ago. I was labelled a traitor, someone who hates this country, just for pointing out the facts of history. Basel even advocated burning books that held views contrary to his (blinkered) views. History is a matter of record, however how it has been taught leaves a lot to be desired. For some I can only conclude it has not been taught at all. As for cause and effect, well you could throw a bucket of water over some and they would still not be able too identify why they are wet. Not so much how it's taught, more whether it's taught at all and definitely how it's (mis)remembered. Partly thanks to Hollywood oversimplifying. How many think Braveheart was a biopic? They couldn't even get the execution scene right. Is that the debate over David Olusoga and the Battle of the Somme casualty list? From memory the YouTuber quoted had a rather dislike for people of a certain persuasion. "Is that the debate over David Olusoga and the Battle of the Somme casualty list? From memory the YouTuber quoted had a rather dislike for people of a certain persuasion." Yes, and a little matter over light bulbs. Mind you he, amongst one or two others, contended our invasion and occupation of India was glorious and that the people's of that sub continent really appreciated our presence. 😱😱
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Post by lostinspace on Aug 21, 2024 10:29:30 GMT
Not so much how it's taught, more whether it's taught at all and definitely how it's (mis)remembered. Partly thanks to Hollywood oversimplifying. How many think Braveheart was a biopic? They couldn't even get the execution scene right. Is that the debate over David Olusoga and the Battle of the Somme casualty list? From memory the YouTuber quoted had a rather dislike for people of a certain persuasion. "Is that the debate over David Olusoga and the Battle of the Somme casualty list? From memory the YouTuber quoted had a rather dislike for people of a certain persuasion." Yes, and a little matter over light bulbs. Mind you he, amongst one or two others, contended our invasion and occupation of India was glorious and that the people's of that sub continent really appreciated our presence. 😱😱 So and IF... the British Empire ,as it was, had not "taken over" India.. do you think any other nation of size would have done and helped create the country it is today?.....History is a wonderful thing,but sometimes it doesn't suit some...... the only thing about it is that you can't change it ...but there are plenty that think they can
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Post by baselswh on Aug 21, 2024 10:49:59 GMT
I'm working Chesh,so yes,please carry on with the bad bits of the British Empire. I read an estimate of 100,000,000 killed one way or another as a result of our Empire. I don't know about Ice ( I imagine he cares about history),but I care about history,although i could'nt give a monkeys about white guilt,the slave trade etc.It was'nt me,I was'nt even born.Etc. Wasn't born, but you've put an artificial date of native Britons. Surely if that's the case then you can't be selective over that too. We have to take the good with the bad, we must stop being selective with history. That goes both ways. Otherwise we won't learn. I don't know what mean by "artificial date of native Britons " Baldrick,but I'm all for all history being told. The priorities of history too.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,591
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Post by oldie on Aug 21, 2024 10:50:05 GMT
"Is that the debate over David Olusoga and the Battle of the Somme casualty list? From memory the YouTuber quoted had a rather dislike for people of a certain persuasion." Yes, and a little matter over light bulbs. Mind you he, amongst one or two others, contended our invasion and occupation of India was glorious and that the people's of that sub continent really appreciated our presence. 😱😱 So and IF... the British Empire ,as it was, had not "taken over" India.. do you think any other nation of size would have done and helped create the country it is today?.....History is a wonderful thing,but sometimes it doesn't suit some...... the only thing about it is that you can't change it ...but there are plenty that think they can That's not the question
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Post by baselswh on Aug 21, 2024 10:56:37 GMT
The attempted destruction of peoples identity, their shared past and nation is disgusting. And what did we do to the cultures of lands we invaded? The church tried to convert them all, tried to wipe away their traditions, made them dress correctly, we imposed our laws, mined their lands, found a few jewels here and there, stuck them in concentration camps in South Africa including women and children, do you want me to go on. Like Icegas, you want to be blind to the past and what we did. Oh and have a word with the Brits abroad who are immigrants but like to be called expats as it doesn't sound so bad. Have a word about how they demand fish and chips, 'English' breakfast, pubs, and getting pi$$ed up on a Saturday night. What about the locals culture and language that Brits abroad ignore? Like Icegas you want to be blind to the past. As for current immigration, don't blame those who come, blame the government and business people who want them, and also blame the large percentage of white Brits who don't want to work nor do the jobs that are beneath them. If it hadn't been for the Windrush generation and others this country would have struggled to recover after the last war. The point you missed about WTC was that many who own vast swathes of the UK now had families who were part of the conquest and are only rich because of that not because of their own labours. That vast inequality and the power they retain keeps the likes of the poor Brits in their place, not Johnny Forriner! We had this debate on here a couple of years ago. I was labelled a traitor, someone who hates this country, just for pointing out the facts of history. Basel even advocated burning books that held views contrary to his (blinkered) views. History is a matter of record, however how it has been taught leaves a lot to be desired. For some I can only conclude it has not been taught at all. As for cause and effect, well you could throw a bucket of water over some and they would still not be able too identify why they are wet. Oh yeh,whatshisname,first class cricketer, bloody awful historian.Yep,rubbish he wrote should be taken off the shelves.Absolute drivel.He jumped on the BLM bandwagon.
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