Delsy
Joined: October 2019
Posts: 327
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Post by Delsy on Jun 17, 2021 7:28:51 GMT
Switzerland looked very poor.
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Post by lostinspace on Jun 17, 2021 9:02:56 GMT
Switzerland looked very poor. Says a lot about the Welsh effort against them !!
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topman
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 187
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Post by topman on Jun 17, 2021 9:23:37 GMT
I would say rather than being the incident that triggered it, it was the final straw of many years of incidents. You just have to look at what's been happening recently, with racist comments to players on social media, like Marcus Rashford, and closer to home Mark Little, to see it is still very much relevant right now. If you're starting to get fed up with a show of solidarity for just 5 seconds of time, I find that rather sad KP. Please tell me what it is actually doing, other than virtue signalling ? If UEFA said we are all going to do this then I’d understand it more but I just see it as yet another thing that actually achieves nothing. I could tell you about the racism I had and as a white man but I don’t let it define me nor my life. We have the kick it out campaign and now respect campaign. If the authorities and stewards policed the rules of this properly then many more would learn that there can be absolutely no racist chants nor even discussion, even if in hushed tones. We really should be kicking it out and anyone that is heard talking in that manner. I can’t do anything that you find my view sad but , as I have said, please tell me what taking the knee has actually achieved ? The gesture comes out of a book which later got made into the TV programme, game of thrones. The only thing it’s achieved, to date, is to have large groups of fans boo. If booing is seen as a success then they have at least achieved that The issue here is simply the misalignment by virtually every corporate body and far too many individuals by attaching themselves to the political movement of BLM and clearly not even bothering to check out the organisation Their aims are at odds with the vast majority of people de fund the police legalise drugs anti capitalist The movement seems to be mired in use of funds collected - the leader in America has a recently acquired property portfolio! Floyd shouldnt have died in that manner but not a lot of coverage of his past criminal record The cop involved like many in USA is a nut case If the established kick it out campaign is due a 'revival' then rename etc but DONT stupidly jump into bed with political movement of dubious quality!! That is why people boo taking the knee not because they are racist!
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bluetornados
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 12,630
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Post by bluetornados on Jun 17, 2021 10:02:08 GMT
Today's Games Are:
Ukraine v North Macedonia - 2pm
Denmark v Belgium - 5pm
Belgium intend to kick the ball out of play in the 10th minute of their game with Denmark to take part in a minute's applause for Christian Eriksen. Danish fans are planning the applause as a show of support. "We'll put the ball into touch to applaud," said striker Romelu Lukaku, a team-mate of Eriksen at Inter Milan. "Several of our players have played with him. But tomorrow we'll be there to win the game, which promises to be difficult." The timing of the tribute has been chosen because Eriksen wears the number 10 shirt for Denmark.
Holland v Austria - 8pm
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Post by The Concept on Jun 17, 2021 15:50:07 GMT
Please tell me what it is actually doing, other than virtue signalling ? If UEFA said we are all going to do this then I’d understand it more but I just see it as yet another thing that actually achieves nothing. I could tell you about the racism I had and as a white man but I don’t let it define me nor my life. We have the kick it out campaign and now respect campaign. If the authorities and stewards policed the rules of this properly then many more would learn that there can be absolutely no racist chants nor even discussion, even if in hushed tones. We really should be kicking it out and anyone that is heard talking in that manner. I can’t do anything that you find my view sad but , as I have said, please tell me what taking the knee has actually achieved ? The gesture comes out of a book which later got made into the TV programme, game of thrones. The only thing it’s achieved, to date, is to have large groups of fans boo. If booing is seen as a success then they have at least achieved that The issue here is simply the misalignment by virtually every corporate body and far too many individuals by attaching themselves to the political movement of BLM and clearly not even bothering to check out the organisation Their aims are at odds with the vast majority of people de fund the police legalise drugs anti capitalist The movement seems to be mired in use of funds collected - the leader in America has a recently acquired property portfolio! Floyd shouldnt have died in that manner but not a lot of coverage of his past criminal record The cop involved like many in USA is a nut case If the established kick it out campaign is due a 'revival' then rename etc but DONT stupidly jump into bed with political movement of dubious quality!! That is why people boo taking the knee not because they are racist! No, the issue here is people spuriously linking players taking the knee with an apparent political movement. I'd wager if you asked all the players who do it that you'd struggle to find one who gives a flying wotsit about a political movement.
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topman
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 187
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Post by topman on Jun 18, 2021 7:53:14 GMT
So BLM is not a political movement then according to you? ('apparent') The way in which matters have been handled is I would suggest creating more distancing NOT unity to improve matters?
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Post by The Concept on Jun 18, 2021 10:20:22 GMT
So BLM is not a political movement then according to you? ('apparent') The way in which matters have been handled is I would suggest creating more distancing NOT unity to improve matters? Here are examples of "The way in which matters have been handled ..." by England Team and the FA: www.thefa.com/news/2021/jun/12/a-message-to-england-supporters-20210611 www.thefa.com/news/2021/jun/17/20210717-statement-england-scotlandHow is this distancing? How is this not trying to achieve unity to improve matters (they've even used the word 'unite' in the title) ? Quite frankly it should be pretty obvious why they are doing it - they shouldn't even have to bring out statements like these. The only ones I would question the way they are handling matters are those who seek to link the players actions with a political movement. Which part of all this don't you understand? /photo/1
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bluetornados
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 12,630
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Post by bluetornados on Jun 18, 2021 12:45:05 GMT
I wonder what games are to be played today, oh yes, it's the big one:
Sweden v Slovakia - 2pm
Croatia v Czech Rep - 5pm
England v Scotland - 8pm
England and Scotland meet in a major men's tournament for the first time in 25 years at Wembley in a match with huge implications for both nations' Euro 2020 hopes.
Gareth Southgate's England will qualify for the knockout stage with a win, while Scotland are seeking to keep their hopes of progressing alive.
England beat Croatia 1-0 in their Group D opener on Sunday.
Steve Clarke's Scotland were beaten 2-0 by the Czech Republic a day later.
There will be a maximum of 22,500 fans at Wembley for the 20:00 BST kick-off - 25% of its capacity - to witness the 115th meeting between England and Scotland, and their 100th in a competitive fixture.
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topman
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 187
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Post by topman on Jun 18, 2021 15:28:04 GMT
Thank you for all the links from the F A etc didn't need to read because frankly they are a joke of a organisation on most matters
The point I was making if you have read my previous thread was that no one with any sense should have aligned themselves that closely with BLM given its Marxist views
What the FA and far too many corporate bodies, central and local government should have done was to create a different title to BLM therefore ensuring the issue of racism was highlighted but under different 'name' or re branded kick it out?
I don't want to see any Rovers player taking the knee because of the far too direct connection to the political organisation of BLM
That doesn't make me a racist just a unwillingness to accept a poorly thought out process
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bluetornados
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 12,630
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Post by bluetornados on Jun 18, 2021 23:21:26 GMT
England were so poor tonight, should have been 2-2 at best for us, lots of boos and quite rightly so.
In 115 games there have only been 4 x 0-0 draws, the 1st and last being two of them.
We need a draw v Czech for us to finish 2nd and the better route in the round of 16.
Group D winners play F 2nd which are either France, Portugal or Germany.
Group D 2nd play E 2nd which are either Sweden, Poland or Slovakia - Spain should be 1st.
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towngas
Joined: February 2021
Posts: 566
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Post by towngas on Jun 19, 2021 7:09:14 GMT
Thank you for all the links from the F A etc didn't need to read because frankly they are a joke of a organisation on most matters The point I was making if you have read my previous thread was that no one with any sense should have aligned themselves that closely with BLM given its Marxist views What the FA and far too many corporate bodies, central and local government should have done was to create a different title to BLM therefore ensuring the issue of racism was highlighted but under different 'name' or re branded kick it out? I don't want to see any Rovers player taking the knee because of the far too direct connection to the political organisation of BLM That doesn't make me a racist just a unwillingness to accept a poorly thought out process 100% agree with you, and Southgate is the ultimate Woke frontman for it all. WTF was with that flasher Mac he was wearing last night? He looked like he should have been hiding in the bushes with his pockets stuffed with sweets and trousers that are cut off ABOVE the knee and held up with string. Embarrassing
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towngas
Joined: February 2021
Posts: 566
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Post by towngas on Jun 19, 2021 7:13:38 GMT
The issue here is simply the misalignment by virtually every corporate body and far too many individuals by attaching themselves to the political movement of BLM and clearly not even bothering to check out the organisation Their aims are at odds with the vast majority of people de fund the police legalise drugs anti capitalist The movement seems to be mired in use of funds collected - the leader in America has a recently acquired property portfolio! Floyd shouldnt have died in that manner but not a lot of coverage of his past criminal record The cop involved like many in USA is a nut case If the established kick it out campaign is due a 'revival' then rename etc but DONT stupidly jump into bed with political movement of dubious quality!! That is why people boo taking the knee not because they are racist! No, the issue here is people spuriously linking players taking the knee with an apparent political movement. I'd wager if you asked all the players who do it that you'd struggle to find one who gives a flying wotsit about a political movement. Id wager the players don't really give a flying one for the claimed reason for kneeling either, they're just doing what they're told because they're frightened of the consequences if they don't. Freedom of speech? yeah right. As long as the woke left approve.
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,166
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Post by Cheshiregas on Jun 19, 2021 8:48:09 GMT
No, the issue here is people spuriously linking players taking the knee with an apparent political movement. I'd wager if you asked all the players who do it that you'd struggle to find one who gives a flying wotsit about a political movement. Id wager the players don't really give a flying one for the claimed reason for kneeling either, they're just doing what they're told because they're frightened of the consequences if they don't. Freedom of speech? yeah right. As long as the woke left approve. How do you know for certain that the players don't want to take the knee? Have you spoken to a single player privately about what they believe? No I thought not. Interesting that the term 'woke' gets thrown around by white men as an insult. So its woke to care about equality, its woke to care about black people being looked down upon in society, so it's woke to care about people being rejected or belittled in society or losing jobs or being underpaid simply because of their skin ..... well I'll take being called woke, because I care about the need for equality in society. And if football can support people who get called piccaninis or letter boxes by a Prime Minister who has to be embarrassed by a black footballer to giving free school meals to children of all colours then fair play to the players. And if a player getting down on one knee so easily offends you then you need to grow some. As for taking the politics out of football. What about the England fans who sing - Ten German bombers Two world wars and one world cup F*** the IRA and many more? Or are you happy for England fans to sing songs like that? 10 seconds to bend a knee and you blow a gasket, really? There is far more in the world to get your knickers in a twist about. And as for free speech? Well you're on here shouting the odds about it and no ones putting you in a concentration camp or prison are they?
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warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,455
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Post by warehamgas on Jun 19, 2021 8:54:02 GMT
Interesting reads above. I don’t involve myself in political threads, nothing to be gained and no one cares a jot about what I think. But, George Floyd did have a criminal record and BLM might be a political organisation that we don’t care for but the main point as far as I’m concerned is: George Floyd was murdered by a policemen because he was black. Had he been white he probably wouldn’t have died. It was the colour of his skin that caused his death and that is wrong. If the England players wish to show their support for black people the world over I’m relaxed about it. UTG!
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2021 9:25:50 GMT
Interesting reads above. I don’t involve myself in political threads, nothing to be gained and no one cares a jot about what I think. But, George Floyd did have a criminal record and BLM might be a political organisation that we don’t care for but the main point as far as I’m concerned is: George Floyd was murdered by a policemen because he was black. Had he been white he probably wouldn’t have died. It was the colour of his skin that caused his death and that is wrong. If the England players wish to show their support for black people the world over I’m relaxed about it. UTG! You've fallen in to a bit of a trap here wareham. A lot of what you write is correct, but Floyd wasn't treated any differently because of his skin colour. Without using Google can you, or a single person on this forum tell me if they are familiar with the name Tony Timpa? Nobody will be. He was a white American who died in very similar circumstances to Floyd, the main difference being that before contact with Police he contacted 911 and told them that he had stopped taking his medication and had taken other drugs. He was still knelt on until he stopped breathing and died whilst 3 officers laughed and joked between themselves. He was shouting that he couldn't breath and that they were killing him. The footage is on line and easy to find if you want to see it. American Police brutality appears to be colour blind, they'll attack, assault, shoot and kill anybody. Just ask the family of Justine Damond, a white Australian Lady who phoned 911 to report a disturbance in the rear ally behind her Minneapolis home, officers arrived, she went out to see them, wearing her pyjamas, and was fatally shot, by a black officer. Neither of those were even mentioned on the news here. I'm not even suggesting that they are any more of less tragic than each and every black life lost to Police brutality, but America has a serious problem with members of the public, of all colours, interacting with law enforcement and not surviving the experience. Anyway, back on topic. Well done Scotland, I see Southgate just stood there with his mouth gaping wide open and no idea what to do when he came up against a team who were less talented but fully committed.
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 1,504
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Post by trymer on Jun 19, 2021 9:36:49 GMT
No, the issue here is people spuriously linking players taking the knee with an apparent political movement. I'd wager if you asked all the players who do it that you'd struggle to find one who gives a flying wotsit about a political movement. Id wager the players don't really give a flying one for the claimed reason for kneeling either, they're just doing what they're told because they're frightened of the consequences if they don't. Freedom of speech? yeah right. As long as the woke left approve. I think that you are right,I doubt that the 1930s England players who gave the right arm salute before matches were all National Socialists,again they just did what they were told to do.
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crater
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,444
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Post by crater on Jun 19, 2021 12:45:09 GMT
Very little created by England but good to get that game done and out of the way... A draw was a fair result but why didn't VAR look again at the penalty claim when Robertson brought down Sterling? Looked a nailed on penalty to me. Somehow I suspect if that had been the other way around, the media would have banged on about it but nothing said as it was a decision against England
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,166
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Post by Cheshiregas on Jun 19, 2021 13:00:50 GMT
England teams in my view differ from many other teams in that we play to a formation and/or strategy and stick to it regardless unless told otherwise. This nearly always stifles flair and the ability to do something different. We don't allow our players to do the unexpected like the Ronaldo's or Bale's of this world. Sterling has had some blistering form this season but seemed hamstrung by the pattern but in fairness also didn't get the ball from a boring, slow and tedious build up which allowed Scotland ample time to get men behind the ball. I genuinely expected more from England, not that I am deluded enough to think they can win the tournament, but playing like that last night will worry no one.
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warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,455
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Post by warehamgas on Jun 19, 2021 13:23:03 GMT
Interesting reads above. I don’t involve myself in political threads, nothing to be gained and no one cares a jot about what I think. But, George Floyd did have a criminal record and BLM might be a political organisation that we don’t care for but the main point as far as I’m concerned is: George Floyd was murdered by a policemen because he was black. Had he been white he probably wouldn’t have died. It was the colour of his skin that caused his death and that is wrong. If the England players wish to show their support for black people the world over I’m relaxed about it. UTG! You've fallen in to a bit of a trap here wareham. A lot of what you write is correct, but Floyd wasn't treated any differently because of his skin colour. Without using Google can you, or a single person on this forum tell me if they are familiar with the name Tony Timpa? Nobody will be. He was a white American who died in very similar circumstances to Floyd, the main difference being that before contact with Police he contacted 911 and told them that he had stopped taking his medication and had taken other drugs. He was still knelt on until he stopped breathing and died whilst 3 officers laughed and joked between themselves. He was shouting that he couldn't breath and that they were killing him. The footage is on line and easy to find if you want to see it. American Police brutality appears to be colour blind, they'll attack, assault, shoot and kill anybody. Just ask the family of Justine Damond, a white Australian Lady who phoned 911 to report a disturbance in the rear ally behind her Minneapolis home, officers arrived, she went out to see them, wearing her pyjamas, and was fatally shot, by a black officer. Neither of those were even mentioned on the news here. I'm not even suggesting that they are any more of less tragic than each and every black life lost to Police brutality, but America has a serious problem with members of the public, of all colours, interacting with law enforcement and not surviving the experience. Anyway, back on topic. Well done Scotland, I see Southgate just stood there with his mouth gaping wide open and no idea what to do when he came up against a team who were less talented but fully committed. Thank you for your concern about falling into a trap! I don’t think I have. I don’t doubt that the examples you put forward are correct and I’m sure you’re right about American Police brutality. And your general points regarding the relationship between members of the public and American law enforcement seems to me to be an accurate assessment of the larger problem. But in this individual case from looking at what happened and the evidence presented at trial I believe what I said is true, had he not been black he may not have died. And if England footballers wish to show their support they have the right to do so. I knew I shouldn’t comment on something political, I suspect I agree with much of what you’ve said and that our views would not be wildly different. This is indeed an imperfect world where we would end up arguing about the minutiae of what is happening with someone you agree with over most things, politically. And, back to the football, can’t disagree with what you’ve said. But, Scotland looked as if the match was more important to them than it was to the England players. I suspect that England will have forgotten about it in a couple of weeks time whilst, especially if Scotland don’t qualify, they will dine out on the result for a couple of years. But yes, Southgate was out-foxed by Steve Clarke. Perhaps if someone told Sterling at half time that it was alright to run instead of just walk or tell our midfield they could try and pass it through the Scottish defence rather than pass it sideways it might have been different. Hey ho, Rovers fixtures are out next week, we’ll have something different to moan about! UTG!
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warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,455
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Post by warehamgas on Jun 19, 2021 13:26:38 GMT
Very little created by England but good to get that game done and out of the way... A draw was a fair result but why didn't VAR look again at the penalty claim when Robertson brought down Sterling? Looked a nailed on penalty to me. Somehow I suspect if that had been the other way around, the media would have banged on about it but nothing said as it was a decision against England Yes, you are correct about the penalty imo. No different than the penalty Austria gave away on the previous evening when Alabi stepped on a players foot. It was a penalty but that would have been a tad unfair on Scotland. But where’s VAR when you want it! 😉 UTG!
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