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Post by alftupper on Jul 12, 2021 16:01:48 GMT
I'd support the FA if they chose to boycott the Quatar WC. A host nation that was 'chosen" by blatant bribery. But they won't. It's a moot point anyway. The FA is there to make money, not take a moral stand against an appalling homophobic regime who treat women as second class citizens. I really don't want to alarm you, but that could have been written by a Guardian reader That`s fine. I agree with what eppinggas wrote, and if that makes me akin to a Guardian reader, I care not one whit. They can`t be wrong about everything.
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crater
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,444
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Post by crater on Jul 12, 2021 16:49:03 GMT
Complaining about racism and discrimination? Really, you think IW is 'complaining'? Out of interest, did you watch any of the Russia 2018 World Cup on the telly? Ok. So IW isn`t complaining. What word would you use? I did watch some of the last World Cup on the telly. While a percentage of Russian people still take a robustly 1950`s type view of homosexuality, I think that`s vastly different to a country who treat homosexuals as second class citizens, as part of government policy. Would you still want the next World Cup to be played in a country whose stated policy was to treat people of colour, the same way that Qatar treats homosexuals?
Never once said I wanted Qatar to host the world cup
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warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,455
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Post by warehamgas on Jul 12, 2021 18:31:58 GMT
in 1966 i was sat along my mum as England won that day..........tonight as England won through to the final, I again was sat alongside my mum ,hugging her shoulders ... this time as she passed slowly and peacefully away,after so much suffering in her last few weeks on this Earth ..................... god bless mum and thank you for everything Just seen this lostinspace. So sorry to hear that, after a few days I hope all’s as well with you as possible. Sounds like lots of good memories and love and you can’t buy that stuff. Condolences to you and your family.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2021 19:07:08 GMT
It's all very strange this obsession with people hating their own country.
I don't recall anybody having any kind of mini-meltdown when God Save The Queen was jeered by the Irish,
If anybody is going to be silly and say that was just a one off I'll find examples of other countries doing it.
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,166
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Post by Cheshiregas on Jul 13, 2021 8:02:00 GMT
Funny how I have seen a lot of so called England supporters on social media justifying the booing by saying other nations do it to us.
So booing the anthem is OK because other countries do it and no one moans, OK So ripping into your own team's black players is OK because other countries do it. So a good bit of thuggery is OK because other countries do it. So fighting on the streets is OK because other countries do it. So mocking crying children is OK because other countries do it.
Got you. See where you are coming from.
And there was me thinking we were and should be better than that in our so called world beating civilised society. I am obviously mistaken.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,223
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Post by eppinggas on Jul 13, 2021 9:10:51 GMT
Funny how I have seen a lot of so called England supporters on social media justifying the booing by saying other nations do it to us. So booing the anthem is OK because other countries do it and no one moans, OK So ripping into your own team's black players is OK because other countries do it. So a good bit of thuggery is OK because other countries do it. So fighting on the streets is OK because other countries do it. So mocking crying children is OK because other countries do it. Got you. See where you are coming from. And there was me thinking we were and should be better than that in our so called world beating civilised society. I am obviously mistaken. I broadly agree with all 5 points you make Chesh. There is no excuse for bad behaviour. I stopped watching the England games in pubs because I was disgusted by the ritual booing of another nations national anthem. However it has to be said that our national anthem is ritually booed by other nations. But just because they are rude to us, does not mean we can be rude back. Sadly we don't rise above it. Racism. Seems OK to abuse the English. My wife follows the Eurovision fb page (don't ask) - she's been appalled by the comments made about the English. Seems we're 'fair game'. I was chatting to a friend of mine in Spain who said the locals 'hated us' - and this was to do with us leaving the EU. Racism. Kick it Out. Unless you are abusing the English. In which case, that's fine. I will take issue with your last point though. There seems to be a pre-occupation with some people that the UK is institutionally racist / unfair / homophobic / intolerant / has poor wealth distribution etc etc etc. Google it. Find a credible source that backs up that. Here's my stab: escholarship.org/uc/item/48t810tkWe're actually pretty tolerant. Very inclusive. Ethnically diverse. A place where people from all over the world want to live. I am very proud to be English. Like all nations, we have idiots that let us down.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,223
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Post by eppinggas on Jul 13, 2021 9:22:57 GMT
So I make UK as the 7th most inclusive nation out of the 132 nations present in that report. We are doing very well. We should still aim to do better.
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 1,504
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Post by trymer on Jul 13, 2021 11:05:19 GMT
Watching some of the videos that blokes at work showed me today and reading the news online I do wonder how a lot of people view English football fans after this tournament. Shining lasers at players,booing anthems,breaking into the stadium,assaulting Police and stewards,threatening Italian fans (female) in the stadium,racist abuse of England players,fans fighting amongst themselves and Rashfords mural vandalised (thats the 'highlights'). Things are supposed to have moved on since the 'bad old days' when a minority fought with other hooligans, now it seems that its not a minority and that anyone is fair game and that bad behavior is acceptable on match days. I don't get out much these days (for obvious reasons), but when I used to, social or job related, I would avoid mentioning being a football fan, if at all possible. I can understand that,the problem is that its usually only negative things that get reported and thats all that people have to inform them.
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,166
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Post by Cheshiregas on Jul 13, 2021 11:52:12 GMT
Seems OK to abuse the English. My wife follows the Eurovision fb page (don't ask) - she's been appalled by the comments made about the English. Seems we're 'fair game'. I was chatting to a friend of mine in Spain who said the locals 'hated us' - and this was to do with us leaving the EU. Racism. Kick it Out. Unless you are abusing the English. In which case, that's fine. I will take issue with your last point though. There seems to be a pre-occupation with some people that the UK is institutionally racist / unfair / homophobic / intolerant / has poor wealth distribution etc etc etc. Google it. Find a credible source that backs up that. Here's my stab: escholarship.org/uc/item/48t810tkWe're actually pretty tolerant. Very inclusive. Ethnically diverse. A place where people from all over the world want to live. I am very proud to be English. Like all nations, we have idiots that let us down. I agree that many nations do abuse the English. In a lot of cases justifiably, notably foreign holiday destinations where they have grown tired of the boorish, drunken, loutish behaviour and I would say that happened long before we left the EU. I am sure we will get the arguments about happy to take our money etc but that doesn't excuse the arrogant, drunken Brits (for balance other nations are almost as bad). With regard to the pre-occupation with UK being institutionally racist up until 2015 having worked around most of Europe I would have argued that the UK was a lot better than many countries. However working in London I saw people were held back because of their background and made efforts to challenge that behaviour. Further in the last few years racists have been allowed free rein in the argument for 'free speech' but that comes with responsibility. When we have a PM who has been openly racist in his comments and views and a Home Secretary who promotes booing of a non-political gesture (as stated by the England camp in support of minority footballers) in so called freedom of speech and then shows faux outrage when minority footballers are booed and abused. We are a nation that for hundreds of years have taken refugees from war torn and repressive societies from the French Huguenots to Jewish children but now the same HS whose family benefitted from that generosity of acceptance wants them stopped from coming anywhere near us and sent to Ascension Island or sent back without challenge. I have always been proud of my nation but if that nation now tolerates the abuse of other countries, of black footballers, of another nations football loving children, etc just because other nations are said to do it then we have to ask ourselves some very pointed questions as to why we lower ourselves to that level in the name of football......
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2021 12:23:11 GMT
Funny how I have seen a lot of so called England supporters on social media justifying the booing by saying other nations do it to us. So booing the anthem is OK because other countries do it and no one moans, OK So ripping into your own team's black players is OK because other countries do it. So a good bit of thuggery is OK because other countries do it. So fighting on the streets is OK because other countries do it. So mocking crying children is OK because other countries do it. Got you. See where you are coming from. And there was me thinking we were and should be better than that in our so called world beating civilised society. I am obviously mistaken. If the bit about booing national anthems is directed at me then you've not understood the point. The thing is, there's always a small number of British people apparently desperate to stick the boot in to their own country whilst ignoring the fact that supporters from other countries act in the exact same way. Why are you surprised that you've found a full range of views, some normal, some strange, some deliberately provocative, some ignorant, literally a full spectrum of opinion on social media?
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Post by laughinggas on Jul 13, 2021 15:08:29 GMT
2 × wrong = right
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jul 13, 2021 20:36:30 GMT
Funny how I have seen a lot of so called England supporters on social media justifying the booing by saying other nations do it to us. So booing the anthem is OK because other countries do it and no one moans, OK So ripping into your own team's black players is OK because other countries do it. So a good bit of thuggery is OK because other countries do it. So fighting on the streets is OK because other countries do it. So mocking crying children is OK because other countries do it. Got you. See where you are coming from. And there was me thinking we were and should be better than that in our so called world beating civilised society. I am obviously mistaken. For the first time in my life I have felt ashamed of my heritage. The disgusting comments, on Polish Facebook sites had me trying to educate but I got such hatred that it sickened me and I’m ashamed of myself that I reacted too. This tournament should have , could have, been a huge springboard to better behaviour and an uplift in mood. I am now so fed up that I shall no longer be giving support when Poland play and England will have my sole support. One good thing, my father, who taught me to respect my country of birth, is not here to see the obscene comments and hate. I have to keep repeating not all are the same but, honestly, I am appalled at what I read. Disgusted of Kingswood. UTG and England
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,223
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Post by eppinggas on Jul 14, 2021 9:25:13 GMT
Seems OK to abuse the English. My wife follows the Eurovision fb page (don't ask) - she's been appalled by the comments made about the English. Seems we're 'fair game'. I was chatting to a friend of mine in Spain who said the locals 'hated us' - and this was to do with us leaving the EU. Racism. Kick it Out. Unless you are abusing the English. In which case, that's fine. I will take issue with your last point though. There seems to be a pre-occupation with some people that the UK is institutionally racist / unfair / homophobic / intolerant / has poor wealth distribution etc etc etc. Google it. Find a credible source that backs up that. Here's my stab: escholarship.org/uc/item/48t810tkWe're actually pretty tolerant. Very inclusive. Ethnically diverse. A place where people from all over the world want to live. I am very proud to be English. Like all nations, we have idiots that let us down. I agree that many nations do abuse the English. In a lot of cases justifiably, notably foreign holiday destinations where they have grown tired of the boorish, drunken, loutish behaviour and I would say that happened long before we left the EU. I am sure we will get the arguments about happy to take our money etc but that doesn't excuse the arrogant, drunken Brits (for balance other nations are almost as bad). With regard to the pre-occupation with UK being institutionally racist up until 2015 having worked around most of Europe I would have argued that the UK was a lot better than many countries. However working in London I saw people were held back because of their background and made efforts to challenge that behaviour. Further in the last few years racists have been allowed free rein in the argument for 'free speech' but that comes with responsibility. When we have a PM who has been openly racist in his comments and views and a Home Secretary who promotes booing of a non-political gesture (as stated by the England camp in support of minority footballers) in so called freedom of speech and then shows faux outrage when minority footballers are booed and abused. We are a nation that for hundreds of years have taken refugees from war torn and repressive societies from the French Huguenots to Jewish children but now the same HS whose family benefitted from that generosity of acceptance wants them stopped from coming anywhere near us and sent to Ascension Island or sent back without challenge. I have always been proud of my nation but if that nation now tolerates the abuse of other countries, of black footballers, of another nations football loving children, etc just because other nations are said to do it then we have to ask ourselves some very pointed questions as to why we lower ourselves to that level in the name of football...... Yup. Agree "Brits abroad" can be embarrassing. I spent my entire working life in London. It's like the league of nations. People who make money are rewarded. The colour of their skin/nationality is not an issue. As for comments on Boris, Priti Patel and immigration - then I think we're veering a bit off topic. The sub-section "General Politics" is open... for polite debate. I disagree with your last paragraph. As a nation we generally do NOT tolerate this behaviour. A small but vocal minority are an embarrassment to our country, I get it. I think the vast majority of the English are tolerant, decent people. I understand it's not a popular view to have. Ask kingswood Polak what real nasty racist abuse looks like. You're a young black disabled man - where you going to want to live - London or Krakow? Show me a credible source that disputes the conclusions of the following report. escholarship.org/uc/item/48t810tk
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2021 9:48:17 GMT
Funny how I have seen a lot of so called England supporters on social media justifying the booing by saying other nations do it to us. So booing the anthem is OK because other countries do it and no one moans, OK So ripping into your own team's black players is OK because other countries do it. So a good bit of thuggery is OK because other countries do it. So fighting on the streets is OK because other countries do it. So mocking crying children is OK because other countries do it. Got you. See where you are coming from. And there was me thinking we were and should be better than that in our so called world beating civilised society. I am obviously mistaken. For the first time in my life I have felt ashamed of my heritage. The disgusting comments, on Polish Facebook sites had me trying to educate but I got such hatred that it sickened me and I’m ashamed of myself that I reacted too. This tournament should have , could have, been a huge springboard to better behaviour and an uplift in mood. I am now so fed up that I shall no longer be giving support when Poland play and England will have my sole support. One good thing, my father, who taught me to respect my country of birth, is not here to see the obscene comments and hate. I have to keep repeating not all are the same but, honestly, I am appalled at what I read. Disgusted of Kingswood. UTG and England My view of Poland won't change KP. Regardless of what we were taught at school and by the silly war films, the reality is that without brave Polish pilots the Battle of Britain would have been lost, and the world we live in today could be very different. Anybody below maybe 40 years of age probably won't even have this as part of their world view, it'll be something that happened somewhere way back in history, but the freedom we enjoy today was hard won, and our wartime allies, including Poland, won that freedom every bit as much as us or the Americans did. Be proud of your heritage KP, I'm proud to be able to say that our countries stood shoulder to shoulder when it really mattered and will be grateful to Poland and the Polish people every single day of my life.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jul 14, 2021 13:45:40 GMT
For the first time in my life I have felt ashamed of my heritage. The disgusting comments, on Polish Facebook sites had me trying to educate but I got such hatred that it sickened me and I’m ashamed of myself that I reacted too. This tournament should have , could have, been a huge springboard to better behaviour and an uplift in mood. I am now so fed up that I shall no longer be giving support when Poland play and England will have my sole support. One good thing, my father, who taught me to respect my country of birth, is not here to see the obscene comments and hate. I have to keep repeating not all are the same but, honestly, I am appalled at what I read. Disgusted of Kingswood. UTG and England My view of Poland won't change KP. Regardless of what we were taught at school and by the silly war films, the reality is that without brave Polish pilots the Battle of Britain would have been lost, and the world we live in today could be very different. Anybody below maybe 40 years of age probably won't even have this as part of their world view, it'll be something that happened somewhere way back in history, but the freedom we enjoy today was hard won, and our wartime allies, including Poland, won that freedom every bit as much as us or the Americans did. Be proud of your heritage KP, I'm proud to be able to say that our countries stood shoulder to shoulder when it really mattered and will be grateful to Poland and the Polish people every single day of my life. You are absolutely right but what both shocked and hurt me is that these younger lot don’t even know their history. I tried, in a long post abd using my parents experiences, to educate, in the first instance but then the abuse started and much much worse than the England players have had. I then reacted, wrote a long list of freedoms and choice that they do not have in Poland , reported the outright racist posts and left I know I should not generalise but this was the majority of the group. These kinds of views really should not be allowed on the internet. I have not been fighting mad in over 20 years but I was, yesterday. These types should not be welcomed here.
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TaiwanGas
Paul Bannon
Tom Ramasuts Left Foot.
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,353
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Post by TaiwanGas on Jul 14, 2021 14:27:08 GMT
My view of Poland won't change KP. Regardless of what we were taught at school and by the silly war films, the reality is that without brave Polish pilots the Battle of Britain would have been lost, and the world we live in today could be very different. Anybody below maybe 40 years of age probably won't even have this as part of their world view, it'll be something that happened somewhere way back in history, but the freedom we enjoy today was hard won, and our wartime allies, including Poland, won that freedom every bit as much as us or the Americans did. Be proud of your heritage KP, I'm proud to be able to say that our countries stood shoulder to shoulder when it really mattered and will be grateful to Poland and the Polish people every single day of my life. You are absolutely right but what both shocked and hurt me is that these younger lot don’t even know their history. I tried, in a long post abd using my parents experiences, to educate, in the first instance but then the abuse started and much much worse than the England players have had. I then reacted, wrote a long list of freedoms and choice that they do not have in Poland , reported the outright racist posts and left I know I should not generalise but this was the majority of the group. These kinds of views really should not be allowed on the internet. I have not been fighting mad in over 20 years but I was, yesterday. These types should not be welcomed here. Times have changed KP, it's not just Poland that have these new young radical's, (us) the older generation see and do things much differently, but the younger generation want no part of it, or to learn from it, imo it is the same globally. I lived in Bishopston in my Youth and I was the only Englishman in a group of lads that met at school and continued to get together once we started work, five of us three Poles, an Italian and me, I cannot remember any incident regarding racism from this time, nothing!, only a great bunch of lads with many memories I hold dearly, Gasheads of course!.
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