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Reform
Jul 23, 2024 9:45:30 GMT
Post by Nobbygas on Jul 23, 2024 9:45:30 GMT
We could also go back to the original post that started this thread. Oldie's answer's are just his opinion, not fact. So, this thread was started on the basis of someone's "opinion", not fact. Was Oldie pulled up on this error Terry?
"Given that I appear to be the only one who thinks that Reform are a joke, given that nobody has articulated why they support them having said they do, other than because of their dislike for every other party, I thought I would have a look at their current published offer to voters.
It started badly and went downhill in a hurry.
Front Page "Let's make Great Britain Great"
I thought this was a spoof, but no.
This is their intro
"As a nation we have so much potential, so much that we should be optimistic about. We can make Britain great again. To do this, reform is essential in the way our country is run and managed, so it works properly for the people. In many areas, just the application of basic common sense would be a good start! The nation faces many challenges, but we can overcome them. To succeed, we need to do Brexit properly and save the Union by protecting Northern Ireland. We must grow our way out of the crisis, we cannot tax our way out of it. We must stand up for our core democratic values, our civil liberties, our right to free speech. Let’s celebrate our pride in being British: our amazing culture, our unbreakable communities, our incredible heritage. Let’s stop all the woke nonsense that is holding us back. Let’s have a proper immigration policy that works for our country and protects our borders. This means net zero immigration so we can train and support our own people. It means zero illegal immigration. Together, let’s make great things happen!"
😂😂
I was disappointed there wasn't a backing track of the Twickenham crowd sing "Jerusalem" Pure dog whistle Trumpian nonsense.
Then the economy
"1. Reform our Economy: To succeed faster growth is vital. Higher growth rates are the only way to better wages and more tax revenues that can be invested in better healthcare and other public services. Our bold economic vision frees up over 6 million people from paying Income Tax and frees up over 1.2 million small businesses and self-employed from paying Corporation Tax. We would also aim to remove a raft of other stifling taxes in a responsible, timely way. This will generate much faster growth than seen in recent decades. We must also stop wasting taxpayers’ money."
Right. So let me get this right. Slash tax revenues, cause huge increase in the PSBR, funded by who exactly? The bond markets will run a mile (remember Truss?). Or will they slash public services?
Allegedly not
"2. Reform our Public Sector: We must be ambitious, seeking faster, more efficient public services that work better for us all. For example, with health, we should demand zero waiting lists and we have a bold plan to achieve this vision. Our police need to focus on preventing crime and catching criminals. Our schools must educate our children properly to prepare them for a competitive, challenging world, whilst protecting them from age inappropriate sex education"
😂😂
I could go on, but you get the story. Ill considered populist nonsense, full of dog whistle rhetoric which will not stand up to challenge.
And yet some on here would actually vote to inflict this on the country. Unbelievable"
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Reform
Jul 23, 2024 9:39:32 GMT
Post by Nobbygas on Jul 23, 2024 9:39:32 GMT
Nobby Putin - Farage has said on a number of occasions that Putin is the leader he most admires, all documented; he has acted as an apologist for Putin saying that the growth of the EU forced his hand - sovereign countries applied of their own accord - and NATO expansion - only started expanding again after Russia invaded Ukraine. Clacton - Farage is not Prime Minister, he is an MP and should hold surgeries and visit his constituents. Farage has a German passport [so is also an EU Citizen and has access to all EU rights as such] if you want to be pedantic. Car crash Labour - obviously I do not have any statistics, and to even ask for them as part of your debate is really not the way to go is it. Really? I asked you to back up your quotes as you said ' Most people are concerned... ' nobody expects Labour to improve things' I just wondered how you felt that you could speak for 'most people' and that 'nobody' had expectations. Simple. Your opinion not facts. PS you do know that Lee Anderson and Nigel Farage are employees of GB News? I'm afraid Terry that you are taking the Farage quotes about Putin out of context. He is not an apologist for Putin, far from it. Just what are these "EU Rights"? My son has a British and German passport. What is the problem with that? I have friends who have Irish and British passports. I work with people who have Indian and German passports. Most of these forums are based on people's opinions. If we held conversations with our friends in the pub, and you were only allowed to talk using facts, it'll be a pretty short conversation. Opinions are what makes debate interesting.
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 23, 2024 6:45:33 GMT
In other immigration news....Here's to 84 million being wasted.
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 23, 2024 6:38:13 GMT
Lustin Dobre, the man arrested for arson of the bus at Harehills has had his case delayed as the police have been unable to find an interpreter to explain the charges to him in his own language.
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Reform
Jul 23, 2024 6:06:50 GMT
Post by Nobbygas on Jul 23, 2024 6:06:50 GMT
(1) What is hilarious is your constant attacks on Farage and Reform when they have so few MP's. Coming from nowhere, and the support they have generated has obviously got you rattled. (2) Most people are concerned over the possible upcoming car crash that is the Labour government. They have a huge majority with just over 9 million votes. Reform got 4 million votes and have a small amount of MP's. Reform are on the rise, the Tories are still in freefall. The next election will be interesting, especially as nobody expects Labour to improve things. (1) Farage and Reform get constant attacks because of their outpourings, such as the deputy saying he would leave boat people to drown; the fact that Farage lauds Putin; that they do a lot of shouting without any fact base evidence; that when they are challenged Richard Tice threatens to sue everyone, but never does; and the fact that they get a significantly disproportionate amount of air time when compared to the Liberal Democrats who have significantly more MPs, the Greens who have a similar amount, and the SNP - more MPs. They are also employed by GBNews to spout whatever they like. Farage has yet to hold a surgery in Clacton which he hasn't visited since Election Day, whereas all other parties' MPs are setting up offices and staffing them. Farage is also a hypocrite holding an EU passport, living in Brussels, whilst remonstrating against the EU and has no intention of living in or near his constituency. (2) Who do you mean by saying - Most people are concerned over the possible upcoming car crash that is the Labour government? and especially as nobody expects Labour to improve things. where are the statistics to back that up? Hello Terry, Farage does not laud Putin. He never has, and he never will. A lot of shouting without any fact based evidence? Just your opinion I'm afraid. Richard Tice threatens to sue everyone? New one on me. I don't think I've seen any of that. Disproportionate air time? Only because the MSM are transfixed with going after Reform, instead of scrutinizing the current government of the day. You can't blame Reform if the MSM follow them everywhere ie. Like Farage in the US. Every channel had a team/reporter following him! It's not his fault that the MSM cover his every move and utterance. Reform are not employed by GBNews. Farage does not hold an EU passport. Such a thing doesn't exist. What is wrong with having a residence in Brussels? Nobody has anything against the Europeans, nor Europe. The problem is with the political construct that is the EU! Don't you think it is a bit narrow minded to think that if someone is against the EU they should be against anything European? I'm anti-EU but I still work in Germany. Farage and his constituency? What do the top politicians do for their constituencies? What does Starmer do? He doesn't hold surgeries either, nor do many of the top politicians. They have a staff that covers these things for them. Why highlight this with Farage when it's the same for many other MP's? It's almost as if people are desperate too throw mud at Farage/Reform, yet they conveniently forget that the other main parties do exactly the same. How many MP's of other parties were 'parachuted' into their constituencies before the election? You know as well as I do that this is a common practice. So it's ok for Labour, Libdems and the Tories to do this, but bad if Reform do it? Car crash Labour - obviously I do not have any statistics, and to even ask for them as part of your debate is really not the way to go is it. Two policies spring to mind off the top of my head. They will never build 1.5 million homes in five years. This would mean something like 820 homes being completed every day. Two of the main housebuilders, Wimply and Barrett's, have just announced they are reducing the number of new builds in the next year due to "decreased demand". Plus, do the government really expect builders to build more affordable homes, which means a reduced unit profit for the builders? They expect the builders to increase production of new homes by 100% and accept reduced unit profit? That's not going to happen is it. Energy - Yep. Let's stop new drilling in the North Sea. They will also create a GB Energy company, that doesn't produce any energy, to provide cheap energy to the country. If the UK doesn't produce the energy it needs then it will have to be imported. There goes the energy security that we have all discovered since the beginning of the war in Ukraine, as strategically vital to the country. Plus, imported energy will always be more expensive than energy produced in the UK. Rent controls? It has been proven in the past, and most recently in Scotland, that rent controls do not work. They never have, and never will. I thought that lesson had been learnt years ago!
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Reform
Jul 23, 2024 5:40:13 GMT
Post by Nobbygas on Jul 23, 2024 5:40:13 GMT
What is hilarious is your constant attacks on Farage and Reform when they have so few MP's. Coming from nowhere, and the support they have generated has obviously got you rattled. Most people are concerned over the possible upcoming car crash that is the Labour government. They have a huge majority with just over 9 million votes. Reform got 4 million votes and have a small amount of MP's. Reform are on the rise, the Tories are still in freefall. The next election will be interesting, especially as nobody expects Labour to improve things. Rather than come after me personally, per Cheshire's request, you could prove my comments on Farage and the Reform Party wrong. Wow, can you please point out where in the post I "came after you personally"?
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 22, 2024 21:12:18 GMT
Oh christ, have we lost another promising rapper?
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 22, 2024 21:09:39 GMT
You're struggling Oldie. Just try to accept your criticism of the MP for Clacton on Sea was made too hastily,due to your quite demented hatred of the man and you're wrong. I realise you're still angry about losing the Brexit referendum and Nigels decision to stay and lead Reform to recent relitive success,but its clouding your judgement. Put that energy towards eg cheering on the Rovers. What. He said Harris was a black African. Hilarious What is hilarious is your constant attacks on Farage and Reform when they have so few MP's. Coming from nowhere, and the support they have generated has obviously got you rattled. Most people are concerned over the possible upcoming car crash that is the Labour government. They have a huge majority with just over 9 million votes. Reform got 4 million votes and have a small amount of MP's. Reform are on the rise, the Tories are still in freefall. The next election will be interesting, especially as nobody expects Labour to improve things.
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 22, 2024 20:58:21 GMT
Posters The moderators have received a number of messages recently relating to debate on this section of the forum, from various sides of the political spectrum. We have also been informed that a number of comments have been made about the moderators which we have not been party to or been able to respond to because we were not aware of them. We are now. We do not expect to be adored by the masses [that is tongue in cheek for the sensitive] but we do try our best to be fair. Please remember that moderators are allowed to have their own opinions as individuals. We have asked in the past and remind you again that debate should be civil and related to the post not the poster personally. Personal abuse will not be tolerated, and action will be taken if complaints are made that are adjudged to be justified. We note that a number of posters do not post or very rarely post about the football club which this forum is intended to be about. Further, simply answering a post by saying that the other posters views are 'bollox' and/or becoming personal about that poster are not debate, but childish insults, whether you believe them to be 'bollox' or not. Facts and counter arguments are justified but not abuse. One helpful interpretation of the idea of a debate is 'A debate is a formal discussion where people present opposing arguments on a specific topic. It often involves structured formats, such as those seen in public meetings, academic institutions, or legislative assemblies. Debates can be used to explore different viewpoints, with each side presenting facts and opinions to support their stance. Debates are valuable for discussing important issues, encouraging critical thinking, and helping participants and audiences understand different perspectives. They can be both educational and recreational, often emphasizing logical consistency, factual accuracy, and emotional appeal'If the idea of debate doesn't appeal to you and you have simply come on to throw insults or ridicule those of a different viewpoint, or cannot accept that a person has a different viewpoint that may be opposed to yours, then perhaps debating in a civilised manner is not for you. Please try to be civil, we do not want to close this area of the forum but may be forced to. Regards, the moderators Well There you have it. Oh, the irony.
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 22, 2024 20:49:40 GMT
Harris. Let's not forget when she ran for the Democratic Nomination she only got 1% of her own parties vote, and promptly dropped out. Even her own party didn't rate her! So, it was a major surprise when she got the nod to become VP. I'm sure it had nothing to do with her being a "woman of colour", oh no siree.
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 22, 2024 20:46:09 GMT
Why do they keep saying she is from "immigrant parents"? Trump's mother was Scottish and therefore an immigrant. His wife is an immigrant as well.
Just saying.
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 22, 2024 20:43:13 GMT
Well, Labour are saying they are going to speed up the 'processing of claims'. Will they just rubber stamp the existing claims, and then say they have solved the problem? How will they remove those people whose claims have been rejected? We all know that a major problem is removing those whose claims have failed. Immigration is a major issue, and one of the reasons why the Tories were kicked out. I don't see Labour offering any solutions. The people of this country are watching. If Labour don't deliver, they will suffer the same fate as the Tories.
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 22, 2024 20:33:37 GMT
How can you possibly compare the US economy to the UK economy? "I always like to compare against an exemplar rather than a lower common denominator." - Is that an admission that the EU economy is the "lower common denominator"? If so, why do you want us to rejoin it? I quoted the numbers on savings which was used as possible explanation as to why growth was lower in the UK. I didn't bring the EU into it you did. You really should stop tap dancing on pin heads. Yes, lower in the UK when compared to the US. I was just pointing out that the UK growth was quicker than the European countries, which actually is a better barometer. What is this 'dancing on pinheads'? I am only pointing out the flaws in your argument.
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 22, 2024 20:29:26 GMT
Ah, so you haven't read it. I read the link you posted, which was a Twitter account summation There was a link there to the full document.
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 22, 2024 13:05:55 GMT
Jill Biden wow, fantastic body, great hair, beautiful skin, just think all of that going too waste tonight. The second time you have posted this, and in just a total of 10 posts, this suggests you are just looking for a wind-up. I suggest you keep postings like this on your home forum.
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 22, 2024 13:03:09 GMT
or... "Economic growth in the UK is growing much faster than the major European countries, and is expected to increase pace because households are still sitting on excess savings worth up to £338 billion ($437 billion), according to the Office for National Statistics." It's the way it's reported that is false. Yes, we are behind the US in growth, but we are ahead of the major European countries! I prefer optimism to pessimism. Ha ha That's a bit like saying "Yeah, I know we lost 3-1, but look at the other lot, they lost 4-0"😂 I always like to compare against an exemplar rather than a lower common denominator. How can you possibly compare the US economy to the UK economy? "I always like to compare against an exemplar rather than a lower common denominator." - Is that an admission that the EU economy is the "lower common denominator"? If so, why do you want us to rejoin it?
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 22, 2024 13:00:43 GMT
"Judge Sebutinde has written a masterful and almost poetic dissention. Unlike the ludicrous conclusion the court has come to, Judge Sebutinde references the astonished breadth of evidence that asserts the ancient historic Jewish nature of the Land of Israel. A must-read." That's alright then...things that happened a couple of thousand years ago justifies taking land off others because of their race, illegally occupying the land, and killing kids of those that resist. The claim is highly dubious in any event Ah, so you haven't read it.
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 22, 2024 12:17:04 GMT
"Economic growth in the UK may have lagged behind the much faster pace seen in the US because households are still sitting on excess savings worth up to £338 billion ($437 billion), according to the Office for National Statistics." Alright, which one of you is hoarding 😂😂 or... "Economic growth in the UK is growing much faster than the major European countries, and is expected to increase pace because households are still sitting on excess savings worth up to £338 billion ($437 billion), according to the Office for National Statistics." It's the way it's reported that is false. Yes, we are behind the US in growth, but we are ahead of the major European countries! I prefer optimism to pessimism.
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 22, 2024 12:00:27 GMT
This doesn't seem to be getting the media coverage it deserves. Maybe because it's not anti-Israeli? It appears that not everyone in the ICJ have the same opinion. "Read the dissenting opinion of Judge Sebutinde, Vice-President of ICJ. She says the ICJ Advisory Opinion is one-sided & doesn’t reflect an impartial examination of the legal & factual questions" ICJ Vice-President
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 22, 2024 11:14:08 GMT
Meanwhile As reported today by Bloomberg "Democrats have reported a surge in donations, with the cash pile growing by more than $50 million, a record for the 2024 campaign. Still, some donors are suggesting the party should have a contest to select its presidential nominee." As I have already stated, the money situation alone could mean they go with Harris. They may not have an alternative.
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