irishrover
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Post by irishrover on May 19, 2021 11:44:27 GMT
OK so at this point I need someone to confirm the rules to me about the next stage! Am I right that it works like this?
-After this round the teams are split into 3 more divisions of 6 depending on where they have placed (1+2, 3+4, 5+6) to create 3 tiers. -Only the top tier compete for the County Championship (which raises the question of why anyone should bother in the other 2 groups right?) -Each team play 4 games - one each against the sides who were not in their stage 1 group. -Results against the side in your group who you qualified with are carried over into the 2nd group stage. -Top team in Tier 1 wins county championship. -Top 2 teams in Tier 2 play 5 day final at Lords for the Bob Willias trophy some time in mid-winter presumably!
Is that about it? That is exactly right as far as I understand it. The teams coming top in their groups will have an advantage as long as they won or didn’t lose the game/games between their group rival. I quite like that, even if it doesn't work in Somerset’s favour, as it won’t in this case. That’s why I think Somerset need to win but Gloucestershire will probably be happy with a draw. But there is still a long way to go so I don’t want to appear to be counting chickens. It gives an important message that the whole season counts, not just September. Teams shouldn’t start with a clean slate in part 2, what happened in part 1 is important. The County Championship should reflect the whole season. The BWT between the top two will be a lottery with it being in late September and the all- important toss probably having a big influence on the result. I tried to include the BBC link but it wouldn’t work. But go to BBC Sport>Cricket>Counties>What to look for.... and it explains it much as you have. Cheers -that makes sense. I just don't understand what Tier 2 and Tier 3 have to play for in September. |
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on May 19, 2021 15:08:52 GMT
Irish, the answer to what do tiers 2 and 3 have to play for, not much unless they’ve allocated prize money to positions which I can’t imagine. Although possible seeding for next year might be considered. But I guess that’s not too different to what clubs in division two played for when they couldn’t go up in previous times.
I suspect the real reason for tiers 2 and 3 is the need for red ball cricket from August onwards. Counties and their members want cricket being played to justify membership fees to meet the need of members and the public who just like Championship cricket however it’s organised. And of course those people who go to red ball cricket are the traditionalists who don’t necessarily need to see a result, a dying breed perhaps but still there. Under this new system with only 4 extra matches that will mean only 2 home matches per county, 8 days. I can only imagine what the people who sit with me at Taunton will be moaning about that.
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on May 20, 2021 10:48:25 GMT
...and both missing for Gloucestershire v Somerset. And no Jack Leach either for us. Both will be big misses. I was wrong. All 3 playing. |
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Post by emperorsuperbus on May 20, 2021 15:47:28 GMT
Irish, the answer to what do tiers 2 and 3 have to play for, not much unless they’ve allocated prize money to positions which I can’t imagine. Although possible seeding for next year might be considered. But I guess that’s not too different to what clubs in division two played for when they couldn’t go up in previous times. I suspect the real reason for tiers 2 and 3 is the need for red ball cricket from August onwards. Counties and their members want cricket being played to justify membership fees to meet the need of members and the public who just like Championship cricket however it’s organised. And of course those people who go to red ball cricket are the traditionalists who don’t necessarily need to see a result, a dying breed perhaps but still there. Under this new system with only 4 extra matches that will mean only 2 home matches per county, 8 days. I can only imagine what the people who sit with me at Taunton will be moaning about that. is stage 2 not 8 games home and away? It just the 4 is it? there are advantages and disadvantages of a conference format. Advantages are everyone starts with chance to win this years title. It can guarantee annual big matches against local rivals. In stage 2 with seeding and money to play for higher you finish, plenty for everyone to play for. |
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on May 20, 2021 16:14:27 GMT
Irish, the answer to what do tiers 2 and 3 have to play for, not much unless they’ve allocated prize money to positions which I can’t imagine. Although possible seeding for next year might be considered. But I guess that’s not too different to what clubs in division two played for when they couldn’t go up in previous times. I suspect the real reason for tiers 2 and 3 is the need for red ball cricket from August onwards. Counties and their members want cricket being played to justify membership fees to meet the need of members and the public who just like Championship cricket however it’s organised. And of course those people who go to red ball cricket are the traditionalists who don’t necessarily need to see a result, a dying breed perhaps but still there. Under this new system with only 4 extra matches that will mean only 2 home matches per county, 8 days. I can only imagine what the people who sit with me at Taunton will be moaning about that. is stage 2 not 8 games home and away? It just the 4 is it? there are advantages and disadvantages of a conference format. Advantages are everyone starts with chance to win this years title. It can guarantee annual big matches against local rivals. In stage 2 with seeding and money to play for higher you finish, plenty for everyone to play for. I’m pretty sure it’s just the 4 extra games in stage 2, presumably 2 home and 2 away, teams to be decided. Then the final table will read Played 6 won... draw... lost... Total points... The table would start with the 2 games already played against their group rival with the points gathered in those 2 matches. So even if Somerset finished winners in the group by the time the points from their matches with Gloucestershire were carried over, if this match is a draw with the bad weather expected, they would likely start stage 2 behind Gloucestershire. Thats my understanding anyway. |
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Post by emperorsuperbus on May 20, 2021 19:03:24 GMT
is stage 2 not 8 games home and away? It just the 4 is it? there are advantages and disadvantages of a conference format. Advantages are everyone starts with chance to win this years title. It can guarantee annual big matches against local rivals. In stage 2 with seeding and money to play for higher you finish, plenty for everyone to play for. I’m pretty sure it’s just the 4 extra games in stage 2, presumably 2 home and 2 away, teams to be decided. Then the final table will read Played 6 won... draw... lost... Total points... The table would start with the 2 games already played against their group rival with the points gathered in those 2 matches. So even if Somerset finished winners in the group by the time the points from their matches with Gloucestershire were carried over, if this match is a draw with the bad weather expected, they would likely start stage 2 behind Gloucestershire. Thats my understanding anyway. seems odd allowing points from 2 games against same team to stand in the next group, but only points from 1 game against rest. Up until then I wasn’t too hostile to this conference idea. I know whoever finishes top is the golden challis, top 2 playing off for the Bob is a separate trophy, not controversial rugby style play off. |
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Post by emperorsuperbus on May 20, 2021 19:13:57 GMT
Anyway. I was there today.
My take on the match. Gloucestershire were very quiet in the field, after winning toss. Fresh, green, but not shiny pitch. Sometimes the ones that appear shiny from a distance cause more problems. Overcast conditions, played through drizzle at times. And a new ball. But never looked like getting a batsman out. No appeals I recall. Very little actual playing and missing. The most awkward over for Somerset was Higgins last, when Bracey took a helmet and stood up to the stumps, and it at least felt like the first LB shout was coming.
This could mean it was a bad day at office for Gloucestershire’s bowlers, a good start for Somerset, ball hit middle of bat from first over onwards.I think most likely that even with a dry 4 days this track, pretty much centre of the square, is so dead it would have gone right through Sunday following couple large first innings scores.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on May 20, 2021 19:24:26 GMT
Anyway. I was there today. My take on the match. Gloucestershire were very quiet in the field, after winning toss. Fresh, green, but not shiny pitch. Sometimes the ones that appear shiny from a distance cause more problems. Overcast conditions, played through drizzle at times. And a new ball. But never looked like getting a batsman out. No appeals I recall. Very little actual playing and missing. The most awkward over for Somerset was Higgins last, when Bracey took a helmet and stood up to the stumps, and it at least felt like the first LB shout was coming. This could mean it was a bad day at office for Gloucestershire’s bowlers, a good start for Somerset, ball hit middle of bar from first over onwards.I think most likely that even with a dry 4 days this track, pretty much centre of the square, is so dead it would have gone right through Sunday following couple large first innings scores. it was also my first serious recreational out since the home match to Sunderland on eve of first lockdown. Didn’t seem weird at all, I think we will all soon get back into swing of things as restrictions lift and ramps back to normal. I would say though, if COVID was high in community, even with masks and spacing etc pretty well enforced today, it would still be a spreader event, you are spending so much time so close to people outside your bubble. At something like this it’s just impossible to avoid people like we do in supermarkets or walking up and down pavement. The Cricket seasons and football seasons need vaccinations to give COVID nowhere to go, keep it so low in community, not just keep washing over us wave after wave. |
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on May 20, 2021 20:56:15 GMT
Did you ballot for a ticket today superbus or did you just turn up?
Like me then and many others I would imagine in that the Sunderland home win last season was my last outing to a sports event or any event come to that but I’m hoping for tickets to the Somerset v Hampshire match if I’m lucky in the Somerset CCC ballot.
I’m not sure I agree with you over it being Somerset’s day today and that it was a bad day for Gloucestershire bowlers. I don’t think Gloucestershire will be unhappy with a draw considering where they are and if the match remains rain interrupted and it’s a draw on Sunday Gloucestershire will be happier than Somerset. I watched it on the You tube stream and you’re right about the pitch looking pretty dead and bowlers struggling with their footholds.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on May 20, 2021 22:33:22 GMT
Did you ballot for a ticket today superbus or did you just turn up? Like me then and many others I would imagine in that the Sunderland home win last season was my last outing to a sports event or any event come to that but I’m hoping for tickets to the Somerset v Hampshire match if I’m lucky in the Somerset CCC ballot. I’m not sure I agree with you over it being Somerset’s day today and that it was a bad day for Gloucestershire bowlers. I don’t think Gloucestershire will be unhappy with a draw considering where they are and if the match remains rain interrupted and it’s a draw on Sunday Gloucestershire will be happier than Somerset. I watched it on the You tube stream and you’re right about the pitch looking pretty dead and bowlers struggling with their footholds. Gloucestershire member, did everything asked to secure a ticket to each day of this one. Got e-ticket for each day. Probably nothing Friday, if starts wet I won’t set off this time till given a start time. Hopefully see a bit Saturday lull between two weather systems. Both these teams very close on points, with Hampshire closing in advanced their match a lot today, so in terms of qualifying they should feel the same about a draw here, still much work to do in remaining games, but from point of win and draw good to take into next table the draw here favours Glos. Lots of Somerset in the ground today, the four 4’s heartily cheered. You are right, lots of playing with sawdust in 90 minutes we had, curious as yesterday and overnight dry, was it just drizzle making it slippery or this track soft underfoot? Compared to iFollow, the free county cricket streams on YouTube are an exciting development. Long may it stay free and not locked behind money grabbing pay walls, because I’m quite confident it will help cricket find a new audience, cricket interested youngsters following county championship for free on social media. Especially these days YouTube built into Sky Q platform, it’s like sitting back and watching cricket on the BBC in 1970’s. If anyone hasn’t had a look yet, it can be bit fiddly finding stream on you tube, but you quickly get the YouTube url from club website stream. |
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on May 21, 2021 9:39:48 GMT
I’m pretty sure it’s just the 4 extra games in stage 2, presumably 2 home and 2 away, teams to be decided. Then the final table will read Played 6 won... draw... lost... Total points... The table would start with the 2 games already played against their group rival with the points gathered in those 2 matches. So even if Somerset finished winners in the group by the time the points from their matches with Gloucestershire were carried over, if this match is a draw with the bad weather expected, they would likely start stage 2 behind Gloucestershire. Thats my understanding anyway. , but only points from 1 game against rest. Up until then I wasn’t too hostile to this conference idea. I know whoever finishes top is the golden challis, top 2 playing off for the Bob is a separate trophy, not controversial rugby style play off. Not really. Surely the points gained by Gloucestershire (or Somerset) when they played each other earlier on should count if they are both in the same league fighting for the Championship in the second stage. That makes it a true season-long championship with every match counting. The only alternative to that notion would be if the top 6 teams played themselves all over again and they played 5 matches each, one against each of the teams in that top-6 league. The only thing I’d change is that they played the other 4 teams home and away, 8 matches. But with the schedule of tests and everything I dont think there is enough time for that. We’d be playing in October. So playing them once is the best available in the time, imo. I think how they’ve organised it is the best way. What do others think? edit: It’s very presumptive thinking Somerset and Gloucestershire will be the two teams going forward. I think they will, Hampshire seem to be doing their best to mess up a very good start. The draw Gloucestershire got there seemed to halt their run and they haven’t really recovered. I think it’s in the hands of both to be top but we’ll see. |
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Post by emperorsuperbus on May 21, 2021 11:16:26 GMT
Leicestershire 20/5 in reply to 233. Hampshire going top after this set of fixtures, likely.
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absent
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Post by absent on May 21, 2021 11:27:57 GMT
Leicestershire 20/5 in reply to 233. Hampshire going top after this set of fixtures, likely. Unless the weather intervenes... |
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Post by tenniscourtgas on May 21, 2021 11:28:03 GMT
Managed to get tickets for the four days, but only lasted until early lunch yesterday!
Saturday could bring some chance of play, but Sunday forecast looks grim.
Obviously, the County Ground is pretty limited for shelter, with the main bar area out of bounds due to Covid restrictions.
Plenty of stewards on duty, food and drink outlets behind the Mound Stand.
Agree, Somerset batsmen looked pretty comfortable in what play there was, Abell looked a busy player as soon as he came in.
Hampshire are much further with their game, Leicestershire 17-5 already, with Hampshire having made 233, so the home side should be fancied to clean up if there is a break in the weather over the next couple of days.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on May 21, 2021 12:12:55 GMT
Managed to get tickets for the four days, but only lasted until early lunch yesterday! Saturday could bring some chance of play, but Sunday forecast looks grim. Obviously, the County Ground is pretty limited for shelter, with the main bar area out of bounds due to Covid restrictions. Plenty of stewards on duty, food and drink outlets behind the Mound Stand. Agree, Somerset batsmen looked pretty comfortable in what play there was, Abell looked a busy player as soon as he came in. Hampshire are much further with their game, Leicestershire 17-5 already, with Hampshire having made 233, so the home side should be fancied to clean up if there is a break in the weather over the next couple of days. Mercifully raining at the Rose Bowl. 😆 going by forecast, Hants 5 sessions to finish off Leics. Shame they lost these wickets as batting been their strong suit. |
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on May 21, 2021 12:17:45 GMT
Managed to get tickets for the four days, but only lasted until early lunch yesterday! Saturday could bring some chance of play, but Sunday forecast looks grim. Obviously, the County Ground is pretty limited for shelter, with the main bar area out of bounds due to Covid restrictions. Plenty of stewards on duty, food and drink outlets behind the Mound Stand. Agree, Somerset batsmen looked pretty comfortable in what play there was, Abell looked a busy player as soon as he came in. Hampshire are much further with their game, Leicestershire 17-5 already, with Hampshire having made 233, so the home side should be fancied to clean up if there is a break in the weather over the next couple of days. How dissapointing. Great opportunity spoiled by the weather. The rain in May has been ridiculous. We're well on track for a 3rd straight weekend of washed out game in club cricket here in Manchester. Very frustrating given the amount of effort we've all gone onto to get them on with Covid adaptations.
I'd have fancied going to the Glos-Somerset game if I was down there. All rather anti-climactic. I have tickets for the Roses match next Sunday at Old Trafford so I'm hoping that a)it goes 4 days and b)the Manchester weather stays away. Neither look a great bet right now to be honest.
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on May 21, 2021 12:52:14 GMT
Throwing it down in Dorset now so I’d imagine little play to be had in the Hampshire match, so it could be down t9 one day to get the 5 wickets before the follow on and 10 wickets of the second innings. Unlikely but Abbott and Abbas at the Ageas it could be possible.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on May 21, 2021 13:09:02 GMT
Managed to get tickets for the four days, but only lasted until early lunch yesterday! Saturday could bring some chance of play, but Sunday forecast looks grim. Obviously, the County Ground is pretty limited for shelter, with the main bar area out of bounds due to Covid restrictions. Plenty of stewards on duty, food and drink outlets behind the Mound Stand. Agree, Somerset batsmen looked pretty comfortable in what play there was, Abell looked a busy player as soon as he came in. Hampshire are much further with their game, Leicestershire 17-5 already, with Hampshire having made 233, so the home side should be fancied to clean up if there is a break in the weather over the next couple of days. How dissapointing. Great opportunity spoiled by the weather. The rain in May has been ridiculous. We're well on track for a 3rd straight weekend of washed out game in club cricket here in Manchester. Very frustrating given the amount of effort we've all gone onto to get them on with Covid adaptations.
I'd have fancied going to the Glos-Somerset game if I was down there. All rather anti-climactic. I have tickets for the Roses match next Sunday at Old Trafford so I'm hoping that a)it goes 4 days and b)the Manchester weather stays away. Neither look a great bet right now to be honest.
Lancs and York’s going well this season, and the weather for Bank Holiday weekend looks dry as a high builds. They haven’t met yet, the two clashes to come. It should be a good match. 🙂 Maybe England players like Root not involved weakens one more than other? Yorkshire’s batting for example. |
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Post by lostinspace on May 22, 2021 11:18:41 GMT
Play at last between Somerset and the glums, going to take a bit of inventiveness from the captains to achieve some sort of result other than the obvious, [Sunday not like;ly to be that great] but no doubt the glums will be happier of the two if it just follows the current path
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on May 22, 2021 12:38:43 GMT
Play at last between Somerset and the glums, going to take a bit of inventiveness from the captains to achieve some sort of result other than the obvious, [Sunday not like;ly to be that great] but no doubt the glums will be happier of the two if it just follows the current path Very true, but I don’t think there’s going to be much negotiation. Somerset may go for maximum batting points later this afternoon and hope to get some bowling points tomorrow and get the best of the draw. Gloucestershire probably happy to just meander along, get the draw and still have the game in hand. |
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