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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2021 23:32:47 GMT
Yep. After a couple of very credible performances under Tommy when we start to think we can get out of this, under Barton back to certain relegation team and tactics. It sounded like we had more about us under Widdrington, created more chances way to a better team. Barton might have made some attacking subs and won the Barton fan girls over with his displays of “PASSHUN” but it doesn’t sound like he knows the squad half as well as he made out when he came in and we didn’t do a great deal bar a decent period after scoring the equaliser. Also, as we can see there has been no immediate new manager bounce. Can’t help but think we don’t need Barton to get relegated. Might as well have just made Widdrington eat his own mess that he has helped create. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2021 23:34:38 GMT
It’ll be far more beneficial building a Phoenix club from scratch than trying to rebuild the mess left once AL Q exits. After all, without bricks and mortar, rovers are only a licence to play in the football league with a declining customer base and a withering brand. It’ll be more fun starting from scratch. And look how far Wimbledon came in the time we spent scratching our arses and dithering. Phoenix Rovers would be playing Barton Rovers in no time at all. We could be playing SE Dons on YouTube within 4 or 5 years. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2021 23:38:01 GMT
The psychology of you Bartonista is a lesson we need to learn. he’s had one position, where despite Budget and time he failed. He has none of the personality traits that make a good manager, and many of the bad ones. How can anyone believe in him? Please one of you donate your brain to science so we can dissect it and find out what has gone wrong in there to be okay with this appointment. This is so right To be fair to o2 he’s one of the more reasonable fellows behind Barton Rovers. Over on Gaschat it’s like a cult. It’s really interesting because people over there have for the most part been refusing to criticise Widdrington. If Barton fails to get a tune out of them they are going to turn on Widdrington like a pack of jackals because relegation will absolutely not be anything to do with the latest tactical mastermind in the dug out, it will be 100% the recruitment and the fault of every manager and club official up until the day Barton walked through the door. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2021 23:41:38 GMT
This is a momentous issue which will have to be tackled at some point. I think Cheshire will agree that with the cost base we have (nearly £10 million pa in the 2019 accounts) a formal restructuring would be the only solution because no one will take on a business with our level of overheads. But, whereas most owners would be happy to be free of the burden and let someone else sort it out through a formal restructuring, Wael has made his position clear so any restructuring won't be straightforward. Then you have the problem of the Mem and the £10 million charge over it. Again, in a normal restructuring the main asset would be valued by taking it's worth to the business which as a football stadium may be a couple of million. But in this case we have a different situation because as a development site £10 million is more realistic and that is presumably what the charge holders will insist on being paid for it. So who will be willing to pay £10 million for a stadium worth a quarter of that and then have to bear the cost of making the restructured football business work ? The charge over the Mem and Wael's strong desire to keep hold of Rovers at seemingly any cost will severely limit the options available. You know what I think. The losses are mostly due to his own poor decision making, so he should act like both an adult and the Gashead that he claims to be, find someone with a credible business plan to take the club forward, write off the losses and hand our club over, genuinely debt free. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2021 23:43:56 GMT
He’s a fantasist who thinks pretty words and instagram pictures makes a successful club owner. The thing is, WAQ can be a useless business man but if he could just appoint a competent head of scouting and a guy who can spot a decent manager he’d be just under half way there. But he’s surrounded himself with mates and hangers on not proper football brains. I don’t believe he wants anyone who will challenge his thoughts. He’s proven that by shedding anyone who has, to date. Barton will challenge him, but I expect he is happy to tolerate difficult individuals if they can bring publicity to his door. It bothers me how we all laughed at the Will Smith pic all like “there he goes eh? Old fame hungry Wael.” and yet it’s turned out to be more than a joke. He’s running Bristol Rovers like a teenage girl at a Bros concert. |
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Cheshiregas
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Post by Cheshiregas on Feb 23, 2021 23:52:23 GMT
Maybe, I am frustrated as you. But you are not answering the question. Who is going to put up the money? Lots want him out but have no solution as to who will replace him. A clueless club with players who don't have the guile, ability or willingness to win games for their managers, club or supporters, in freefall. Where are all the Gasheads with the millions? It's not an argument between you and me, we can do that between us, no problem at all, but this isn't a subject that we either should or need to be at odds over. The way I see it is that we have no idea who may step forward to take the club on if Wael doesn't investigate the options. And it's worth remembering that the cost of running the club just doesn't need to be £2 ~ 3m P/A, nor does the cost need to be carried by one individual. Certainly not an argument between us buddy and definitely not at odds with the frustration behind your comments. But we do need a credible plan, credible financing and credible people which WAQ will be prepared to look at. Some came forward but were rebuffed as WAQ wants to stay in control but he is also being advised by people who by the looks of it are looking after their own position. I do actually believe though that if Barton fails to keep us up (tonight showed the immense task he has) and nothing advances on the stadium front, with the serious ongoing losses I think frustration and/or realism will hit WAQ. It hit Higgs and has hit others in the past in similar positions elsewhere. He will want to come out with something to show for it as he won't want to lose face with the family. I hope that there will be people to take it on who have experience, tenacity, street wisdom and football knowledge. There are people out there but whether they would want to be involved (again) is a whole different debate. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2021 23:54:21 GMT
You know what I think. The losses are mostly due to his own poor decision making, so he should act like both an adult and the Gashead that he claims to be, find someone with a credible business plan to take the club forward, write off the losses and hand our club over, genuinely debt free. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA! Yep. Hard to see where this ends, isn't it. What we've seen in the last couple of days is Wael's latest piece of brilliance, alienate a chunk of the support base and harm the brand. Does he have nobody around him with an ounce of sense prepared to tell him when he's wrong? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2021 23:59:35 GMT
It's not an argument between you and me, we can do that between us, no problem at all, but this isn't a subject that we either should or need to be at odds over. The way I see it is that we have no idea who may step forward to take the club on if Wael doesn't investigate the options. And it's worth remembering that the cost of running the club just doesn't need to be £2 ~ 3m P/A, nor does the cost need to be carried by one individual. Certainly not an argument between us buddy and definitely not at odds with the frustration behind your comments. But we do need a credible plan, credible financing and credible people which WAQ will be prepared to look at. Some came forward but were rebuffed as WAQ wants to stay in control but he is also being advised by people who by the looks of it are looking after their own position. I do actually believe though that if Barton fails to keep us up (tonight showed the immense task he has) and nothing advances on the stadium front, with the serious ongoing losses I think frustration and/or realism will hit WAQ. It hit Higgs and has hit others in the past in similar positions elsewhere. He will want to come out with something to show for it as he won't want to lose face with the family. I hope that there will be people to take it on who have experience, tenacity, street wisdom and football knowledge. There are people out there but whether they would want to be involved (again) is a whole different debate. Just the sentence where you say tonight shows the immense task Barton has is so frustrating. We knew the size of the task Tisdale had. Then he’s gone and in comes Tommy. We’ve got great strikers and have proven we’re capable of competing with the top 6. Then in comes Joey, and now we’re talking about championship football in a year. Then one day, one defeat, and we’re back to the task Tisdale was talking about. I think there are people here who were never sold on the Tommy bullsh&t and are not sold on the Barton bulls&t. Tisdale is a proper football manager and we seem to end up back with him once we’ve cut through all the bullsh&t we’re being served up right now |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2021 0:01:26 GMT
It's not an argument between you and me, we can do that between us, no problem at all, but this isn't a subject that we either should or need to be at odds over. The way I see it is that we have no idea who may step forward to take the club on if Wael doesn't investigate the options. And it's worth remembering that the cost of running the club just doesn't need to be £2 ~ 3m P/A, nor does the cost need to be carried by one individual. Certainly not an argument between us buddy and definitely not at odds with the frustration behind your comments. But we do need a credible plan, credible financing and credible people which WAQ will be prepared to look at. Some came forward but were rebuffed as WAQ wants to stay in control but he is also being advised by people who by the looks of it are looking after their own position. I do actually believe though that if Barton fails to keep us up (tonight showed the immense task he has) and nothing advances on the stadium front, with the serious ongoing losses I think frustration and/or realism will hit WAQ. It hit Higgs and has hit others in the past in similar positions elsewhere. He will want to come out with something to show for it as he won't want to lose face with the family. I hope that there will be people to take it on who have experience, tenacity, street wisdom and football knowledge. There are people out there but whether they would want to be involved (again) is a whole different debate. That's his route out isn't it. Get a stadium plan, make it look credible, then get out with any money he can realise whilst hiding behind the message that the club has taken all of his time and he has responsibilities to his other business partners, so with regret he has to hand over to others to deliver the next, exciting stage in the club's history, which he's set up. Oh, and Rovers will always have a special place in his heart, bald de blah. BTW, I'm not at all surprised by tonight's defeat. Tisdale is a decent manager, he said openly that he couldn't do any more with some of these players. Maybe Barton will be allowed to bring new faces in, but why do that now rather than Jan is beyond me. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2021 0:01:48 GMT
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA! Yep. Hard to see where this ends, isn't it. What we've seen in the last couple of days is Wael's latest piece of brilliance, alienate a chunk of the support base and harm the brand. Does he have nobody around him with an ounce of sense prepared to tell him when he's wrong? Well I asked earlier where was Gorringe in all this? Surely he would know (having promoted the family angle in that well received video) that this was a dangerous road to tread? Was he drowned out by Wael? Or did he think negative publicity fits with the Rovers DNA? He’s about the only guy I trust on that board based on previous achievement, he’s also the only one who seems to have experience at a more successful club. Widdrington is non-league and Starnes learnt all he knows at that famous footballing hot bed in Plymouth. Wael was an IT manager who inherited a lot of wealth. There is no real achievement in football ownership on that board in any sense and it’s starting to show. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2021 0:05:34 GMT
Yep. Hard to see where this ends, isn't it. What we've seen in the last couple of days is Wael's latest piece of brilliance, alienate a chunk of the support base and harm the brand. Does he have nobody around him with an ounce of sense prepared to tell him when he's wrong? Well I asked earlier where was Gorringe in all this? Surely he would know (having promoted the family angle in that well received video) that this was a dangerous road to tread? Was he drowned out by Wael? Or did he think negative publicity fits with the Rovers DNA? He’s about the only guy I trust on that board based on previous achievement, he’s also the only one who seems to have experience at a more successful club. Widdrington is non-league and Starnes learnt all he knows at that famous footballing hot bed in Plymouth. Wael was an IT manager who inherited a lot of wealth. There is no real achievement in football ownership on that board in any sense and it’s starting to show. Gorringe is your great hope, the bloke who agreed the Mintbet sponsorship deal? We really are in trouble in that case. |
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Cheshiregas
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Post by Cheshiregas on Feb 24, 2021 0:05:52 GMT
This is a momentous issue which will have to be tackled at some point. I think Cheshire will agree that with the cost base we have (nearly £10 million pa in the 2019 accounts) a formal restructuring would be the only solution because no one will take on a business with our level of overheads. But, whereas most owners would be happy to be free of the burden and let someone else sort it out through a formal restructuring, Wael has made his position clear so any restructuring won't be straightforward.... ....The charge over the Mem and Wael's strong desire to keep hold of Rovers at seemingly any cost will severely limit the options available. Swiss I agree that a restructuring is/will be needed in the business when WAQ finally comes to the end of the line. Your last point for me is the most salient. His desire to stay is the main stumbling block and any approach will currently be rebuffed unless he remains. I have been part of a number of stalled and failed deals which did so not because the deals didn't stack up but because of egos. One brilliant deal that made real sense failed simply because the boards couldn't agree on the titles of the members of the new board. If anyone is serious about taking over the club they need to manage the ego of the man, his almost childlike attraction to the club and the world of football, and try to get him to listen to advice and sense. They also need to recognise the issues and be honest about the good and not so good parts of the club. At the moment it seems to be all or nothing. Recognise the issues and mitigate them. Look at alternatives to mainstream finance, fans alongside owners, the potential for fan bonds in addition to regular finance or quasi debt structures. Deals can be always be done but we need all sides to be open, honest and able to communicate, the first task is to get the owner to do the latter and to listen. Regards |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2021 0:07:41 GMT
Certainly not an argument between us buddy and definitely not at odds with the frustration behind your comments. But we do need a credible plan, credible financing and credible people which WAQ will be prepared to look at. Some came forward but were rebuffed as WAQ wants to stay in control but he is also being advised by people who by the looks of it are looking after their own position. I do actually believe though that if Barton fails to keep us up (tonight showed the immense task he has) and nothing advances on the stadium front, with the serious ongoing losses I think frustration and/or realism will hit WAQ. It hit Higgs and has hit others in the past in similar positions elsewhere. He will want to come out with something to show for it as he won't want to lose face with the family. I hope that there will be people to take it on who have experience, tenacity, street wisdom and football knowledge. There are people out there but whether they would want to be involved (again) is a whole different debate. Just the sentence where you say tonight shows the immense task Barton has is so frustrating. We knew the size of the task Tisdale had. Then he’s gone and in comes Tommy. We’ve got great strikers and have proven we’re capable of competing with the top 6. Then in comes Joey, and now we’re talking about championship football in a year. Then one day, one defeat, and we’re back to the task Tisdale was talking about. I think there are people here who were never sold on the Tommy bullsh&t and are not sold on the Barton bulls&t. Tisdale is a proper football manager and we seem to end up back with him once we’ve cut through all the bullsh&t we’re being served up right now I don’t think Tisdale was the answer. I don’t think he’s a good manager at this level and his subs and tactics were handicapping an already footballing ability handicapped squad. That being said it seems like Tisdale was given the boot because he spoke out more than anything. Old Widders wasn’t having that so down he came from his ivory tower, got a tune out of them for one game and gave it the billy big bollocks to the press. Game 2 he found out that’s Tisdale might just have had a point, the best his previous bulletproof hubris could do was make a weak claim that “we played better than last time against Gillingham”. Great Tommy, I’ll bet the FA will award us some pity points for that. And with that off he slunk back to his ivory tower, duly chastened and maybe realising that Tisdale was bang on when he said “I’ve got nothing in the effing box!” as was reported. Tisdale was the big winner tonight, not Wigan. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2021 0:09:35 GMT
Well I asked earlier where was Gorringe in all this? Surely he would know (having promoted the family angle in that well received video) that this was a dangerous road to tread? Was he drowned out by Wael? Or did he think negative publicity fits with the Rovers DNA? He’s about the only guy I trust on that board based on previous achievement, he’s also the only one who seems to have experience at a more successful club. Widdrington is non-league and Starnes learnt all he knows at that famous footballing hot bed in Plymouth. Wael was an IT manager who inherited a lot of wealth. There is no real achievement in football ownership on that board in any sense and it’s starting to show. Gorringe is your great hope, the bloke who agreed the Mintbet sponsorship deal? We really are in trouble in that case. 😂 😂 😂 who the f&ck are mintbet anyway? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2021 0:10:17 GMT
This is a momentous issue which will have to be tackled at some point. I think Cheshire will agree that with the cost base we have (nearly £10 million pa in the 2019 accounts) a formal restructuring would be the only solution because no one will take on a business with our level of overheads. But, whereas most owners would be happy to be free of the burden and let someone else sort it out through a formal restructuring, Wael has made his position clear so any restructuring won't be straightforward.... ....The charge over the Mem and Wael's strong desire to keep hold of Rovers at seemingly any cost will severely limit the options available. Swiss I agree that a restructuring is/will be needed in the business when WAQ finally comes to the end of the line. Your last point for me is the most salient. His desire to stay is the main stumbling block and any approach will currently be rebuffed unless he remains. I have been part of a number of stalled and failed deals which did so not because the deals didn't stack up but because of egos. One brilliant deal that made real sense failed simply because the boards couldn't agree on the titles of the members of the new board. If anyone is serious about taking over the club they need to manage the ego of the man, his almost childlike attraction to the club and the world of football, and try to get him to listen to advice and sense. They also need to recognise the issues and be honest about the good and not so good parts of the club. At the moment it seems to be all or nothing. Recognise the issues and mitigate them. Look at alternatives to mainstream finance, fans alongside owners, the potential for fan bonds in addition to regular finance or quasi debt structures. Deals can be always be done but we need all sides to be open, honest and able to communicate, the first task is to get the owner to do the latter and to listen. Regards Swansea were fan owned when they got to the premiership. Okay, so that’s a very extreme example and subject to some unique factors, but it would be nice to see Bristol Rovers out of the exclusive hands of one man so we don’t always have to keep asking the question “how long is he going to fund us for?” “He can pick the manager because it’s his club and he can do what he wants” |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2021 0:18:56 GMT
Swiss I agree that a restructuring is/will be needed in the business when WAQ finally comes to the end of the line. Your last point for me is the most salient. His desire to stay is the main stumbling block and any approach will currently be rebuffed unless he remains. I have been part of a number of stalled and failed deals which did so not because the deals didn't stack up but because of egos. One brilliant deal that made real sense failed simply because the boards couldn't agree on the titles of the members of the new board. If anyone is serious about taking over the club they need to manage the ego of the man, his almost childlike attraction to the club and the world of football, and try to get him to listen to advice and sense. They also need to recognise the issues and be honest about the good and not so good parts of the club. At the moment it seems to be all or nothing. Recognise the issues and mitigate them. Look at alternatives to mainstream finance, fans alongside owners, the potential for fan bonds in addition to regular finance or quasi debt structures. Deals can be always be done but we need all sides to be open, honest and able to communicate, the first task is to get the owner to do the latter and to listen. Regards Swansea were fan owned when they got to the premiership. Okay, so that’s a very extreme example and subject to some unique factors, but it would be nice to see Bristol Rovers out of the exclusive hands of one man so we don’t always have to keep asking the question “how long is he going to fund us for?” “He can pick the manager because it’s his club and he can do what he wants” The trouble with Swansea is the council built and paid for their stadium and leased it to them. They sold the vetch, prime city centre land, and pocketed the cash. So it’s like selling your house, moving into rented, and spending the equity on cars and holidays. When the cash runs out you get found out. So eventually the chairman of the fan owned club was hounded out. But I get your point, Exeter probably a better example though. Now who would have an insight into how that works? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2021 0:28:50 GMT
Swansea were fan owned when they got to the premiership. Okay, so that’s a very extreme example and subject to some unique factors, but it would be nice to see Bristol Rovers out of the exclusive hands of one man so we don’t always have to keep asking the question “how long is he going to fund us for?” “He can pick the manager because it’s his club and he can do what he wants” The trouble with Swansea is the council built and paid for their stadium and leased it to them. They sold the vetch, prime city centre land, and pocketed the cash. So it’s like selling your house, moving into rented, and spending the equity on cars and holidays. When the cash runs out you get found out. So eventually the chairman of the fan owned club was hounded out. But I get your point, Exeter probably a better example though. Now who would have an insight into how that works? Yeah fair point that. I’m a big fan of trying to emulate their approach. They settled on an ethos and put it into action and for a while were the anti-Barton Rovers in that every decision they made was the right one, having Martinez kick it all off then following him with talented coaches who knew how to progress the work of the previous encumbent. Contrast that with the Bristol Rovers DNA and Wael talking a good game about developing youth and it’s laughable how we have barely even started and we’ve failed already at it. I’m not sure the Exeter model is the poster child either. They were seriously ham strung financially weren’t they? |
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Post by swissgas on Feb 24, 2021 0:34:03 GMT
This is a momentous issue which will have to be tackled at some point. I think Cheshire will agree that with the cost base we have (nearly £10 million pa in the 2019 accounts) a formal restructuring would be the only solution because no one will take on a business with our level of overheads. But, whereas most owners would be happy to be free of the burden and let someone else sort it out through a formal restructuring, Wael has made his position clear so any restructuring won't be straightforward.... ....The charge over the Mem and Wael's strong desire to keep hold of Rovers at seemingly any cost will severely limit the options available. Swiss I agree that a restructuring is/will be needed in the business when WAQ finally comes to the end of the line. Your last point for me is the most salient. His desire to stay is the main stumbling block and any approach will currently be rebuffed unless he remains. I have been part of a number of stalled and failed deals which did so not because the deals didn't stack up but because of egos. One brilliant deal that made real sense failed simply because the boards couldn't agree on the titles of the members of the new board. If anyone is serious about taking over the club they need to manage the ego of the man, his almost childlike attraction to the club and the world of football, and try to get him to listen to advice and sense. They also need to recognise the issues and be honest about the good and not so good parts of the club. At the moment it seems to be all or nothing. Recognise the issues and mitigate them. Look at alternatives to mainstream finance, fans alongside owners, the potential for fan bonds in addition to regular finance or quasi debt structures. Deals can be always be done but we need all sides to be open, honest and able to communicate, the first task is to get the owner to do the latter and to listen. Regards Over the years I’ve spoken to quite a few potential investors about Rovers and the three main things I’ve learned are : 1) They want control 2) They want their investment to go into developing a football club not to reward an owner who has failed 3) They want to buy a football club with a stadium not a development site |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2021 0:38:24 GMT
The trouble with Swansea is the council built and paid for their stadium and leased it to them. They sold the vetch, prime city centre land, and pocketed the cash. So it’s like selling your house, moving into rented, and spending the equity on cars and holidays. When the cash runs out you get found out. So eventually the chairman of the fan owned club was hounded out. But I get your point, Exeter probably a better example though. Now who would have an insight into how that works? Yeah fair point that. I’m a big fan of trying to emulate their approach. They settled on an ethos and put it into action and for a while were the anti-Barton Rovers in that every decision they made was the right one, having Martinez kick it all off then following him with talented coaches who knew how to progress the work of the previous encumbent. Contrast that with the Bristol Rovers DNA and Wael talking a good game about developing youth and it’s laughable how we have barely even started and we’ve failed already at it. I’m not sure the Exeter model is the poster child either. They were seriously ham strung financially weren’t they? Yes you’re right. I think prior to being fan owned they went into a VCA and paid back about 0.1p in the pound. Not such a good example 🤦🏻♂️ In terms of DNA, god I hate that term, yes I think Swansea were brilliant climbing through the leagues. They started with Flynn brining in some top young players when they were heading for non league. They had a turnover of managers but each added to what was before them and I think it turned pear shaped when they couldn’t afford to compete in the prem anymore |
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Feb 24, 2021 1:03:20 GMT
To be fair to o2 he’s one of the more reasonable fellows behind Barton Rovers. Over on Gaschat it’s like a cult. It’s really interesting because people over there have for the most part been refusing to criticise Widdrington. If Barton fails to get a tune out of them they are going to turn on Widdrington like a pack of jackals because relegation will absolutely not be anything to do with the latest tactical mastermind in the dug out, it will be 100% the recruitment and the fault of every manager and club official up until the day Barton walked through the door. Nope. Anyone into Barton Fandom deserves to get straight talked till out of it if we are to get our rovers back. We need to be tough on this misplaced Fandom, because there is no intellectual or emotional justification for supporting this shallow, fraudulent twat of a man. So what makes Barton Fandom tick? What are the solutions to this current crisis at rovers? The solutions. If it was as simple as they share Bartons love and understanding of Nietzsche, then I can solve that with merely one or two posts on just this one forum. If they still think he has potential to be a good football manager despite failure at Fleetwood and his possessing zero positive managerial and leadership traits, it will take longer, but also easy to eventually get them to realise this is his last managerial post in football league before his bs is finally found out. If we are right, and he is a rubbish manager, we don’t have to do much, he will prove this to the world. If it’s generational thing, and they can plead young and immaturity then I will actually enjoy embarrassing them about it when they grow up. More serious if it’s lefty politics rallying around their man, like lefty politics rallied around Jeremy Corbyn (Barton did return to the Labour fold to stand up for Corbyn) this a juvenile emotional, almost evangelical attachment, not founded in anything intellectual, meaning it will just be difficult to reason with them. But we will get there. We will remove him, hopefully in time for a summer rebuild for L2. Getting rid of Wael I think is ultimately the bigger problem if we want our Rovers back. |
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