irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Mar 11, 2021 10:43:00 GMT
To summarise Trying to be objective but if you’re not a sworn footsoldier then you must be a Barton hater Pleasantly surprised at some of his interviews and Tuesdays result Didnt feel the elation I would have done pre Barton. I want to but can’t, just disconnected from the club in general and see it as a circus I may warm to him to a point but don’t see his going to prison as a badge of honour like a lot seem to If it wasn’t for people like me being against his appointment then I don’t think you’d have these fanatics worshipping the ground he walks on. It’s polarisation. A bit weird But that’s the point Vlad, it’s not polarisation, not at all. I, like many was surprised by his appointment. He wouldn’t have been my choice, mostly because I’d seen the bad press and I thought he was an out and out bad guy. However he was appointed and so I put my reservations to one side and decided I had to keep an open mind. It turned out I had a very one dimensional view of him. I had accepted he was a horrible person because I had casually observed all the headlines and, like others, had enjoyed the crowd baiting when he was at our place with Fleetwood and jeered joyously when he got sent to the stands by the ref. However, I was surprised by his personality when he was interviewed on arrival, have enjoyed the consistency of his message and admired his wit and humour and have seen there is no small measure of intelligence about the man, far more than there has been shown by most of the managers we’ve played under during my 60 or so years being a Gasheads. So there you go. Whether he is a truly reformed character with regard to how he controls his temper and the red mist, that remains to be seen. The fact is I have revised my opinion of JB, it remains to be seen if he can convince me further but unalloyed, non-critical adoration? Not me. I care very little about Joey Barton and his relative merits - my interest is in Bristol Rovers Football Club and what it is that I am supporting/giving my money to.
We have appointed a man to our highest profile position who has a criminal court case standing over his head for a violent assault while carrying out that role. This is not normal or acceptable practice in any other line of work. This is not a one off incident but the latest in a long line of actions that have shown contempt for the game and the roles he's had within it. There is no evidence of any 'reform' having occurred. This appointment suggests that the club is rotten to me and without any kind of moral compass.
I wouldn't be prepared to work in a place in which this sort of thing occurred, I wouldn't accept somebody in my family or a friend behaving in this way (I mean the appointment not the action of Barton) and I'm not prepared to give my money and support to a football club that does this. No doubt I will be rendered a hypocrit at some point because there are people I only see at Rovers who mean a lot to me so I will inevitable end up attending games at some point, which makes me angry.
It makes me question what the point of supporting the club full-stop is really. I currently do not care if we win or lose. That may change and others may think differently but if you don't care then you don't care and that is where I currently am. Ulitmately, I am more sad than angry. Winning 4-1 vs Accy doesn't really come into it.
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
Don't care
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Post by eppinggas on Mar 11, 2021 12:08:03 GMT
Don't think it's my fault, not this time anyway. Mike has served his ban for his stupid behaviour and has been allowed back on here, in his many guises, maybe that's a factor, I honestly don't know. Check the date that Mr Punchy's court hearing is scheduled for, there's a very good chance that migration flight paths may bring him back this way around about the same time. Take care Shoves, the place is better with you.I’m also not happy with eppinggas not being around. I know Mike Jay aka Harry buckle plus others, had a month ban but seems to have been sooner. Ian, if you are still looking then just pop on once in awhile mate. Cheers Hi Jools - I'm good mate. I'll check Reports, PM's and Tags... But I just don't feel I have anything new to contribute right now. I've made my position pretty clear on the Board and Barton. I've nothing to add. Perhaps duck has come to the same comclusion. Each to their own. Anger and resentment has passed. I simply don't care any more. Keep safe Gasheads. Eisern. Edit: Just read the Irish comment. Yup. Agreed. Except I won't attend a Rovers fixture under any circumstances until Barton is gone.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Mar 11, 2021 12:19:01 GMT
But that’s the point Vlad, it’s not polarisation, not at all. I, like many was surprised by his appointment. He wouldn’t have been my choice, mostly because I’d seen the bad press and I thought he was an out and out bad guy. However he was appointed and so I put my reservations to one side and decided I had to keep an open mind. It turned out I had a very one dimensional view of him. I had accepted he was a horrible person because I had casually observed all the headlines and, like others, had enjoyed the crowd baiting when he was at our place with Fleetwood and jeered joyously when he got sent to the stands by the ref. However, I was surprised by his personality when he was interviewed on arrival, have enjoyed the consistency of his message and admired his wit and humour and have seen there is no small measure of intelligence about the man, far more than there has been shown by most of the managers we’ve played under during my 60 or so years being a Gasheads. So there you go. Whether he is a truly reformed character with regard to how he controls his temper and the red mist, that remains to be seen. The fact is I have revised my opinion of JB, it remains to be seen if he can convince me further but unalloyed, non-critical adoration? Not me. I care very little about Joey Barton and his relative merits - my interest is in Bristol Rovers Football Club and what it is that I am supporting/giving my money to.
We have appointed a man to our highest profile position who has a criminal court case standing over his head for a violent assault while carrying out that role. This is not normal or acceptable practice in any other line of work. This is not a one off incident but the latest in a long line of actions that have shown contempt for the game and the roles he's had within it. There is no evidence of any 'reform' having occurred. This appointment suggests that the club is rotten to me and without any kind of moral compass.
I wouldn't be prepared to work in a place in which this sort of thing occurred, I wouldn't accept somebody in my family or a friend behaving in this way (I mean the appointment not the action of Barton) and I'm not prepared to give my money and support to a football club that does this. No doubt I will be rendered a hypocrit at some point because there are people I only see at Rovers who mean a lot to me so I will inevitable end up attending games at some point, which makes me angry.
It makes me question what the point of supporting the club full-stop is really. I currently do not care if we win or lose. That may change and others may think differently but if you don't care then you don't care and that is where I currently am. Ulitmately, I am more sad than angry. Winning 4-1 vs Accy doesn't really come into it.
Great post and I think many of us are feeling the same way. Repentance plays a big role in courts and his comment on prison will have been noted.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2021 13:46:02 GMT
All of what Irish said, with just one slight amendment.
Whilst in football terms Tuesday's result didn't matter much to me, I understood that it did make an awful lot of people that are part of the extended 'Gas' family very happy. Having been part of that community for over 50 years I can't prevent myself being happy for the thousands who would have been thrilled with a big home win that took the club out of the relegation places.
That aside, I'm close to actually wishing failure on those who made this appointment on behalf on 'my' club. And that's some kind of conundrum, the last thing I want is Rovers to fail, but equally those who made this disgraceful appointment most certainly shouldn't profit from it in any way.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2021 16:37:16 GMT
All of what Irish said, with just one slight amendment. Whilst in football terms Tuesday's result didn't matter much to me, I understood that it did make an awful lot of people that are part of the extended 'Gas' family very happy. Having been part of that community for over 50 years I can't prevent myself being happy for the thousands who would have been thrilled with a big home win that took the club out of the relegation places. That aside, I'm close to actually wishing failure on those who made this appointment on behalf on 'my' club. And that's some kind of conundrum, the last thing I want is Rovers to fail, but equally those who made this disgraceful appointment most certainly shouldn't profit from it in any way. Same for me, I couldn’t be elated on Tuesday evening and that’s not personal choice, that was how I felt. Pleased, yes, but in a “nice to see my old team win” rather than a “gas forever” kind of way. Even if aspects of what Barton has done has impressed me, love and support for the club has gone and that can’t be changed by either good results or being told to “#### off to Ashton” I don’t want to see them relegated but if they were I don’t think it would bother me like it did in previous years, particularly 2014. And to follow on from the original question - it’s not anti-Barton, a Barton hater or whatever. I can objectively see what he’s doing well, but I can also see things which I don’t like which others seem to. And I just can’t support him
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2021 16:43:46 GMT
Put it this way: if you were the head of an organisation that was taking part in a major sporting tournament beamed around the world to a huge audience and your manager had a court case for domestic violence being heard almost exactly a month to the day before the start of that tournament, how would you handle the situation? I don’t think you’d just pretend that it all didn’t happen and plan for your manager to still be in charge of the team somehow! I would approach with compassion and empathy, until that approach was abused. So....you back your intended. Offer support. Provide time and space for whatever is needed, but importantly get to work on a contingency. A plan b, if you like...? I don’t think it works like that in football - having a manager who is in tune with the players be in charge until the eve of the tournament....when suddenly he’s not. The FAW have grabbed the bull by the horns and have dealt with it on their own terms by taking him out of the spotlight at least. By contrast I would put big money on Wael not having any kind of a plan for Barton, except maybe try and brazen it out if he is found guilty and then hope for the best.
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bluetornados
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Post by bluetornados on Mar 11, 2021 16:56:16 GMT
I to despise what JB has brought to our table and who knows what his future is with the cases he is facing and for our great football club.
We have him here for now and i will never give up my support for the club, i like many others would crawl to the Wimbledon game on saturday.
We have to stay in L1 at all costs and if JB keeps us up then great, we will be in a much better position to build for next season and beyond.
If JB is still here then so be it, but if he goes to prison then the board will have to sort that out when that happens.
The club is bigger than any of us and it must survive, if we go down then i fear a double relegation could well happen.
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Rex
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Post by Rex on Mar 11, 2021 17:06:57 GMT
I would approach with compassion and empathy, until that approach was abused. So....you back your intended. Offer support. Provide time and space for whatever is needed, but importantly get to work on a contingency. A plan b, if you like...? I don’t think it works like that in football - having a manager who is in tune with the players be in charge until the eve of the tournament....when suddenly he’s not. The FAW have grabbed the bull by the horns and have dealt with it on their own terms by taking him out of the spotlight at least. By contrast I would put big money on Wael not having any kind of a plan for Barton, except maybe try and brazen it out if he is found guilty and then hope for the best.This is my concern. I mean, innocent till proven guilty and all that, but evidence in the public domain does suggest that if you can find odds on our man being found guilty, then it's time to lump on! And of course, if he is found guilty, it is very difficult to see him not getting a custodial. It is hard to believe - yet entirely believable- that the board are just hoping for the best.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Mar 11, 2021 17:21:43 GMT
I would approach with compassion and empathy, until that approach was abused. So....you back your intended. Offer support. Provide time and space for whatever is needed, but importantly get to work on a contingency. A plan b, if you like...? I don’t think it works like that in football - having a manager who is in tune with the players be in charge until the eve of the tournament....when suddenly he’s not. The FAW have grabbed the bull by the horns and have dealt with it on their own terms by taking him out of the spotlight at least. By contrast I would put big money on Wael not having any kind of a plan for Barton, except maybe try and brazen it out if he is found guilty and then hope for the best. In simple terms (because that's what I am), if you love or care for something enough to invest time and money in, you would be a fool not to find contingency for every expected event, and most unexpected you can think of.....it's like a due diligence. It doesn't always need to be made public in contemporary terms. I'm setting that one up for anyone whom wants to post the inevitable reply... But there should be a plan b for every position, that's just being responsible. As for the FAW, yep I understood why they've taken their course of action, to err on the side of caution, but you can't have it both ways. Giggs is innocent until proven guilty, and support has been withdrawn. That's open to criticism. To compare it to our situation isn't fair to describe us as tin pot....it looks like a throwaway comment borne out of frustration. For instance, if JAB avoids conviction and is successful in retaining our 3rd division status, whilst, Wales succumb to nothing in tournament and underperform.....what will we have learned?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2021 18:50:36 GMT
I don’t think it works like that in football - having a manager who is in tune with the players be in charge until the eve of the tournament....when suddenly he’s not. The FAW have grabbed the bull by the horns and have dealt with it on their own terms by taking him out of the spotlight at least. By contrast I would put big money on Wael not having any kind of a plan for Barton, except maybe try and brazen it out if he is found guilty and then hope for the best. In simple terms (because that's what I am), if you love or care for something enough to invest time and money in, you would be a fool not to find contingency for every expected event, and most unexpected you can think of.....it's like a due diligence. It doesn't always need to be made public in contemporary terms. I'm setting that one up for anyone whom wants to post the inevitable reply... But there should be a plan b for every position, that's just being responsible. As for the FAW, yep I understood why they've taken their course of action, to err on the side of caution, but you can't have it both ways. Giggs is innocent until proven guilty, and support has been withdrawn. That's open to criticism. To compare it to our situation isn't fair to describe us as tin pot....it looks like a throwaway comment borne out of frustration. For instance, if JAB avoids conviction and is successful in retaining our 3rd division status, whilst, Wales succumb to nothing in tournament and underperform.....what will we have learned? We've learned that the present owner doesn't understand the history and tradition of our club. Of course I have no idea at all what's said behind closed doors, but if the court case goes ahead and if he's convicted and then unable to fulfil the terms of his contract with Rovers I wonder if we'll hear a statement suggesting that they are disappointed as Barton had assured them that he was innocent and was looking forward to the opportunity to prove that in court.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Mar 11, 2021 20:10:51 GMT
In simple terms (because that's what I am), if you love or care for something enough to invest time and money in, you would be a fool not to find contingency for every expected event, and most unexpected you can think of.....it's like a due diligence. It doesn't always need to be made public in contemporary terms. I'm setting that one up for anyone whom wants to post the inevitable reply... But there should be a plan b for every position, that's just being responsible. As for the FAW, yep I understood why they've taken their course of action, to err on the side of caution, but you can't have it both ways. Giggs is innocent until proven guilty, and support has been withdrawn. That's open to criticism. To compare it to our situation isn't fair to describe us as tin pot....it looks like a throwaway comment borne out of frustration. For instance, if JAB avoids conviction and is successful in retaining our 3rd division status, whilst, Wales succumb to nothing in tournament and underperform.....what will we have learned? We've learned that the present owner doesn't understand the history and tradition of our club. Of course I have no idea at all what's said behind closed doors, but if the court case goes ahead and if he's convicted and then unable to fulfil the terms of his contract with Rovers I wonder if we'll hear a statement suggesting that they are disappointed as Barton had assured them that he was innocent and was looking forward to the opportunity to prove that in court. FWIW, the collective "we've" in your statement doesn't include me. Or others. Not yet. Your prerogative Hypothesis and assumptions are great to be explored and I'm all for it, but your post contains too much fiction as of this moment. It might also be fiction, but: can be argued otherwise, innocent until proven guilty is a stalwart of British values. The right to a fair trial. The right for non discrimination in employment observing rehabilitation orders. If JAB avoids conviction and keeps the club in 3rd division, it might be argued this club is non judgemental, and appointed the best manager available at the time of the season that done a miracle job of keeping this club up under adverse circumstances.....which in someway, we've all seen before.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2021 21:03:39 GMT
We've learned that the present owner doesn't understand the history and tradition of our club. Of course I have no idea at all what's said behind closed doors, but if the court case goes ahead and if he's convicted and then unable to fulfil the terms of his contract with Rovers I wonder if we'll hear a statement suggesting that they are disappointed as Barton had assured them that he was innocent and was looking forward to the opportunity to prove that in court. FWIW, the collective "we've" in your statement doesn't include me. Or others. Not yet. Your prerogative Hypothesis and assumptions are great to be explored and I'm all for it, but your post contains too much fiction as of this moment. It might also be fiction, but: can be argued otherwise, innocent until proven guilty is a stalwart of British values. The right to a fair trial. The right for non discrimination in employment observing rehabilitation orders. If JAB avoids conviction and keeps the club in 3rd division, it might be argued this club is non judgemental, and appointed the best manager available at the time of the season that done a miracle job of keeping this club up under adverse circumstances.....which in someway, we've all seen before. In which case you have less respect for the club than I had, prior to this appointment. The rest was just musing, no fiction, but your reply raises a question. What criminal charge, if indeed any, would need to be hanging over someone for you feel that Rovers should wait until the courts had made a decision before offering that person a contract of employment?
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gas78
Joined: March 2021
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Post by gas78 on Mar 12, 2021 0:32:14 GMT
In simple terms (because that's what I am), if you love or care for something enough to invest time and money in, you would be a fool not to find contingency for every expected event, and most unexpected you can think of.....it's like a due diligence. It doesn't always need to be made public in contemporary terms. I'm setting that one up for anyone whom wants to post the inevitable reply... But there should be a plan b for every position, that's just being responsible. As for the FAW, yep I understood why they've taken their course of action, to err on the side of caution, but you can't have it both ways. Giggs is innocent until proven guilty, and support has been withdrawn. That's open to criticism. To compare it to our situation isn't fair to describe us as tin pot....it looks like a throwaway comment borne out of frustration. For instance, if JAB avoids conviction and is successful in retaining our 3rd division status, whilst, Wales succumb to nothing in tournament and underperform.....what will we have learned? We've learned that the present owner doesn't understand the history and tradition of our club. Have we? Where? Can you post the evidence that he doesn't understand the history and tradition of our club please? That is a pretty serious accusation to make.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Mar 12, 2021 8:41:55 GMT
FWIW, the collective "we've" in your statement doesn't include me. Or others. Not yet. Your prerogative Hypothesis and assumptions are great to be explored and I'm all for it, but your post contains too much fiction as of this moment. It might also be fiction, but: can be argued otherwise, innocent until proven guilty is a stalwart of British values. The right to a fair trial. The right for non discrimination in employment observing rehabilitation orders. If JAB avoids conviction and keeps the club in 3rd division, it might be argued this club is non judgemental, and appointed the best manager available at the time of the season that done a miracle job of keeping this club up under adverse circumstances.....which in someway, we've all seen before. In which case you have less respect for the club than I had, prior to this appointment. The rest was just musing, no fiction, but your reply raises a question. What criminal charge, if indeed any, would need to be hanging over someone for you feel that Rovers should wait until the courts had made a decision before offering that person a contract of employment? Respect? Haha! Has to be earned, doesn't it? I pay my way into the club with various forms of contribution, so don't need to prove level of respect to anyone. As for your question.... it's innocent until proven guilty. If the charge was serious enough, remand would be applied. Like I've said before, the club have a history of employing/associating staff with convictions, spent or otherwise. Also..... there's been not one supplier or sponsorship pulling out in protest. Not one corporate cancelling in protest (you can guarantee media coverage would be all over it)....all we have are a few individuals, probably a small percentage of the fanbase exercising their democratic right to cease funding as of this moment. Here's a question I wonder whether you'll address.....is it morally right to accept funds from a fan or supporter with exactly the same as JAB convictions?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2021 9:30:35 GMT
In which case you have less respect for the club than I had, prior to this appointment. The rest was just musing, no fiction, but your reply raises a question. What criminal charge, if indeed any, would need to be hanging over someone for you feel that Rovers should wait until the courts had made a decision before offering that person a contract of employment? Respect? Haha! Has to be earned, doesn't it? I pay my way into the club with various forms of contribution, so don't need to prove level of respect to anyone. As for your question.... it's innocent until proven guilty. If the charge was serious enough, remand would be applied. Like I've said before, the club have a history of employing/associating staff with convictions, spent or otherwise. Also..... there's been not one supplier or sponsorship pulling out in protest. Not one corporate cancelling in protest (you can guarantee media coverage would be all over it)....all we have are a few individuals, probably a small percentage of the fanbase exercising their democratic right to cease funding as of this moment. Here's a question I wonder whether you'll address.....is it morally right to accept funds from a fan or supporter with exactly the same as JAB convictions?P Supporters who receive a football related conviction receive a life ban at Bristol Rovers, or at least they did.
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Rex
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Post by Rex on Mar 12, 2021 10:10:45 GMT
Respect? Haha! Has to be earned, doesn't it? I pay my way into the club with various forms of contribution, so don't need to prove level of respect to anyone. As for your question.... it's innocent until proven guilty. If the charge was serious enough, remand would be applied. Like I've said before, the club have a history of employing/associating staff with convictions, spent or otherwise. Also..... there's been not one supplier or sponsorship pulling out in protest. Not one corporate cancelling in protest (you can guarantee media coverage would be all over it)....all we have are a few individuals, probably a small percentage of the fanbase exercising their democratic right to cease funding as of this moment. Here's a question I wonder whether you'll address.....is it morally right to accept funds from a fan or supporter with exactly the same as JAB convictions?P Supporters who receive a football related conviction receive a life ban at Bristol Rovers, or at least they did.I have known a couple of people who have been 'banned for life' at football clubs , whose bans, in reality, lasted little more than a couple of years. On that point, is Kevin Spencer still bannned for the heinous offence of 'being Kevin Spencer'?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2021 10:54:56 GMT
Supporters who receive a football related conviction receive a life ban at Bristol Rovers, or at least they did. I have known a couple of people who have been 'banned for life' at football clubs , whose bans, in reality, lasted little more than a couple of years. On that point, is Kevin Spencer still bannned for the heinous offence of 'being Kevin Spencer'? There are a lot of N's in that ban, must have been a big one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2021 11:06:00 GMT
I have known a couple of people who have been 'banned for life' at football clubs , whose bans, in reality, lasted little more than a couple of years. On that point, is Kevin Spencer still bannned for the heinous offence of 'being Kevin Spencer'? There are a lot of N's in that ban, must have been a big one. Funny isn't it, looking back 5 years, amongst the first things the new owners did when they arrived was remove that petty and vindictive ban, appeared to be well placed financially, and spoke about the importance of communication was residents when making plans for things such as stadium developments. It really did feel as if everything that had been wrong in the past was about to change... Having said that, as far as I'm aware nobody has been banned for expressing opinion, so that's a big step in the right direction at least.
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Post by rowdenhill on Mar 12, 2021 11:07:11 GMT
Band For Life - an excellent book about xpogo and other scabrous activities in Chicago
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towngas
Joined: February 2021
Posts: 566
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Post by towngas on Mar 12, 2021 14:09:15 GMT
I don’t think it works like that in football - having a manager who is in tune with the players be in charge until the eve of the tournament....when suddenly he’s not. The FAW have grabbed the bull by the horns and have dealt with it on their own terms by taking him out of the spotlight at least. By contrast I would put big money on Wael not having any kind of a plan for Barton, except maybe try and brazen it out if he is found guilty and then hope for the best.This is my concern. I mean, innocent till proven guilty and all that, but evidence in the public domain does suggest that if you can find odds on our man being found guilty, then it's time to lump on! And of course, if he is found guilty, it is very difficult to see him not getting a custodial. It is hard to believe - yet entirely believable- that the board are just hoping for the best.If Esmeralda people talking about what they’ve seen
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