knowall
Joined: August 2019
Posts: 162
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Post by knowall on Mar 7, 2021 14:14:33 GMT
It is interesting how morals in life and certainly in football have changed over the years. It was the Directors of Bristol Rovers FC who in 1963 reported one of their own players (Esmond Million) to the FA for conspiring with others to lose a match for payment of reportedly £300. Million was found guilty and fined and banned from football for life. I wonder if our current directors would even consider doing the same now, or would they sweep it under the counter? By the comments on this forum, I guess many supporters would just turn a blind eye. How times have changed.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2021 14:48:13 GMT
I could have been more accepting of this appointment under different circumstance. Yes I’m against this appointment but not just down to past reputation.
My problems are this: 1. The change of direction when GC left us third, plus the real reasons GC left. What was the new plan - win promotion playing great passing football while selling our players for millions? This isn’t football manager on the amiga 2. Who around Wael was suitably qualified to set this new direction? 3. After it all went pair shaped under Garner, we bought in someone who had spent a long time at a club where the setup essentially worked. He was someone who could set the football side up. He wasn’t able to do this and clearly couldn’t work with board 4. So what part of this strategy does Joey form? If it was explained on his arrival it may have helped but he was left on his own while the board remained silent. It’s not Joeys fault at all but it feels like our owner was blinded by his celebrity and his agent. And what is his celebrity based on? 5. When Joey talks the talk about what he can do with the players I don’t believe him. I think he believes in himself and our owners clearly believe him. I believe what Tisdale said in his last interview, but the owners didn’t want to hear that. To me it’s the emperors new clothes but I may well be proved wrong. We’ll see
And all the while the debt grows and the football side goes nowhere.
So for me, while the past behaviours are an issue and I promise I won’t go on about them anymore, there are deeper issues around how our club is run that I see Joeys appointment as a symptom of. I could also have probably tolerated this appointment after the court case but before it just seems daft
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2021 15:13:35 GMT
I could have been more accepting of this appointment under different circumstance. Yes I’m against this appointment but not just down to past reputation. My problems are this: 1. The change of direction when GC left us third, plus the real reasons GC left. What was the new plan - win promotion playing great passing football while selling our players for millions? This isn’t football manager on the amiga 2. Who around Wael was suitably qualified to set this new direction? 3. After it all went pair shaped under Garner, we bought in someone who had spent a long time at a club where the setup essentially worked. He was someone who could set the football side up. He wasn’t able to do this and clearly couldn’t work with board 4. So what part of this strategy does Joey form? If it was explained on his arrival it may have helped but he was left on his own while the board remained silent. It’s not Joeys fault at all but it feels like our owner was blinded by his celebrity and his agent. And what is his celebrity based on? 5. When Joey talks the talk about what he can do with the players I don’t believe him. I think he believes in himself and our owners clearly believe him. I believe what Tisdale said in his last interview, but the owners didn’t want to hear that. To me it’s the emperors new clothes but I may well be proved wrong. We’ll see And all the while the debt grows and the football side goes nowhere. So for me, while the past behaviours are an issue and I promise I won’t go on about them anymore, there are deeper issues around how our club is run that I see Joeys appointment as a symptom of. I could also have probably tolerated this appointment after the court case but before it just seems daft As I’ve said before, it’s like trying to cure a hangover by going on a bender.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2021 15:15:20 GMT
It is interesting how morals in life and certainly in football have changed over the years. It was the Directors of Bristol Rovers FC who in 1963 reported one of their own players (Esmond Million) to the FA for conspiring with others to lose a match for payment of reportedly £300. Million was found guilty and fined and banned from football for life. I wonder if our current directors would even consider doing the same now, or would they sweep it under the counter? By the comments on this forum, I guess many supporters would just turn a blind eye. How times have changed. Well, they've just employed someone who, according to this report from the BBC was banned from football for placing bets on matches that he was involved in himself. So draw your own conclusions.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Mar 7, 2021 15:29:18 GMT
I could have been more accepting of this appointment under different circumstance. Yes I’m against this appointment but not just down to past reputation. My problems are this: 1. The change of direction when GC left us third, plus the real reasons GC left. What was the new plan - win promotion playing great passing football while selling our players for millions? This isn’t football manager on the amiga 2. Who around Wael was suitably qualified to set this new direction? 3. After it all went pair shaped under Garner, we bought in someone who had spent a long time at a club where the setup essentially worked. He was someone who could set the football side up. He wasn’t able to do this and clearly couldn’t work with board 4. So what part of this strategy does Joey form? If it was explained on his arrival it may have helped but he was left on his own while the board remained silent. It’s not Joeys fault at all but it feels like our owner was blinded by his celebrity and his agent. And what is his celebrity based on? 5. When Joey talks the talk about what he can do with the players I don’t believe him. I think he believes in himself and our owners clearly believe him. I believe what Tisdale said in his last interview, but the owners didn’t want to hear that. To me it’s the emperors new clothes but I may well be proved wrong. We’ll see And all the while the debt grows and the football side goes nowhere. So for me, while the past behaviours are an issue and I promise I won’t go on about them anymore, there are deeper issues around how our club is run that I see Joeys appointment as a symptom of. I could also have probably tolerated this appointment after the court case but before it just seems daft As I’ve said before, it’s like trying to cure a hangover by going on a bender. Homophobic! Haha! Joke for the woke...
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2021 16:01:08 GMT
It is interesting how morals in life and certainly in football have changed over the years. It was the Directors of Bristol Rovers FC who in 1963 reported one of their own players (Esmond Million) to the FA for conspiring with others to lose a match for payment of reportedly £300. Million was found guilty and fined and banned from football for life. I wonder if our current directors would even consider doing the same now, or would they sweep it under the counter? By the comments on this forum, I guess many supporters would just turn a blind eye. How times have changed. Well, they've just employed someone who, according to this report from the BBC was banned from football for placing bets on matches that he was involved in himself. So draw your own conclusions. He’s spectacularly missing the point or playing dumb there, not sure which. Of course it’s not necessarily match fixing, it’s absolutely a conflict of interests. For the integrity of the game players are not supposed to place bets. No excuses for that whatsoever.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Mar 7, 2021 16:19:45 GMT
Following on and replying to Thinners Whiters Dukers.....
"But I shouldn't think that having him messing around on the pitch quoting stuff from some silly book would lead to Rovers being associated in the national press with someone who has multiple instances of violence associated with him in recent years"
That's exactly what has happened! Exactly! We have been on national media, not mentioning a book....?
The point is, at the time you said and did nothing. As did everyone else (myself included).
There's nothing, I mean nothing with an outcry to DJ past offences being brought to the table in this regard. Both then or now. No non attending of matches, no boycott where he's been prevalent. No moral outcry. It's not an identical comparison, but both situations hold moral and violent issues.... I'm still struggling to wonder why one is more wrong than the other?
There is a rehabilitation order act 1974, I'm not amazing with it but it's about orders and spent orders. As for supervising etc, I defer to that order.
I understand the feelings behind the posts of anti JAB, but there's an inconsistency in regards to the policy history of employment/association within the club.
Surely you can see this, even though you may draw your line in a different place?
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Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Mar 7, 2021 16:25:53 GMT
Well, they've just employed someone who, according to this report from the BBC was banned from football for placing bets on matches that he was involved in himself. So draw your own conclusions. He’s spectacularly missing the point or playing dumb there, not sure which. Of course it’s not necessarily match fixing, it’s absolutely a conflict of interests. For the integrity of the game players are not supposed to place bets. No excuses for that whatsoever. Like it or not, gambling on sport is something millions of people in this country enjoy. Of course footballers will bet on it, it's pretty easy to it through a third party , to think otherwise is ridiculous. I am slightly worried that our manager was stupid enough to get caught though .
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2021 16:31:50 GMT
I see @wmgas, o2o2bo2ba, and @thinwhiteduke have proven my point that we can debate this from two opposing sides without telling each other to duck off to Ashton. It's only the real violent criminal fanatics who have come on here in aggression. o2o2bo2ba and I disagree fairly profoundly on this, but he's a gashead who has views on what is right for BRFC, and reading suchlike is a key reason I still bother with the Guzzler. 'Duck off to Asthon' says you don't have an argument.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Mar 7, 2021 17:12:03 GMT
I see @wmgas, o2o2bo2ba, and @thinwhiteduke have proven my point that we can debate this from two opposing sides without telling each other to duck off to Ashton. It's only the real violent criminal fanatics who have come on here in aggression. o2o2bo2ba and I disagree fairly profoundly on this, but he's a gashead who has views on what is right for BRFC, and reading suchlike is a key reason I still bother with the Guzzler. 'Duck off to Asthon' says you don't have an argument. I only didn't say it because I don't know where Asthon is!? Sorry... fascistious. Or facetious. Depending on your ducking view. I'm neutral my duck friend, but it's not fair quacking rightly so one thing, and ignoring the very similar plumage of others without pointing out those inadequacies. Nice post, though... and inviting a duckling/duckling was/egg to enjoy the benefits of BS3 is a stance we've all felt frustrated enough to think, let alone post. Syg is interesting, leave him be.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Mar 7, 2021 17:14:39 GMT
He’s spectacularly missing the point or playing dumb there, not sure which. Of course it’s not necessarily match fixing, it’s absolutely a conflict of interests. For the integrity of the game players are not supposed to place bets. No excuses for that whatsoever. Like it or not, gambling on sport is something millions of people in this country enjoy. Of course footballers will bet on it, it's pretty easy to it through a third party , to think otherwise is ridiculous. I am slightly worried that our manager was stupid enough to get caught though . Exactly!
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Post by swissgas on Mar 7, 2021 17:29:18 GMT
He’s spectacularly missing the point or playing dumb there, not sure which. Of course it’s not necessarily match fixing, it’s absolutely a conflict of interests. For the integrity of the game players are not supposed to place bets. No excuses for that whatsoever. Like it or not, gambling on sport is something millions of people in this country enjoy. Of course footballers will bet on it, it's pretty easy to it through a third party , to think otherwise is ridiculous. I am slightly worried that our manager was stupid enough to get caught though . This is a good point. In some respects JB has a natural ability which most of us yearn for. But he lacks the common sense attributes which we take for granted and which allow us to stay within our limits and out of trouble.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Mar 7, 2021 17:43:11 GMT
Like it or not, gambling on sport is something millions of people in this country enjoy. Of course footballers will bet on it, it's pretty easy to it through a third party , to think otherwise is ridiculous. I am slightly worried that our manager was stupid enough to get caught though . But he lacks the common sense attributes which we take for granted and which allow us to stay within our limits and out of trouble. Which common sense attributes has he lacked since JAB started with us? I understand before. But what after?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2021 17:51:30 GMT
Following on and replying to Thinners Whiters Dukers..... "But I shouldn't think that having him messing around on the pitch quoting stuff from some silly book would lead to Rovers being associated in the national press with someone who has multiple instances of violence associated with him in recent years" That's exactly what has happened! Exactly! We have been on national media, not mentioning a book....? The point is, at the time you said and did nothing. As did everyone else (myself included). There's nothing, I mean nothing with an outcry to DJ past offences being brought to the table in this regard. Both then or now. No non attending of matches, no boycott where he's been prevalent. No moral outcry. It's not an identical comparison, but both situations hold moral and violent issues.... I'm still struggling to wonder why one is more wrong than the other? There is a rehabilitation order act 1974, I'm not amazing with it but it's about orders and spent orders. As for supervising etc, I defer to that order. I understand the feelings behind the posts of anti JAB, but there's an inconsistency in regards to the policy history of employment/association within the club. Surely you can see this, even though you may draw your line in a different place? I wasn't aware of the bloke's history I don't think until a few days ago, but how about providing a list of offences and time line, then I can tell you what I think? I missed any association between Rovers and some crazy guy who 'found God' but I did spend some years totally immersed in work, that involved not being in the UK, so maybe that's why it passed me by? But I'll promise you this, I certainly won't even suggest that him claiming to have some kind of personal relationship with the creator of the universe is either credible or should be used to judge him any differently for previous misdemeanours. If anything it's more likely to be an indicator that the unfortunate guy has mental health issues. Going back to 'spent' convictions, I'm a long way outside of my area of expertise here, but isn't it the case that convictions for the most serious offenses are never spent?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2021 17:59:02 GMT
I see @wmgas , o2o2bo2ba , and @thinwhiteduke have proven my point that we can debate this from two opposing sides without telling each other to duck off to Ashton. It's only the real violent criminal fanatics who have come on here in aggression. o2o2bo2ba and I disagree fairly profoundly on this, but he's a gashead who has views on what is right for BRFC, and reading suchlike is a key reason I still bother with the Guzzler. 'Duck off to Asthon' says you don't have an argument. I'm enjoying the exchange with o2, it's civil, we are probing each other's points, no name calling, not trying to change each other's minds, just 2 people having a chat around a point that we disagree on. It's what forums are for. I'm sure we could continue this in the exact same civil way over a shandy or coffee, and maybe one day we will.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2021 18:03:59 GMT
He’s spectacularly missing the point or playing dumb there, not sure which. Of course it’s not necessarily match fixing, it’s absolutely a conflict of interests. For the integrity of the game players are not supposed to place bets. No excuses for that whatsoever. Like it or not, gambling on sport is something millions of people in this country enjoy. Of course footballers will bet on it, it's pretty easy to it through a third party , to think otherwise is ridiculous. I am slightly worried that our manager was stupid enough to get caught though . Well that’s down to the individual and their respect for the integrity of the game. As I’m fast learning there seems to be very little integrity left in football. Not long until fans start going the whole hog and condoning juicing too just because if players can get away then they should. In the modern era the laws of the game seem to be there to be challenged and broken rather than respected as a baseline for a fair and clean competition.
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Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Mar 7, 2021 18:37:08 GMT
Like it or not, gambling on sport is something millions of people in this country enjoy. Of course footballers will bet on it, it's pretty easy to it through a third party , to think otherwise is ridiculous. I am slightly worried that our manager was stupid enough to get caught though . Well that’s down to the individual and their respect for the integrity of the game. As I’m fast learning there seems to be very little integrity left in football. Not long until fans start going the whole hog and condoning juicing too just because if players can get away then they should. In the modern era the laws of the game seem to be there to be challenged and broken rather than respected as a baseline for a fair and clean competition. I just had to google juicing, and I don't think the answer I got was what you were referring to, so I'm afraid you will have to enlighten me. I'd agree there is a depressing lack of integrity in the game when it comes to- among many other things- trying to con referees though.
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Post by swissgas on Mar 7, 2021 18:48:14 GMT
But he lacks the common sense attributes which we take for granted and which allow us to stay within our limits and out of trouble. Which common sense attributes has he lacked since JAB started with us? I understand before. But what after? He’s only been here two weeks but with such a long track record of showing bad judgement and lack of common sense the odds must be that it’s only a matter of time before something happens. When fans say that maybe this time it will be different and perhaps he has learned his lesson I think, in typical Rovers fashion, they are clutching at straws. If there was something special about Rovers which gave a hint that moving here might make him mend his ways then it would be different. Or if Rovers had taken positive action to try to create an environment which would help him change then there would be cause for hope. But he’s been thrown in at the deep end at a badly run club so, if anything, his frustrations are more likely to boil over here than at other places.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2021 18:51:55 GMT
Well that’s down to the individual and their respect for the integrity of the game. As I’m fast learning there seems to be very little integrity left in football. Not long until fans start going the whole hog and condoning juicing too just because if players can get away then they should. In the modern era the laws of the game seem to be there to be challenged and broken rather than respected as a baseline for a fair and clean competition. I just had to google juicing, and I don't think the answer I got was what you were referring to, so I'm afraid you will have to enlighten me. I'd agree there is a depressing lack of integrity in the game when it comes to- among many other things- trying to con referees though. Tell you what's interesting on this subject is how the size and shape of both codes of rugby players has changed over a short period of time. The likes of Billy Beaumont would get smashed to pieces by the monsters playing today. Disgraceful scenes in Glasgow today as morons selfishly ignore lockdown legislation. I hope the Police come down hard on every single one of them. Just one question though, why were Newco players at their stadium, all kitted up, dancing and waving to people illegally gathered outside?
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Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Mar 7, 2021 19:08:34 GMT
I just had to google juicing, and I don't think the answer I got was what you were referring to, so I'm afraid you will have to enlighten me. I'd agree there is a depressing lack of integrity in the game when it comes to- among many other things- trying to con referees though. Tell you what's interesting on this subject is how the size and shape of both codes of rugby players has changed over a short period of time. The likes of Billy Beaumont would get smashed to pieces by the monsters playing today. Disgraceful scenes in Glasgow today as morons selfishly ignore lockdown legislation. I hope the Police come down hard on every single one of them. Just one question though, why were Newco players at their stadium, all kitted up, dancing and waving to people illegally gathered outside?In a fantastic piece of luck for me, my TV went on the blink yesterday and as the engineer cannot come until tomorrow, I haven't had to endure any news that may have shown such scenes
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