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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2021 19:43:53 GMT
This deserves to be kept on the current page that people may be reading. So what you’re asking us to believe is that Garner, an obscure and inexperienced reserve and youth team coach didn’t deserve to be fired. You’re then saying that Tisdale, a perennial failure as a League 1 manager who managed to win perhaps 2 out of his 12 games in charge didn’t deserve to be fired either? I have to wonder what your definition of failure is I'm guessing that this is the bit that you are referencing? Garner should never have been here. Some diligence would have told us that. Tisdale, we'll find out in time what happened. But Duckman isn't commenting on his competence, it was always his position that any manager should be given at least 1 season. That period of 12 weeks for Tisdale certainly wouldn't have been a selling point for potential candidates, that's all, nothing more, nothing less. There was some political stuff in there as well which I didn't agree with, we can share opinions on that in the politics section if you like? I see you've added something to your original post. Yep, don't care if Rovers do fail under Barton and Wael. It's a disgrace of an appointment that drags our name into the gutter, the sooner it's over the better, then I'll care again, and will be back supporting, at whatever level the club are at when Barton next attacks someone and leaves the club in disgrace.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2021 19:47:18 GMT
This deserves to be kept on the current page that people may be reading. So what you’re asking us to believe is that Garner, an obscure and inexperienced reserve and youth team coach didn’t deserve to be fired. You’re then saying that Tisdale, a perennial failure as a League 1 manager who managed to win perhaps 2 out of his 12 games in charge didn’t deserve to be fired either? I have to wonder what your definition of failure is. I think Waels failure was in appointing those two clowns, both of whom were devoid of any passion or personality, and who spoke in some weird kind of manager speak that left most people baffled. They have been replaced by someone who talks common sense and has both passion and personality. Yet you are happy to ride around on your white horse on some kind of moral crusade, hoping the club continues to fail. Unbelievable. I don’t think he’s saying that at all.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2021 19:50:30 GMT
This deserves to be kept on the current page that people may be reading. So what you’re asking us to believe is that Garner, an obscure and inexperienced reserve and youth team coach didn’t deserve to be fired. You’re then saying that Tisdale, a perennial failure as a League 1 manager who managed to win perhaps 2 out of his 12 games in charge didn’t deserve to be fired either? I have to wonder what your definition of failure is. I think Waels failure was in appointing those two clowns, both of whom were devoid of any passion or personality, and who spoke in some weird kind of manager speak that left most people baffled. They have been replaced by someone who talks common sense and has both passion and personality. Yet you are happy to ride around on your white horse on some kind of moral crusade, hoping the club continues to fail. Unbelievable. You’re assuming that Tisdale was picking the team. Based on the noises around the place I don’t think that is entirely a given. It seems likely to me that Tisdale’s task was hindered by having to work with Widdrington. That being said that doesn’t completely absolve him, he was undoubtedly the wrong choice of manager but it seems the structure in place was not geared towards helping him be successful either.
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Post by lostinspace on Feb 27, 2021 19:51:31 GMT
This deserves to be kept on the current page that people may be reading. So what you’re asking us to believe is that Garner, an obscure and inexperienced reserve and youth team coach didn’t deserve to be fired. You’re then saying that Tisdale, a perennial failure as a League 1 manager who managed to win perhaps 2 out of his 12 games in charge didn’t deserve to be fired either? I have to wonder what your definition of failure is. I think Waels failure was in appointing those two clowns, both of whom were devoid of any passion or personality, and who spoke in some weird kind of manager speak that left most people baffled. They have been replaced by someone who talks common sense and has both passion and personality. Yet you are happy to ride around on your white horse on some kind of moral crusade, hoping the club continues to fail. Unbelievable. i certainly give you the "he's got personality!!!"... unfortunately the wrong sort of
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2021 19:52:25 GMT
So what you’re asking us to believe is that Garner, an obscure and inexperienced reserve and youth team coach didn’t deserve to be fired. You’re then saying that Tisdale, a perennial failure as a League 1 manager who managed to win perhaps 2 out of his 12 games in charge didn’t deserve to be fired either? I have to wonder what your definition of failure is. I think Waels failure was in appointing those two clowns, both of whom were devoid of any passion or personality, and who spoke in some weird kind of manager speak that left most people baffled. They have been replaced by someone who talks common sense and has both passion and personality. Yet you are happy to ride around on your white horse on some kind of moral crusade, hoping the club continues to fail. Unbelievable. I don’t think he’s saying that at all. Shhh, promise not to tell, but towngas knows that's not even close was said by either Shoveler or myself.
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towngas
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Post by towngas on Feb 27, 2021 20:17:17 GMT
So what you’re asking us to believe is that Garner, an obscure and inexperienced reserve and youth team coach didn’t deserve to be fired. You’re then saying that Tisdale, a perennial failure as a League 1 manager who managed to win perhaps 2 out of his 12 games in charge didn’t deserve to be fired either? I have to wonder what your definition of failure is I'm guessing that this is the bit that you are referencing? Garner should never have been here. Some diligence would have told us that. Tisdale, we'll find out in time what happened. But Duckman isn't commenting on his competence, it was always his position that any manager should be given at least 1 season. That period of 12 weeks for Tisdale certainly wouldn't have been a selling point for potential candidates, that's all, nothing more, nothing less. There was some political stuff in there as well which I didn't agree with, we can share opinions on that in the politics section if you like? I see you've added something to your original post. Yep, don't care if Rovers do fail under Barton and Wael. It's a disgrace of an appointment that drags our name into the gutter, the sooner it's over the better, then I'll care again, and will be back supporting, at whatever level the club are at when Barton next attacks someone and leaves the club in disgrace. No, I was referencing the statement that Rovers wouldn’t be a very attractive proposition for any prospective manager and had a bad reputation.As for DC returning, come off it. The only possible worse scenario would have been for Holloway the Professional Bristolian to rock up again. As for Barton being our manager, my hope is that he will have matured and will not act in that way again. People can change, wouldn’t you be happy for him and the club if he has?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2021 20:24:19 GMT
I'm guessing that this is the bit that you are referencing? Garner should never have been here. Some diligence would have told us that. Tisdale, we'll find out in time what happened. But Duckman isn't commenting on his competence, it was always his position that any manager should be given at least 1 season. That period of 12 weeks for Tisdale certainly wouldn't have been a selling point for potential candidates, that's all, nothing more, nothing less. There was some political stuff in there as well which I didn't agree with, we can share opinions on that in the politics section if you like? I see you've added something to your original post. Yep, don't care if Rovers do fail under Barton and Wael. It's a disgrace of an appointment that drags our name into the gutter, the sooner it's over the better, then I'll care again, and will be back supporting, at whatever level the club are at when Barton next attacks someone and leaves the club in disgrace. No, I was referencing the statement that Rovers wouldn’t be a very attractive proposition for any prospective manager and had a bad reputation.As for DC returning, come off it. The only possible worse scenario would have been for Holloway the Professional Bristolian to rock up again. As for Barton being our manager, my hope is that he will have matured and will not act in that way again. People can change, wouldn’t you be happy for him and the club if he has? How many second chances is he on now? History suggests he’s most likely only getting warmed up. Still, at least we’ve got enough coaches to hold his coat for him next time.
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towngas
Joined: February 2021
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Post by towngas on Feb 27, 2021 20:30:41 GMT
No, I was referencing the statement that Rovers wouldn’t be a very attractive proposition for any prospective manager and had a bad reputation.As for DC returning, come off it. The only possible worse scenario would have been for Holloway the Professional Bristolian to rock up again. As for Barton being our manager, my hope is that he will have matured and will not act in that way again. People can change, wouldn’t you be happy for him and the club if he has? How many second chances is he on now? History suggests he’s most likely only getting warmed up. Still, at least we’ve got enough coaches to hold his coat for him next time. I’m prepared to give him a chance. You don’t have to like the bloke, but if he does a good job for us and keeps his nose clean, I could live with that. If he is indeed an unreformed character and offends again I will hold my hands up and admit I was wrong. In the meantime I’m prepared to wait and see and not condemn the man from the off. I don’t think that’s unreasonable.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2021 20:45:34 GMT
How many second chances is he on now? History suggests he’s most likely only getting warmed up. Still, at least we’ve got enough coaches to hold his coat for him next time. I’m prepared to give him a chance. You don’t have to like the bloke, but if he does a good job for us and keeps his nose clean, I could live with that. If he is indeed an unreformed character and offends again I will hold my hands up and admit I was wrong. In the meantime I’m prepared to wait and see and not condemn the man from the off. I don’t think that’s unreasonable. I don’t think it’s unreasonable and totally respect that point of view to be fair Towngas
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2021 20:50:34 GMT
I'm guessing that this is the bit that you are referencing? Garner should never have been here. Some diligence would have told us that. Tisdale, we'll find out in time what happened. But Duckman isn't commenting on his competence, it was always his position that any manager should be given at least 1 season. That period of 12 weeks for Tisdale certainly wouldn't have been a selling point for potential candidates, that's all, nothing more, nothing less. There was some political stuff in there as well which I didn't agree with, we can share opinions on that in the politics section if you like? I see you've added something to your original post. Yep, don't care if Rovers do fail under Barton and Wael. It's a disgrace of an appointment that drags our name into the gutter, the sooner it's over the better, then I'll care again, and will be back supporting, at whatever level the club are at when Barton next attacks someone and leaves the club in disgrace. No, I was referencing the statement that Rovers wouldn’t be a very attractive proposition for any prospective manager and had a bad reputation.As for DC returning, come off it. The only possible worse scenario would have been for Holloway the Professional Bristolian to rock up again. As for Barton being our manager, my hope is that he will have matured and will not act in that way again. People can change, wouldn’t you be happy for him and the club if he has? As I've already said in relation to both points; I didn't agree with every point Shoveler made, but the main thrust of the post was sufficiently compelling for me to feel that it would have been a shame had it dropped down the message board. I agree with you with reference to DC, he produced a period of magic with a motley group of players, but has yet to demonstrate that he can reproduce that, so at this stage there's nothing to even suggest that his return would be a step forward. I've already said, I wish Joey nothing but good health and happiness in his personal life, that extends to his nearest and dearest, but with his previous conduct, having him associated with Rovers tarnishes our reputation. There's an upcoming court case, regardless of the outcome the media won't introduce him as ex-professional footballer Mr Barton, it'll be Bristol Rovers' Manager Joey Barton, they'll then say what he's accused of, and mud sticks unfortunately. Yes, I do hope that he's learned and matured, but have no evidence that this is the case and don't want my club to pay an even greater price in terms of reputational harm when he loses his temper and assaults his next victim.
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warehamgas
Predictions League
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Post by warehamgas on Feb 27, 2021 22:06:29 GMT
I started from a place of loving the sound of Al Qadi caution, politeness, dignity, moderation, and communication. When the Al Qadis took over the club, after DC's Rovers had been promoted back into the football league and were in the process of building a campaign for promotion to our home division; that season ended with many of us feeling the most positive and excited we had been towards Bristol Rovers for a long time, ever in the case of younger or newer supporters. Attendances over 10,000 have always mattered to me too, and the Al Qadis, later Wael Al Qadi, did make some minor improvements to communications, commerce, and the ground's interior. DC resigning from Walsall during our latest twice-yearly management recruitment cycle, worsened by Harry Degg's fake news about his return to Bristol, gave me hope that we might be spared the social media celebrity and criminal psychopathy of Joey Barton. I don't know that DC returning would have worked out very well, but I don't think the club's treatment of the last manager (and possibly his predecessors too) will have given them a queue of fine managers holding application forms. If I were a promising league manager, Rovers wouldn't be a club I'd trust as an employer. It would, however, have brought us together somewhat, rather than tearing us apart. Watching Rovers trying to bore their way out of the football league under Ray Graydon never made me feel like this. Nick Higgs turning Rovers into a laughing stock twice-yearly sacking managers until relegation until floating an appeal against this relegation while litigating against a supermarket giant who no longer wanted to buy the Memorial Ground... still I never turned my back. Only Al Qadi showing that the cautious, polite, dignified, and moderate impression I had admired was nothing more than a mask, in fact being a vainglorious stargazer so blinded by the cult of celebrity he considers a boastful convicted thug awaiting further trial for knocking a tooth from another football manager an acceptable leader of Bristol Rovers Football Club, only this has disgusted me enough to give it all up for now. The Emporer was incorrect to say that Barton's support of Corbyn was a relevant complaint against his appointment. But he did stumble on a point. Barton has something in common with Corbyn, Trump, Morgan, Farage, Sarkar, and so many other social media celebrities. They are famous, not for being any good, not for being decent or trustworthy, not for competence, not for wisdom, but only for being 'big', and for a vacuous vitriol they have marketed effectively to solicit the clicks and internet traffic of a credulous audience who read neither books nor even newspapers, but only their own echo-chambers of online news feeds. I certainly don't think the United States should ever elect a Trump figure again, nor should the Labour party ever elect a Corbyn figure again. Bristol Rovers should never appoint a Barton figure again, and Al Qadi should hang his head in shame for having done so. I hope their time is passing. Decency and dignity can rise again. It's such a shame I'm writing this on a Bristol Rovers forum. Many of you think I'm a idiot for taking this position, according to your insults above. Good riddance, you may say. But the feeling is not mutual. I don't want rid of you at all. I cannot support Joey Barton's Rovers, but I don't criticise you for doing so. I look forward to the day we have a board and most importantly a manager, whether successful or failing, whom we can all support without holding our nose. I don't want to see Rovers relegated, but I do want to see Joey Barton's Rovers lose as many games as possible so that he goes. If that means the fall of Al Qadi too, then so be it. If Rovers win today, then I hope active supporters enjoy it, but if Rovers losing means we can all support Rovers together without compromising any of our fundamental principles, then that's fine by me. So come on the Shrews, and come on the October takeover. It’s a point of view I can agree with regarding JB. But I diverge from wanting Shrews to win today or even see “Joey Barton’s Rovers” lose as many games as possible. We are not his Bristol Rovers. I’ve always wanted BRFC to win every game and that won’t change just because they have a manager I don’t want. There’s been plenty of those! I want us to avoid relegation and that will mean several wins in the months ahead. And I’m afraid Shoveller that if we lose it won’t result in everyone supporting Rovers together. As with any other club, we are as divided a fanbase as any and I’m certain that relegation would not help re-unite it. UTG!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2021 22:12:19 GMT
How many second chances is he on now? History suggests he’s most likely only getting warmed up. Still, at least we’ve got enough coaches to hold his coat for him next time. I’m prepared to give him a chance. You don’t have to like the bloke, but if he does a good job for us and keeps his nose clean, I could live with that. If he is indeed an unreformed character and offends again I will hold my hands up and admit I was wrong. In the meantime I’m prepared to wait and see and not condemn the man from the off. I don’t think that’s unreasonable. Ordinarily I would agree, but for me personally Barton’s got so much previous it’s a struggle to look past it- I think the open court case doesn’t help either, especially hearing the comments from the head of the EFL, he makes it sound like Barton is in serious trouble. When you add it all up I can’t help but think the bloke should be elsewhere trying to reform himself, possibly away from football.
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Post by swissgas on Feb 27, 2021 22:18:33 GMT
I agree with the highlighted bit Knowing that figures bore people I don't want to dwell on them but in 2014 Rovers were losing 566 000 pa, the club owners were owed 4.1 million and the bank 1 million. Today Rovers are probably losing about 4 million pa and the Dwane Sports loan must be back up to around the 10 million mark. If you want to believe that our current football team, a dilapidated stadium and a modest half finished training ground are signs of success then that's fine. But the figures don't lie and in financial terms Wael, Martyn and Tom have done a poor job and we are much worse off than we were in 2014. Many fans still believe Wael is on the right track and will continue finding the cash to fund Rovers indefinitely. I remember the Bristol Post (without giving any specific detail) once came up with a figure of 400 million for the Al-Qadi family's wealth and on one occasion Gashead 81 suggested the amount of 100 million for what he thought Wael might be worth. So if that is the case, and Wael is prepared to commit all his assets to Rovers, we can look forward to another 25 years of existence at the present rate. But my question is this. If Wael is worth that much why has he not acquired some land and built Rovers a stadium in the past five years. Why is he allowing the cash to drain out year after year while the fans have to endure third world facilities and a very poor standard of football ? It seems a very strange thing to do if you have such resources at your disposal ? Fair enough, Swiss....I bow down to your better knowledge. Is there such a thing as "football inflation" - and I don't mean Stefan Payne or Gary Kenneth - what I mean is debt, finances, transfer fees, wages etc has gotten disproportionately high in last 10 years and increased to the size of implosion for some clubs? As for the strange thing to do if you have funds, I would agree. Maybe Wael is estranged geographically and being poorly advised? I have no idea I'm trying to throw it out there.. I thought investment bankers were good at spending other people's money, not their own? Yes there certainly is inflation and Rovers turnover has increased from 4 million to 6 million since 2014 but larger EFL payments must make up a fair bit of that. The worry is the level of losses compared to revenue because we used to earn 4 million and spend 4 to 5 million but now (in 2019) we earn 6 million and spend 10 million ! The level of losses could be justified if we could see the money was being invested and there was a plan rather than it being spent recklessly with nothing to show for it. When you look at clubs like Peterborough or Oxford you see that they too have made 4 million plus losses at times but then they sell players and the next year the loss is eliminated or greatly reduced. Some Gasheads would immediately respond and say “that’s Wael’s plan as well” but, as a I tried to explain in a post a few weeks ago, I don’t think there was any properly thought through strategy behind Ben Garners appointment and now we have the Joey Barton appointment most fans can see the so called “the vision” was a myth. There is a strong body of opinion which believes the reason we are failing is because although Wael is a successful investment banker he is being poorly advised. And it’s very difficult to go against that opinion without being accused of churlishness or even spitefulness. All I can say is that I’ve met a few investment bankers and they all express themselves in a different way to the way Wael does in his interviews and statements. When it comes to the board of directors I really don’t think Tom, Tommy or Karim have the experience to give him sound advice even if he would take it. And although Martyn has long experience in West Country football I feel Wael is much more likely to follow his flights of fancy than accept any steadying influence Martyn might be able to give. When discussing the business side of things at Rovers I agree it makes far more sense to “throw things out there” as you say. Much better than taking the entrenched position that Wael is doing a good job and Martyn, Tom, Tommy and Karim are all doing good jobs, without being willing to back it up.
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Post by swissgas on Feb 27, 2021 22:31:39 GMT
Knowing that figures bore people I don't want to dwell on them but ........(1)But my question is this. (2) If Wael is worth that much why has he not acquired some land and built Rovers a stadium in the past five years. Why is he allowing the cash to drain out year after year while the fans have to endure third world facilities and a very poor standard of football ? It seems a very strange thing to do if you have such resources at your disposal ? Swiss I must admit I did smile when I saw what you wrote at (1). I am sure people understand how you feel about the finances by now and your points are well made. But I feel repetition will nullify your points. We should see next month how it is going with the release of the next set of accounts. I am sure people will then appreciate your analysis. With regard to (2) how do we know he hasn't tried and been frustrated. I don't know either but we do know he has been approached by at least one syndicate and been involved on at least one site. We also know that the amount of available appropriate green space is limited. Perhaps what we need is for WAQ to be available, people seem to think he spends all his time in Jordan (I don't know for definite) and perhaps for interested people to come up with some options to get to other boards members if that's the case. Regards I take your point about constant repetition nullifying an argument Cheshire. My understanding is that the people behind the Fruit Market Stadium plan have not had any contact with the landowners since last Spring. I agree that we don’t know for sure what is going on but after five years experience of Dwane Sports ownership, to me at least, the most likely scenario is that Wael is waiting and hoping that something acceptable to him will turn up before his funds are exhausted.
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warehamgas
Predictions League
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Post by warehamgas on Feb 27, 2021 22:39:15 GMT
Joey is a nice guy and thats about it Yes he is! And he’s also keen to be involved in the community. Mmm, let’s hope in the right way. No somersaults and no real attempts to say he fitted the vision or the dna of the club. Now, blow that stuff, the situation we are in has obviously concentrated the mind of the board on results! Pretty sure this will not end well! UTG!
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Feb 28, 2021 1:16:11 GMT
Barton will get rid of himself. Summer sun brings relegation and most likely custodial sentence for Barton, held over or otherwise. One or other gets rid of him. I reckon he will be gone much earlier than that actually, he will do something stupid at some point, of course he will.
But Barton is not the problem. The Barton fan club accusing us of being on high horses and moralising just don’t get it at all. The penny is slow to drop for them. Barton polluting the good name of our club is merely a shaft of light or alarm bell to what the problem really is here. Wael and his failed crew of CEO’s and dofs all need to go before this club can step up once again.
This thread isn’t about moralising. It’s about finally waking up and smelling THE coffee.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2021 2:20:18 GMT
Barton will get rid of himself. Summer sun brings relegation and most likely custodial sentence for Barton, held over or otherwise. One or other gets rid of him. I reckon he will be gone much earlier than that actually, he will do something stupid at some point, of course he will. But Barton is not the problem. The Barton fan club accusing us of being on high horses and moralising just don’t get it at all. The penny is slow to drop for them. Barton polluting the good name of our club is merely a shaft of light or alarm bell to what the problem really is here. Wael and his failed crew of CEO’s and dofs all need to go before this club can step up once again. This thread isn’t about moralising. It’s about finally waking up and smelling THE coffee. I’ve said it elsewhere I think but for me hiring Barton is like curing a hangover by getting wasted. The club is on the run from introspection, but it will be forced into it one day and it won’t be pretty.
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Post by The Concept on Feb 28, 2021 8:32:37 GMT
Almost certainly under the legal age o2o2bo2ba. Yes, possibly a young madam. A shame, as I was hoping I'd made a new friend in Ally. Is it too much to hope she could be early-middle-aged, elegant, and... also a duck? Certainly being called names by Ally is a lot more fun than being called names by Mike/Jay/Harry/Degg. Hold on,someone else called a poster a 5 star ***** on another thread,not saying that he was wrong but he didnt get pulled up for it but someone then gets warned for saying something much less offensive to shoveler xiv (or xv or xx ). Is the duck some kind of protected species ? It was actually this thread, and it was Darlo calling the Emperor a *****. I asked him not to. I hope I haven't now misgendered Dave/Darlo/gasgirl too. Life can be confusing, sometimes. I'll repeat it again though, as it's true. Here we ought to disagree about Joey Barton without falling out or name calling. Mike/Jay/Harry/ Degg/John McClean/Herbert Blake
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Post by The Concept on Feb 28, 2021 9:01:01 GMT
... It's such a shame I'm writing this on a Bristol Rovers forum. Many of you think I'm a idiot for taking this position, according to your insults above. Good riddance, you may say. But the feeling is not mutual. I don't want rid of you at all. I cannot support Joey Barton's Rovers, but I don't criticise you for doing so. I look forward to the day we have a board and most importantly a manager, whether successful or failing, whom we can all support without holding our nose... This is the sad part, the fact that many of the Barton supporters can't accept others may have a different opinion and hurl insults at them. Before the appointment I was reading things like: "People should be ashamed of themselves if they email the club saying they don't want Barton." ... Hmm! The shame! < scratches head >. Then, as you say, the insults such as good riddance, as if you are no longer welcome as a supporter just because you don't agree with the appointment of the manager. ... I don't want Barton, but it doesn't stop me supporting the team. Then, after the victory last night, the goading with comments such as: "Where are all the snowflakes now then?" ... So, just because you don't agree with appointing a manger, because of his violent actions and personal attributes to date, it makes you a snowflake. Okay then. BTW 'snowflake' has to be the s***tiest new putdown, following on from the equally pathetic 'grow a pair' and 'man up'.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2021 9:48:48 GMT
Mike/Jay/Harry/ Degg/John McClean/Herbert Blake Come on, my dear Concie. I have had Degg down as one of Jay's pseudonyms for so long now, and believe me Jay calls me worse, you can't let the truth get in the way of repetition. I miss the days when Degg was the worst of the hot-heads we worried about. I hope supporter attendances return soon, and we can get back to having nothing more to worry about than Degg's obsession with away following numbers. Once the social media celebrity violent criminal's sacked, of course.
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